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LaMattina: Nobody's going to make Hanover Street one way
By adamg on Sun, 02/13/2011 - 5:26pm
Matt Conti reports the councilor for the North End threw water on a North End Chamber of Commerce idea to stuff more tourists into the neighborhood by turning Hanover into another Charles or Newbury. LaMattina also discussed vexing Hanover issues, from double-parked trucks to selfish valets and taxis that just circle the block, at a recent residents association meeting.
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Comments
Make it a "no-way"
This will never, ever happen in a million years, but if they were to make a smart decision they'd allow deliveries up to a certain time of day, then make the whole street a pedestrian zone.
If they want the north end appear to be an Italian neighborhood, some "area pedonale" signs would do the trick.
Fire station is still a problem, though
If you set up tables and chairs in the middle of Hanover Street to make it a true traffic-free pedestrian way (even if only during certain hours), what happens when a fire truck needs to use it? That's going to be an issue as long as there's a fire station on Hanover.
Tables and chairs?
I wasn't picturing tables and chairs in in the street in my dream scenario. Just open space for people to walk. With exceptions for all emergency vehicles of course.
What is it with people named
What is it with people named "Sal" being idiots?
Although Tom over here is just as idiotic:
"Tom Schiavoni “I appreciate your willingness to stand up here. We don’t want to see so many people walking the streets after midnight. We want to maintain a safe district for families, retired and working people. The North End is telling you that you have to allow us to live here. If this becomes a transient neighborhood, it will become a crime zone.”
Thats right Tom, there's nothing safer than a totally empty street. Tom, ask your wife if she's more comfortable walking down a street with restaurant patrons, or a street with not a soul in sight.
Maybe Tom should move to a deserted cul-de-sac in a forest somewhere. Maybe he'll be surprised to find out that homes located on cul-de-sacs are more likely to be broken into than neighboring homes. Why? No traffic = no eyes on the street.
J for Jack*ss
I guess if Sal is an idiot and Tom is idiotic, then "J" must stand for Jack*ss.
Here is a question for "J": What type of "restaurant patrons" do you think walk around at 2 a.m. on the streets?
Answer: The type that walk around in Chinatown in the middle of the night.
Someone needs to wake up "J" a few times in the middle of the night. Though very good chance "J" has no job or life to wake up to in the morning anyway.
Only bad people out after midnight theory
What a load of crap. What year do you think this is - 1951? Actually, there was still nightlife in Boston back then ...
Go to a city in Italy sometime and see how busy the streets are with "evil night people". I know it's way outside your neighborhood and full of Europeans, but you could manage I'm sure.
Zombies
Oh good ... SwirlyGrrl is up for her daily dose of 'holier than thou' commenting.
It's amazing how everyone loves to tell North End people where else they can live. J wants to send us to some crime-ridden cul-de sac in the suburbs and now SwirlyGrrl wants to send us to Italy. Last time I was there, the Italians liked to sleep at night too.
Where do you live? Because I want to hand out your address to the night people that you love so much. This way, they can go to your street and party outside your window at 3 am in the morning.
Plenty Quiet in North Dakota
Plenty of jobs there, too, if you'd like. From what a friend of mine tells me, there's plenty of folks like yourself there who go to bed at 7am and expect their neighbors to do so, too.
And that's in a college town.
As for where I live, well, I didn't buy in the Back Bay for a reason, toots. When I did, I expected it to be a city with all the attendant noise, not a midwestern town that rolls up the sidewalks at 8pm. As it is, we have neighbors who are in and out all night - late shifts at hospitals, sound/lighting engineer for concerts (sometimes pulls my husband in to help), etc.
In your book, these productive people are all zombies and morally challenged for their nocturnal ways. Just hope you don't get sick in the middle of the night and have to go to the ER - these evil night people, covetous of the amenities that their compatriots enjoy in normal big cities and once enjoyed in Boston, will strip your clothes off and touch you! Then the servers will touch your food with zombie germs, too. BWAHAHAHA
But I'm the one who is moralizing, oh yes.
