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Back Bay resident pleasantly pleased to discover JP actually pretty cool
By adamg on Wed, 08/18/2010 - 5:19pm
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Comments
c'mon
Complete ignorance.
well, that was about as annoying as those idiotic NYT articles
on Boston. What a twunt.
Oh look how quaint JP is! I had no idea this place even existed even though it's only four stops down from me on the orange line! Dumdemdum, I never leave my little Back Bay Bubble! Maybe I should really rethink my blog name since I clearly have no idea that Boston encompasses more than Back Bay!
I suspect this loser is no
I suspect this loser is no too familiar with the Orange Line. She may even be ignorant of it's existence. Stupidity masquerading as pretentious is neither clever nor entertaining. I'm glad she enjoyed the meal, but hopefully she won't be writing more drivel about the exotic outer boroughs again anytime soon.
There are always a number of
There are always a number of fancy cars parked on that section of Centre St. in the evening, and the new bars is consistently packed. I'd like to stop in for a drink, but I don't enjoy being so crowded. Maybe sometime soon...
No one goes there any more -
No one goes there any more - it's too crowded.
It is ALWAYS too crowded.
It is ALWAYS too crowded. Good for them, I guess. I've only been there once, and they've since expanded, so things seem to be working out for them.
I do enjoy checking out the fancy cars parked near there while I walk the dog after dark.
Yeah
at the risk of sounding like a jerk, this person is really, REALLY annoying.
"mysterious land of JP"?
I know I know...just let it slide....but really that blog really makes me want to bludgeon the woman with a frou-frou kitchen gadget or some other fate ripped straight from an outtake of The Cook, the Thief, His Wife & Her Lover.
Does she ever leave the Back Bay? I mean besides slumming in the Shoppes at Natick. I might suspect that she's just so wry and sassy that the irony got shot over my low brow head, if it weren't for all the spelling errors and typos. She just may be the Chauncey Gardner of the Back Bay Foodies.
Or ...
She moved up here from New York. I know, I know, but it happens (raises hand). We're not all born with an innate knowledge of Boston neighborhoods.
from where??
Moved here from where??...wait...are you implying that there is something else ...out there.... beyond 495? What kind of heretic are you?
yea
but you don't start a Boston based blog without having some semblance of being familiar with the city. I can't imagine what this chick would think of Dorchester! JP ain't exactly the boonies here. She's freakin' obnoxious.
It wasn't a joke?
Because if it's like a joke and she's playing someone who's really clueless and pretentious at the same time, it's really funny. She could call her blog "New in Town," and do this dope schtick every week. "My goodness gracious, who would ever think that if you went to Revere (you know, like Paul) you'd find it's full of Cambodians! The redcoats are coming indeed!"
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to buy my little baby a new jerkin.
Yelp her out
This thing called the internets ... it has information, maps, transit information and restaurant reviews linking to all of it! Truly amazing!
Oh, man... I'm gonna head
Oh, man... I'm gonna head over with a recommendation to try out Speed's Hot Dogs. I can just imagine the wide-eyed wonder when she arrives at the vacant lot in Dorchester.
Does she crave Barbecue?
I seem to remember some vacant lot off of a residential side street in Roxbury where heavenly stuff is to be found. That would be a "cultural experience"!
Exactly. If she's setting
Exactly. If she's setting herself up as a Boston restaurant blogger, she'll get some snark for being so surprised at JP's existence. "Boston Magazine" gets mocked a lot for being so focused on the suburbs (and I agree with a lot of the mockery), but even that magazine does plenty of reviews in JP, Roslindale and other "outlying" neighborhoods.
Plus, even after she "discovers" JP, she still talks about the neighborhood as if she's the first person to ever visit. Well, maybe she is, in her social circle.
ease up on the condemnation
...so what if they've never been to JP before? The horrors!! There's a kind of reverse snobbery going on with some of these comments.
I've lived in and around
I've lived in and around Boston for years before I ever had any reason to explore JP. I guess I'm just an asshole for not being as cool as you JP snobs! Who do think you are? God forbid someone rights an article praising your precious little stuck up neighborhood. You seriously sound like a bunch of arrogant dickheads!
