On a 9-8 vote, vows to find an alternative for the former Hi-Lo site that won't turn Hyde Square into a gentrified pocket of rich white people, which it says Whole Foods would do, Jamaica Plain Patch reports.
yeah, it must be exhausting for you. how irritating that the people who live in Hyde Square would like to have a voice in this discussion that would radically change the face of their neighborhood.
To comment anonymously on a board. Why don't you actually choose an online identity and then maybe I'll care about what you might have to say about MY neighborhood?
Now there are two or three of me on the site, one of whom apparently likes to eat boogers? Um...I prefer the two-bite brownies. My point being--I don't need to know the actual identity of everyone on UH but for purposes of discussion, it's nice to know who you're talking to and whether it's one Anon or five different ones. But carry on as you like.
I'm the dude who lives NEXT DOOR to the Hi Lo and shopped there daily. I'm also the homo walking around the neighborhood with the pugs. If you want to "see the face of hyde square," here I am. Come say hello.
It's going to bring even MORE white folks into the 'hood, driving out all the diversity.
Want to keep all those crackers out? Shoot up a school, burn a few cars. You know, keep it real. Then when White Foods pulls out you can sqaut in the empty store and complain about the lack of development in "the community". Guess whose fault that will be? Whites.
Yeah...because not wasting my time "signing up" to appease people like you, just so you won't call me a troll, makes my opinions useless?. I don't understand why some of you are so obsessed with whether someone has a screen name or not. Does it really make a difference. I live near Hyde Sq too, have for years. And you are not the "face of Hyde Sq"...hahahaha. Sorry "Pugdaddy"...just because you have a cutesy lil screen name doesn't make your opinions any better or you any less of an anonomous troll than the rest.
I'm consistently me. You "anon" can be any number of trolls who go out of your way to troll. Clearly, you use Universal Hub enough to post comments, so why wound't you make an account to be consistent?
To me, and to most, all you "anon"s are the same person, troll. Why? Because you can be any number of people... Your points aren't more or less valid, but just more suspect. You're like the person on Yelp who posts I LOVE THIS PLACE or I HATE THIS PLACE DUR DUR DUR and only has 1 post. Your shit is suspect. You can't pin them back to one account.
Consistent? Going out of my way to read a message board ? Again...I don't feel the need to come up with some cute little screen name to post an opinion. Sorry...I'm not joing your club asshat. My name is Pete. I live next to Zesto's on Boylston. I'm a bearded brown haired man, 6ft, 215lbs, full sleeves, I ride a yellow bike. Look for me and say Hi! Is that enough for you fuckwad or should I include my phone number?
My name is Ray, I live just around the corner from Bon Savor, I'm buzzed-clean 6'5, 250-pound white boy whose one back piece makes your sleeves look like something from a henna sleepover party and my Surly regularly passes your slow ass on various roads and trails in JP. If I see you again, the first thing to come out of my mouth won't be "hi." You want to go cursing out your neighbors (the guy with the pug, really?), fine, but just don't be surprised when your neighbors are suddenly struck with the desire to shove a cantilever brake up that thing you're lounging on whilst Sunday driving the little yellow cracxi around the neighborhood. Be well.
My name is Arturo el Magnifico. I'm a long-bearded 6'9 500 pound bear-puncher whose total body holographic makes your back piece look like you fell asleep on the funny pages. I regularly pass your bent flea-market Surly like you have been hit by a disabling stroke and if I see you again you will not be able to understand my brave curses because of doppler shift. You want to go pretending you're a tough guy on the internet, fine, but don't be surprised if you become a new meme of ridicule.
Ray..don't be one of those tough guys behind a keyboard! They're a dime a dozen! I was only telling him what I looked like so I wouldn't be "so anonomous" to him. I wasn't trying to come off like a hard ass with my big back tattoos and cool bike. My "neighbor" called me a troll and claimed my opinion on the matter we were discussing was useless...so I replied in kind & refered back to him with a little cuss word..hope your virgin ears weren't too offended. Matter of fact, according to Pugdaddy..if you don't sign up and use a screen name then you're just as much of a troll as me and your opinion is shit. Now, you said if you "see me again" ?...so I'm assuming then that you've seen me in the neighborhood? (you'll have no problem finding me soon enough, I'll be shopping at Whole Foods), feel free to try to try to assault me with your little brake! Word of advice Ray, be careful when threatening people you don't know with violence on the internet, especially when they live in your neighborhood. A little trash talk & defensive name calling is one thing...felony assault and battery is another. Wise up!
Hahaha...now thats hilarious! Well, I'm certainly no Hipster. I'm in my 40's...I've lived in various parts of JP over 10 years..I've had my sleeves since before it was fashionable & most JP "hipsters" were still pooping in there diapers (perhaps even Ray?). I ride my non-fixie bike locally so I don't have to drive my car to get somewhere a mile away....I don't wear glasses at all & my pants fit comfortably loose! Ha! look, I'm even more non anonomous now...do I still need a screen name...geesh!
My name is Salinger. I am 5'8 with a beard and a pony tail. I like to wear ironic t-shirts and wear trendy hats. I am a perpetual student and community organizer but am sustained by a trust fund. I enjoy JP's diversity and grittiness, except when it interferes with the arrival of Whole Foods - then I am a free market capitalist who thinks its time for the Latinos to either start eating cabbage and leek griddle cakes or get out of my neighborhood. I think me, Pete, Ray and Pugman should ride our bikes and fight over who is more representative of JP.
It's also an uninformed movement based on a false premise. The Globe did a report a few weeks back that showed that WF is not more expensive than the Hi-Lo and other local grocery stores.
That Globe comparison conveniently left out two little food groups - produce and meat. I know from experience that the prices are not even close to comparable.
in that, new Whole Foods stores raise local property values to levels that are often unaffordable for people of color and immigrants, forcing them to leave the area. this is NOT a difficult concept to understand. the question of differences in price of products offered by Whole Foods vs. Hi-Lo is irrelevant and misses the more important point.
furthermore, last time i checked, white people made up about 50% of the population in JP. official records will confirm this fact, and that percentage is growing. before trying to turn this into some kind of race war, get your facts straight.
Whole Foods stores raise local property values to levels that are often unaffordable for people of color and immigrants, forcing them to leave the area.
Gee, the one near my house doesn't seem to have any impact - despite being dropped into a majority minority and EPA Environmental Justice community. Now we are hearing the same old same old about the green line extension ... because regional trends mean nothing, of course.
It would be nice if you went beyond speculation, realize that "not difficult to IMAGINE" is not the same as "not difficult to UNDERSTAND" and actually provided some direct evidence for your claims here. It isn't difficult to understand that you could easily do so, given the number of Whole Foods stores that have opened in the area in the last decade - corrected for general area real estate prices, of course.
And what idiot doesn't want their property values to rise? It's a community and self investment.
I can see renters worried they might be pushed out, but homeowners have a bigger vested interest in property values.
If renters are worried about rising values and rising rents, they need to join the rent's to damn high party and lobby their representatives for solutions (higher density, non luxury construction, ect).
Picking a fight with whole foods is a non topic, hurts their position, and is ultimately counterproductive.
Cambridge is currently in the process of gutting and renovating the public housing right next to the Whole Foods on Prospect, since the public housing was already nicer than what some of the taxpaying neighbors pay ridiculously high market rates for, but Cambridge is committed to... I'm not sure what, but I guess the ethnic poor need additional enticement to deign to live in Cambridge, where many young MIT and Harvard professors and scientists can't afford to live.
3 Whole Foods stores in Cambridge to change the city. Once Rent control went away in 1995-6, Cambridge became more affluent and white. Property values skyrocketed. People who live there now are likely childless and/or don't seem as likely to send their kids to Cambridge Public schools. The people I know who grew up in Cambridge live in Somerville, Everett, Arlington or beyond.
