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Poor tourist forced to find Boston Massacre site all by herself because none of the locals has a clue
By adamg on Sat, 07/10/2010 - 9:50pm
Mary Myers, who lives near Philadelphia, has long looked forward to visiting Boston. Finally, she made it. Had a great time exploring history - except for finding the Boston Massacre site. Seems she couldn't find any locals who knew where it was:
... I searched high and low on the Freedom Trail for this spot, asking vendors and even a park ranger about it. Even the advice of the kind park ranger couldn’t help me find it. Then….a-ha….it appears on an island in the middle of the road! Now, I didn’t come all this way for nothing, so we braved the cars going to and fro to stand on the spot, which is commemorated by a small plaque embedded in the ground. Just gave me chills, thinking of all the people that fought, and died even without fighting, to gain and preserve our freedom. ...
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Comments
So where is the bloody thing?
For those of you Bostonians who thought "Gee, I really should learn where it is," and reading the blog came up empty, I have heard your cry of frustration and provide you with this link.
I read this differently
I used to work right across the street, and found that tourists don't always believe you
when you point it out. "Where?" "Right there." "Where?"
I think they're expecting something more impressive than a ring of stones in the
middle of a traffic island.
This is the way I read it. I
This is the way I read it. I literally have to walk people the twenty feet on the island because its location just blows their mind.
there's a big monument....
But it's on the Common...
She doesn't say the Ranger couldn't tell her where, just that she had trouble finding it. The NPS give Freedom Trail tours that include that spot. I thought there was a marker but I am probably misremembering. It's been awhile.
The street layout there is not good; crossing the streets isn't life-threatening, but it sure is tedious.
But it's not on the
But it's not on the Common!
It's right in front of the Old State House, by the State station on the Orange & Blue lines.
I was surprised to take my first Duck Boat ride this year (after growing up in the suburbs and now living in Somerville for a decade) and the driver turned right through this intersection without even mentioning it. For a minute there I thought I'd been wrong all this time about where it is, but the bostonmassacre.net link above confirms that indeed it's in front of the old State House.
(The Duck Boat ride was a lot of fun otherwise, by the way. Being a tourist at home can be great fun. :-)
Are any of the 'locals'
Are any of the 'locals' actually from Boston any more? Or did they all come here from Long Island to go to school?
Migration is bad!
Do any of your "locals" (assuming not actual Native Americans) actually know where anything outside of a two-block radius of their house is, or are they too busy sitting around with their entire street full of relatives and resenting anyone who's gotten an education or gotten to know other cities or countries?
Ah, the picture of bigotry. A
Ah, the picture of bigotry. A 'street full of relatives,' - you can just see them, beating their wives when not spewing random racial insults at no one in particular. And of course, 'those people' wouldn't have an education, you know, like us.
My parents grew up in Boston. They were high school gradates, and they damn well knew where the Boston Massacre happened. And as it happens, my father sat and watched a television news report with me that told of Ivy League students who couldn't find major countries on an unlabeled map. He was horrified - he knew the capital of every state, and he could certainly find Argentina or Thailand on a map. Believe it or not, the Boston public schools were once the jewel in the crown of American public education.
Tell us, eeka, what was the most difficult course you took and passed in college? You know, the one that would show us your highest intellectual achivement.
Gym
Duh.
Pretty amusing to see one
Pretty amusing to see one person attack stereotypes by utilizing a different set of stereotypes.
This... And knowing where
This...
And knowing where sh!t is ain't "educated". Regardless, they're both re-ree's.
shameful attitude toward those less fortunate
Not everyone is fortunate enough to get an education beyond high school. Some have to work to help support their family. And, by family I don't mean their own children. So sad that your highly educated mind isn't able to grasp that concept before you choose to trash people less educated than yourself. I'd love to see you go into the heart of Roxbury or Dorchester and announce this kind of bigotry to inner city folks.
Slapped with a Clue Stick from the Heart of Roxbury & Dorchester
Wow, we have stereotypes flying left and right on this thread.
Here's a message straight from the heart. I live in the heart of Roxbury and I go to church in the heart of Dorchester. Education was, and still is, the focus. Families in both places drive their kids hard to get ahead. There are plenty of masters degrees and PhDs throughout both neighborhoods. Doctors doing internships and residencies—right here in Roxbury. Musicians, artists, and tradespeople. UMass & Tufts students. Folk studying at night at Suffolk. Plenty of people working hard at Roxbury Community College and at Bunker Hill getting their associates. Timilty School and Epiphany School student striving for the high school and college education they'll need.
