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Boston cabbies may have to take credit cards, but they don't have to like it
By adamg on Wed, 09/21/2011 - 11:07am
Laura Vogel snapped this photo today, asks:
Remind me again how this is my fault?
The city increased fares 16% in 2008, partly to cover the cost of credit-card processing, partly to cover higher gas prices. Some cabbies, however, remain pissed over the credit-card requirement.
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Comments
Cashless society
If we didn't live in a cashless society, this wouldn't be an issue. People were fine for years paying cash for cabs. It is so irksome to see people paying for a 99 cent bottle of water in a convenience store with a credit/debit card. What brought about this relatively recent change? Do people find it so distateful, inconvenient or unsafe to carry around or use even small amounts of cash?
You know what Irks me?
Someone, in the day of the internet, free information, and technological advancement, refusing to take Debit/Credit.
I don't like carrying cash around one my person, nor do I like having to deal with change. I can easily slip a drivers license, credit card and my debit card in my back pocket, and not have to carry a fat wallet loaded with cash.
Many times I've had to stand behind the counter as someone counts out their change or issues a check. Me? A 5 second swipe and I'm on my way.
Boy, I'd love to be behind you in line
I seem to perpetually get stuck behind the people who wait until the cashier tells them their total, then decides it's time to dig in the purse (or pocket) for the card, then somehow tries 11 different ways of swiping the card before finally realizing that, yes, the magnetic stripe DOES have to be on THAT side, then trying twice more before getting it to work, then having to be told verbally when to click "yes" or "no" because keeping one's eyes on the reader for more than 3 seconds is impossible, then sealing the card back in whatever vault it belongs in within the purse (or pocket). Maybe I just have bad luck.
Someplaces are quick though.
Starbucks workers are quick with the credit card and are always faster than cash paying customers.
Agreed - the employees are usually on the ball
I was thinking about places where they have the reader out front for the customer to
misuseuse.Same luck
But they're just as slow with Cash or a Check too. Plus everyone's got to learn sometime, and new users seem confused. I still have to talk my parents through the technical differences between credit and debit, even as they have both a credit and debit card.
While a new machine format might slow me down, it's usually not by much. It's still much faster than alternative methods. The only time it seems to take longer is when it's the store's fault (broken swipe machines).
Still, if you know what you're doing credit/debit transactions are extremely fast, and faster than cash. Especially with large purchases, or small purchases where a lot of coins are being exchanged.
Inappropriate line behavior
You bring up a good point. Why, oh why, do people, who are waiting in line to pay for a purchase wait until the very nanosecond the cashier tells them the cost to start digging through multitudes of bags and purses to come up with the card (if using a card)or cash (if using cash)? Wouldn't it be a more productive use of time to dig for the card or cash while in the line, thus promptly presenting it to the cashier (or swiping)? You know the cost of what you are purchasing anyway, so be prepared. It is these same people who then STAY at the cashier after paying, while they reverse the whole process and bury the card/cash deep back from whence it came, preventing the next person from stepping up to the cashier. This is bad line etiquette, but it has become the norm.
I know I'm getting off topic
I know I'm getting off topic here but these must be the same people who stand at a bus stop for ten minutes. When the bus finally arrives they jump in front of everyone and then start digging through there purse for their charlie card. Whew!, they finally found it. But wait it turns out they don't have sufficient funds on their card. So then they have to dig through their purse again for cash and of course it never seems easy for them to refill their cards.
(What) Cashless society (?)
We don't live in a cashless society, any more than we live in a paperless society.
Cash free transactions take less time if they're done correctly. Plus there's less potential for tax fraud and violent crimes (robberies) when no cash is involved.
Seems like cabbies across the
Seems like cabbies across the country are up in arms about having to pay for the processing fees. Check out the situation in San Francisco: http://www.creditcardprocessing.net/san-francisco-taxi-drivers-upset-about-processing-fees/.
Seriously, they chose to be cab drivers, so they need to own up to the tools of the trade.
Wow
That sticker is a really good way to get me to pay with a credit card, even though I almost always pay with cash. You're bitching at the wrong audience, cabbie.
Exactly. You take me the long
Exactly. You take me the long way home, "miss" a turn, don't stop in front of my house anyway because it's not convenient to go back to downtown, then have the nerve to bitch at me about a fee that isn't my fault?
Ha. Way to suck, suckface.
Entitlement
There are other jobs to be had ... or maybe not. Either way, most of us cab users could care less. Never "punish" or whine at the customer for something the customer may have little control over (like a company policy about paying all cab fares with credit cards).
This sort of whining and declaring oneself above reasonable job requirements is why I avoid taking any cabs at all in Boston. I book travel pickup and dropoff on the web when it comes to it.