Rent control was so not the answer, especially when you consider that the mayor of Cambridge was living in a rent controlled apartment and then when it disappeared promptly bought a $350k condo ( seemed like a fortune at the time).
And if this council did somehow force one party to breach the agreement, the next move would likely be a lawsuit for tortious interference against these people.
I read things like this and this is the type of thing that makes me want to leave Jamaica Plain. Generally speaking, I like where I live. There are some things I would change, but no place is a utopia. But, when I see stories like this, I have to think that all of the time and resources spent worrying about a grocery store opening could be used for more serious issues.
No one forced Hi-Lo to close, and no one forced the owner of the property to sign a lease with Whole Foods...but they did. I don't know, but it just seems that this is all a very large waste of time. I can't even believe that I am writing in about this.
Picking and choosing who can and can't operate in a area, unless there's a serious environmental or public health concern, shouldn't be any part of local, state or federal government.
They can and should offer incentives if the community is looking to guide a development area, but they need to be broad and across the board so as not to effect one particular enterprise.
If HF finds it to be in it's best interests to open this store, people need to put up or shut up.
I don't see anyone from the community coming forth with plans to use the space and create much needed jobs. Only complaining about boogymen and voodoo.
Amen to that, brother. We should be complaining about our public transportation system, our dirty streets, and our crumbling infrastructure!
Replacing one grocery store with another is hardly big news. And it's shocking to me that people think gentrification WILL happen...it already has! The place has been expensive since at least 1994 (when we were priced out of central JP to the Rozzy edge). Look at the cost of single-family houses in Hyde Square -- in the 600 thousands. Good grief. Is Whole Foods gonna push the prices up to -- the 700 thousands?
You're not alone in feeling like the Whose Foods/Whole Foods debate is doing no good for JP. If you haven't seen this website and petition, check it out: http://www.jpforall.org
Sign it, like the facebook page, and send it on to your friends!
Wow, it is incredibly sad that all of this effort is being wasted on fighting a super market rather than fighting for more affordable housing. If the neighborhood council is genuinely concerned about low income people being forced out of the neighborhood, fighting about what brand of super market goes there is absurd. The neighborhood is ALREADY full of hippsters and yuppies. Wholefoods is comming TO them, not bringing them with. This is really shocking. The cynic in me says that this vote was more about the people voting trying to posture themselves as having cred rather than an actual concern for the residents.
The Whose Foods folks ARE the ones advocating for more affordable housing. For the past 40 years they've been on the front lines of ensuring that JP remains diverse and affordable. I heard numerous pro-gentrification supporters at one of the JPNC meetings say that JP already has too much affordable housing.
Then you know what? They're doing a crappy job because it is barely affordable and according to these same folks, all it takes to shatter the Latino community in JP is a g.d. upscale health food supermarket. How the heck do you legislate diversity or--for that matter--affordability? I remember JP when it was "affordable"--it was also much shabbier and a lot more dangerous. Take your pick.
I have been at every JNPC meeting about Whole Foods, and not a single speaker who bravely stood up in that hostile atmosphere said that JP has too much affordable housing. The Whole Foods supporters I know -- and there are many! -- have also worked hard for affordable housing and all of the other good things about JP that keeps it diverse. We love this community, too, and we need more grocery stores! And Hyde Square needs a successful anchor store, or it will be completely taken over by check cashing stores and pizza joints in another 5 years.
Is this the beginning of the end of the JPNC? Weighing in with harsh language on something absolutely irrelevant, even though the council is split down the middle? This is a profoundly frivolous application of neighborhood organization. What's next, issuing a fatwa about fair trade coffee? Voting to disallow seasonal decorations on Centre street unless all conceivable faiths are graphically represented? Is JP going to drive out the middle and become forever a collision of the boutique and the ghetto?
If the result of this is that instead of Whole Foods (which some people seem convinced is White Foods) they get a dollar store in that space, the JPNC might as well fold up shop.
Neighborhood councils were started by Kevin White as an adjunct to his political organization and to blunt independent neighborhood associations. Some areas of Boston rejected them.
In the end, it's the elected officials who should be held accountable if Whole Foods is blocked, but residents should question whether the JPNC serves any positive purpose.
These people don't have grounds to stop this private business transaction from happening. The Hi-Lo property owners don't care as long as they get the money they want...and Whole Foods isn't going to let a very tiny minority voice in the community stop them from opening. The JPNC does not represent the true voice of all of JP as a whole and when Whole Foods opens it's doors the 15 protesters standing outside with there little signs will be overshadowed by the groups of JP residents that will show up at the grand opening to check out the new store and shop. Hopefully it rains that day on the protesters! I will watch and laugh! :)
And if I hear one more person make the ignorant claim that Hi-Lo was cheaper than other grocery stores, I'm going to sit down with them, pull out a few boxes of receipts and go through remedial math with them.
agreed this is beyond embarrassing for the JP community. Communities want to be business friendly and promote business, yet they are doing this sorta crap. It just shows that big business is not welcome in JP, and even if its not a 'big business' if this community group is any indication of what kind of fight a business may have by trying to open in JP.
I'm tired of these busybody community groups trying to control the masses. Its a form of apartheid (by true definition), where a smaller group of people force decisions on a larger group of people. I could even throw the race card on top of this too, as it is clear that this is all motivated by race.
This happens all around boston with active community groups. The BackBay is notorious for this. Yeah the backbay looks nice because of it but its also not very business friendly, just ask the candy shop on Boylston that was told to remove their outdoor furniture because it didnt match the rest of decor of the backbay. Ludicrous.
How can they "force" Whole Foods to pull out? There is nothing illegal going on here, it's a private business transaction, all this group can do is agree to bitch and complain about it. They can't do anything legally to stop WF from opening.
Should they decide to move into JP? Will they be "acceptable"? Jesus Christ, it's a fucking grocery store, they all suck! The Hi-Lo was shithole and as someone who has bemoaned the loss of many a great Boston shithole, this was not one of them. A casual glance at some of the people fighting Whole Foods in JP on Facebook reveals to me that most of them were from Somerville and Cambridge!! Isn't there a war or two going on that these morons with an overabundance of self righteousness can complain about?
Funny how Hi-Lo suddenly became a shithole the day WF announced they were moving in. Before that, Hi-Lo was a jewel of Jamaica Plain's diversity. Apparently, there's a fine line between funky and fecal, and it's drawn by organic free trade endive.
Whole Foods makes an effort to support local farmers and does not sell GMO foods, but all you can think about is chipring snide remarks chock full of overtired buzz words. Okay, we get it, you don't give a rat's ass about environmental issues and local farmers. Enjoy eating your genetically modified apples crossed with fish eyes, moron.
Whole Foods sells the same "Conventionally grown" apples as every other grocer. Except Shaw's doesn't use the "buzzword" conventionally. Also, from Whole Foods own CEO;
"store's chief executive will probably want to eat his words after admitting that, alongside the organic carrots and bags of granola, the shops "sell a bunch of junk"."
Whole Foods doesn't give two shits about local farmers or environmental issues. Ever bought one of their pastries or pre-made meals? Very environmentally friendly, those plastic containers, no?
I don't buy pastries at WF, but that's cute. I'm talking about apples, celery, spinach and the like. If you don't know that WF offers produce from local farms as well as other countries; organic as well as conventional options, then you obviously don't shop there. Next!
It's not "suddenly" a shithole. Hi-Lo has always been a dump. I never saw it as a "jewel of Jamacia Plains diversity"..just a shitty grocery store. In the words of Harry Truman..."You can't polish a turd"
Harry Truman said "The Turd Stops Here", or words to that effect. I'm not aware that he ever expressed an opinion on either the efficacy or desirability of polishing turds.
