Not Cambridge and Jews - Cambridge Unitarians taking Christian content out of Silent Night, and Jewish men writing Christmas songs.
For an analogy, picture Cambridge Unitarians and Jewish popular songwriters putting on blackface and singing negro spirituals. Maybe they could sing Mammy too. How would that cultural misappropriation go over?
So may I take it that you never read fiction, stuff by people who haven't personally experienced what they're writing about? Is it offensive to you when a man writes about a female protagonist?
OK, it is a bit weird that that so many Christmas songs (from "White Christmas" to "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer") were written by Jews. But offensive? They're not songs about Christ being risen or the blood of Christ or the virgin birth or something, they're songs about the non-religious parts of the holiday ("White Christmas" is about nostalgia for days gone by; Rudolph is about, well, a glowing-nosed ungulant for some fat guy living at the North Pole, "Santa Baby" is about the fat guy).
As for "Mammy," well, you do know Al Jolson, who sang that in blackface in the first talkie, was the son of a rabbi. Nobody's perfect, times were different back then, etc.
...unitarians are technically a christian faith, although generally regarded as a form of non-trinitarian christianity (believing in a single unified god rather than a holy trinity). some congregations are more christian than others, and many non-christians choose to worship this faith.
but to mix them in with folks of jewish faith, as people who have co-opted and then destroyed christmas is just silly. it's their holiday, too. whereas with the jews, it's not. they may just choose to take out references to the trinity, or to Jesus, who they tend to view as an excellent scholar and teacher, but may or may not be divine.
disclaimer: i consider myself to be both unitarian and jewish (and quaker), although certainly not a religious scholar in either, so take this all with a grain of salt ;)
So may I take it that you never read fiction, stuff by people who haven't personally experienced what they're writing about? Is it offensive to you when a man writes about a female protagonist?
C'mon, Adam, that's a straw man. There is a difference - as you know - between writing fiction and writing religious texts. Unless, of course, you call all religion fiction, which I doubt was your point here.
White Christmas is about nostalgia for days gone by;
That's all? White Christmas? You have a point, but a weak one. It's hard to talk about Christmas songs without getting to, you know, Christmas. I think the cultural appropriation angle is perfectly reasonable, if rather fussy.
Keillor's primary interest, in any case, was in the Unitarians, not Jewish songwriters. And to the other poster, no, Unitarianism is not a Christian denomination. One hundred and fifty years ago, Unitarianism was called a featherbed for falling Christians. The coiner of that phrase wouldn't recognize today's Unitarianism for how far it's gone from then. Unitarians boast of being a-doctrinal; a-Christian being a given.
Keillor's point - do what you want, just don't appropriate and twist our Christian practices to your own purposes - is interesting in a couple of ways. First, it's interesting for the reaction it gets from a secular culture that can't imagine anyone actually taking their religion seriously. Second, said secular culture has no problem ridiculing Christian believers at every opportunity, yet seeks victimhood when the tables are turned.
Keillor came off as a little cranky. For anything more than that, it depends on whose ox is being gored. And this from a near life-long athiest. I have no dog in this fight.
For an analogy, picture Cambridge Unitarians and Jewish popular songwriters putting on blackface and singing negro spirituals
I imagine it'd go over something like Ragtime, story by E. L. Doctorow (Jewish), lyrics by Lynn Ahrens (Jewish). Which is to say: Pretty well, until all the money gets stolen by Garth Drabinsky and Myron Gottleib (also Jewish).
Or, my favorite example, Life is Beautiful: A goyishe Italian guy - who was too young to have ever witnessed the atrocities of the Holocaust first-hand - made a slapstick comedy about a Jew living in a concentration camp with his five-year-old son. The main character (played by that same goyishe Italian guy) dies at the hands of the Nazis after a life of daily torment.
This comedy won 55 awards, had instant worldwide acclaim, and was the late Pope's favorite movie.
By thathottness (not verified) - 12/19/09 - 12:51 pm
I just want to clarify that I don't think GK has any personal malice toward Jews or Unitarians. I think he chose his words poorly. He tied them up with the tinkering and commercialism that he genuinely doesn't like, and it fell apart in an unfortunate way.
And he also had a responsibility to note that it was his idea to sing Silent Night, since that part is based on an actual event.
The piece was supposed to be humorous, but the bare wording on paper (without GK's verbal delivery) made it seem harsher than it was intended to be.
On the show imediately after the brouhaha, he started with Silent Night -- and later had a skit in which his perennial cowboys encountered some Unitarian carol singers.
Comments
Garrison Keel Over redux
By East Cambridge (not verified) - 12/19/09 - 11:13 am
Talk about jumping the shark....
Isn't this guy's schtick about as fresh and entertaining as a Bob Hope Christmas
with the Troops special?
seriously
By rsybuchanan - 12/19/09 - 12:11 pm
He's the NPR equivalent of Garfield comics.
