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One Red Line worker fired, one suspended for driving off with woman's arm, purse stuck in door
By adamg on Fri, 12/04/2009 - 5:24pm
It's the MBTA anti-hero workers! The day before a hero Orange Line driver managed to keep her train from slicing up a drunk on the tracks, two Red Line workers did nothing as their train started out of South Station with a woman still attached on the platform. The Globe reports the attendant on the train has been fired; the operator suspended. Channel 25 posts the video:
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Comments
Isnt that more of a
Isnt that more of a mechanical issue than an attendant issue? Shouldnt the door have registered that it wasn't completely closed?
But remember
Red Line doors don't recycle.
Actually, the project to
Actually, the project to install pressure-sensitive edges and updated door motors on the older Red Line cars was completed a few years ago. That’s why those "doors do not recycle" stickers disappeared, they were removed car by car as each had the doors retrofitted.
However, it is still possible for small objects like purses, umbrellas, parts of backpacks, etc. to get caught, as they do not always create enough pressure on their own to force the doors to recycle. The video looks to me like it is her small bag, not her arm, that is caught in the door. But as others noted, she did not let go. It’s still the responsibility of the door attendant to look out for the actions of people who might not be using the best judgment, so the termination was probably still justified. My guess is the operator of the train was suspended for some procedural issue (like maybe they didn’t report the incident properly), since it is not the responsibility of an operator of a train with a two-person crew to also monitor the doors.
Mechanical failures mean humans have to intervene.
It is the attendant's job to ensure that all doors are secure, and that no one or nothing is stuck in them, as the train pulls out of the station. They should be looking out at the cars they're working the entire time and they should close the doors only after they see that it's all clear.
Now this is where it gets tricky. According to the Globe, the incident took place at South Station around 12:30 am, so that was the last Braintree train of the night. It looks as if the woman is trying to dash into the train as the doors are closing. The way she approaches the door and then tries to sidle in is consistent with people trying to hop in at the last minute, expecting the doors to automatically spring back open -- or worse yet, trying to push the doors back open themselves.
Regardless of whether or not the woman was trying a reckless dash, if something does happen and someone gets stuck, it is the attendant's duty and the driver's to immediately halt the train.
Now trains, they got a lotta mass and they can't stop on a dime, but I've seen people get caught in doors before and alert employees were able to stop the train sooner without anybody having to tuck and roll before they fly off the platform.
Mechanically speaking, doors can register being closed even with a thin bit of fabric between them. Ever see a backpack strap get caught? Additionally, Red Line doors don't always automatically pop back open when they encounter resistance (remember "THESE DOORS DO NOT RECYCLE"?) It could very well be this unlucky (or foolish, you pick) woman got caught in a non-recycling door. Regardless, I'm glad she didn't suffer anything more serious. That could've been a whole lot worse.
(What I find real interesting are the red rectangles and squares popping up over the security footage. Wonder what things the security system is recognizing, even if it's sometimes picking up false positives.)
If you ever miss the last Braintree train of the night
then wait for the Ashmont train, which always arrives later, and get off at Fields Corner. They run a special 1 am #210 bus to Quincy and Braintree for exactly this purpose.
Masshole Meets Lazy
1.Masshole throws bag between doors.
2.Masshole tries to pry doors apart and wedge themselves into train
3.Masshole hangs on to bag as train starts to move
4.Masshole continues to hang on as train accelerates, only letting go at the prospect of meeting a brick wall
5.Train stops, backs up, operators return bag to Masshole
I don't see how this was the fault of the driver (or motorman, or whatever the hell they call the lever-jockey.) It's not his/her job.
So yes, the operator should have looked to make sure the doors were all clear (he/she probably looked, hit button as they looked the other way, and then sat down inside), but the "victim" here got what was coming to them- maybe this will be a lesson to all the idiots who put their arms, bags, etc into the path of the doors to force the train to wait for them.
Furthermore, all the trains have safety interlocks, and the train never should have been allowed to move in the first place if one of the doors hadn't closed completely. So who got fired or suspended at the maintenance shop?