Instead of putting their credibility on the line perhaps it would have been better to poll the residents of JP to see whether there is a favoring or not Whole Foods taking over the Hi-Lo site.
It is unfortunate that they have set themselves up as Luddites when what they oppose is a fundamental improvement to the area. To claim that it is not a good fit is to dismiss and implicitly denigrate the people who have invested in improving their homes, don't pollute the neighborhood with trash, or noise from boom boom cars, look for people to beat up to prove their gang worth, rob park users walking their children along the SW Corridor, let their dogs walk off leash threatening other people and dogs, etc.
For the love of Pete JP is full of people who don't care, worse, want to tear down the neighborhood. Here is a business that will add value to the neighborhood.
I would expect the hysteria against Whole Foods to come from anti-urban folks who believe that cities should be nasty, violent and gross.
should a popular vote determine what free enterprise opens?
It's one thing to make sure they meet certain reasonable regulations and community standards. It's another to individually vote on your whims per business/owner/ect.
When Whole Foods opens, there will be a poll every single day. If you like Whole Foods, shop there. If you don't, go some place else. If they don't make any money, they will close and a new place will move in. If they do make money, it's only because the people of the neighborhood voted for it by choosing to spend their money there.
You can't be racist against a white person. Racism is about power and as a whole white people continue to hold all of the institutional power (Wall St., Congress, media outlets, etc.). Discrimination is a entirely different thing.
Not in a good way. As a homeowner in JP, I haven't paid any attention to these goofballs in the 7 years we've been here. Now they have my attention and I will make a point to oppose them at every opportunity in the future. I plan to find out who voted against Whole Foods and make sure everyone knows about it. If this vocal minority of nitwits manages to scuttle this (which I highly doubt), they are going to be pariahs to every JP resident that isn't brain dead or a professional victim.
I believe Whole Foods is the only supermarket so far to sign on to work with this fair food campaign, which Trader Joe's and Stop and Shop, among others, have refused to do.
is that the JPNC has no real and tangible facts to base their opposition to Whole Foods on.
Clearly, the burden of proof here should be on the JPNC to defend their claims beyond a reasonable doubt, and not on Whole Foods to be responsible to refute the JPNC's unsubstantiated claims.
Not me. But, I am a capitalist. Here's a tip smelly hippie (since we're stereotyping and all): Money IS power. The power to buy things. If you don't have the power (money) to buy the property that Hi-Lo occupied, then you can forget about telling the owner what to do with it as long as it conforms to local laws. So, you can cry about it all you want, but there is nothing more you can do about it. That's the way the world works brah. You can deal with it or move to a commune. Don't like Whole Foods, don't shop there.
It would be too small to serve the local population. If you want to support local agriculture, the best approach is a grocery store that intentionally looks for locally sourced produce. I wonder, is there such a store, one that might be willing to open at this very location?
Seeing how a modern supermarket probably ships in more produce a week, than the property's size would be able to produce in a year, I don't think that's such a hot idea.
Points for thinking outside the box, but infeasible
be put to better use as a compost dump. Does that work for you? You seem to think you should have a say in what other people can do with their property.
The reason Whole Foods wants to set up shop, is because there are already people in JP who want to spend money there. It's not just the power that Whole Foods has by virtue of the corporate balance sheet. It's the power of a neighborhood that has enough money and desire to spend it on Whole Foods' offerings.
So when the dirty hippies come out of the wood work to call us conservatives, they really just illustrate that they fail to get the way our economy works, and they fail to get that it is their very neighbors who are making JP attractive to Whole Foods. That said, there is a valid argument to be made regarding gentrification crowding out working class residents. Whole Foods is a symptom, though, not the cause. As somebody else has suggested, it would be far better to place effort on other economic justice (trying for some hippy street cred.) issues like housing and transportation.
I am so tired of people beating this dead horse. It seems to be a tiny sliver of vocal residents who are all up in arms to prevent WF from coming to Hyde Square. I certainly didn't see flyers on this meeting and frankly I'm shocked by the non-constructive, negative and narrow-minded approach taken by the opponents of the market, not to mention the assumptions made that the Latino community is a. not interested in or deserving of higher-quality food and b. Is not resilient enough to respond to this issue on their own. We've heard already that there are local businesses eager to fill the niche left by Hi Lo. We know that WF will provide over 100 jobs in the community and enjoys a reputation--unions or no--as an excellent employer. I've enjoyed the debate but no it's just pissing me off. Where were these folks when landlord greed drove Bella Luna and the Milky Way out? Please...I hate to sound like a snot, but...get a life.
The JP "progressives" are showing their true colors. Prior to Whole Foods, they would preach about diversity and how great it is living in an urban environemnt and how much more enlightened they were comparted to those living in the suburbs. Now they are decrying the "ghetto" part of JP with the noisy low riders and trash and gang issues, and they only saving grace are those yuppies who have moved into such a desolate place and have made it livable. And they only thing they ask for is some truffle oil and double green smoothies.
"Massachusetts ranks nearly dead last — third from the bottom nationally — in having enough supermarkets with fresh, nutritious food, according to a report to be released today by the Massachusetts Public Health Association."
The report (which you can read in full here) specifically mentions Jamaica Plain as one of the neighborhoods that needs more grocery stores.
How will pushing Whole Foods out of JP contribute to solving this problem?
Gimme a break, most of the people I've seen complaining about Whole Foods are the same people who swarmed into JP and started the condo boom in the first place. After the dust settles they'll drop into Whole Foods for coffee beans or whatever and all will be well. JP is not and never was a place of real racial mixing, its just as balkanized as the rest of the city. If you're against gentrification then sell your condo at a loss to a sleazy landlord and get your white, high income butt outta there. Sorry that the market research based appearance of Whole Foods once and for all shatters the myth that JP is a funky/gritty artist enclave.
This vote really should have no effect, there are no zoning or major permitting issues.
It's not an issue of democracy - the zoning and permitting laws are democratically enacted by our elected officials - but an issue of whether the rule of those laws is followed. We all depend on the law and its enforcement in our daily lives. The people who own Whole Foods are entitled to the same dependence, not arbitrary blocking of business activity for social engineering and political purposes.
If Whole Foods pulls out because of stymieing and strong-arming from City Hall, those who organized this movement for their own electoral purposes - Sanchez and Arroyo - should be held accountable at the polls. Felix, Jr. is up for reelection city-wide this year. He won't be one of my four votes. I'd say that with Sanchez's hypocrisy in moving from Armstrong Street in Hyde Square to verry gentry Moss Hill, it's high time he had a challenger who won't shoot down 100 jobs.
It's also time that some other elected officials took a stand for 100 jobs and to remove the blight that an empty store will be. Matt O'Malley, I'm looking at you first, but also at Sonia Chang-Diaz, John Connolly, Steve Murphy and Ayanna Pressley.
You still won't say who you're working for? This whole story is just tiresome and has been fairly well handled by comments above, and yet you're still dragging "Dirty" Sanchez and "Ain't his Papi" Arroyo into this. You either had the Spiderman villain origin story and one of those two guys beat you up and took your lunch money as a child (and you therefore spend your days seeking revenge) or you have a vested interest in getting rid of them. Whatever.
And if anyone thinks the zoning laws in this city are the result of or are implemented in the spirit of a democratic process, they really need to get treatment for encephalo-tergum syndrome. In the end if local politicians, smelly hippies, non-profiteers, community rabble-arousers, toothless townies, tea-baggin' in-breds, Fountainhead-clutchin Libertarians or freemarket orphan-organ salesmen are against Whole Foods (that's WF not HF, which I guess would be Hole Foods, which is kind of gross) it doesn't mean a thing.
If the mayor doesn't want it, they're fucked until they provide the proper campaign donations. And that's all that matters.
I'm working for whoever is against Arroyo this year, and Sanchez next year.
