People, Hi-Lo is closing. You can't make it come back.
But sure, go ahead, boycott Whole Foods, and go pay more for the same items at Stop and Shop and eat damaged produce. Then you'll be right that you can't afford to live in the neighborhood, only it won't be Whole Foods' fault.
It won't save the Hi-Lo. That horse is out of the barn.
I see a lot of people not wanting Whole Foods, but not a lot of alternative suggestions. What would people rather see in Hi-Lo's place?
And the whole "affordability" argument continues to be a red (organic, free-range) herring. Star Market charges more than Whole Foods for the same items in certain cases.
So, if any anti-WFers are reading this, what do you propose as an alternative?
save the fight for something more meaningful. By all means, do what you feel is right, but it just seems meaningless. It's all about choice. There is a Stop & Shop about a hundred yards down the road. WTF? The Starbucks comment is classic - way over dramatic. Whole Foods has humanely raised meat, organic fruit and vegetables. It costs a bit more for that (smaller farm suppliers can't compete with Stop&Shop mega suppliers).
The horse has left the barn, folks. City Feed has like 12 dollar sandwiches. Neighborhoods change, change again, and then change again.
I hope JP doesn't lose its character too - but i just don't see this as some harbinger of doom.
I nearly lost it when the sociologist said, "...the next thing is, I'm going to say it... Starbucks." Oh the horrors! If only I had such monumental problems as a Starbucks moving into my neighborhood!
Picketing Whole Foods and harassing those who work and grocery shop there is not good for the community.
Multiple Dunkin Donuts (and all their associated litter) in a neighborhood, that's just fine. But a Starbucks? whoa boy get the keys to the bomb shelter because the apocalypse is imminent!
So if there's still a market for a Hi Lo type market in Hyde Square, then one of these folks who's picketing should open one. I'm sure that there are smart, enterprising business owners who are seeing this as a huge opportunity for creating or expanding a Latin/Carribbean market that fill fill e space left by Hi Lo. But to try to make this into a huge culture war is ridiculous and futile. These are businesses, not public institutions. And to somehow assume that WF is incompatible with a neighborhood that includes Hispanic people is awfully limiting.
If you live in Hyde Square, Bromley-Heath will work as a nice counterweight to Whole Foods when it comes to property values. Making this an "us-versus-them" issue is counterproductive. If anything, WF is a much more inclusive grocery store than Hi-Lo ever was. I enjoyed shopping there the few times I went in, but also felt like I was in one of the dirtier Tiendas de Comesibles in San Salvador.
Isn't that kind of a contradiction, using memes and peace vigils in the same sentence? Please discontinue these logical fallacies, otherwise I'm never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down, never gonna run around and desert you, never gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbye, never gonna tell a lie and hurt you.
Ignoring those folks will just get me into practice for ignoring clipboard holders from "The Fund" who'll be setting up camp there once the protesters leave. Again, there's too much support for this project in JP for it to fail. Say what you will about those supporting it, but they live here too and, in some cases, own the businesses the anti-WF folks claim to be championing.
For those who haven't been following, a number of bloggers are currently talking about why they are not intending to boycott Whole Foods, organic supermarket chain par excellence. What's the backstory here?
The controversy over Whole Foods CEO John Mackey's anti-ObamaCare stance is now well into its third round. It all started with Mackey's August 11 op-ed in the Wall Street Journal. In it, Mackey argued that "the last thing our country needs is a massive new health-care entitlement that will create hundreds of billions of dollars of new unfunded deficits and move us much closer to a government takeover of our health-care system."
Government takeover of health care was PolitiFact's #1 Lie of the year (even bigger than "death panels".) It's a shame conservative Republicans have to introduce big lies into the debate in order to convince their stupid acolytes to support them.
This is why when any business wants to open in JP, we create a rigorous review of their political beliefs and only those business owners that check off all the boilerplate progressive beliefs (as developed by our two national political parties in an attempt to create reliable voting blocks) get to open up.
One guy got bounced because he tried to add a qualification to his position on school choice...but we put down our clipboards and showed him the door.
Every year, we re-poll our business owners to make sure their views haven't "evolved."
Just because I don't agree with the CEO of Whole Foods doesn't mean I won't occasionally shop there.
But just because I shop there doesn't mean I have to be silent when he spouts bullshit and conservative propaganda.
Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.
Conservatives don't have any real arguments that make sense, the only thing I hear from them is scare stories and lies.
Government takeover of health-care happened a long time ago, and people love it. It's called Medicare, and it already pays for the majority of health-care costs in the country. The rest is handled by government-subsidized workplace health benefits.