She could've vilified the area and wrote an article about how 8 people just got shot there and the crime issues, etc. Get off your pedestal.
confusion
Are you replying to my comment sticking up for the blogger by calling me a JP snob? Or am I misreading your comment. For the record, I don't live in JP. I have been to Ten Tables and a few other places in JP over the past several years I've lived in Boston.
I was replying to your
I was replying to your comment in agreement. Who cares if the lady has never been to JP. Seriously...who cares. It seems like some people sit out here and wait to pounce on anything that gives them a chance to gripe. And especially anything that has to do with JP. Like I said...she didn't have anything bad to say..ok so she's oblivious...so what. How dare she not know about the eletist neighborhood of JP. Geeeesh :)
Blah blah blah
The reason to explore JP is that it's there. How can you "live in and around Boston for years" and not explore the area enough to find your way into JP? It's like saying you've been around here for quite some time, but you've never been on Bunker Hill....or checked out the Harbor Islands.
Also, most of the people I recognize in these comments don't live in JP either as far as I've known. They just know that it exists and have visited it from time to time.
You know what sounds like an "arrogant dickhead"? Someone who claims to have been in the area for years, but hadn't stooped to exploring JP. I mean, the entire metro area is big and all with lots of vastly different flavors in each neighborhood/city/town (which is one of the reasons it's such an amazing city to live in)...but YEARS and never found your way into JP once? Yeesh, dude.
I wonder what percentage ...
... of Boston residents (lifelong oer very long-term) have been to Bunker Hill and/or the Harbor Islands? When my kids were in grade school, they were part of a (very) small minority in their classes who had been to such places.
Let's find out
Let's see how it shakes out.
My hypothesis is that nearly all the locals have been to Bunker Hill, out to the Harbor Islands, and been in and around JP at least once in their life. Transplants will have been to all 3 as well...but to a lesser percentage.
Perhaps not a "random sample"
I would bet people here (on UH) are more likely than the average to have explored Boston and environs.
But it will be interesting to see the results.
Definitely
You're probably right. Showing an interest in local news (otherwise, why are you here) probably biases the sample towards people who want to check out everything local they can get their hands on. It's a valid supposition in my mind too.
But you did raise an interesting question that I figured a poll could help answer...even if there may be some caveats to the results.
whoops
Local but never went to Bunker Hill (too afraid I would get whacked by Ben Affleck). First JP visit -- Samuel Adams brewery in the early 90s. (Jim Koch actually gave us the tour!) Tried to buy in JP but it was too pricey. Haven't gotten to the all the islands but a couple of them, yes.
I suspect the touristy spots will have more transplants going to them than locals (discounting elementary school trips you had when you were a kid). I mean if I'm going down to the Navy Yard, I'm more apt to go to the Tavern on the Water than the USS Constitution or the Bunker Hill Monument. Roaming around Charles Street, Cheers, no, The Sevens, yes. North End? Old North Church, yawn, La Famiglia Giorgio, c'mon in. Maybe I'm not a local so much as a glutinous alcoholic...
An interesting oddity....
The Navy folks once allowed a production of HMS Pinafore that used Old Ironsides as a prop. Was lots of fun -- even though the sound system was only so-so.
Hey, I went to that show!
It was produced by a company now called OperaBoston but then called Boston Academy of Music.
The Old Ironsides Pinafore
This had a pretty good turn out, as I recall (this must have been around 10 years ago, I'd guess).
Differing hypothesis
I'm guessing that transplants have been to more places, though as others have said, UH is hardly a random sampling. A lot of the folks I work with who are freaked out to leave Southie or Charlestown or wherever for five minutes wouldn't dare come on some newfangled website built by a transplant from New York.
Human Nature
It is true that people who move are typically different than those who stay. In the health research I am involved with, "mobile populations" versus "stationary populations" is a big issue with regard to a number of factors that can influence health status. Immigration is also a sorting mechanism: those who can migrate for better opportunities often do.
That said, staying in place and not knowing much about things outside your "territory" isn't a behavior that is peculiar to Boston. What I find odd about Boston is how close together everything is and how very geographically small those "territories" are. If you can walk into another area or use a transit system, that is lot less of a barrier to going to neighboring places than if you would need three gallons of fuel and a car and a good weather day to reach a neighboring area.