That's because I'm against poverty pimps and those who want to suppress good commercial development with 100 jobs in order to social engineer a neighborhood for narrow racial electoral purposes, along with their allies who want to knock out the competition.
Poverty pimp or "professional poverty pimp" is a pejorative label used to convey that an individual or group is benefiting unduly by acting as an intermediary on behalf of the poor, the disadvantaged, or some other "victimized" groups.
Those who use this appellation suggest that those so labeled profit unduly from the misfortune of others, and therefore do not really wish the societal problems that they appear to work on to be eliminated permanently, as it is not in their own interest for this to happen.
I get why some of JP doesn't want Whole Foods. They should try and find space in Roslindale or Hyde Park. Say what you want (and I'm sure you will), but those two neighborhoods have a lot of great things happening. People just don't realize it.
the new tanning salon coming in on Centre St. How exactly is that good for JP diversity?
Why don't we come together and protest shitholes that prey on the poor people and immigrants this group supposedly protects? Let's boot those check cashing places and rent-a-centers in Egleston and Jackson, not a company who is going to create good jobs with good benefits.
Why are people celebrating, for the lack of a better term, ghetto glorification? Why is it that gentrification is the dirty word here? Stopping WF ain't gonna stop gentrification. That train left the station a looong time ago. The fact is, JP needs a good grocery store. That stop and shop is an abomination, and city feed and harvest don't cut it for everyday shopping. I'm personally tired of having to drive to Dedham or West Roxbury or Dorchester to get decent produce. JP is one of the biggest neighborhoods in Boston and we don't have a good grocery store. That is what the problem is here- and the people that want to stop something from coming in that JP so desperately needs is actively hurting JP. Period.
Are you freakin' kidding me? Where? How about another nail salon, hair salon, pizza place (because 6 isn't enough), check cashing, rent a center, or whatever else crap ass thing we have. Oh, I wonder if the new psychic on Center street will add jobs or enhance the area. Useless.
At this point, with no more Veloria or June Bug, I'd welcome a Starbucks with open arms and wallet. Why? Because if two LOCAL businesses couldn't stay open in this area because of horrible landlords, maybe a business with ample backing will.
Who's Paul Berkeley, what else does he run and why should I care? (I could Google it but I'd probably just end up surfing porn.) Enlighten me on Great Kaz-nac!
He's the head of the Allston Civic Association (Allston's JPNC) that led a recent vote to something like 9-8 against Stone Hearth Pizza opening in Allston.
Is it wrong to question or be opposed to unregulated capitalism?
I'd love for the the pro whole food do-gooders to show some data on how a whole foods WILL NOT speed up the process of gentrification of JP. So far they've only provided personal experience. I'd argue that the burden of proof is on WF and them. Show people how WF will benefit the community. Also I believe that the high student population in the areas that Whole Foods now resides is the reason those areas have not been gentrified. I have no data, but I'm open to it, if you'd like to provide some.
BTW I enjoy shopping for meat at those WF. It's expensive, but good and I am able to afford what little I buy. I can't say for certain that all the other residents of my neighborhood or Hyde Square's can say the same. I guess the PRo WF advocates might say "let them eat beans!"
Why does being in favor of a private business entering an agreement with another private business regarding the future of a private piece of property have to be a 'do good' issue?
There are many businesses where there are special privileges granted by the government such as broadcast TV and radio, commercial fisheries, etc... where there is a legitimate active role for the government to be involved acting in a role as the representative of the 'community' as a public domain resource (frequencies, fish, etc..) is partially privatized. This situation isn't one of them, so there's no actual need for WF to kowtow to the nebulous 'community' except for the fact that people with specific axes to grind seized the opportunity.
Like every single other real business, the community at large will vote on the success of the venture with their wallets. Why didn't the community get to 'vote' on Zon's becoming a different restaurant? Why didn't the community get to 'vote' to override the Milkyway/Bella Luna rent increase and keep that business there? Why didn't the community get to 'vote' on Triple D's becoming the Alchemist, then whatever is now? Given the existence of Stop and Shop a short walk away, this isn't an issue of access to basic staples, so the only differences I see are the ethnic/political ones. Or I guess people want there to be fewer jobs in the neighborhood?
Pro WF do gooders who want to bring people jobs, while those in the anti-WF camp want to take away peoples jobs??? What?
Sure, it’s ethnic/political and it’s also about class issues. I don’t see why these are any less important then the others that are often looked at when there’s a new business, like noise traffic ,etc.
low crime rates
good schools
libraries
quality housing stock
interesting architecture
parks
good and safe public transportation
variety of restaurants and bars
cultural institutions
finally, Whole Foods
So why not promote crime and degrade schools to stop gentrification?
Comments
saga
and the saga continues.. sigh.
yeah, it must be exhausting
yeah, it must be exhausting for you. how irritating that the people who live in Hyde Square would like to have a voice in this discussion that would radically change the face of their neighborhood.
It must be exhausting...
To comment anonymously on a board. Why don't you actually choose an online identity and then maybe I'll care about what you might have to say about MY neighborhood?
not to nitpick
But "sally" is pretty anonymous to me too.
Unless you sign in with a real name, or link as a way to know who you are outside of the tubes, you're still, for all intent and purposes, anonymous
-Anon²
I eat my boogers
This isn't much of an online identity.
So...
Now there are two or three of me on the site, one of whom apparently likes to eat boogers? Um...I prefer the two-bite brownies. My point being--I don't need to know the actual identity of everyone on UH but for purposes of discussion, it's nice to know who you're talking to and whether it's one Anon or five different ones. But carry on as you like.
I'm not anonymous.
I'm the dude who lives NEXT DOOR to the Hi Lo and shopped there daily. I'm also the homo walking around the neighborhood with the pugs. If you want to "see the face of hyde square," here I am. Come say hello.
Radically Change the Neighborhood?
Could you be specific - as in how putting in a grocery store where there was a grocery store before "radically changes the neighborhood"?
It's going to bring even MORE
It's going to bring even MORE white folks into the 'hood, driving out all the diversity.
Want to keep all those crackers out? Shoot up a school, burn a few cars. You know, keep it real. Then when White Foods pulls out you can sqaut in the empty store and complain about the lack of development in "the community". Guess whose fault that will be? Whites.
AnonTroll Trolls
More trolls trolling... Lovely and useless.
Yeah...because not wasting my
Yeah...because not wasting my time "signing up" to appease people like you, just so you won't call me a troll, makes my opinions useless?. I don't understand why some of you are so obsessed with whether someone has a screen name or not. Does it really make a difference. I live near Hyde Sq too, have for years. And you are not the "face of Hyde Sq"...hahahaha. Sorry "Pugdaddy"...just because you have a cutesy lil screen name doesn't make your opinions any better or you any less of an anonomous troll than the rest.
Atleast
I'm consistently me. You "anon" can be any number of trolls who go out of your way to troll. Clearly, you use Universal Hub enough to post comments, so why wound't you make an account to be consistent?
To me, and to most, all you "anon"s are the same person, troll. Why? Because you can be any number of people... Your points aren't more or less valid, but just more suspect. You're like the person on Yelp who posts I LOVE THIS PLACE or I HATE THIS PLACE DUR DUR DUR and only has 1 post. Your shit is suspect. You can't pin them back to one account.
Are you new to the internet? ;)
Consistent? Going out of my
Consistent? Going out of my way to read a message board ? Again...I don't feel the need to come up with some cute little screen name to post an opinion. Sorry...I'm not joing your club asshat. My name is Pete. I live next to Zesto's on Boylston. I'm a bearded brown haired man, 6ft, 215lbs, full sleeves, I ride a yellow bike. Look for me and say Hi! Is that enough for you fuckwad or should I include my phone number?