Its amazing how quickly anti-corporate progressives who value the diversity of their neighborhood turn into into conservative free market capitalists when tempted with flax seed oil, tofu burgers and Indiana drizzled cinnamon kettlecorn popcorn.
judge "diversity" by things (flax-seed oil vs. plantains) and stores (Hi-Lo vs. Whole Food) instead of by the people in their community. Last I checked, Whole Foods doesn't keep a team of Cossacks on payroll to launch pogroms on people who make less than $40,000 a year before it moves into a neighborhood.
I shop at Whole Foods regularly (not exclusively). Even though I'll miss being able to buy a couple (non-perishable) things at Hi-Lo that I haven't yet found elsewhere, the new WF store will be beneficial for JP, for the reasons already stated.
I know quite a few people who abhor the very thought of any corporate executive (or corporations them selves for that matter) making any type of money whatsoever. They proudly declare that they won't buy (you name it) from (insert corporation's name here) because that's a big, greedy corporation that does big business, greedy things. And they proudly shop at WF because you know...it's such a great place that wouldn't do anything like that. Then I watch the look on their faces when I remind them that WF is a very big corporation headed by a very-well-paid CEO who has been proven to do a some very greedy-corporate-CEO-type things.
but...you could also say "stuff white people like" is protesting against, and boycotting....wait for it....a freaking grocery store.
This is a business, not a public institution. I'm all about choice - and there is plenty of them on Centre street, from overpriced but homey Harvest, to bodegas, to ridiculously overpriced City Feed, to moderately priced but genetically modified Super Stop & Shops, to a moderately overpriced organic foods store.
Hi Lo sold out, and Whole Foods bought it. You act as if it's Walmart or something. Another vacant space next to Bella/Milky Way will be depressing.
Its amazing how quickly anti-corporate progressives who value the diversity of their neighborhood turn into into conservative free market capitalists when tempted with flax seed oil, tofu burgers and Indiana drizzled cinnamon kettlecorn popcorn.
Yeah - ain't it? ;-) The people lined up already on Centre street waiting for Whole Foods to open are the very ones who won't STFU about 'the diversity' in Jamaica Plain. I wonder if they'll be voting Republican now.
It's the people, not the stores. The funny thing is that I see people of all strokes shopping at Whole Foods and Trader Joe's in Brookline and in the Stop & Shop here. I don't think it will affect diversity in the slightest. Of course, you wingnuts can continue to freely ignore diverse areas as always and lock up the Ford Explorer in your gated community by the mall.
Hahaha this barb always works best because everybody in JP is exactly the same thinking the same things all the same time and so it's funny because they're all like this and now you're like, ooooohhh so they are not like that all the time, in fact they are sometimes different than how I always say they are and now I've got you every single person in JP being different than I've set you up to be.
A few years ago, Virginia Republicans passed a developer friendly bill mandating that each locality designate an “urban development area” in which medium-density construction would be permitted. It doesn’t require that higher density structures actually be built, but it does require that they be permitted. Similarly, it doesn’t require that mixed-use development be built, but it does require that it be permitted. Naturally, a conservative Virginia state legislator has teamed up with a local Tea Party group is looking to overturn this and has founded an outfit called the Campaign for Liberty in defense of stringent development restrictions.
Stephen Smith, who has a good post on this, seems surprised. But there’s really nothing surprising about it. Freedom-talk is an important influence in American rhetoric, but it—and especially its self-consciously antiquarian cousin liberty-talk—has nothing to do with any analytically respectable conception of freedom.
t would be more accurate to say that freedom and liberty talk don't necessarily have anything to do with an analytically respectable conception of freedom, and I certainly think Yglesias is right to call out opposition to more freedom in land use decisions. Nor does the story he flags surprise me. Growing up in Orange County, California, one learns rather quickly that cities dominated by Republicans regularly impose unnecessary restrictions on land use, pass petty laws about the hours one is permitted to walk on the beach, and generally engages in what can only be called a central planning model of economic growth.
The average suburban homeowner is a vocal proponent of property rights until the day when a nearby landowner wants to build an apartment complex on his property. Then the right not to live near renters is treated as sacrosanct.
Darling, did you see the photo of the anti-WF JP residents who attended the meeting? They were hardly hipsters. Save your hate for the appropriate thread.