If you're ever on the red or orange lines and as the train comes into the station you hear "PHHHSSSST!", the train comes to a really sharp stop, and the doors pop open immediately after the train completely stops? That's the train "attendant" being lazy and using the safety interlocks. The door-open command triggers the emergency brake dump you hear, and the doors are kept from opening until the train has stopped. I guess it's good to know that the interlocks work, but they should not be relied on daily.
umm bro...
you said you don't know how this could be the operators fault but you said it yourself why in fact it was the drivers fault
I believe right there indicates why it was the operators fault.
driver vs. operator
And attendant vs. operator blah blah. I said it's not the driver's fault; they're not in charge of the doors. There's no reason they should have been disciplined.
Stupid bitch
You gambled and you lost. She was never in danger, as she clearly was able to let go of the purse. Nobody should be fired for this.
That having been said
What do you expect from an organization that hires its employees based on a fucking LOTTERY? That's right, they pick employees at random. No interviews, no background checks, no personality tests. They pick from a pool of the most otherwise unemployable people in Massachusetts, of which there are hundreds, maybe thousands.
Your information is
Your information is incorrect. The MBTA lottery picks people randomly... who then come in for an interview and background checks and personality tests and medical tests. If they don't get enough people suitable to hire from the first bunch of numbers they call in, they call in a bunch more randomly picked numbers. When they next need more drivers, they call in more numbers. Once they run out of numbers, they have another lottery. They have the lottery so that anyone has an equal chance to come in for an interview, in response to the years of people complaining that the only people who got chances at a job as T drivers were the buddies of other T drivers and such. The lottery is even run by an independent company, so no one at the T handles the entries.
That's still a shit system
Hire the best people NOW. If you have to interview everybody, do it. I don't care how long it takes, get the best people in there.
As for the complaints about the buddies of drivers getting hired, no shit. That's how the working world works. It's who you know.
Before you condemn the passenger...
Brett,
There you go again.....condemn the person before you actually look at what happened. If you watch the video, the person tries to get on the train just a few seconds after the last person exited that door. Seems quite reasonable to me. I know that I wait for everyone to get off before I get on the train. It seems to me that she tried to get on just as the door was closing so the attendant did not seem to want to keep the door open so that she and her companion could get on. I have to wonder if the attendant was even looking for passengers that might be trying to get on the train. And both the driver and the attendant should have noticed that someone was standing on the yellow strip, close to the train, before the train started to move.
The T should have fired both the attendant and the driver of the subway train. .
On Halloween night, I was
On Halloween night, I was trying to get on a single car train (because of course, thats what the MBTA likes to run during peak hours), and the driver kept trying to close the doors, even though I and 4 others were waiting to get on. Why were we waiting? Because people were still getting off! Luckily, green line doors are extremely easy to hold open. This happened for the next 4 stops, the train was so full 3 or 4 people had to get off so others could disembark, and then get back on.
What's the hurry, I wonder?
I had an impatient Green Line driver once. Like you, the closing-door chime would start as people were still getting off. This happened at every stop on the way to Lechmere. I noted the time and train number and reported it.
Lower a shoulder and push
Lower a shoulder and push through, for chrissakes! It's a lot easier getting by other passengers than getting through closed doors. You wouldn't last a day on the MTA (the real one, not Charlie's).
The Masshole Way
Well, yeah. That's one thing to do. Push and push. I mean, you're moderately inconvenienced if the train pulls away without you on it!
It's not like you're now stuck on the train, and have to get off and turn around at the next station because some fucktard pushed you onto the train and prevented you from getting off.
Oh, wait. That's why passengers wait for everyone to get off first.
There's that passive-aggressive T rider for you
Passengers have ample time to get off of the train and, last I checked, the train doors were a whole lot wider than a single person. If you're so interested in getting off the train, do everyone a favor and get your lazy posterior out of the seat and go to the door just before your stop. If the operator signals that the doors will be closing and a rider still isn't out of the train by that time, that rider has to expect a brushing. The people on the platform aren't your doormen and aren't there to hold back the velvet rope for you. If you don't know how to get on and off crowded trains by this time, or take your subway cues from Emily Post books, there are some lovely train-free suburbs you should consider.
In most cities with effective public transit systems...