Pete, you're a jackass
My name is Ray, I live just around the corner from Bon Savor, I'm buzzed-clean 6'5, 250-pound white boy whose one back piece makes your sleeves look like something from a henna sleepover party and my Surly regularly passes your slow ass on various roads and trails in JP. If I see you again, the first thing to come out of my mouth won't be "hi." You want to go cursing out your neighbors (the guy with the pug, really?), fine, but just don't be surprised when your neighbors are suddenly struck with the desire to shove a cantilever brake up that thing you're lounging on whilst Sunday driving the little yellow cracxi around the neighborhood. Be well.
Ray, you're a Femtobrain
My name is Arturo el Magnifico. I'm a long-bearded 6'9 500 pound bear-puncher whose total body holographic makes your back piece look like you fell asleep on the funny pages. I regularly pass your bent flea-market Surly like you have been hit by a disabling stroke and if I see you again you will not be able to understand my brave curses because of doppler shift. You want to go pretending you're a tough guy on the internet, fine, but don't be surprised if you become a new meme of ridicule.
This Whole Foods controversy
This Whole Foods controversy is driving a wedge through the hipster community. This talk of violence amongst the biker gangs is distressing.
Ray..don't be one of those
Ray..don't be one of those tough guys behind a keyboard! They're a dime a dozen! I was only telling him what I looked like so I wouldn't be "so anonomous" to him. I wasn't trying to come off like a hard ass with my big back tattoos and cool bike. My "neighbor" called me a troll and claimed my opinion on the matter we were discussing was useless...so I replied in kind & refered back to him with a little cuss word..hope your virgin ears weren't too offended. Matter of fact, according to Pugdaddy..if you don't sign up and use a screen name then you're just as much of a troll as me and your opinion is shit. Now, you said if you "see me again" ?...so I'm assuming then that you've seen me in the neighborhood? (you'll have no problem finding me soon enough, I'll be shopping at Whole Foods), feel free to try to try to assault me with your little brake! Word of advice Ray, be careful when threatening people you don't know with violence on the internet, especially when they live in your neighborhood. A little trash talk & defensive name calling is one thing...felony assault and battery is another. Wise up!
HIPSTER FIGHT!
Be sure not break each others horn rim glasses!
Hahaha...now thats hilarious!
Hahaha...now thats hilarious! Well, I'm certainly no Hipster. I'm in my 40's...I've lived in various parts of JP over 10 years..I've had my sleeves since before it was fashionable & most JP "hipsters" were still pooping in there diapers (perhaps even Ray?). I ride my non-fixie bike locally so I don't have to drive my car to get somewhere a mile away....I don't wear glasses at all & my pants fit comfortably loose! Ha! look, I'm even more non anonomous now...do I still need a screen name...geesh!
Well, I'm certainly no
So you're no hipster, but you have hipster-tat cred?
My name is Salinger. I am
My name is Salinger. I am 5'8 with a beard and a pony tail. I like to wear ironic t-shirts and wear trendy hats. I am a perpetual student and community organizer but am sustained by a trust fund. I enjoy JP's diversity and grittiness, except when it interferes with the arrival of Whole Foods - then I am a free market capitalist who thinks its time for the Latinos to either start eating cabbage and leek griddle cakes or get out of my neighborhood. I think me, Pete, Ray and Pugman should ride our bikes and fight over who is more representative of JP.
Wow. This is totally motivated by race and class.
It's also an uninformed movement based on a false premise. The Globe did a report a few weeks back that showed that WF is not more expensive than the Hi-Lo and other local grocery stores.
Note to white folk - you're not wanted in JP.
And a Masarati is not more
And a Masarati is not more expensive than a Ford. Someone did a study.
That Globe comparison
That Globe comparison conveniently left out two little food groups - produce and meat. I know from experience that the prices are not even close to comparable.
They left out how Hi-Lo had
They left out how Hi-Lo had cheap, rotting & fly infested produce....and crappy old meat cuts!
yes, it is about race
in that, new Whole Foods stores raise local property values to levels that are often unaffordable for people of color and immigrants, forcing them to leave the area. this is NOT a difficult concept to understand. the question of differences in price of products offered by Whole Foods vs. Hi-Lo is irrelevant and misses the more important point.
furthermore, last time i checked, white people made up about 50% of the population in JP. official records will confirm this fact, and that percentage is growing. before trying to turn this into some kind of race war, get your facts straight.
Evidence and Data?
Gee, the one near my house doesn't seem to have any impact - despite being dropped into a majority minority and EPA Environmental Justice community. Now we are hearing the same old same old about the green line extension ... because regional trends mean nothing, of course.
It would be nice if you went beyond speculation, realize that "not difficult to IMAGINE" is not the same as "not difficult to UNDERSTAND" and actually provided some direct evidence for your claims here. It isn't difficult to understand that you could easily do so, given the number of Whole Foods stores that have opened in the area in the last decade - corrected for general area real estate prices, of course.
It may not be the store itself that would raise taxes
but if the Whole Foods company seems to think they will make money off of a JP store, then the gentrification process is already underway.
Exactly
And what idiot doesn't want their property values to rise? It's a community and self investment.
I can see renters worried they might be pushed out, but homeowners have a bigger vested interest in property values.
If renters are worried about rising values and rising rents, they need to join the rent's to damn high party and lobby their representatives for solutions (higher density, non luxury construction, ect).
Picking a fight with whole foods is a non topic, hurts their position, and is ultimately counterproductive.
Whole Foods pushes out immigrants?
Cambridge has three Whole Foods stores -- Prospect St, River St, and Fresh Pond. Have their stores changed the ethnic makeup of those neighborhoods?
Cambridge
Cambridge is currently in the process of gutting and renovating the public housing right next to the Whole Foods on Prospect, since the public housing was already nicer than what some of the taxpaying neighbors pay ridiculously high market rates for, but Cambridge is committed to... I'm not sure what, but I guess the ethnic poor need additional enticement to deign to live in Cambridge, where many young MIT and Harvard professors and scientists can't afford to live.
It took more than just
3 Whole Foods stores in Cambridge to change the city. Once Rent control went away in 1995-6, Cambridge became more affluent and white. Property values skyrocketed. People who live there now are likely childless and/or don't seem as likely to send their kids to Cambridge Public schools. The people I know who grew up in Cambridge live in Somerville, Everett, Arlington or beyond.
Ugh...
Rent control was so not the answer, especially when you consider that the mayor of Cambridge was living in a rent controlled apartment and then when it disappeared promptly bought a $350k condo ( seemed like a fortune at the time).
jesus h. christ
will this never end? are they really going to force a contract break?
No.
And if this council did somehow force one party to breach the agreement, the next move would likely be a lawsuit for tortious interference against these people.
Honestly?
I read things like this and this is the type of thing that makes me want to leave Jamaica Plain. Generally speaking, I like where I live. There are some things I would change, but no place is a utopia. But, when I see stories like this, I have to think that all of the time and resources spent worrying about a grocery store opening could be used for more serious issues.
No one forced Hi-Lo to close, and no one forced the owner of the property to sign a lease with Whole Foods...but they did. I don't know, but it just seems that this is all a very large waste of time. I can't even believe that I am writing in about this.
This is exactly the sort of crap
That gives liberals and progressives a bad name.
Picking and choosing who can and can't operate in a area, unless there's a serious environmental or public health concern, shouldn't be any part of local, state or federal government.
They can and should offer incentives if the community is looking to guide a development area, but they need to be broad and across the board so as not to effect one particular enterprise.
If HF finds it to be in it's best interests to open this store, people need to put up or shut up.
I don't see anyone from the community coming forth with plans to use the space and create much needed jobs. Only complaining about boogymen and voodoo.
Amen to that, brother. We
Amen to that, brother. We should be complaining about our public transportation system, our dirty streets, and our crumbling infrastructure!