If you want to live in an "affordable" neighborhood here's the best thing you can do: make sure no one else would like to live there (crime and filth are two good tools for this). When you work hard to make a neighborhood nice to live in, guess what, other people will want to live there too. With higher demand comes higher prices, that's just life. If you are forced to move out of your neighborhood once it becomes nice, I do truly feel for you (although I'm not sure how that happens to be honest). However, don't begrudge other people who want to move in and have the money to do so, and don't complaint that with the ever rising price of living in your nice neighborhood come pricier businesses to cater to the wealthy. Again, that's life. If its the evil corporations these people are really upset about, that falls flat, as JP already has a healthy corporate business community (e.g., I'm going to say it . . . Dunkin Donuts). Perhaps this is a group of people from Hyde Square that just woke up to the fact that the JP gentri-wave is coming, but they probably should have realized that when Domino's wasn't "allowed" to open over by Angel Memorial (note: inexpensive chain restaurants are another great tool to keep the nice factor in check).
This gets to something that I always think about. When I think about communities that have been anti-chain, I don't think about affordable communities. I think of Wellesley and other wealthy places watching over their 'character.'
I didn't hear one person last night who either shopped at Hi-Lo or grew up in JP mention the word chain. This is about losing a store that everybody in the community had a choice to shop at. Whole Foods doesn't offer that same choice so people want to organize to stop it while also figuring out a replacement. Low and moderate income people cannot afford to shop at WF and will not benefit from their products. And as one person did mention last night, HL was as much of a cultural social scene as it was a grocery store and WF is not.
I agree with this. Where do you live? I'm not benefiting from you living there and I don't have a choice to live there right now. I'd like to cancel your lease and propose a better use of your space. I don't like how you're using it now at all and I would like to vacate your apartment for a bit while I take the time to organize the community to figure out a replacement.
Now everyone has the choice to shop at Whole Foods which has an excellent selection of fresh produce. They also carry plenty of foods which are hard to find elsewhere... including wheat-free, dairy-free options which is great for people who have food allergies. What I don't get is if Hi-Lo opted to quit JP, then why aren't people protesting the owner of Hi-Lo? It was Hi-Lo's choice to leave, right?
I'm sure JP has other businesses which aren't affordable for everyone, does that mean they should be forced out of business? What the protesters seem to be making clear is that if you're of moderate income or better, then your kind isn't welcome in their part of the city. Talk about reverse snobbery!
This is just plain silly. I have lived in Hyde Square for over 7 years. When I first moved here, I checked out many of the local businesses, including the Hi-Lo. But here's the thing- HiLo was dirty, understaffed, and now is sold! They were not the victoms of some yuppy-corporate takeover - they sold! They didn't have a whole lot of particularly "special" groceries, nor were their prices particularly low when compared to Stop and Shop. Summing all of that up - I went there exactly TWICE, not buying something (since they didn't have what I needed) both times. In seven years.
This is not up for debate. Whole foods bought, Hi-Lo is sold, and it is not coming back. I, for one, am absolutely thrilled at the change. Whole foods, admittedly, doesn't offer some of the very specialized specifically Latin exports that Hi-Lo offered. This is true. But they DO offer choice - a new kind of choice - with many locally-sourced, organic, and other top-notch food choices (and food education) that hasn't previously been as readily available in a mass-market environment in JP (and the nearby Boston boroughs).
This is good news (great news?!) for the health of our community. I also strongly suspect that they'll be cleaning up the store and the lot (which was filthy, always empty, and had the WORST produce I have ever seen, (and I used to work in sub-Saharan Africa), creating jobs, bringing in shoppers from nearby Longwood, bordering Brookline, West Rox & Rosi, and doing a good degree of community outreach toward better nutrition. As both a JP resident and a doctor, I can really get behind that - particularly with a mindfulness that my Latino/a neighbors demographically are far more likely to suffer from obesity-related morbidity and mortality in our lifetimes. I disagree with the poster above who stated that, "Low and moderate income people cannot afford to shop at WF and will not benefit from their products." - this is total supposition and not based in fact. The bottom line is that all people benefit from a better quality food supply, and that the prices for staple items (vegetables, rice, dry beans, etc.) are pretty fair at WF!
I lived in Pittsburgh a while back, and while there, my husband actually comparison shopped for about 20 of our pantry staples (just price checking) at the local megamart, Whole Foods, and Trader Joe's. What he found may shock you: Whole Foods, as a whole, was the most economical. They were a few pennies more for some things (soy milk, meat, fish) and considerably less so for others (oat bran, frozen veggies, artichoke hearts (I love them), more). The thing about WF that makes it excellent is that they carry a range that no other of the "megamart" foodsellers does - everything from rice and dry beans and bulk peanuts to caviar and vegan mayonnaise substitutes - as well as everything in between. If one weren't in the market for caviar before, there is no reason to suspect that she will be with WF in town. But if one were buying cornmeal before, WF still has it, at a fair price.