...It is generally accepted that people wait to get on until people getting off have gotten off. The Boston method of pushing in (or at least blocking the exit doors) while people are trying to get out of a train/subway is generally considered rude AND ineffective.
If the T didn't stop running at 12:30 am
this lady wouldnt have desperately tried to get on the train cuz she knew it was the last one.
This T shutting down early is a serious inconvenience and stress causer in this city. I have been screwed by this so many times.
Why is it that Boston's subway system has to shut down early but it runs later in other cities?? Why do we put up with this bullshit as residents??
"Most cities with effective
"Most cities with effective public transportations systems." Care to elaborate? In New York, traffic manages to flow in both directions pretty easily. Nobody's waiting at the doors like in a 1950s transportations filmstrip. Chicago and Washington manage a similar flow as well. Boston's problem isn't that people push, it's that they don't. Everyone here just stalemates until someone gives way, which just doesn't happen. This is why "passenger activity" delays here are more the rule than the exception. This is how you get a situation like the one involving this lady and her handbag: She seemed to think that if she wedged a handbag in the door, someone would open it for her -- as if she was entitled to such things. When you simply believe other people should act a certain way but fail to adjust when they don't, this type of passive-aggressive reaction ensues. You don't work to solve a problem or reach your end, you just create another problem entirely. Think about it: This woman was willing to risk her life for the belief that the world owes her a cookie. Had she just wriggled her way in or bellowed a few well-placed "excuse mes," none of this would have been necessary.
My recollection
Based on a number of trips to New York City over the past decade, is that people wishing to board subways stay OUT of the way of people getting off -- and that most boarding takes place after disembarking is pretty much finished. It's been too long since I last rode the subway in DC to remember much.
In Osaka and Kyoto (etc.) (and Montreal), boarding and gettting off trains and subways is more polite and orderly -- and effective than in Boston.
Not to be argumentative, Michael...
...but I worked in New York for five years and had to transfer from the N train to the 1 at Times Square in the middle of rush hour. It wasn't a mad dash to the door, but people certainly didn't just stand aside. There was an order to the coming and going that made the occasional bump or brush just make sense. It also led to me adopting a front-pocket wallet after coming away from one of those bumps a bit lighter, but I digress. In short, it was more effective because people didn't dawdle nearly as much during the process as they do here.
*Rolls Eyes*
It isn't always possible to get up walk to the door. It is most certainly not possible at most busy times to do so and have something to hang on to when the train jerks to a stop. I have actually caught people in mid fall who were trying to do this but couldn't get to a bar to grab. When the train is packed, it isn't possible AT ALL.
Then again, you might know that if you rode the train for, say, commuting to work or at busy times. Please try another audience, like, say, a suburban newspaper, for your ill-informed rantings.
The fact of the matter is that we are paying for two people to be on the train so that things like this do not happen. We are also paying those people to watch what they are doing, recognize that the last train will have some dashers, and to make sure that people have time to both get on and off the train. That means, well, doing their jobs and not rushing through things to get to bar before last call. These two clearly were not doing their jobs. No sympathy if they get canned for not doing their jobs.
Seat to door in two stops = not hard
I'm Orange line at 8:30 a.m. and 5:30 p.m., lady, and rode the B line for my job before that. I'm sorry that you, in all your collective wisdom and experience still haven't figured out how to get up and get to a door before your stop. Then again, judging by some of your other comments, you have no idea how to navigate this city by bicycle, either.
Not buying it
I think we now know why the T is so screwed up - T employees like this live in a fantasy world.
The only way that I can figure you can manage this on a regular basis is that you must be tall enough to grab on overhead - unlike a good 50+% of the population. Good for you. I suppose you just expect that everybody can pull that trick or should just grow real tall to accomodate your beloved T - and, of course, never ride with crutches, bad knees, kids in tow, poor balance, etc. You must be able to magically disappear all the bodies in your special way, or you just shove your way through like a total jerk.
Either that, or you are commuting out of the city, not into it. You get a seat? At those times? Um, okay. I ride at those times too - wellington to state - and I'm wondering what special trains you get to get such luck! The orange line seems like a jampacked clusterf--- to me - except it's too clustered to f---.