Replacing one grocery store with another is hardly big news. And it's shocking to me that people think gentrification WILL happen...it already has! The place has been expensive since at least 1994 (when we were priced out of central JP to the Rozzy edge). Look at the cost of single-family houses in Hyde Square -- in the 600 thousands. Good grief. Is Whole Foods gonna push the prices up to -- the 700 thousands?
@Bookerman (and others)
You're not alone in feeling like the Whose Foods/Whole Foods debate is doing no good for JP. If you haven't seen this website and petition, check it out: http://www.jpforall.org
Sign it, like the facebook page, and send it on to your friends!
Sad
Wow, it is incredibly sad that all of this effort is being wasted on fighting a super market rather than fighting for more affordable housing. If the neighborhood council is genuinely concerned about low income people being forced out of the neighborhood, fighting about what brand of super market goes there is absurd. The neighborhood is ALREADY full of hippsters and yuppies. Wholefoods is comming TO them, not bringing them with. This is really shocking. The cynic in me says that this vote was more about the people voting trying to posture themselves as having cred rather than an actual concern for the residents.
Inspiring
The Whose Foods folks ARE the ones advocating for more affordable housing. For the past 40 years they've been on the front lines of ensuring that JP remains diverse and affordable. I heard numerous pro-gentrification supporters at one of the JPNC meetings say that JP already has too much affordable housing.
Oh really?
Then you know what? They're doing a crappy job because it is barely affordable and according to these same folks, all it takes to shatter the Latino community in JP is a g.d. upscale health food supermarket. How the heck do you legislate diversity or--for that matter--affordability? I remember JP when it was "affordable"--it was also much shabbier and a lot more dangerous. Take your pick.
Absolutely false
I have been at every JNPC meeting about Whole Foods, and not a single speaker who bravely stood up in that hostile atmosphere said that JP has too much affordable housing. The Whole Foods supporters I know -- and there are many! -- have also worked hard for affordable housing and all of the other good things about JP that keeps it diverse. We love this community, too, and we need more grocery stores! And Hyde Square needs a successful anchor store, or it will be completely taken over by check cashing stores and pizza joints in another 5 years.
Beginning of the end?
Is this the beginning of the end of the JPNC? Weighing in with harsh language on something absolutely irrelevant, even though the council is split down the middle? This is a profoundly frivolous application of neighborhood organization. What's next, issuing a fatwa about fair trade coffee? Voting to disallow seasonal decorations on Centre street unless all conceivable faiths are graphically represented? Is JP going to drive out the middle and become forever a collision of the boutique and the ghetto?
If the result of this is that instead of Whole Foods (which some people seem convinced is White Foods) they get a dollar store in that space, the JPNC might as well fold up shop.
Neighborhood councils
Neighborhood councils were started by Kevin White as an adjunct to his political organization and to blunt independent neighborhood associations. Some areas of Boston rejected them.
In the end, it's the elected officials who should be held accountable if Whole Foods is blocked, but residents should question whether the JPNC serves any positive purpose.
These people don't have
These people don't have grounds to stop this private business transaction from happening. The Hi-Lo property owners don't care as long as they get the money they want...and Whole Foods isn't going to let a very tiny minority voice in the community stop them from opening. The JPNC does not represent the true voice of all of JP as a whole and when Whole Foods opens it's doors the 15 protesters standing outside with there little signs will be overshadowed by the groups of JP residents that will show up at the grand opening to check out the new store and shop. Hopefully it rains that day on the protesters! I will watch and laugh! :)
JPNC vote wasn't unanimous
9-8, so it's not like everybody there is on a rampage against Whole Foods.
Embarrassing
Wow...embarrassing.
And if I hear one more person make the ignorant claim that Hi-Lo was cheaper than other grocery stores, I'm going to sit down with them, pull out a few boxes of receipts and go through remedial math with them.
agreed
agreed this is beyond embarrassing for the JP community. Communities want to be business friendly and promote business, yet they are doing this sorta crap. It just shows that big business is not welcome in JP, and even if its not a 'big business' if this community group is any indication of what kind of fight a business may have by trying to open in JP.
I'm tired of these busybody community groups trying to control the masses. Its a form of apartheid (by true definition), where a smaller group of people force decisions on a larger group of people. I could even throw the race card on top of this too, as it is clear that this is all motivated by race.
This happens all around boston with active community groups. The BackBay is notorious for this. Yeah the backbay looks nice because of it but its also not very business friendly, just ask the candy shop on Boylston that was told to remove their outdoor furniture because it didnt match the rest of decor of the backbay. Ludicrous.
This a clear case of
This a clear case of Hipsterism (or Hipsterphobia). The old Latino boy network is clearly discriminating against the hipsters and yuppies. Outrageous.
Hipsters were part of the opposition
If you look at their videos, you will see that a lot of the Whose Foods opponents are young white hipsters.
Instant Classic!
Comparing the Whole Foods in JP controversy to Apartheid is probably the best UHub comment of all time!!
LOL its a stretch but by
LOL its a stretch but by CLEAR and BASIC definition (not a social definition, as compared to South Africa) it is very similar!
If Demoulas were coming in rather than Whole Foods ....
... would any of this be happening?
If JPNC really forces Whole Foods to pull out, I hope they have another chain lined up to move in immediately.
How can they "force" Whole
How can they "force" Whole Foods to pull out? There is nothing illegal going on here, it's a private business transaction, all this group can do is agree to bitch and complain about it. They can't do anything legally to stop WF from opening.
Exactly! Will these morons fight Market Basket?
Should they decide to move into JP? Will they be "acceptable"? Jesus Christ, it's a fucking grocery store, they all suck! The Hi-Lo was shithole and as someone who has bemoaned the loss of many a great Boston shithole, this was not one of them. A casual glance at some of the people fighting Whole Foods in JP on Facebook reveals to me that most of them were from Somerville and Cambridge!! Isn't there a war or two going on that these morons with an overabundance of self righteousness can complain about?
Morons!
Funny how Hi-Lo suddenly
Funny how Hi-Lo suddenly became a shithole the day WF announced they were moving in. Before that, Hi-Lo was a jewel of Jamaica Plain's diversity. Apparently, there's a fine line between funky and fecal, and it's drawn by organic free trade endive.
educate yourself: it won't hurt, I promise!
Whole Foods makes an effort to support local farmers and does not sell GMO foods, but all you can think about is chipring snide remarks chock full of overtired buzz words. Okay, we get it, you don't give a rat's ass about environmental issues and local farmers. Enjoy eating your genetically modified apples crossed with fish eyes, moron.
Excuse me, but
Whole Foods sells the same "Conventionally grown" apples as every other grocer. Except Shaw's doesn't use the "buzzword" conventionally. Also, from Whole Foods own CEO;
"store's chief executive will probably want to eat his words after admitting that, alongside the organic carrots and bags of granola, the shops "sell a bunch of junk"."
Whole Foods doesn't give two shits about local farmers or environmental issues. Ever bought one of their pastries or pre-made meals? Very environmentally friendly, those plastic containers, no?
stick to what you know honey
I don't buy pastries at WF, but that's cute. I'm talking about apples, celery, spinach and the like. If you don't know that WF offers produce from local farms as well as other countries; organic as well as conventional options, then you obviously don't shop there. Next!
you love what you know
HL was nice for what it was, but comparatively to other enterprises (HF), it was a shithole.
Not Even!
It was a shithole* compared to the 7-Eleven down the street!
*If anything, this discussion is a success in that shithole has become the preferred adjective for Hi-Lo. These things amuse me.
It's not "suddenly" a
It's not "suddenly" a shithole. Hi-Lo has always been a dump. I never saw it as a "jewel of Jamacia Plains diversity"..just a shitty grocery store. In the words of Harry Truman..."You can't polish a turd"
Harry Truman said "The Turd
Harry Truman said "The Turd Stops Here", or words to that effect. I'm not aware that he ever expressed an opinion on either the efficacy or desirability of polishing turds.
whoever said it...it's true!
whoever said it...it's true!