There has been a huge number of folks here (and other forums) who have been espousing as gospel that WF is more expensive, without actually studying it. In fact, they sell many canned goods, fresh produce, dry pantry items, and more at quite competitive prices (and far less pricey than some of the other food vendors along Centre St...). Furthermore, they won't be the only gig in town - Stop and Shop is a 5 minute walk away. So are many smaller local Latin markets (including one with great Mexican candy at the end of my block!) - Rather than being about restricting choice, WF seems to be creating choice and providing a new niche to JP shoppers - if you find it is too pricey, walk away. But if you want a nice squash and locally caught cod, in addition to edible vegetables and inexpensive bulk beans, this just might be right for you, and that is no insult to the community.
What are you talking about? I blew up a copy of this photo and although it's difficult to tell the ethnicity/skin color of many of the attendees in the back, of those imaged cleary enough there are at least 25-33% who are pretty clearly latino or AA. Could be higher.
What a troll you are, anonymous coward.
(p.s. I think the JP-is-well-and-truly-gentrified train left the station about a dozen years ago.)
The angry emotions are the consequence of a more bottom-rock issue: the gap between those who can afford to shop at places like WF and Starbucks regularly(Like weekly to daily) verses those who can afford to shop at S&S and DDs. The WF and SB comments are tangential to how some long-time residents of JP feel that their neighborhood identity is slipping away and being replaced by what they feel is a white-washed consumeristic culture.
This is a consequence of the suburban to urban rush that has been occurring in many cities throughout our country. The urban lower class are being pushed out, either through property values going up, or seeing their local neighborhood culture be replaced with a hybridized interpretation of their culture as they see their long time staple stores be replaced with the "new."
People can nit-pick about how WF as cheaper prices/better value vs. GM foods at S&S, but it ignores the bedrock issue at hand. If my family income was under $30K a year, near the verge of using food stamps to scrape by, would WF be a practical place to shop?
"If my family income was under $30K a year, near the verge of using food stamps to scrape by, would WF be a practical place to shop?"
Again, it depends on what you're buying and anyone who makes under $30k a year knows how to make it stretch anywhere. My sibling did it with no help in Astoria, Queens, making less than $17K, but if you're uncomfortable with the Whole Foods, there's a Stop & Shop, Pimentel and other markets right down the street.
"being replaced by what they feel is a white-washed consumeristic culture."
Replaced by a consumeristic culture? People on their side of the argument consider Hi-Lo a "cultural institution." A store equated to culture. How is that not consumerist? That's like saying Zaftig's is an essential part of Judaism in Brookline. Stores and restaurants come and go, the people and the things they contribute make up the area's "cultural institutions."
As for the greater issue of cultural migration, this has occurred for decades. The Jews, Italians, Irish, Poles, Germans, Cantonese and Japanese left the cities in the 1950s and 1960s. Puerto Ricans, Cubans and Portuguese followed in the 1970s and 1980s. Then Brazilians, Albanians, Fujian Chinese, Vietnamese and Thai after them. Nobody lays hold to a city forever. Neighborhoods change, faces change, stores change. It's part of what makes living in a city so wonderful, but part of the reason why people who feel so insulated by those communities also leave when they start to change. The "suburban-to-urban" rush was borne from some of that change and from a younger generation's desire to embrace what their parents and grandparents abandoned. I find that inspiring, and not something to be mourned.
"...the gap between those who can afford to shop at places like WF and Starbucks regularly(Like weekly to daily) verses those who can afford to shop at S&S and DDs...."
As you mentioned, later on in the very same post, WF *does* have better prices on similar items, not to mention their own store brand which is a good value. It's more than a nitpick. I believe it was eeka who pointed out in a different thread that if you stroll the natural/organic aisle at stop and shop you will very often find the same items on the shelves *at a higher price* than at WF.
Plus DD and WF cost pretty much the same for the similar items, don't they? Big cup of coffee at Starbucks, about 2 bucks. Big cup of coffee at Dunkins, about 2 bucks. Fancy iced overly sweet high calorie drink with silly name at Starbucks, $4. Glorified Slurpee at Dunkin Donuts $4.
I don't buy the 'those who can afford to shop at' point in your post, unless I'm really really too dim to see the point you were trying to make.
What planet do you grocery shop on? Seriously. Or do you even do any of the grocery shopping?
I hardly ever set foot in the place - sure, junk food shit is cheap with surrender of your personal information, but take a look at the prices on staple foods some time.
I treat WF as a convenience store, since it is the closest grocery and I can send my kids there on foot or on bikes. Otherwise, its Market Basket or Foodmaster for price, Hannaford if I'm visiting my MIL.