Swirly, the night time does
Swirly, the night time does bring both types of people. There's the college students who just like to stay up at night and there's the not so awesome people (and sometimes it is the same people, but as a college student (for a few more months), we don't always behave so well).
Now, the residence of the North End, maybe, just maybe they just don't want an active nightlife with all the noise and everything. Not every part of Boston needs to cater to people who stay up all night. Allston could use the change because there's lots of people who stay up all night anyway. Granted, there's also older Allstonians who was there before the place got so crazy, in this like, I have to give some sympathy. In the North End's case, it is still a residential neighborhood first and if the people there have no desire for that kind of neighborhood, I don't see the reason why they have to do what you think is best.
Currently Boston is very resistant to catering to college students, that's needs to change, but it doesn't have to be the North End. It also doesn't need your attitude either.
What type of "restaurant patrons" do walk around at 2 am?
College students.
Writers, artists, and other folks who set their own (frequently nocturnal) schedules.
People who work late or overnight shifts -- doctors, nurses, EMTs, cops, firefighters, truck drivers, etc.
Shouldn't the city cater to them too?
I absolutely agree that the
I absolutely agree that the CITY should accommodate those with nocturnal schedules. We in the North End are doing more than our share with many such establishments. Now it is time for other neighborhoods to step up to the plate. Any volunteers? No? I thought not.
Of course there are volunteers
There are quite a few people in Allston who would be more than happy to see later hours along Harvard Avenue.
And you folks have this large expanse of space just on the other side of the Greenway that would be ideal for late-night dining options.
Yes it should. Will it? No it won't
Not as long as you've got a state-appointed licensing board that insists on acting completely independently of the city and completely on a piecemeal basis (look at the stupid hodgepodge of closing times along Harvard Avenue).
Not as long as you've got groups like the Allston Civic Association insisting on suburban-style closing hours even in areas that are a) frequented by people who stay up late and b) populated by people who stay up late (again, look at Harvard Avenue).
Not as long as you've got a city whose idea of the "24-hour city" is an as yet unbuilt Innovation District located on the other side of anything.
Not as long as you've got restaurant owners in what are, at heart, residential areas insisting they should be allowed to open as late as they want (the North End).
What the city really needs to do is to set up some late-night zones in which restaurants can, if not by right, at least by some rational set of rules, open late.
Quincy Market/Financial District would be ideal - almost nobody lives there (well, yet), it's already known as a tourist/hangout place. Harvard Avenue. The Longwood Medical Area (for obvious reasons) and maybe even Brookline Avenue (all those new buildings have soundproofing above the retail space, right?).
And, yes, the "Innovation District;" might as well build it into that area right from the start, especially since the mayor's vision calls for little apartments occupied by absent-minded professor types who will probably be up all night anyway.
But this is Boston. It'll never happen.
Sharing the Zombies
It's true, the licensing board let the North End get out of hand with 90 alcohol licenses within less than a square mile (largest concentration in the state). Faneuil Hall/Quincy Market has plenty too, maybe 25-30 ... and they are mostly all 2 am.
The Seaport/Innovation District seems like a perfect spot. The Downtown/Financial District is not a bad location for a late night zone, including Downtown Crossing. Kenmore is where a lot of the zombie college students are up all night. And yes, Allston and JP have areas that are designed for late night activity. All these areas should have more late night licenses.
Even with all the gentrification, the North End has kept much of its gritty charm as a place to live and a place to visit. But there are so many other neighborhoods that could benefit from the late night activity. At this pace, the North End will turn into the French Quarter in New Orleans, a tourist trap to eat and drink, but a shell of a neighborhood where no one lives anymore (by choice).
Late night zones and distance
Seaport/Innovation district is currently in the middle of nowhere as far as residences go. It doesn't make sense to put late-night bars and restaurants so far from where people live. The T doesn't run, how are people supposed to get there and back? You want them to drive? If they even have cars?
People live in Allston and JP. There's historic business districts in both areas, with plenty of vacancies. Late night stuff should be in reasonable walking distance.
