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Those'll be great in the winter
Sitting empty when all the scooter weirdos are back in their Priuses.
Are you kidding?
Do you think impatient masshole drivers are going to let those sit empty long enough in *any* weather to let a scooter or motorcycle park there?
See, bullshit stereotyping is FUN!
No, I'm not
How does one fit a car into a space for a scooter, genius? Most of the powered-two-wheeler-specific spaces I've ever seen have been sized and configured for two-wheelers only.
Hmm, let me think
The video from the Globe was absolutely useless, but if all they're doing is painting 4 lines where they used to paint 1, then you'd just park the car right on top of all 4 spaces as if it were still for cars.
I've seen cars take up FOUR car-sized parking spaces in a parking lot before. You think it's hard to take up 4 motorcycle spaces on a curb?
Oh, now I get it
So you're saying that, in these scooter-marked spaces, a car could roll in and _not_ get ticketed in about three seconds? I would think this would be obvious even to you, but it's not like a car can just claim those spaces. Apologies for overestimating you. By the way, have you ever been to Boston? Parking enforcement in Back Bay is brutal-- you really can't park illegally there and walk away without getting ticket. Nice straw-man argument though. Your petty whining and sense of entitlement do wonders for the scooter cause.
Oh noes, a *ticket*?
So...a *chance* at a $25 ticket vs a $20 garage spot (if they get away with it even 20% of the time, then the odds favor doing it). Meanwhile, 4 scooter spaces are unavailable.
By the way, how many people have gotten $100 tickets for double parking in the bike lanes around Back Bay?
Yeah, didn't think so.
do you think they'll fit?
Read the article, moron. They're DIVIDED UP spaces. Which means that yes, if you park a car in one of them, you'll be ticketed.
It is, in fact, idiotic. I'm so tired of scooter this and scooter that. I have to suck in the fumes from them as I bike along (MOST of them are 2 cycle because they're cheapest, or they're not-properly-running 4 cycle. Those fucktard hipsters on their 1970's Puchs are the worst).
This isn't the third world. Why are we accommodating vehicles responsible for massive amounts of pollution? Unlike the third world we have a huge public transit system and GASP, bikes. Heaven forbid Kaz should pedal his fat ass around.
Not exactly fair
Kaz has discussed his exhaust before - he doesn't 2-stroke, at least he claims he doesn't.
You spelled it wrong - PUKE is the proper term for those alienated lawnmowers that spew.
and what Special Snowflake Kaz refuses to understand...
...is that next to nobody else does, because 4-stroke engines are much more expensive, complicated, and weigh more. Why do you think India, China, etc have smog so thick you can't see more than 2-3 blocks? Because everyone buys the cheapest.
Oh, right, I forgot- in White Bread Somerville and Cambridge, everyone can afford Vespas with fashion-print yoga mat holders.
Don't go there
I realize you don't know what I do for a living, but you are way off on this one. They are part of a larger problem in those regions, but coal-burning plants, unregulated diesel engines, and domestic use of solid fuels are far more prolific and potent sources in those regions.
As for two-stroke scooters in our area, they are limited to the number of used ones, and are often a matter of nostalgia rather than cost. The EPA still controls the emissions on new equipment sold in the US, and the EU regulates the much larger European market that these things are manufactured and designed for.
As for cost, scooters are not a bike alternative for most people. Combined with a zip car membership they are a car alternative.
Special snowflake?
The only flake around here is you. The city put up a bazillion bike racks around town, holds breakfast rides every few months, and it has improved car parking with the distributed metering. Motorcycle and scooter owners FINALLY get a measly 39 spaces where 6 cars used to be and *we're* the special snowflakes?
I've also gone over the math before (which you so choose to continue to ignore). No matter what crap a scooter puts out, it puts it out at such a mind-shockingly small volume compared to your average up-to-standards car that it's insignificant on TOP of the sheer number of cars vs. scooters in the city. There are probably 1 or 2 crappy exhaust pollutants that a car's catalytic converter takes care of that the scooter doesn't. Again...at seriously minute amounts because the burn rate is just so small.
sigh
Let's go over some of your "points" one by one:
"a bazillion bike racks around town"-- and this affects you, or parking, how? Hmm, let me see-- not at all. If anything, it creates more options for scooter people to lock their scooters to-- which I'm sure has become more of issue as the old meters are taken out, and more and more people are riding bicycles. So, to put it simply (for your sake), the installation of racks is a positive, not a negative, for scooter people.