Having teenagers and two jobs in the household means some late night trips to buy critical items that seem to vanish in a puff of metabolism. I will go to Stop and Shop if it is late at night and I'm only buying a few items.
I only buy a few things there because I have found that a gallon of milk or loaf of bread or dozen eggs or bag of potatoes or other staple item will be consistently much more expensive than anywhere else including the Whole Foods near my home. Buying a large grocery order is very costly, since they are really expensive for basic food items even if you get great price breaks on selected processed foods.
I used to work near JP, and the prices at the Stop and Shops were no different there than they were in Medford. Whole Foods prices don't vary much over the Boston area, either. My living in Medford is therefore irrelevant to the argument: Stop and Shop is a very expensive place to shop unless you only buy junk food. The Globe used to purchase a "standard basket" of groceries at different stores, and found this to be true as well.
Have you ever shopped at Whole Foods? Or do you know any poor people?
As we've gone over 28934798237 times on UH, Whole Foods does sell $50 truffle oil and crap, but they also have comparable prices on staples, better prices on better produce, and much much much better prices on stuff like meatless stuff that they do more volume of than other stores.
A family of one parent and one child making $30,000 a year and paying market rent gets $367 per month in food stamps. That'll buy a lot more than mac-n-cheese at any grocery store. If they have subsidized rent, live with relatives, whatever, they might get less, but then they'll have more money available for groceries.
One family I know, immigrants from India, spend about $100 per month on groceries for a family of 10. They mostly shop at Whole Foods, because it has the best prices on things like store-brand or bulk big bags of rice, garbanzos, cereals, spices, etc. They also do some shopping at Super 88. This family can tell you the price of everything they use at four or five different stores -- they don't have a lot of money and they like to eat well. Yes, this does require having time to be home and cook, which they do, but this family eats really really well for hardly any money. They make much less than $30K per year and there are 10 of them -- 6 adults and 4 kids.
Also, despite your image that only rich people could even possibly walk into Whole Foods, anyone is of course welcome to buy anything there. I work with a lot of families who make $6936 per year -- common DTA figure. Most of these families do things like go to Chuck E. Cheese once per month or so, order takeout a couple times a month, etc. Most also have cable. Splurging on some Whole Foods hot bar is cheaper than most takeout and much cheaper than going to Chuck E. Cheese, so it's bullshit that WF is financially out of reach for people on public assistance and with low incomes. Whether people are interested in going there or feel that it's a store that their sort of people go to is another issue, and I definitely support all businesses doing research about their local neighborhood and making sure to stock what local people want.
But screaming that no one can possibly afford to buy 89-cent cans of beans at Whole Foods is just not even logical.
It's amazing how little some of these people understand about how the world works. Knapp Foods clearly found it better for their bottom line to close Hi-Lo and rent the space. The idea that the "community" should have a say in that decision is ludicrous as long as it conforms to current zoning. The fact that Whole Foods even agreed to interview the Hi-Lo employees is generous to begin with. The complaints about rising property values pricing people out of the area is silly too. While I hate for someone to have to leave a place they love, that's life in the big city. There is no right to live in a neighborhood you cannot afford.
Regardless of the items they carried, Hi-Lo was a dump. The few times I went there, it was never a pleasant experience. I think many of the people up in arms about this like the idea of Hi-Lo more than anything concrete about it. Have fun with your silly boycott.
Look on the bright side guys! The gentrifiers like myself can walk to Whole Foods instead of burning fossil fuels driving to Dedham or Brookline.
How does a professor who deals with topics like gang violence in Guatemala and Honduras on a regular basis lack this much perspective? Yes, the evil Starbucks that pushes out so many little coffee shops that the Globe just had to run a feature on how specialty coffee shops are thriving here. That ran Velouria and Junebug out of Hyde Square by virtue of its non-existence in JP. By posing such a huge threat to local independent commerce that the area's largest independent supermarket -- Roche Brothers -- chose it instead of Dunkin Donuts as its coffee purveyor of choice.
With gang violence surrounding the Kennedy School like a pincer trap and affordable housing in the surrounding area still very much in question even after the Blessed Sacrament condos hit the market, Ms. Sandoval draws the line at Whole Foods. Sigh.
(dirty fraking hippies) go home. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Propose something, fund something, start a new business, or get out of the way.
I just hope they keep the mural on Perkins street at the back of the building. That block is sad enough with the blank, brick wall of Angell on one side.
As for the uproar, etc. I had thought about going to the meeting last night, but couldn't get out of the house. I'm glad I didn't, because it seemed like a big venting session, not something with a constructive basis in reality.