Harsh. I'm not going to
Harsh. I'm not going to defend vapid filler blog content, like "Oh, I just found this quaint little place that most people know about, so you should hire me and/or click on my banner ads!", but people here sure have an inflated opinion of the importance of Boston and all its parts.
The reality is that, despite what Bostonians think, Boston is a second-class city, and NONE of our neighborhoods in so great that somehow not visiting any one of them should be a considered a failing of character.
Let's ALL get over ourselves.
Yes, because...
badgering and ridicule are always the best ways to draw somebody into your neighborhood. Let's add another foible to the Boston/New England list: "More local than you." From Grove Hall to the non-tourist portions of Charlestown, I'm pretty sure there are a lot of places in this city that go generally unvisited by people who live in this town.
Some people are naturally more adventurous, others just slide into habit. It happens. It doesn't make them horrendous people and it certainly doesn't make them less local than you or I.
As for the Harbor Islands or Bunker Hill, they're the reasons I love when company comes to town to provide an excuse to do these things. That's like asking New Yorkers if they've been to Ellis Island, Trinity Church or the top of the Empire State Building. Remarkably, people live their entire lives in that town without doing any of it and function just fine.
As with the fixies, veganism and just about every other argument that crops up on this site, people aren't going to embrace it if you beat them over the head and say they're dumb for not living life the way you do. Very vew people like being evangelized to. This woman came to JP on her own, and the commenter to whom your responding brings up a good -- if somewhat crass -- point: How do you expect people to come to your neighborhood and love it if the first impression they get is a bunch of snobs chiding someone for her "attitude" about visiting the place? There's some phrase about attracting bees that I think applies here...
Hahahaha...yeah...I'm an
Hahahaha...yeah...I'm an arrogant dickhead because I didn't hang out in JP before I MOVED THERE. Yeah, I live there and the snobby JP attitude can be rediculous. Get over yourself! I guess I don't deserve the right to be a Bostonian because I never previously had a reason to go hang out in JP.
Orienting to Boston
Having gone to undergrad at B(sp)U and currently living in Boston, but having grown up on da nort shore, I know what it's like to not have any familiarity with the n'hoods. (So I'm not all that serious in condemning the foodie blogger on her local ignorance.)
I think a lot of people have that groundhog developmental phase, where our first experiences with the city are via the T. We pop up from underground and scurry about to the stores and sites that we know about close to the Copley stop and then back underground to pop up at Kenmore to do the same. Eventually light dawns on Marblehead and you realize, shit, these places are like a ten minute walk from each other. Your mental maps starts to fill in the gaps between. Eventually you do the same for all the other n'hoods as necessity requires. I still get lost out in West Roxbury or Rozzy -- never had much of a need to go there.
But nowadays, as somebody mentioned, you kids got that kooky Google maps with its links to restaurant reviews and whatnot. It's amazing it doesn't wipe your ass for you! When I was kid I had to stagger about lost and starving (uphill both ways, etc..), almost passing out from dehydration until I found the nearest Ruggles Pizza... You pissants got it made.
Funny story
Looking for apartments for the first time in the city back in 2000, I was staying in hotels in the Peabody area due to price and ignorance while checking places out. I saw places like the Liberty Tree Mall with familiar stores (Target, etc) in a familiar (to me) suburban setting.
I moved into Brighton and would spend weekends driving all the way to Peabody to go shopping. Then, man, light dawns over Marblehead! I should stop wasting all that time driving up 128 and just go...out Rt 9 to Framingham! Sheesh! LOL.
It took me a few more months before I figured out I didn't have to leave the city limits to find everything I needed.
Groundhog phase
Hey - more or less native Bostonian here, and I'll freely admit it took me years to get past that "groundhog phase" for a lot of neighborhoods, and there are still quite a few that I don't know well or at all. Charles Street was my stomping ground in the late 60s, but it took me a long while to learn how that end of the Back Bay connected to North Station, Government Center, and the North End. And while I know at least parts of parts of JP reasonably well, I remain ignorant of South Boston, much of East Boston and Dorchester, and especially West Roxbury, Hyde Park, and Roslindale.