"holds breakfast rides every few months"-- Oh my God! The outrage! Sorry, again, don't see what the problem, impact, or point is here. Encouraging people to ride a bicycle is one thing; encouraging people to park a motorized vehicle is quite another. I'd be willing to bet that the cost of putting in a sign and painting lines on the street for one of those scooter spaces pays for a year's worth of breakfast rides.
-"and it has improved car parking with the distributed metering"-- "improved" how exactly? I guess it makes paying easier, and collecting more efficient (supposedly-- seems like there must have been some money spent on those kiosks) but it's not like the distributed meters somehow magically created more parking, or made it easier to find a space. While I'm sure that the distributed metering takes some pain out of the process for some people, I think you'd have a hard time finding anyone who drives a car who says that this addreses the main issue: lack of available spaces.
IMO, the distributed meters
make paying more cumbersome, not less. Because you have to go back to your car and leave the ticket on your dashboard after paying. Now that may not be much of an issue if you score a spot right next to one of these meters, but if you're parked half a block or more away ... .
Right, good point
which I neglected to mention-- dropping a few quarters into the meter right next to your car is always going to be faster. I guess the argument that's made for distributed-system convenience is that it makes it possible to pay with something other than quarters, which is something I guess-- and beats the Moses Malone-level rejection you'd get if you went into a retail outlet and asked for quarters.
Forehead slap
Are you kidding? A whole half a block!? Geez, that's almost like twice as far as the nearest storefront!
Never mind that these meter stations can take credit cards, reduce city costs on collection and maintenance, and free up sidewalk space.
Well, if I end up parking in a space three blocks away
from my destination because there aren't any open spaces closer, have to walk half a block (which is indeed longer than two storefronts) to pay for my parking, and then have to walk that half a block BACK to my car to leave proof that I paid, that does make a difference. Especially if I'm facing a one or two hour time limit.
Does your gym have parking?
Maybe you need to go there a little more often if half a block is a burden.
Not a physical burden at all -
but an unnecessary inconvenience. Especially when you're facing a time limit on using the parking space.
Um
Unless the meter maid/BTD camera truck passes you between the time you park your car and the time you put the sticker in the window, then your 2 hour limit hasn't started.
You still lose the time it
You still lose the time it takes to walk from the machine back to your car.
Which doesn't matter
You get beyond the two hours by however long it takes for your ticket to run out and the maid to make it to your car to start the ticket.
Walking from the machine to your car is meaningless.
Way to read intent where there was none
I wasn't naming the bike racks, breakfasts, OR new meter system as detriments to scooters, you strawman-setting simpleton. I was naming ways in which the city has specifically targeted benefits for bikes and cars to point out that it's not like motorcycles and scooters were getting "special snowflake" privileges from the city by having street parking added for them.
Way to completely miss the point
Which was this: That reallocating on-street parking spaces affects a limited resource. If a car space is restriped and reposted as scooter spaces, then it adversely affects car parking. Bike racks, breakfasts, etc. don't take away a limited resource.
So actually, yes, they are getting special snowflake privileges-- they can park on the sidewalk, or the street, more cheaply than people in cars-- and can get to and from Back Bay for less than people who ride the T. Sounds special to me.
That's odd
Public space is owned by the public, not by scooter owners or car owners per say. That means it exists for the public good - not just for the good of people in cars, scooters, etc.
If having scooter spots means more people can get around and through the city, that's for the greater good, which is what public space is for. If getting rid of some parking in order to have proper bike lanes gets more people in, around, and through the city while reducing pollution, that is for the greater good.
Some car owners really need to get over themselves and their sense of entitlement. If I bring my large motorized bubble into the city, I expect that it will cost me because it should cost me because amenities for cars are inordinately costly! Otherwise, I would be the special snowflake to think that my mode of transportation should be privileged over less efficient and less space consuming methods of getting around, just because that space was converted for the common good, no?
Government subsidy of scooter-commuters?
The main (but not the only) problem I have with this is the lack of a time limit. Seems to me that this will allow people who work near those spaces to take them up all day, for $2/day, which is a luxury that no one else, as I see it, gets, unless they walk or bike. Cars don't, and even if you have a T pass a two-way ride from more than a little ways away is more than two bucks.