As has been said by others on here, I'd focus on jobs for former Hi L employees (maybe form a group to help advise/advocate for them with WF), and the inclusion of as many of the types of foods for which it was known (perhaps through dialog with WF management). I'm not sure if those are achievable goals, but they seem like something that might be able to get done.
Someone above mentioned the irony of "and I'll go ahead and say it, Starbucks!"
It would be great if someone was there last night and at all future community meetings filming this. And also the protesters that picket on opening day (maybe they could offer them some of the delicious deserts WF carries in exchange for an interview). I'm thinking of something in the spirit of Roger and Me, but sort of turned on its head, ideologically. Working Title: "When batshit liberals go nuts." I'm amazed Howie Carr hasn't written a column about the JP-WF drama yet, given the extreme irrationality of it all (and his penchant for targeting the left). I suppose he is busy penning articles about the state government that many of the protesters likely turn a blind eye to.
Anyway, the people upset about this are the most dumbshit folks I've ever heard of in Boston. Instead of complaining about a successful grocery store moving into your neighborhood that carries food which a large swathe of neighborhood residents want to buy and that has agreed in principle to interview the Hi-Lo employees losing their jobs, maybe complain about the violence and crime that still happens in some northern and eastern sections of the neighborhood. Maybe complain about the poor quality of some neighborhood public schools. Maybe complain about the lack of good paying jobs for folks in Boston that don't manage money or aren't a scientist, lawyer, professor or some other professional. Instead you complain about a grocery store? Give me a break.
Specifically, why do you think other people can only concentrate on one thought for months at a time? I have no doubt people who live up that way are concerned about crime. To be concerned about crime doesn't mean you can't also be concerned about something else. At least, if you're not a doctrinaire sputtering Beck zombie who froths at the mouth whenever people object to some alleged bedrock principle of the Christian values of our Founding Fathers, or some crap like that. Hey, this stereotyping stuff is EZ!
The Herald actually did write about this. Peter Gelzinis wrote a rare (for him) stupid column about how you can't buy organic tomatoes in Jamaica Plain.
Dial it back A-man. Only elaborating on someone's point made earlier about saving the fight for something worthwhile. (Like things that actually have a material effect on one's life, such as schools, jobs and safety.)
Getting WF to not open would be a pyrrhic victory: empty shopping complex and lost jobs. The Globe ran a piece months ago about how Hyde Sq shops have been unable to withstand the current downturn and are shuttering en masse.
I'd take WF over ideological purity (anti-corporatism? anti-capitalism? anti-outsider? anti-gentrification?) any day of the week. You can't stop the other Adam's invisible hand.
PS Beck's a great artist and I've been buying his albums since Mellow Gold dropped in '94.
I enjoy that JP maintains a something of a small town feeling. Most of the buildings are not massive, the streets are not highways, the commercial areas are busy, there are still plenty of small businesses where the owners have a stake in the business beyond monetary profit and residents are actually not walled up in the fortresses of their homes. I choose to shop at the local stores where possible. That is part of what I can do to maintain the local small town feeling.
What JP misses however, especially at the southern end, is a reliable consistent grocery store. Harvest is an unpleasant store: stock is frequently depleted, limited, staff are frequently cold bordering on rude and the physical plant is unpleasant. There are no other large nearby (within an short bus ride) grocery stores. I only wish that Whole Foods (or Trader Joe's for that matter) were opening closer to where I live near Forest Hills. To me a Whole Foods is an improvement.
I comprehend the fear that a Whole Foods stores engenders. It means change. But it a reflection of the changes in neighborhood demographics that have already happened. It could also mean an improvement for anyone wanting to use the opportunity. The opportunity could come in the form of learning how to work at the store where expectations of service and responsibility will probably be high.
As for concerns about chains moving in I agree that the less chains the better. But where would prescriptions or toiletries be purchased if there was not a CVS? An ice cream parlor is a great feature of a neighborhood but JP Licks is certainly a chain at this point. Some chains (and I wish this were not the case) offer a necessary contribution not offered elsewhere.
As a chain Whole Foods offers what may be an appropriate scale to the needs of the neighborhood. At least when compared to big box stores like Walmart or Target. It will most likely not act as a vacuum that removes all grocery dollars (the farmer's markets will not decrease) and will it not compete with the other small locally owned businesses which are not in the grocery business (though it by some miracle it resulted in less real estate and insurance offices no harm would be done there). But it might offer make JP as a whole a much more desirable neighborhood.