WTF?
The Orange Line runs frequently from Back Bay to JP. The #39 bus runs even more frequently from Back Bay to JP. You can walk from Back Bay to Ten Tables in a little over an hour.
From the tone of this blog post, you'd think she was discovering Everett or Lynn or Woburn for the first time.
Really, this warrants a WTF?
When we first moved from Brighton to the ends of the earth, i.e., Roslindale, I'm sure the locals would have been greatly amused by our driving patterns, i.e., we got pretty much everywhere by first getting to the West Roxbury Parkway, even when heading to downtown (go ahead, laugh) - or the fact we thought the Pleasant Cafe was just a dive bar (ditto).
More recently, if you had told me two weeks ago that the Sam Adams brewery was just two blocks from where all those people were getting shot, I wouldn't have believed you. I've been to the Brewery, and I've driven up that stretch of Washington, but they always seemed like completely different worlds to me - to the point that, OK, I admit it, I was surprised to see how close they are.
I'll grant you, the "deepest, darkest JP" stuff was a bit thick, but, again, we're not all born knowing Boston geography, or have a decade or more to figure it all out.
Boston attitude
It's the old conundrum -- Boston people have that insular, if you don't know then don't ask me kind of attitude that puts newcomers in a bind. But like kris mentioned, if you are just getting your bearings in town, you may want that reflected in your blog a bit more, "New to Boston, Old to Baking" or something...
Because what happened is she not only showed off local ignorance (not a cardinal sin) but then also did it on a blog which reeks of the sort of class-based aroma that set off Boston's other favorite foible, I'm so salt of the earth it's a wonder my thyroid doesn't explode. We like our class warfare here and not just the commies in Cambridge. So this poor woman walked into a veterans only AA meeting and shouted "Hey who wants to get loaded and go burn some flags at the recruiting office?" If she only mentioned something about hipsters and freaking fixies, she could have lit the intertubes on fire.
Safe to say no one loses sleep over this and the earth keeps rotating for her and for us, but it's just really humorous. Glad she found JP and its culinary wonders. In time she'll find more great restaurants in "unexpected" places. Good luck.
3 generations in the local cemetery or you're new
the past three generations of my relatives are not buried in the local cemetery, which makes me a newbie, too. But this kind of treatment is akin to good-natured hazing, which I enjoyed for my first 10 years here and with which I have no quibble. Welcome to Boston, you @#$%in' %^&* !
And it's a good thing I'm now so salt of the earth - my blood pressure has lowered to dangerous levels since I left New York as a teenager.
By that measure
I'm a local of sorts - at least three generations of my ancestors are buried in MA, but they blew town for Maine and then points West in the late 18th century.
my new pet phrase: I'm so
my new pet phrase: I'm so salt of the earth it's a wonder my thyroid doesn't explode
well done John-W
I think you nailed it, John
After my sister and I moved here what seems like a lifetime ago, one of the first things we noticed was how many people we encountered just simply assumed we knew where everything was. "You know, it's where the old Dunkin' Donuts sign used to be near that corner that's not a gas station anymore." It takes a while to acclimate.
As for "more salt-of-the-earth-than-thou," that goes a long way in word and a short distance in deed. I've seen people who looked as humble as pie throw hissyfits over the quality of scallion in their miso soup and know folks who've lived their entire lives in Brookline and have never gone to Southie. Screaming at these people or belittling them for what they are won't get them to change and, more often than not, just get you more riled up. Throw elbows into people who don't get out of your way on the sidewalk all you'd like, sigh when they take too long ordering and dispense "helpful" parenting/cycling/living "advice" all you'd like, it's just not going to change them.
I'm hoping this woman's excursion won her over, and that she continues to take more just like it. People have offered sneering suggestions about Speed's, M&M, Revere and elsewhere, but I hope she does make these trips. At one point, everyone on this board went to one of these places for the first time and was just as new to the experience they now love. Why shouldn't she go through the same process? Because she's from the Back Bay? You have to duck to avoid all the aspersions being cast about.
This has been a great lesson in the power of preconceived notions. I'm glad she's overcoming hers, and I hope the rest of us can do the same in overcoming ours.