American blacks, West Indians, Vietnamese, Latinos, and white folk all looking to get ahead. Sure, some people are lucky to have gotten out of high school with a diploma and are working at two jobs. Many of them are doing it so that their families have the chance they didn't.
So don't paint two-thirds of the city as being chock full of folk who didn't or couldn't get the education they need and want. Because, it's just not the way things are.
And lay off eeka. As far as I can tell she is preaching it from her home, the heart of Roxbury.
Nice
This well-spoken anon preached it far better than I could have. And anyone who knows me knows that was hardly a broad-brush crack at classes or neighborhoods. It was a carefully aimed crack at the people who actively resent anyone who isn't from here, or people who are from here and have ever left the neighborhood, and who need to disparage anyone who does anything different from what they themselves do. You know, the people who think this city would be better off without any college graduates and without anyone whose family hasn't been here for generations. Cities are constantly in flux, and diversity makes the world beautiful.
There are four kind of Bostonians
Natives - The people who saw the sails of the Mayflower on the horizon and said "There goes the neighborhood"
Locals - People who have lived in the area for many generations and are well off financially, worked in what is considered a white collar field.
Townies - Just us folk. If you have the kind of job Mike Rowe might do on his show, your a townie. If you need a shower after work because your job gets you dirty your a townie. This can be passed down one generation, so if your parents are townies, your a townie. But unless you have a townie job, your kids become locals.
Out of Town - You were born some where else but found your way to Boston because you realize it is an amazing city. Those of us who were born here congratulate you on your amazing ability to find this wonderful city we call home. We already figured out it was an amazing place and see no need to move elsewhere.
A subset of OOT is the college student. We know your away from home for the first time, trying to find out who you really are. That you might find this city as wonderful as we do and stay a while. Just please remember to look all three ways when crossing Com Ave, and don't ride your bike on the rails.
All we really ask is that you not act as if your superior to us because you moved here. If we the citizens of this city on the hill, this bluest of blue states promise not to assume those of you who come here from west of the Hudson River have never seen a sidewalk before, would you promise not to assume that any one who drops their "R" must be dumber than a parking meter.
I will not however list all the wonderful cities and countries I have visited. Lets just say, of all the places I have been, Boston is was and always shall be my home. From your comment, I wonder where you consider home to be?
I thought this came up a few days ago, but...
[size=144]YOU'RE[/size]
grammer correction
well, that is one way to add to the town vs gown discussion we are having. Your/you're is a pet peeve for me also, but oddly enough, people do not usually appreciate this kind of input. I did not even notice it until Eeka pointed it out. Given the general construction of the post, I am pretty certain Fibro knows the difference, so I would have let it be. Heck, I wouldn't bother correcting those "that's my man/cuz/brother" posts. I used to think most of those were fictional. How many readers does UH have anyway? But then, two smallish events that I attended were posted on UH with photos (pops @ pinebank and wreath for John Quincy Adams @ Quincy) so I am now more nearly convinced that "Universal" is appropriate!
Irony...
"but oddly enough, people do not usually appreciate this kind of input."
Mmhmm.
Dear sweet Jesus, you suck
So after this poster takes the time to write a very thoughtful and concise breakdown of the whole local/not local debate here, all you can add to the exchange is some pissant criticism of their grammar? The only reasons to ever correct someone's grammar here, or in any online medium really, are if that person:
1. is saying other things that are patently stupid (which this person was not), or
2. is correcting someone else's grammar, and is using poor grammar in doing so (which this person was not)
That's it. Those are the only two reasons-- no more. You strike me as the same kind of tedious person who decries poor grammar in texts and instant messages. Guess what? Civilization doesn't end if someone neglects to put an apostrophe where you think it should go.
Dear Sweet Jesus! Can YOU read anon?
Had you understood my post, you would have realized it was more of a gentle rebuke to Eeka for her criticism of what I thought was an excellent post by Fibrowitch. Yes, I am pretty tedious, but You may need throttle back on your flame thrower there dear anon.
John
Sweet Jesus, Sweet Jesus!
Had you looked at the indentation, you'd see that Sweet Jesus is ripping on me, not you.
Fibrowitch's post was excellent, yes.
fibrowitch's post actually sucks pond water, eeka. Let's fisk it
Actually eeka, fibrowitch's post sucks pond water. Or, maybe it blows. It's hard to tell. In any event, let's give it a good fisking and see.