Oh, but those evile limos are just UNFAIIIRRRRRRR.
Seriously
How's this any different from every other line of work?
In any job, there are situations where, when they arise, you end up making less money, having to stay longer, having to work harder, having to do something unpleasant, etc.
I like to think that people are decent and aren't generally out plotting to make people's jobs harder. But sometimes life happens, and someone does something that makes someone's job harder. It happens to everyone, and it gets passed around. It isn't like the cabbie has never broken something at someone else's business, or had their kid puke all over the place at daycare, or forgotten to show up for a doctor's appointment, or had a really really tough drain to unclog, or misspoke while ordering at a restaurant and then sent the dish back. And I'd like to hope that the people at other businesses were gracious and just chalked it up to part of doing business, rather than having bitchy signs.
Part of living in a community, folks.
I'd do the same. Its their
I'd do the same.
Its their union or association that negotiated the fees, not the riders. WE are the ones who should be tick'd off, we're the ones who end up paying MORE because of the fare raises.
Yeah. I mean why would you
Yeah. I mean why would you want to respect the high overhead unfairly placed on a small business owner? Jeez.
Define Unfair
How is this "unfair"?
It is only "unfair", given the rate hike, IF you assume that underreporting cash tips is a God given right, and not, you know, illegal?
I still don't understand why
I still don't understand why they're paying 6%. They're probably the only ones in the country that pays 6% on credit card transactions. Square will send you a free reader for your phone and only charges 2.75%. Intuit has a similar product where they charge 1.7%-2.7% depending on your yearly sales.
With these numbers, you're telling me you couldn't go better than a 6% transaction fee?
Using Square..
and loving it! 2.7 across the board and no credit checks or hassle. Given that 90% of your cabbies don't have what you call stellar credit and 99% have smartphones , this is a no brainer to me.
Captive audience
Businesses that may or may not choose to take cards get offered attractive rates.
Services mandated by law to take cards probably don't get offered nice deals.
(Credit card companies: the one thing in the world that can make me feel sympathy for our local cab drivers.)
So
They should just look at it as punishment for their feet dragging before :)
Really, the issue is the medallion system and unwanted monopolistic practices it creates.
When medallions are bought, sold and traded for $100,000 a piece just to operate one cab, there's a problem with the industry. That's not licensing, nor even regulation; it's a government/corporate sponsored partnership to weed out competition they don't want.
This may sound like a dumb
This may sound like a dumb question, but I don't understand to whom they're paying the 6% transaction fee. If it's to the credit card companies than 6% seems very low. I say this because I work for a major retailer and sales associates are encouraged to solicit our proprietary credit cards because it is less profitable when customers use a 3rd party card due to the transaction fees. I forget the exact numbers but I've heard figures between 25 to 28% being quoted.
Boston Cabs, highest rate in the nation, unfair to riders
Someone needs to make a bunch of stickers that say "Boston Cabs, highest rate in the nation, unfair to riders" and start placing them next to these stickers. I stopped using Boston cabs when the last time I used one and tried to pay by credit card, the cabbie got out of the cab pushed his way in the back seat where I was and canceled my credit card payment and changed it to cash. Since I didn't have any cash I had to walk to an ATM a few blocks away (he had our suitcases in his trunk).
I'm up for
And graphic artists in house?
You didn't call the police?
Why not? You were attempting to pay in a way that was legal and he forced himself into your space (assault) and then held your bags for ransom (theft).
or at least report the guy
By plate number, medallion number etc.
1099?
The credit card take is a business expense, isn't it? Can the cabbies deduct it?
yep
http://www.google.com/search?q=credit+card+fees+de...
so how about that 16% fare
i'm no math major, but a 16% increase with a 6% fee on ONLY those that pay with credit cards is still a 10% raise in my book... more than i got in the last 3 years at my job. just saying.
Gas too
Don't forget about gas prices. In 2008 when they bumped the rate up 16%, gas prices had nearly doubled over the prior 3 years before that. They dropped to start 2009, but have essentially returned to 2008 levels again. So, if the cab is taking you 20-30 miles, about an extra $2 is being taken for gas as well over his pre-2008 rate.
Beyond that, your argument is the sort of squabbling among the poor that the banks are laughing over while they take 6% off the top...just because it's a cab. Cabbies hate passengers who use credit cards because it screws them. We hate cabbies that point this out because it's not our problem...so some people wanna screw the cabbie in spite. Meanwhile, WE (cabbies and passengers included) are all in the SAME boat arguing over who has to bail the water while the banks on the yacht go strolling by laughing all the way to...the bank?
Hardly anyone takes a Boston
Hardly anyone takes a Boston cab 20 or 30 miles. 20 miles would get you from downtown to Concord; 30 to Marshfield.