And in spite of the fact that a more desirable neighborhood will mean that I will pay more taxes to prop a hobbled educational system and pay more of the massive pensions and better than I could hope for medical plans I will still support what for me is an improvement in where I have planted my roots.
These comments would have been helpful for the community dialogue spoken at the meeting itself and not on a blog a day later. It’s disparaging to here all these angry comments now rather than at the meeting. It would have done better to have attended the meeting and demonstrate that there were more perspectives on this issue, but unfortunately only one person shared that opinion. I say jump in, join the actual community discussions, and be a part of your neighborhood; that is what JP has been all about for the last few decades- not just wanton Leftism.
My question that I am wrestling with is this: Does the Boston area need an 11th Whole Foods? There are already 10 locations within 8 miles of the 02130 zip code. Can the already terribly congested Centre St. handle all the excess traffic congestion and parking shortages that this store will bring to the neighborhood? Just basing this off of my experience when at other area Whole Foods’, I’m not sure I want to have to deal with that. We also have a Trader Joe’s about a mile away in Brookline, so it’s not like the available food options are lacking for high-end grocery retail or just grocery in general.
It also doesn’t mean that if Whole Foods didn’t set up shop, that we’d be dealing with another vacant building in Hyde Square. There are plenty of people who would love to redevelop a parcel of land that size in this city; it doesn’t have to be another supermarket. I think that the Fenway area has attested to that in the recent years with their redevelopment. I actually would have been interested in seeing something like what happened at the brewery complex. That would be a more intelligent development solution that would help retain the sought after character of JP and enrich the neighborhood value in many ways than just dollars.
Nobody who isn't angry about Whole Foods replacing the only remaining example of googie in JP feels any need to go to a community meeting about it and hear a bunch of dirty hippies rant on disjointedly about sticking it to the man by forcing people to drive farther for their groceries.
Whole Foods will be a great addition to JP. More JP residents will shop there than ever shopped at Lo-Lo foods. Most people will be thrilled to walk there. And nobody needs to go shout down a bunch of all-purpose whiners with infinitely recyclable slogans to make that happen.
And for a better option, turning the site into half-million dollar condos? This is the anti-gentrification choice? I looked at those brewery lofts. What a laugh. They were so overpriced they couldn't even sell them in JP. This is what JP needs more of, more than a place to buy good produce?
Can you people even make a coherent argument? Why should any sane person want to put up with a room full of this? And, yes, this is disparaging.
Why on earth would I spend time away from my family to listen to bunch of idiots that don't understand they have no say in the matter. I love how they keep suggesting alternate uses for someone else's property! It's weapons grade stupid. There is no point in debating them because they don't have the law, or reality on their side and just want to hear themselves talk.
Dear anon- your post is insulting to everyone who comes to this forum for civil discussion and to perhaps learn something new and different about local issues based on the opinions expressed by others. Your comment lacks content and respect. Clearly other folks in the community feel the need to speak out about losing a cultural meeting place. Though I personally prefer to shop at Whole Foods than Hi Lo, I completely respect the desire to be heard and the fact that a group of people in the community have strong feelings on the subject.
Seriously, it would be appreciated if you could find a different online forum for spewing thoughtless insults directed towards a group of people in your community who are standing up for something they care about.
Anon's post is much closer to accurate than yours, Jeremy. It's all very nice if people want to get together and have a good cry about something, and there should be ample shoulders to lean on, but this is not a case of any political action, and not a case where anybody at all is "standing up" to prevent the loss of something people care about. Hi-Lo is being closed by its owners. It's a done deal, and you can't force the owners of the property to keep running a store they don't want to run anymore. You want to protest someone, go protest them, for all the good it will do you.
Whether Hi-Lo ever could have been considered a "cultural meeting place" is debatable. It's just a supermarket, not a very good one. The vast majority of its products can be purchased elsewhere, and if there's a demand for the others it will be met by other local markets. If you or any of your friends wants to be mad at someone about Hi-Lo supermarket closing, being angry at Whole Foods about it is simply idiotic. It's transference of aimless emotional incontinence onto a bystander.
The idea of picketing the new supermarket or having big public whine-a-thons is the most preposterous mockery of political action I've ever heard of. You feel the need to speak out? Speak out? Like there's some injustice being done here? You're like Rosa Parks, right, except that instead of standing at the back of the bus you are being deprived of moldy produce?
See, this is what happens when you give all the kids a medal just for kicking the ball and every kid in Freshman English gets an A. They think any idiotic thing they have to say deserves praise. Well, Jer, it doesn't. You and your posse remind me of my toddler being mad when a local gas station was dismantled. "Make them put it back exactly like it was!" he screamed. But he was three. You don't have that excuse. Grow up.