Not Cambridge and Jews -
By NotWhitey - 12/19/09 - 11:20 am
Not Cambridge and Jews - Cambridge Unitarians taking Christian content out of Silent Night, and Jewish men writing Christmas songs.
For an analogy, picture Cambridge Unitarians and Jewish popular songwriters putting on blackface and singing negro spirituals. Maybe they could sing Mammy too. How would that cultural misappropriation go over?
Jews and Christmas songs
By adamg - 12/19/09 - 12:18 pm
So may I take it that you never read fiction, stuff by people who haven't personally experienced what they're writing about? Is it offensive to you when a man writes about a female protagonist?
OK, it is a bit weird that that so many Christmas songs (from "White Christmas" to "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer") were written by Jews. But offensive? They're not songs about Christ being risen or the blood of Christ or the virgin birth or something, they're songs about the non-religious parts of the holiday ("White Christmas" is about nostalgia for days gone by; Rudolph is about, well, a glowing-nosed ungulant for some fat guy living at the North Pole, "Santa Baby" is about the fat guy).
As for "Mammy," well, you do know Al Jolson, who sang that in blackface in the first talkie, was the son of a rabbi. Nobody's perfect, times were different back then, etc.
and to be fair...
By bandit - 12/19/09 - 2:30 pm
...unitarians are technically a christian faith, although generally regarded as a form of non-trinitarian christianity (believing in a single unified god rather than a holy trinity). some congregations are more christian than others, and many non-christians choose to worship this faith.
but to mix them in with folks of jewish faith, as people who have co-opted and then destroyed christmas is just silly. it's their holiday, too. whereas with the jews, it's not. they may just choose to take out references to the trinity, or to Jesus, who they tend to view as an excellent scholar and teacher, but may or may not be divine.
disclaimer: i consider myself to be both unitarian and jewish (and quaker), although certainly not a religious scholar in either, so take this all with a grain of salt ;)
So may I take it that you
By NotWhitey - 12/19/09 - 2:58 pm
C'mon, Adam, that's a straw man. There is a difference - as you know - between writing fiction and writing religious texts. Unless, of course, you call all religion fiction, which I doubt was your point here.
That's all? White Christmas? You have a point, but a weak one. It's hard to talk about Christmas songs without getting to, you know, Christmas. I think the cultural appropriation angle is perfectly reasonable, if rather fussy.
Keillor's primary interest, in any case, was in the Unitarians, not Jewish songwriters. And to the other poster, no, Unitarianism is not a Christian denomination. One hundred and fifty years ago, Unitarianism was called a featherbed for falling Christians. The coiner of that phrase wouldn't recognize today's Unitarianism for how far it's gone from then. Unitarians boast of being a-doctrinal; a-Christian being a given.
Keillor's point - do what you want, just don't appropriate and twist our Christian practices to your own purposes - is interesting in a couple of ways. First, it's interesting for the reaction it gets from a secular culture that can't imagine anyone actually taking their religion seriously. Second, said secular culture has no problem ridiculing Christian believers at every opportunity, yet seeks victimhood when the tables are turned.
Keillor came off as a little cranky. For anything more than that, it depends on whose ox is being gored. And this from a near life-long athiest. I have no dog in this fight.
Jews writing spirituals
By Jay Levitt - 12/19/09 - 6:02 pm
I imagine it'd go over something like Ragtime, story by E. L. Doctorow (Jewish), lyrics by Lynn Ahrens (Jewish). Which is to say: Pretty well, until all the money gets stolen by Garth Drabinsky and Myron Gottleib (also Jewish).
Or, my favorite example, Life is Beautiful: A goyishe Italian guy - who was too young to have ever witnessed the atrocities of the Holocaust first-hand - made a slapstick comedy about a Jew living in a concentration camp with his five-year-old son. The main character (played by that same goyishe Italian guy) dies at the hands of the Nazis after a life of daily torment.
This comedy won 55 awards, had instant worldwide acclaim, and was the late Pope's favorite movie.
I just want to clarify that I
By thathottness (not verified) - 12/19/09 - 12:51 pm
I just want to clarify that I don't think GK has any personal malice toward Jews or Unitarians. I think he chose his words poorly. He tied them up with the tinkering and commercialism that he genuinely doesn't like, and it fell apart in an unfortunate way.
And he also had a responsibility to note that it was his idea to sing Silent Night, since that part is based on an actual event.
It might shed some light on the matter....
By Michael Kerpan - 12/22/09 - 11:53 am
... to note that GK's wife is a Unitarian.
The piece was supposed to be humorous, but the bare wording on paper (without GK's verbal delivery) made it seem harsher than it was intended to be.
On the show imediately after the brouhaha, he started with Silent Night -- and later had a skit in which his perennial cowboys encountered some Unitarian carol singers.
White Christmas
By anon (not verified) - 12/22/09 - 11:32 am
Hey, Garrison, it's a free country. If you don't like "White Christmas" stay out of the malls.