Oh, and I've been biking these streets (medford, cambridge, somerville, Arlington, Boston, JP, Longwood, mission hill) for more than 20 years without a single accident, so I obviously don't know what I'm doing. Right.
Bizarro Orange Line, Perhaps?
One woman's jam-packed vulgarity is someone else's fact of life. The Orange line, which I take into Downtown Crossing each day, is full, but not oppressively so. I never said anything about always getting a seat because, believe it or not, sometimes you have to stand on the train. That only HELPS your ability to get to the door. I wonder how infirm you think our city is, as the poor souls you describe seem to be the exception rather than the rule. In fact, there's a gentleman in a motorized wheelchair who jumps on at NEMC during my ride home who ALWAYS manages to get on and off the train in timely fashion and find a spot by the door while riding. P.S. I don't work for the T, I just know how to ride it. If you've spent decades honing your ability to cut in front of drivers on Mass Avenue and harrass walkers by switching your bike from vehicle rules to pedestrian rules whenever the moment suits you, I'd suggest making that your primary form of transportation and thin the sighing herd of entitled riders who roll their eyes whenever I board a train that hasn't been completely cleared out and broom swept before I step in.
If everyone is pushing,
If everyone is pushing, there's no way people will get on and off more efficiently. That's insane. It'll be absolute gridlock.
Sure, since pushing is "the exception", you're advocating that individuals shove their way onto the train. So, the exceptions get on in the morning. But when it becomes the norm, we'll have even more bullshit like the lady assuming the train operators would see her holding her bag trapped in the door.
And pushing is the exception because it's pretty much common courtesy to let people off first before you get on (You have seen those T courtesy ads, right? One says to let everyone off first). If you miss getting on the train, you have to get on the next one. If someone misses getting "off" the train because you pushed by them to get in, welp, their morning's pretty ruined. Get off at the next stop, which they may or may not be familiar with (and please don't argue that anyone riding the T should be familiar with all stops), try to find the train going the other way (admittedly easy in most places, but what if someone got off at DTC, or worse, Copley?), and then they can arrive at their destination.
In addition, we're still not clear whether it was her bag or her hand. I can't tell from the video, but you apparently have decided!
Full disclosure: I always get a seat on the Orange Line, but I get on at Forest Hills.
The platform's packed with fallacies today
Is there this epidemic of people missing their stops that I don't know about? I'm sorry, but if you lodged yourself so far back in the train that you can't get to the door once you've reached your stop, then there's something fundamentally wrong with your approach to the rail system. I'm all for letting the passengers off, but if significant time has elapsed and all that's left are the last few kernels in the popper, I'm not waiting around. You can have the moral high ground, I'll take my ride home.
You also seem to lack basic cognitive abilities, as "the exception" I referred to in the post above were the elderly and disabled that the other commenter seems to believe are legion in our city. They, sir, are the exception and I don't think anyone advocates shoving them aside. They do, however, manage to navigate the system better than the logically disabled human beings around them who try to stop nonrecycling doors with handbags and then hang on for a bit of subway waterskiing (at the end of the clip, she clearly lets go of the bag).
And, yes, you should familiarize yourself with stops before you get on a city transit system! Tourists seem to get this, as their guidebooks always seem to be open to the T map once they get on the train. Sure, the occasional unfortunate gets off at Chinatown and can't cross over, but this happens on sparsely ridden midday trains too. Stop presenting straw men and all-or-nothing fallacies and stay on the topic -- getting onto and off of the train in a timely fashion, even if it sometimes requires an elbow.
I agree that it's not that
I agree that it's not that hard. There are a few on this board (and really anywhere you go) who just like to complain. I don't know whether they are legitimately unhappy or whether they feel a need to pump themselves up by demonstrating the moral superiority of some alternative experience they've had. Either way, it doesn't relate to reality. It's pretty simple, really. If the train is crowded, behave accordingly, and plan for your stop. The alternative is to demand less efficiency by the 'T, something that would no doubt generate all manner of complaining by the same people who complain that it is too crowded and doesn't linger at stations long enough. What they don't get, is that the resolution for that means longer commutes and higher fares.