But why? Why should their commutes be subsidized? Also, the story notably omits the whole point of having two-hour limits in the first place: to free up spaces in business districts so that shoppers can park there. Yes, even if the revenue generated per day per foot of curb is the same (which it likely would be if 4 scooters fit into a car-size space), for every scooter that parks there all day long, you lose a quarter of a car's worth of shopping revenues, including sales tax, wages, etc. (Not to mention the fact that the typical scooter rider probably spends less than a car driver-- but yeah, they probably do). While I'm sure that those people who work in the area and own scooters will appreciate the subsidy, it's only going to help them and hurt business.
Why subsidized?
Because they're better than a car in a billion different ways from traffic decongestion to lower environmental impact. So, encouraging more scooter commuters instead of car commuters is better for everyone.
As far as the time limits, this is a motivation to move the bikes off of the sidewalks. If you put a time limit and make it inconvenient (especially initially), then scooter drivers are just going to keep parking on the sidewalk instead. Why would they want to have to come back out and feed the meter when they can park uninterrupted for free on the sidewalk? I bet as more people use these spaces (and I expect most of them will be used by motorcycles more than scooters, especially initially), you'll see more of them added and maybe even a time limit added to help encourage rotation of other 2-wheelers getting access.
As far as "a quarter of a car's worth of shopping", you're actually just plain wrong backwards on that. Every car probably brings 1-2 people to Newbury St on average. 4 scooters = a *minimum* of 4 people using the same curb space. You just introduced MORE people and thus MORE dollars to the district.
Billion, bazillion-- whew!
You sure are tossing around a lot of big numbers here, but let's keep it simple here, K?
First of all, the scooter spaces aren't the city's way of discouraging car commuters: As I stated above, but you chose to ignore (or just didn't understand; I can't tell) car commuters are already well-discouraged by the two-hour limits. Period. End of discussion. Car-commuters simply can't legally park in one space, all day long.
Second, scooters aren't a "bazillion" times better than cars in terms of traffic. In fact, if you're talking about 6 scooters vs. my Toyota, and even if you take the wildly-overstated-yet-somehow-gospel figure of 100 mpg for a scooter, the "emissions cost" per car-size space is only lower for those six scooters if my car got less than 16 2/3 mpg. Which it doesn't.
And as far as your last graph, no, sir, _you_ are just plain wrong. Again, you ignore turnover: Even if one goes with your own shoddy math, which estimates an average of 1.5 people per car, you're talking about 6 people, on average, per car space, per 8-hour day at a minimum, if the space turns over only every two hours. Which isn't the case-- some use spaces for less.
Let me know if these numbers work for you-- I know that it's more fun to talk about godzillions and the like, but the relevant numbers here are all two or three digits.
LOL
If we're talking about people going there to shop and not to work, then the scooters are leaving in a timely fashion too after their shopping is done and the turnover whether the shopper came on a scooter or in a car is exactly the same. If we're talking about employees parking near work, then whether the scooter owner parks in the same spot all 8 hours or the car owner parks in 4 different spaces at 2 hours a piece, the usage is the exact same...but the scooter takes only 1/4th of the space of a car. You can't compare car shoppers vs scooter employees like there's something economically inherently wrong with a scooter not having to move spaces every 2 hours.
Also, I'm not sure why your doing 6 scooters per car. Most places I've seen turn a car curb spot into a motorcycle spot get 4 2-wheelers per 1 car space. My guess is that they only eliminated 6 car spaces and got 39 scooter spaces by taking them near cross-streets, driveways, and crosswalks where they couldn't have fit another car, but there was room for 1-2 more scooters in each case. 4-to-1 is a much more common ratio for 1 lost car space providing an additional 4 motorcycle spaces. At 100 mpg for the scooter, you'd have to do better than 25 mpg...something nearly all trucks, SUVs, and many cars just aren't reliably capable of in the city (or even city/highway combined in most cases).