And?
The rest of us have increased gas/supplies/banking/everything else costs as part of doing our businesses too. And most of us haven't gotten raises to account for this.
Why are cabbies special?
This is what I'm talking about
Why can't cabbies be special? Why can't we fight for THEM to be the first ones to break out of the squalor we find ourselves in as a whole? Maybe the rest of us would follow. Why do we have to pull them down into the slop that you feel the rest of us have found ourselves in?
The question should be why haven't the rest of us got raises, not why should they be dragged down to the same hell as the rest of us.
Because
the whole country's economy is fucked?
In order for me to get a raise, Medicaid payments would have to go up. Where's that money going to come from?
(Yeah, I know, from not invading countries for no reason, but...)
Tax revenue
You know...from taxi cabbies getting paid better.
stiff the tip
I generally try to pay with cash if I have it because I know the fees add up for the cabbies. I think though if I saw a driver with this sticker I'd specifically pay with credit card. Also if for some reason I am paying with credit card and the driver harangues me over it (which almost always happens) that is a surefire way to lose your tip.
unfair?
Paying for your road wear and sucking your pollution from the poorly maintained, horrible-fuel-economy V8 engines is unfair to bicyclists. We do a lot of the payin', and you do all the wearin' and tearin' of the roads.
While your subsidized ass is riding around wearing down the roads, meanwhile, the city's bike sharing program doesn't get a dime of tax money, which is not only unfair, but for some strange reason, our "bike friendly" mayor is proud of this "self-sufficiency", even though it results in a smaller deployment and thus less successful system. You'd think something that encourages exercise, encourages/enables tourism, encourages people to not use road-wearing cars (and busses)...would be a clear A-OK for some city spending, right?
MBTA riders doing the right thing and taking public transit are paying for the tunnels you use every day to earn your money (whose tolls you love to bitch about) is pretty unfair, too.
No, Hubway doesn't get a dime of tax money
Possibly because it got $3.5 million in tax money.
Extra plus one to Adam for
Extra plus one to Adam for that.
Holy Hubway Batman
From the city's website (Adam's link)
Hubway is completely funded by grants totaling $4.5 million including $3 million from the Federal Transit Administration (FTA), $450,000 from the Boston Public Health Commission (BPHC) and $250,000 from the Metropolitan Planning Organization’s Congestion Mitigation and Air Quality (CMAQ) grant program...Currently, 11 sponsorships have been secured for Hubway worth $1.5 million over three years including over $600,000 from New Balance, and Boston Bikes will continually seek more.
You've got to be kidding me - I was wondering how they were going to make money - that's $6 million divided by 600 bikes or $10k per bike - before user fees. What a racket. And yet no money for (fill in the blank of your favorite municipal service we no longer have).
ugh
waste of my tax money. Our country is bankrupt and all we can think about is giving millions to subsidize bikes. sigh.. and we wonder why we're bankrupt.
That's 3.5M in capital
That's 3.5M in capital startup costs.
Operating costs are from fees only.
So here's an
itemized list of the following taxes, fees, and other legal requirements that one needs to pay or have to own and operate a bicycle on a public street:
License fee to operate your bicycle. $0
Registration fee for your bicycle. $0
Taxes paid on the fuel you buy to operate your bicycle. $0
Annual required compulsory insurance on your bicycle. $0
Perhaps you should reconsider who is really subsidizing who here.
While we are picking nits
I had to climb over snow piles and deal with icy sidewalks all last year, while the city plowed every street around.
My neighbors don't own a car, but they pay property taxes that support plowing to dry pavement ONLY on the roads.
and
the city still can't plow to the curb, or clean city owned property that isn't a road.
oh c'mon now, let's not start that misguided line of argument
Firstly, I'm not sure what Brett is thinking bringing this up- doesn't seem germane to me.
However the "Bikes don't pay for the road" is complete garbage in a couple of ways.
The wear and tear that a bike creates on the roads is negligible compared to a car ( 10x to 20X less heavy), therefore the maintenance costs for a road used by cars vs by bikes is exponentially bigger.
MOST of the taxes that pay for MOST of the roads come from general revenue (sales, property and income taxes).
An analysis:
http://www.uspirg.org/home/reports/report-archives....
Not to mention that most bicyclists both own a car and bike, so pay excise, registration and insurance fees. The ones who bike exclusively are probably still subsidizing car owners though their property, sales and income taxes. I'm OK with that because even though I don't own a car, I use one from time to time, and I also want roads for ambulances, fire trucks etc.
I personally would love to buy insurance for my bicycle in case an underinsured motorist or a hit and run motorist injures me or damages my bike. Unfortunately in the regulated MA market that product is not offered. I'm always skeptical of this argument from drivers though, I mean really how much damage can a 200 lb bike plus rider do to a 3,000lb steel vehicle vs the opposite?