Native. One born here. We're trying for some politically correct cred, but fail. Native American? First Nation? Aboriginal. It's so hard to know what the vogue is in these fraught oughties.
"Many generations." That is what really sets the tone of this post. It's like at nauseating community meetings where a local or a townie—it's hard to keep them straight—will say "I've live here for 40 years, and I think that..." Well whatever it is they think. Maybe it's a way of saying that, in some weird metaphysical way, his tax dollars buy more than my tax dollars, since I only moved here last year. And, cuz I've got some education, my opinions are not quite based in the real life of the neighborhood.
"Us folk, not them." Here's where the bullshit really flies. Am I disqualified from commenting at all, cuz I'm thinking "who the fuck is Mike Rowe"? [Right, google helps out with that. He's an opera singer from Nickletown.]
Anyway. Townie is apparently some kind of two-toilet, generation-limited royalty. Gotta shower after work, not just before you go to work in the morning. I'd say something here about city hacks, but I don't have the time.
This is how we townies and locals account for the rest of the people in the Hub. They actually don't count at all, cuz if the locals and the townies are lucky they will get sick of the parochial insularity and move. Or, they'll have children and decide they won't tolerate the suck ass schools like the locals and the townies are apparently willing to.
College students. 'nuff said. We all hate them. And, secretly rejoice when one of them gets snuffed by a trolley on Huntington Ave.
All we really ask is that you OOT recognize that only locals and townies count in the Hubbish political scene. Cuz, we are the citizens around here, cuz our parents were.
fibrowitch, of course, isn't the ignorant twit he appears cuz Jet Blue's got cheap fares. And, fibrowitch tells us one last time that OOT folk will never be able to say they are from Boston, cuz grandma wasn't born here. Of course fibrowitch tells us that she doesn't actually live in Boston, but never mind.
How fibrowitch's post really fails, though is this.
She has left out OFDs. And he hasn't told us how to refer to townies and who happen to live in Roxbury.
OFD: Originally From Dorchester. You know. Like on those annoying oval, black and white bumper stickers. Only instead of CDN or CH, they say OFD. The ones that signify that "my white family fled darkening Dorchester for the lily-colored south shore in the '60s, '70s, and '80s, but we still come back to the ole parish for weddings, baptisms, and funerals. (Too bad about Quincy, Randolph, and Milton.) So treat us with respect, cuz we had been here before you moved in."
Townies from Roxbury?! You must be kidding. Ya can't be from Roxbury and be be a townie in this caste system.
So much spite!
Why can't we all just get along?
Someday they'll make a movie about your people, Jonas- I swear. It will be called "The Arrived" and Leonardo DiCarprio will play a really smart but uncompromisingly ass-kicking guy who moves to Boston and conquers the insular townies with his great mind and virtuous deeds.
I'm just grateful that reverse snobbery seems to have gradually bested racism as the preferred form of local bigotry- it's a small step in the right direction.
while we are fisking
<<<
fibrowitch, of course, isn't the ignorant twit he appears
>>>
I sort of assumed that Fibrowitch is a female. I thought the name might be a pun. Maybe a witch with Crohn's disease? Anyway, I suppose the gender of the writer should not interfere with a good fisking.
Jonas, I think the thoughts of the person who has been here paying taxes for umpteen years should carry a tiny bit of extra weight. I speak as one of those outsiders who moved here from Long Island, Sorry Notwhitey). They have demonstrated some level of commitment to the community. To be sure, in many cases it is simply a question of inertia. They may have seen whippersnappers like you or I blow in and then leave in short order. Nothing necessarily wrong with that, but I notice institutions tend to get their way more often when there is less community "memory" (MGH and Charles St Jail come to mind). My long term resident neighbors can also usually tell me who is the right person to talk to when some wheel needs to be re-invented.
Full of win
Most excellent fisking thar, Jonas.
I meant more that it was entertaining, not that I agreed with any of it or anything. After all, pretty much what I got out of it was inspiration to post a 144-point boldfaced contraction.
However, anything that results in people sweetjesusing at one another is OK in my book.
No, No, I insist, It was I that was being attacked!
besides Dear Sweet Jesus bashed someone whose only contribution was a pissanty comment regarding grammar (that might have been me), whereas you have made many comments in the thread!(jokingly,I have to learn those emoticons someday, or maybe write better)
So we're having a threeway with Jesus? What?
At least this time you spelled grammar right!
*runs* (o: <--- I got yer emoticon right thar!
exposed, who knew subject headings were not spellchecked?