P.S. I don't ride fixies, but a lot of the folks at my bike shop do. It doesn't stop them from complimenting and fixing my bike anyway.
I know when I first moved into the city
...from the wilds of the Greater 495 area, I came to town pretty convinced that taking the Orange Line would result in muggings, beatings, or worse. I mean, one of the stations has the word "Roxbury" right there in the name, and you know that place is full of maniacs just waiting to slice'n'dice everyone on the train! Thanks for steering me so delightfully wrong, local news!
Roxbury Crossing: lowest 2009 crime stats among Roxbury stations
Michael, the funny thing is that of the three Orange Line stations unarguably located in Roxbury, the only eponymous one has the lowest 2009 MBTA crime stats.
Jackson Square had 30 reported incidents in 2009, Ruggles 35, while Roxbury Crossing had 21, and 2010 is trending even better in comparison. They're no urban utopias, but the neighborhoods served by the Roxbury Crossing stop are pretty decent places to live.
ok, she's a bit pollyanna-ish
ok, she's a bit pollyanna-ish in her delivery here, and is probably a tad aloof to her surroundings in general, but it's not that outrageous.
I live in JP via North End via Brighton via Ohio, and lived in the city for 5 years before moving to JP, at which point I knew next to nothing about the neighborhood. People who live in the core of the city and do not own cars (a significant population) do not have the same mental map as those who drive (one man's Rte 9 is another man's Huntington Ave.) The thing about many Boston neighborhoods is that you don't have to leave them very often unless you want to.
Even after two years in JP, I know West Roxbury enough to get to Roche Brothers and Fix Masters. The parkways are a maze of confusion to me. I love to ride/walk around and get lost, but you don't want to ask me directions. And honestly, 99% of my trips go the other direction.
I'd like to book a
I'd like to book a reservation in JP - I'll have a table in the non multiple gunshot wound section please!
hahahahahaha...Awesome! :-)
hahahahahaha...Awesome! :-)
Be nice
I think people are being a little harsh on this person. Maybe she is new to Boston or - heavens - isn't from here and is going out to explore the City. I say good for her for exploring the neighborhoods. I'd also wager a guess that there are plenty of people who are from the neighborhoods in Boston or outside of Boston who, if they read this, might also be astonished that there are many great places to dine in JP. When you don't live there, you just don't know - sorry JP'rs. If you feel offended, just think of what it is like to live in Roslindale, where we have many incredible restaurants and stores but the Globe won't even acknowledge that we are part of the City! Yeesh.
Ssh!
I like being able to get a parking space in the Square. Don't ruin it!
Subway
I guess I can sort of understand why Roslindale is off most people's radar--it's really tough to get to by public transit. Orange Line to Forest Hills and then a bus is more than most people (especially transplants, me thinks) are willing to put up with. See the earlier discussion of car vs. public transit people and the maps in their heads.
But I feel your pain, Roslindanian... JP can be like that as you get further from the T. I'm over by Franklin Park (yes, multiple gunshot wound seating... hilarious, anonymous dick) and have never heard the Globe breathe a word about places in Egleston Square or up on Blue Hills Ave that are much, much better than their counterparts on Centre Street.
Clearly I'm not a local
Because the "JP as a foreign land" aspect of the blog post didn't faze me one bit.
What had me shaking my head was that she mispelled limoncello and gherkin. Plus, if it's a small gherkin served with pate, give its french due and call it a cornichon. -3 for the food blogger.
You mean
They don't sell little old-fashioned leather jackets for infants at Ten Tables? There go my dreams of having the most obscurely dressed baby in JP.
I'll have to drown my sorrows in corny shine.
I'll play my lemon cello
I'll play my lemon cello while you drown your sorrows.
Man, what a snarky bunch this board is the last couple of days. Me included.
Jumped the shark... FISH TACOS!
OK. This thread has jumped the shark, and I apologize for helping to perpetuate it.
To offer my amends I have something nice to say.
Fish Tacos!
Check out the fish tacos on her blog. They look darn good. And I want to try her pickle recipe, and if I were a baker, I would make some of those lavender scones.