I'm so glad the woman is
I'm so glad the woman is okay, and I'm pleased the T took strong action in this case. However, it does seem like the woman may not have been exercising the best T-riding techniques. It looks to me like her rolling suitcase (I think that's hers) never makes it on the train, and I sort of question getting on the train yourself if there's not enough room for all of your baggage. Plus, the person standing next to her clearly steps back as the door closes, suggesting that there was at least some indication that the train was about to leave. And it doesn't seem like *she* was actually stuck in the train, just her bag. If that happens, bang on the train or alert a T attendant (if you can find one) or something, but don't HOLD ON to the bag and run alongside the train! That's just putting yourself in unnecessary danger. The driver/operator definitely should have taken action, but this video is a good reminder of why we need to pay attention when riding the T.
I'm also kind of concerned that it took a month for this story to surface... was the MBTA just waffling in deciding how to handle the incident?
Some of these MBTA workers are...
just damn nasty. They give attitude over the loud speakers and act like it's your fault if one of their charlie card readers don't work.
Sad to say, but many (yes - many) MBTA workers are passive aggressive and need to lose the attitude.
All this being said - I hope the above incident was by sheer negligence/ignorance rather than passive aggressive rail-rage!!!
T WORKERS are passive aggressive?
How about T riders? On every other subway system in the country, riders get up before their stop, go to the doors and get ready to file out. Here, riders remain seated until the train comes to a complete stop and then MAYBE get up at that point to leave. Meanwhile, those boarding the train loaf around in a zombie trance -- shuffling on board with all the speed of Tim Conway's old man character, look right and left for the perfect seat and then ask people if empty seats are taken? It's a daily performance of passive-aggressive theater.
Then you have people like this woman who think that throwing her bag between the doors is a form of calling "dibs" on a seat. Back in the early 90s in New York, then-police commissioner and former Boston commish William Bratton used to put out PSAs warning people not to throw themselves between subway doors -- stating they "aren't elevator doors" and "those doors mean business." It seems we could use a few of those announcements here. Between people who can't believe the CharlieCard system has problems on the first of the month -- and steadfastly refuse to reload before then -- and people throwing themselves into doors, it's like every day is the city's first subway ride. Riders have all the recall of goldfish circling a little plastic castle when it comes to riding the T correctly.
Somebody had to be fired in this case, because draggings are just unacceptable, but riders need to take a lesson from their peers in New York, Chicago and even Philly's awful SEPTA line and ride with purpose.
Metro in washington has
Metro in washington has decent PSA.
"Subway doors do not work like elevator doors, stand back as they close"
and of course
"Please stand to the right on escalators to allow others to pass"
Two operators?
Isn't this exact scenario the reason that we have been told that two operators are necessary?
enough fault to go around
I think it's both their fault. The woman should know better than to try to fling herself in like that are the 'door operator' is supposed to be looking out for things like that. I was once on a red line train where the same thing happened but the woman was on the inside and her hand and pocketbook was on the outside. I thought she was crazy to risk losing her hand like that, I would have dropped the bag and pulled my hand in!
Based on the behavior I routinely observe in my office building
on a daily basis, it seems that sticking an object or body part into a pair of closing doors (like elevators) to keep them from completely closing has become an accepted norm for the majority of people. Personally, I consider such behavior to be one of the more stupid traits the human race exhibits, especially when the object being thrust into the closing doors is an arm or a leg.
Sure, elevator doors are designed to re-open if they sense an object, however, these systems have been known to fail. And, as others have pointed out, doors on subway cars do NOT work the same as elevator doors.
In the Red Line case, I agree that the onus of responsibility for making sure nobody is trapped in the doors is with the 'secondman' who operates the doors, and to a lesser extent, the train operator. However, some fault here must also be attributed to the woman who apparently chose to attempt to re-open doors that were in the process of closing with a purse.
how about check your side mirrors
when you roll out..
How about realizing you're
How about realizing you're going to lose a tug-of-war with a train?
How about no
Uh, have you *seen* a train lately?
If it had side mirrors, it'd be a trolley...or a car.
No mirrors:
http://www.popfi.com/wp-content/uploads/subway-car...
uh yeah smart ass i've seen a train
i ride the red line all the time wise guy thanks for the pic. They may not be on the outside but there are mirrors inside near by the driver angled
that goes for all
drivers too