The current policies create a silly situation where there is a mass migration of patrons from one establishment that closes early to others that close later. And I don't need a clock to tell me when it's 2:15am because there is a mass exodus as everyone goes home at the same time. The partiers don't stop, they just take it to the street.
Better to keep them in the bars and restaurants. If this late night commercial activity strains public services then tax accordingly to pay for the upkeep.
French Quarter
Have you ever been there? Either you didn't get off of Bourbon Street, or you are triggering a "cultural meme" that everybody "just knows is true" that doesn't bear scrutiny.
Plenty of people live there - it is mostly residential. Off of the party streets, it is also amazingly quiet. Those few that live on the Bourbon Street, well, they don't exactly expect quiet or expect the city to change for them. That's what is known as effective zoning. All the more reason to revive the late night district over where people can get to it, but where few people live. Putting everything in Alston doesn't help people who work at MGH, Tufts, or Boston City much. (I say revive because, historically, Boston had plenty of night life in that area - um, Green Dragon anyone?)
We were surprised that even ONE block from Boubon Street....
... was much more sedate -- and two blocks away was mostly residential.
I used to have a job in which
I used to have a job in which I worked until 12:30am. I was usually hungry after work. I guess I was a scumbag pervert wandering the streets after hours? I mean, seriously, what kind of asshole eats at those hours? I guess the nurses that just got off their 12 hour shifts were also useless chinatown-types.
Someone needs to wake up "K " a few times in life. It seems you have no idea about how real people actually live. I recommend riding the blue line at 12:30am. Don't be scared of the brown people, maybe ask them why they're riding the T at that hour. Are they drunk? Are they going to a strip club? No, they just finished their second job and are trying to get home to sleep so they can wakeup at 7am for their first job. And since they have no fucking time to cook, they're likely to walk down the street to the 7-11 to get something to eat before passing out.
Of course, if it were up to you, Tom and Sal, there'd be a curfew, and these people would be breaking the law.
Depends
If you were walking through residential blocks randomly screaming just to hear your voice echo against the close-set buildings, or talking on your cell phone at the loudest possible volume - so that people inside trying to sleep can hear you not only through closed windows but the earplugs they've learned to wear - then yes, you were a scumbag asshole.
And FYI, there are several people in my building that work at the bars and restaurants and I rarely hear them when they come in late. As you note, they just want something to eat before they pass out. They're not the ignorant douches the neighborhood is looking to avoid - but you already know that, right? The late night workers are just a straw man so you can pontificate about people who DARE to want to sleep through the night even though they live downtown.
Why is it that people like
Why is it that people like “J” who have no idea about what is actually going on in the North End have no compunction about expounding at length on our situation and trashing respected long-time residents in the process? Most North End residents are not walking around after midnight during the week because they work for a living. If they are out late and run into trouble, they will seek help by calling on their neighbors, not the yahoos who are coming from Hanover Street. These people are so loud that it is hard to tell when someone is actually in trouble. Protection from the people who are urinating in our doorways - I think not! There are two kinds of people who tell city dwellers to move to the suburbs if they want a night’s sleep - those who already live in the suburbs and those who plan to return there after their partying days are over.
There are two kinds of people
Dingdingding! We have a winner.
Yeah thats right, nobody in
Yeah thats right, nobody in the north end who works for a living is awake after midnight. Everybody in the entire neighborhood has a 9-5 job. Every single one of them. Those waitresses and bartenders at the restaurants? None of them live in the area of course. And if they did, who cares? They're service people, it's like they don't exist.
I wonder where the staff from the 12:50am worcester train live. They get into south station at 2am. Of course, they're not hungry. And you wouldn't want them walking around on the street after hours.
Or to put it your way,
Why is it that people like “Therese” who have no idea about what is actually going on for people with service jobs have no compunction about expounding at length on our situation and trashing respected long-time residents in the process?
So the noisy hordes coming
So the noisy hordes coming from the high end places on Hanover Street with the $15 cocktails are actually tired service workers looking for a little sustenance after their labors? Sorry, "J", if you want to masquerade as an advocate for the working people of the city, you will have to do a little better than that. A lack of late-night watering holes is the least of our concerns.