Organization to oversee
Organization to oversee licensing of bicycles: none
Organization to oversee registration of bicycles: none
Government defense of the means of production for fuel for my bicycle: farm subsidies (from my income tax)
Proportional damage possible through negligent operation of my bicycle vs negligent operation of my car: small.
Brett, aren't you being a little bit shortsighted?
So... if your home catches fire or you have a heart attack you would prefer that those polluting vehicles like fire engines and ambulances NOT come to your rescue?
Maybe it is the photo ...
But that sticker doesn't make any sense to the customer anyway, unless they are both from around here and aware of what it refers to.
Nowhere on the sticker does it say that this 6% processing fee is associated with credit card use(based on the photo).
Allow all businesses to
Allow all businesses to charge one lower rate for cash payments and one higher rate for electronic payments (that cost the merchant a surcharge). Problem solved - incentivize it and don't punish everyone for the convenience that many would happily forgo if given the choice of a cheaper service.
Gas Stations do that now
Or some of them do.
non-big-chain only
I believe the only gas stations allowed to offer a lower price for cash are ones that are not affiliated with big-name oil companies.
No, the Obama credit card
No, the Obama credit card act/law whatever allowed everyone to use this kind of pricing.
Before, Visa/Mastercard were allowed to ban it.
Same with minimums. Yes, small stores everywhere had $5 minimums, but those were "illegal" in that they could lose their credit card license.
Im in California right now, and even Shell now has 2 prices, one for cards, one for cash.
Don't forget the real issue
They got a 16% raise to help cover the 6% they "lose" on only a fraction of transactions.
The real issue the cabbies have with credit cards is a paper record of fares paid and tips rendered.
I think an analysis of reported tips before and after the card readers went in is in order - if only to "prove" that tips rose when the card readers went in.
Howcome I never see it elsewhere ?
Thanks for the info, I didn't know the law was changed.
And apparently, none of the big name gas stations knows either, because I NEVER have seen a Shell/Gulf/Exxon station in Massachusetts offer a discount for paying in cash.
Dumb Question here.....
How much to cab drivers make a year and how much income tax would they have to pay on those tips?
Lets say they gross 45K including 4K in tips
or 25K with 2K in tips?
or 115K with 11K in tips?
I'm not a cabbie
Sorry, if that question was directed at me--I didn't mean to imply that i had anything to do with the business. My post was meant as an observation of a private motorist--I never see, when just driving around in my car sans medallion or livery plate, any gas stations with big oil company names offering cash discount.
Ballpark?
Pete - I think I've read that operating costs for a cabbie are in the range of $125 bucks a day (I think about $90 to rent the cab plus gas) and gross receipts including tips are double that maybe a little less than double - it's not a lucrative job - especially if that's all you do. I think the answer is somewhere between the first two choices - $25k-$45k and you have to work a lot of hours to make that. We can all knock them - but they do work hard for the money.
If that's all their income and depending on family situation etc. they would pay little or no income tax - basically this would put them in the bottom half of earners and about 46% of Americans pay no federal income tax. Mass tax may be a little different - but it will still be negligible.
It might be your fault because...
You are at least partially responsible for voting in (or not voting out) politicians who uphold what are essentially taxi cab cartels via an extremely limited system of egregiously expensive cab medallions.
In other cities such as DC (well, before a select few special interests lobby for them to follow this same misguided, anti-consumer path) - Cabs can be cheap and plentiful
Boston's legislation likes to micromanage as much as they can, and it leads to unforeseen consequences - such as cab customers not understanding why cab fares are so expensive (limited cab licenses keeping out competition), or why cabbies hate accepting cards so much (do the "fare hikes" that are *meant* to cover this just mean more ability for the medallion holder to charge higher rent to the cabbie? Most likely - thus the complaints)
Bikes vs Cars
I love that the comments on just about every posting on UH somehow gets to be about Bikes vs Cars.
...well, either that or Whole Foods.
As a small business owner I
As a small business owner I hate to pay the credit card processing fee anywhere from 2.5 - 4% of every transaction I process. This comes along with the additional fees I have to pay the credit card company or card servicer to have the cc processing machine in my business along with the additional fees I have to pay to my online processing company to process the transactions that happen online and since 90% of my customers book over the phone or online it will by default be a credit card based business.
The point is if you want to get A PAYING CUSTOMER you have to take credit cards FULL STOP. I can't exactly tell a corporate customer to hit the ATM and bring in the cash before I'll book their event.
As others have pointed out we are a cashless society it isn't going to change anytime soon.
Suck it up and for once give service with a smile, maybe you'll get a bigger tip.