You're still making stuff up man
As People's Republican mentioned, the 100 mpg figure isn't accurate for most of what's out there. It's a fun number, but not true. What's the mpg on your scooter? not some theoretical, idealized number for a 49cc machine going downhill with a tailwind, but you, on your own personal ride? 60, 70 maybe? If you tell me you get 100, you're either lying or you're terrible at math. Even the manufacturers only claim 100 that as the upper limit for their smallest scooters-- and we all know how honest manufacturers are with that kind of thing.
Moving along then: Let's say we go with your four scooters per car space estimate (fine) and go with, say, a claimed 80 mpg for scooters (still high, but whatever). And let's say my car gets about 25 mpg, even in the city, which it in fact does. If I chose to park in a space intended for four scooters-- ideally, right on top of them-- I'd still be doing less damage to the environment in terms of emissions than those four scooters.
P.S.-- I really hope you don't research any really deadly disease, and are keeping it to chronic but non-fatal issues like bedwetting. Or is that a personal thing?
Hypothetical here - Say I ride my scooter into town
in the middle of the day to meet a friend for lunch on Newbury Street. If I'm unable to use one of these spaces because they're all taken by commuters exploting the fact there's no time limits, guess where I'm probably going to park my scooter. Yep - on the sidewalk.
As others have pointed out, parking time limits, esepcially in a shopping district like Newbury Street, generally make sense(within reason). Just because a person's vehicle is less polluting that somebody elses does not justify giving them special privlidges.
(for the record, even if I owned a scooter, it's unlikely I would drive it into Downtown Boston - I'd use the T and walk instead).
Actually, it's more like
Cars with 2 hour time limit = minimum 1 to 2 additional people per every two hours, or 4 to 8 additional people per 8 hour day.
Scooters with no time limit = minimum 4 additional people per 8 hour day.
IF
And it's a big IF.
IF those cars don't just drive around the corner to a new space for the next 2 hours, THEN the turnover you're trying to compare would be true. Of course, if the car owner can finish their business and leave in 2 hours, then why would you require the scooter owner to stay the full 8 just because they can? Maybe they finish their business and leave in 2 hours too.
Compare apples to apples. Scooters take less space, carry more people per footprint on average, and use less gas. The parking habits of a scooter owner are the same as an equivalent car owner, except that they won't be bothered by having to move the scooter every 2 hours. If you want me to argue that there should be more scooter spaces so that scooter owners would have somewhere to move them to every 2 hours if there were a time limit OR that there shouldn't be time limits on car spaces to make them equivalent to scooter meter rules, I'm all for it.
Otherwise, it just sounds like a bit of jealousy. What do car owners care whether scooters have no timer or not?
Guffaw
Jealous? Of you? 'Fraid not. In fact, I can't say I've ever seen someone on a scooter and felt anything other than pity and/or scorn.
While there are people who drive in, park, and move their cars every two hours, they're very much in the minority-- as a practical matter, most people don't have jobs that allow them to do this, or if they do, it's too much of pain to do it.
By the way, scooters aren't going to save the earth. Please.
Need something to chain the scooters to
This sounds great, but a couple of months ago I spoke to a supervisor at BTD's enforcement division, and she told me that you are not allowed to park on the street and then chain the scooter to a meter or pole. (She also told me that anything with a plate that is parked on the sidewalk gets ticketed, even though Tom Tinlin was quoted multiple times last summer saying that there would be no such crackdown until the city figures out how to handle the scooter parking situation.)
Since mopeds and scooters are light and can be stolen quite easily, I hope the city puts some bike loops next to the parking spaces, and allows us to chain our scooters to them.
BTW, for those people who complain about scooter emissions: my scooter is battery-powered, and my landlord buys clean energy for a portion of his electric bill. So my local emissions are zero, and my total emissions are negligible. I ride the scooter 9 months out of the year.
Looking forward to visiting the city!
Now that there are spaces for me to park my maxi-scooter (400cc's, 60 mpg's, EPA approved exhaust, HUGE truck space for shopping goodies, a little over 500lbs wet) downtown, I may actually come in and visit. Usually I just go to Dana Farber for chemo treatments, and they let me park on a part of their property that is all chopped up by support pillars. With official parking on Newbury St, I may actually go and check out the shopping.
I know come car drivers find the little putt-putt scooters annoying as they whiz through traffic, but some of us drive full size two wheelers and do appreciate having designated spaces to use.
How about someone do a usage follow-up in a week or so and update us all on how practical the spaces are?