Guess I not really such an internet tough guy (on grammar)after all w/o my spell check. Whimper.
She'll be happy to know that
She'll be happy to know that the Old State House, in front of the Boston Massacre site, is planning a major rennovation that would connect the traffic island with the rest of the Old State House site connecting the two and creating a pedstrian plazza. Of coarse they need money to do this so I hope she left a donation!
Maybe she should have bought a tourist map
Even the free maps that the sightseeing tours hand out show the spot. It's not a very big spot, but then it was in the middle of one of America's biggest (at the time) cities. Yes it is in the middle of a busy intersection, but then that is where it happened. In the middle of a busy intersection.
I found it funny that she asked street vendors and Park Rangers where to find the spot, was the tourist center not open? The many people who dress up like the first Tea Party happened last month to unapproachable? When I go to another city to play tourist (yes I have been past 495) I always get books, maps and now web pages so I know where I am going and what I want to see. I wonder if she knows where the Liberty Bell is, and can she direct some one to it? Now if only she would blog about why the site is so meaningful to her, instead of how hard it was to find.
Actually, the Park Rangers
Actually, the Park Rangers are there to help people find the sites along the Freedom Trail and answer their questions. The costumed folks are mostly actors and actresses who do a good job entertaining visitors, but don't really go much deeper than a puddle (with some notable exceptions). The best maps can be found at 15 State Street, the Bunker Hill Monument/Bunker Hill Museum, and Building 5 in the Charlestown Navy Yard with mostly helpful people who are able to point out sites like the Massacre and tell you a bit about the history of why it happened, why it is important, and how we preserve it today.
The main problem, as has been brought up above, is that people are expecting the monument that is at the Boston Common to be at the actual spot...not a innocuous circle of cobblestones. This is the hardest site to find along the Freedom Trail and it is rather sad since so many people want to learn more about the events that happened that night, especially after the HBO miniseries on John Adams.
The Liberty Bell?
It's on Broadway in South Boston.
Everybody knows where that is! Well, I mean, unless you're from out of town. Then you probably think it's someplace else.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
Welcome to Figure It Out For Yourself
It's right down the street from Whattayagonnado.
We aren't here to help you figure out where the history happened. We're still busy making it.
The Freedom Trail's clandestine site
If you read Mary's original blog post about not being able to find the Massacre site, you'll see that she was in Boston in February, even though the blog entry wasn't posted until July. There were no park rangers or tour guides (costumed or not) leading tours at the time; few of the pushcart vendors were out. She went into the nearby Visitor Center; the rangers told her where to look, but they couldn't go outside and actually point it out to her. A map would not have helped, either, because all the maps simply say that it's in that large intersection -- they don't say WHERE in the intersection it is. Even if you're 20 feet away from it and looking directly at it, you're likely to miss it, since there are no signs to indicate it. It's truly the clandestine site on the Freedom Trail -- flush in the pavement in the middle of a traffic island, at most half an inch above the surrounding concrete. And there's also a lot of construction in that intersection this year, providing further distractions.
The circle of stones has been moved twice since it was first installed in the 1880s. The original site was very close to where Crispus Attucks fell. In 1904 it was moved a few yards away due to subway construction. It was moved again during construction of Government Center in the 1960s, and the extension of Congress Street north of State Street. The present location has no historical significance; it was chosen simply because the city wanted to put a traffic island there. The circle of stones was moved to the traffic island so that visitors like Mary could stand on the marker without being hit by a truck.
So where is the real spot?
In the middle of a traffic lane?
Do you suppose
they were worried about were the cars would be going when
they fired the shots 230 years ago?
This engraving suggests it was further down State Street. Maybe around 60 State Street.
http://www.bostonmassacre.net/gravure_large.htm
Of course there is nothing that I know of that suggests that the gravure is accurate.
Yes, in the middle of a traffic lane
It was in the middle of a traffic lane in 1770, and it's still in the middle of a traffic lane 240 years later.
Actually, most of the streets have been widened, so even if it was near the property line in 1770, it would be in the middle of a traffic lane today.
Southbound lane of (New) Congress Street, near the left side as you drive south; that is, close to the middle of the street.
Going west on State Street, the site where Crispus Attucks fell would be in the right lane. This is where the circle of stones was originally placed in the 1880s. It was moved closer to the middle of the street in 1903.
But some of the victims were 30 to 50 yards away from Attucks -- in different directions -- when they were shot.
Thanks...
...for all the details.