Direct Democracy
Instead of putting their credibility on the line perhaps it would have been better to poll the residents of JP to see whether there is a favoring or not Whole Foods taking over the Hi-Lo site.
It is unfortunate that they have set themselves up as Luddites when what they oppose is a fundamental improvement to the area. To claim that it is not a good fit is to dismiss and implicitly denigrate the people who have invested in improving their homes, don't pollute the neighborhood with trash, or noise from boom boom cars, look for people to beat up to prove their gang worth, rob park users walking their children along the SW Corridor, let their dogs walk off leash threatening other people and dogs, etc.
For the love of Pete JP is full of people who don't care, worse, want to tear down the neighborhood. Here is a business that will add value to the neighborhood.
I would expect the hysteria against Whole Foods to come from anti-urban folks who believe that cities should be nasty, violent and gross.
Why on earth
should a popular vote determine what free enterprise opens?
It's one thing to make sure they meet certain reasonable regulations and community standards. It's another to individually vote on your whims per business/owner/ect.
there will be a poll
When Whole Foods opens, there will be a poll every single day. If you like Whole Foods, shop there. If you don't, go some place else. If they don't make any money, they will close and a new place will move in. If they do make money, it's only because the people of the neighborhood voted for it by choosing to spend their money there.
Hope They Enjoy...
Their new empty store front.
I had a dream
It's incredibly important to not let a particular race of people dominates a neighborhood.
That's really really racist!
But I'm talking about whites.
Oh, ok, carry on.
Racism
You can't be racist against a white person. Racism is about power and as a whole white people continue to hold all of the institutional power (Wall St., Congress, media outlets, etc.). Discrimination is a entirely different thing.
Racism.
You can't be racist against a white person? Possibly the most ignorant statement I have ever read.
Trololo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwGFalTRHDA
JPNC just got everyones attention
Not in a good way. As a homeowner in JP, I haven't paid any attention to these goofballs in the 7 years we've been here. Now they have my attention and I will make a point to oppose them at every opportunity in the future. I plan to find out who voted against Whole Foods and make sure everyone knows about it. If this vocal minority of nitwits manages to scuttle this (which I highly doubt), they are going to be pariahs to every JP resident that isn't brain dead or a professional victim.
I believe Whole Foods is the
I believe Whole Foods is the only supermarket so far to sign on to work with this fair food campaign, which Trader Joe's and Stop and Shop, among others, have refused to do.
http://www.ciw-online.org/101.html#cff
http://www.ciw-online.org/index.html
Gotta love the rush of right
Gotta love the rush of right wing free trade capitalists this subject brings out. Enough with this community activism crap - money is power!
Free Jamaica Plain from left wing kooks - what's good for Whole Foods is good for America!
The problem with this community activism
is that the JPNC has no real and tangible facts to base their opposition to Whole Foods on.
Clearly, the burden of proof here should be on the JPNC to defend their claims beyond a reasonable doubt, and not on Whole Foods to be responsible to refute the JPNC's unsubstantiated claims.
Who are you calling right wing?
Not me. But, I am a capitalist. Here's a tip smelly hippie (since we're stereotyping and all): Money IS power. The power to buy things. If you don't have the power (money) to buy the property that Hi-Lo occupied, then you can forget about telling the owner what to do with it as long as it conforms to local laws. So, you can cry about it all you want, but there is nothing more you can do about it. That's the way the world works brah. You can deal with it or move to a commune. Don't like Whole Foods, don't shop there.
I just think
That the old Hi-Lo location would be put to better use as a community farm. Why pay for food at all when we can grow it?
It would be too small to
It would be too small to serve the local population. If you want to support local agriculture, the best approach is a grocery store that intentionally looks for locally sourced produce. I wonder, is there such a store, one that might be willing to open at this very location?
Brilliant plan!
Seeing how a modern supermarket probably ships in more produce a week, than the property's size would be able to produce in a year, I don't think that's such a hot idea.
Points for thinking outside the box, but infeasible
I think the old anon homestead would
be put to better use as a compost dump. Does that work for you? You seem to think you should have a say in what other people can do with their property.
And let's add to this the power of the market
The reason Whole Foods wants to set up shop, is because there are already people in JP who want to spend money there. It's not just the power that Whole Foods has by virtue of the corporate balance sheet. It's the power of a neighborhood that has enough money and desire to spend it on Whole Foods' offerings.
So when the dirty hippies come out of the wood work to call us conservatives, they really just illustrate that they fail to get the way our economy works, and they fail to get that it is their very neighbors who are making JP attractive to Whole Foods. That said, there is a valid argument to be made regarding gentrification crowding out working class residents. Whole Foods is a symptom, though, not the cause. As somebody else has suggested, it would be far better to place effort on other economic justice (trying for some hippy street cred.) issues like housing and transportation.
Hi
You're not helping.
May I suggest the pen where we also keep the teahadists?
This has gotten ridiculous.
I am so tired of people beating this dead horse. It seems to be a tiny sliver of vocal residents who are all up in arms to prevent WF from coming to Hyde Square. I certainly didn't see flyers on this meeting and frankly I'm shocked by the non-constructive, negative and narrow-minded approach taken by the opponents of the market, not to mention the assumptions made that the Latino community is a. not interested in or deserving of higher-quality food and b. Is not resilient enough to respond to this issue on their own. We've heard already that there are local businesses eager to fill the niche left by Hi Lo. We know that WF will provide over 100 jobs in the community and enjoys a reputation--unions or no--as an excellent employer. I've enjoyed the debate but no it's just pissing me off. Where were these folks when landlord greed drove Bella Luna and the Milky Way out? Please...I hate to sound like a snot, but...get a life.
Cool, I can shop at Whole Foods in Dedham!
And send my money out of the city. Is that what JPNC wants? Really? What happened to shop locally?
The JP "progressives" are
The JP "progressives" are showing their true colors. Prior to Whole Foods, they would preach about diversity and how great it is living in an urban environemnt and how much more enlightened they were comparted to those living in the suburbs. Now they are decrying the "ghetto" part of JP with the noisy low riders and trash and gang issues, and they only saving grace are those yuppies who have moved into such a desolate place and have made it livable. And they only thing they ask for is some truffle oil and double green smoothies.
Report: Massachusetts needs more supermarkets
Did any of the JP anti-Whole Foods activists happen to read this story on the Globe front page a few days back?
Shortage of grocers plagues Massachusetts cities
"Massachusetts ranks nearly dead last — third from the bottom nationally — in having enough supermarkets with fresh, nutritious food, according to a report to be released today by the Massachusetts Public Health Association."
The report (which you can read in full here) specifically mentions Jamaica Plain as one of the neighborhoods that needs more grocery stores.
How will pushing Whole Foods out of JP contribute to solving this problem?
How about....
a Family Dollar? oh, that would be like saying 'you people are poor, here's some discount detergent and peanut butter'
or maybe
a Roche Brothers? oh, that would like saying 'what you want this to be the next WEST ROXBURY???'
how about
any empty storefront
there's already a Stop and Shop down the street, who the heck is going to move in there?
Family Dollar and West Roxbury
There's one right on Centre Street. Somehow, the sun continues to rise every morning.
A plague on both your houses!
Gimme a break, most of the people I've seen complaining about Whole Foods are the same people who swarmed into JP and started the condo boom in the first place. After the dust settles they'll drop into Whole Foods for coffee beans or whatever and all will be well. JP is not and never was a place of real racial mixing, its just as balkanized as the rest of the city. If you're against gentrification then sell your condo at a loss to a sleazy landlord and get your white, high income butt outta there. Sorry that the market research based appearance of Whole Foods once and for all shatters the myth that JP is a funky/gritty artist enclave.
Easy solution
This location will be known as Alimentos Enteros. Problem solved.
I wish I could
I wish I could upvote this comment the most .
Hold elected officials accountable
This vote really should have no effect, there are no zoning or major permitting issues.
It's not an issue of democracy - the zoning and permitting laws are democratically enacted by our elected officials - but an issue of whether the rule of those laws is followed. We all depend on the law and its enforcement in our daily lives. The people who own Whole Foods are entitled to the same dependence, not arbitrary blocking of business activity for social engineering and political purposes.
If Whole Foods pulls out because of stymieing and strong-arming from City Hall, those who organized this movement for their own electoral purposes - Sanchez and Arroyo - should be held accountable at the polls. Felix, Jr. is up for reelection city-wide this year. He won't be one of my four votes. I'd say that with Sanchez's hypocrisy in moving from Armstrong Street in Hyde Square to verry gentry Moss Hill, it's high time he had a challenger who won't shoot down 100 jobs.
It's also time that some other elected officials took a stand for 100 jobs and to remove the blight that an empty store will be. Matt O'Malley, I'm looking at you first, but also at Sonia Chang-Diaz, John Connolly, Steve Murphy and Ayanna Pressley.
Again with the politics...
You still won't say who you're working for? This whole story is just tiresome and has been fairly well handled by comments above, and yet you're still dragging "Dirty" Sanchez and "Ain't his Papi" Arroyo into this. You either had the Spiderman villain origin story and one of those two guys beat you up and took your lunch money as a child (and you therefore spend your days seeking revenge) or you have a vested interest in getting rid of them. Whatever.
And if anyone thinks the zoning laws in this city are the result of or are implemented in the spirit of a democratic process, they really need to get treatment for encephalo-tergum syndrome. In the end if local politicians, smelly hippies, non-profiteers, community rabble-arousers, toothless townies, tea-baggin' in-breds, Fountainhead-clutchin Libertarians or freemarket orphan-organ salesmen are against Whole Foods (that's WF not HF, which I guess would be Hole Foods, which is kind of gross) it doesn't mean a thing.
If the mayor doesn't want it, they're fucked until they provide the proper campaign donations. And that's all that matters.
I'm against them and the poverty pimps
I'm working for whoever is against Arroyo this year, and Sanchez next year.
That's because I'm against poverty pimps and those who want to suppress good commercial development with 100 jobs in order to social engineer a neighborhood for narrow racial electoral purposes, along with their allies who want to knock out the competition.
Keep up the great work--you
Keep up the great work--you have been all over this, and you've had it nailed from Day 1--
Poverty Pimps
Hah! I'm totally stealing that term.
And it is quite apropos here.
Completely not stealing it from me
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_pimp
John-W is right.
John-W is right. It's true that it's all about payola to the right person. Boston is especially difficult for some businesses, the ones with money.
Market Basket?
I know the space is small, but if they'd put a Market Basket there it would be great.
I get why some of JP doesn't
I get why some of JP doesn't want Whole Foods. They should try and find space in Roslindale or Hyde Park. Say what you want (and I'm sure you will), but those two neighborhoods have a lot of great things happening. People just don't realize it.
Wait, I'm confused about the movie
So the cops knew Internal Affairs was setting them up?
I'd much rather be protesting
the new tanning salon coming in on Centre St. How exactly is that good for JP diversity?
Why don't we come together and protest shitholes that prey on the poor people and immigrants this group supposedly protects? Let's boot those check cashing places and rent-a-centers in Egleston and Jackson, not a company who is going to create good jobs with good benefits.
Why are people celebrating, for the lack of a better term, ghetto glorification? Why is it that gentrification is the dirty word here? Stopping WF ain't gonna stop gentrification. That train left the station a looong time ago. The fact is, JP needs a good grocery store. That stop and shop is an abomination, and city feed and harvest don't cut it for everyday shopping. I'm personally tired of having to drive to Dedham or West Roxbury or Dorchester to get decent produce. JP is one of the biggest neighborhoods in Boston and we don't have a good grocery store. That is what the problem is here- and the people that want to stop something from coming in that JP so desperately needs is actively hurting JP. Period.
Tanning salon?
Are you freakin' kidding me? Where? How about another nail salon, hair salon, pizza place (because 6 isn't enough), check cashing, rent a center, or whatever else crap ass thing we have. Oh, I wonder if the new psychic on Center street will add jobs or enhance the area. Useless.
At this point, with no more Veloria or June Bug, I'd welcome a Starbucks with open arms and wallet. Why? Because if two LOCAL businesses couldn't stay open in this area because of horrible landlords, maybe a business with ample backing will.
Maybe you could learn to
Maybe you could learn to spell Centre street, and then get back to us.
Pedant.
Pedant.
Right on the main drag
on the side of the street with the Galway house. I was out running an errand and saw the signs.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, WAIT A SECOND!
Paul Berkeley runs the Jamaica Plain Neighborhood Council too?? When did THAT happen!?
wuh?
Who's Paul Berkeley, what else does he run and why should I care? (I could Google it but I'd probably just end up surfing porn.) Enlighten me on Great Kaz-nac!
Who's Berkeley?
He's the head of the Allston Civic Association (Allston's JPNC) that led a recent vote to something like 9-8 against Stone Hearth Pizza opening in Allston.
When did capitalism become the way the world works?
Is it wrong to question or be opposed to unregulated capitalism?
I'd love for the the pro whole food do-gooders to show some data on how a whole foods WILL NOT speed up the process of gentrification of JP. So far they've only provided personal experience. I'd argue that the burden of proof is on WF and them. Show people how WF will benefit the community. Also I believe that the high student population in the areas that Whole Foods now resides is the reason those areas have not been gentrified. I have no data, but I'm open to it, if you'd like to provide some.
BTW I enjoy shopping for meat at those WF. It's expensive, but good and I am able to afford what little I buy. I can't say for certain that all the other residents of my neighborhood or Hyde Square's can say the same. I guess the PRo WF advocates might say "let them eat beans!"
Do-gooders?
Why does being in favor of a private business entering an agreement with another private business regarding the future of a private piece of property have to be a 'do good' issue?
There are many businesses where there are special privileges granted by the government such as broadcast TV and radio, commercial fisheries, etc... where there is a legitimate active role for the government to be involved acting in a role as the representative of the 'community' as a public domain resource (frequencies, fish, etc..) is partially privatized. This situation isn't one of them, so there's no actual need for WF to kowtow to the nebulous 'community' except for the fact that people with specific axes to grind seized the opportunity.
Like every single other real business, the community at large will vote on the success of the venture with their wallets. Why didn't the community get to 'vote' on Zon's becoming a different restaurant? Why didn't the community get to 'vote' to override the Milkyway/Bella Luna rent increase and keep that business there? Why didn't the community get to 'vote' on Triple D's becoming the Alchemist, then whatever is now? Given the existence of Stop and Shop a short walk away, this isn't an issue of access to basic staples, so the only differences I see are the ethnic/political ones. Or I guess people want there to be fewer jobs in the neighborhood?
That’s exactly what I’m talking about.
Pro WF do gooders who want to bring people jobs, while those in the anti-WF camp want to take away peoples jobs??? What?
Sure, it’s ethnic/political and it’s also about class issues. I don’t see why these are any less important then the others that are often looked at when there’s a new business, like noise traffic ,etc.
lots of things speed up gentrification
low crime rates
good schools
libraries
quality housing stock
interesting architecture
parks
good and safe public transportation
variety of restaurants and bars
cultural institutions
finally, Whole Foods
So why not promote crime and degrade schools to stop gentrification?
Makes as much sense.
Why do you think there hasn't
Why do you think there hasn't been an uproar to improve JP Schools?
Because these same clowns know that if JP had good local schools, "gentrification" would speed up even more.
Progressives against progress. Fantastic.