Standing up for something they care about? A store they don't own? Please. I guess I'll have to organize a community meeting if City Feed goes out of business because I see my friends and neighbors there. And yes my posts are meant to be insensitive. This is the silliest thing I have seen in JP, and there is plenty of competition.
Before questioning coherence of arguments- might want to be sure that you fully understand what those arguments are. I assumed when MJ referred to the Brewery complex as an example of development more palatable to some folks, MJ was referring to the Brewery complex on Amory Street, which is a historic landmark and houses the JPNDC, Ula Cafe, Bella Luna, the gym, and a number of local businesses.
Correct me if I'm wrong, MJ, but I think it was a fair point.
Personally I don't see Whole Foods as a bad thing, and have no problem shopping there. But I live over by the Brewery, I do think it is a fantastic example of local redevelopment which seems to meet a wide range of needs in the community cutting across cultural and ideological lines.
Which was developed by JPNDC and includes an upscale bakery (because anything with a post 90s business model is upscale or yuppie) and a yuppie bar (because white people go there and drink microbrews) that helped to gentrify that area (the "Brewery District") but now JPNDC is against Whole Foods because it will...gentrify that area and apparently market to an upscale white clientele as opposed to the commercial businesses established in the Brewery.
Got it. Thanks, JPNDC! Let me know when you want to do a price comparison of your tenants with other businesses in the area!
I guess the problem with that theory, Jeremy, is that you have to start with a historic landmark and then find a new use for it.
Another square cement-block building is not going to be a historic landmark anytime soon. In order to use the location for almost anything but another supermarket (or, say a dollar store, which is what you'll likely get if you block Whole Foods), you'd have to tear down the old building. Which would be no great loss to the National Register. As MJ says, redevelop the parcel.
The argument that Hi-Lo could be developed into a pretty historic landmark with cute little cafes and shoppes and all is more of a failure than MJ's original argument. JP is pretty well choking already with cute little cafes and shoppes. If there's anything JP needs less than half-million dollar condos, it's more cute little cafes and shoppes.
The brewery complex I was referring to was the Sam Adams brewery complex that was redeveloped by the JPNDC. Its the one that houses MIke's Gym, ULA cafe, the MIlky way, Laria Foods, Cropcircle kitchen, the lock-smith, Keshet, and about a dozen other small businesses and organizations that contribute to the local economy. That is intelligent redevelopment as it has begun to transform that area in a positive manner without the need for one giant business that will not be reinvesting back into the community.
I'm not a "dirty hippie" as you label many of the residents of JP and I'm not here trying to espouse any socialist agenda. My family and I moved to JP years ago because it was a diverse and active community that provided options very different from the suburban lifestyle where people actually participate in their community. I'm sure JP will continue to be a great neighborhood, although at the expense of becoming more expensive to live in and eventually push out a number of lower income students and residents with the entrance of WF. I'm not going to get pushed out, as I'm not in the middle or lower earning income bracket, but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't look beyond my own self and care about the community as a whole and the needs that others may have. Regardless of whether I shopped at HI-Lo or not, many people did because it was the lowest available price point for groceries. This will displace many people like the residents of the senior assisted living centers and the working poor, not just the latino population.
Why won't you engage the in the public debate? Scared that people will disagree with you? Scared to interact with people that are different from you or look different from you? Scared that you might actually begin to care about someone else's needs?
As a resident of a community, why wouldn't you want to take part in it? Its very easy to type on the computer and hurl insults and engage in name calling from the safety of your home, but the truth is that it's more difficult to stand in the public forum and defend your position. Do you even live in Jamaica Plain? When people refer to the "Brewery", they are referring to the Sam Adams brewery complex pretty much in the center of JP, and not the overpriced lofts built on the border of JP and Mission HIll
True, your reference to the other brewery redevelopment "The American Brewery Lofts" was a terrible idea from the start and should have included space for commercial business and retail sans the outrageous prices. I certainly agree with you on that.
So you can continue to quietly type your opinion away, maybe one or a few people will read it, but mainly it will be forgotten, while the people who truly want something in the neighborhood will go out and fight for it and will be heard. Because of you I think I'm gonna side with the protesters, the people who actually care about what happens to their neighborhood and are willing to do something about it.
thanks!
That will be the epitaph for this whole flap. Why don't I "engage in the public debate?" Because I like to masturbate in private, not in public.
The owner of the Hi-Lo is closing it. He doesn't want to run it anymore. You can't make him. You're not "fighting for something and being heard" by going to a big gripe session about a fait accompli. You're just pretending to. Just like you're pretending that changing one supermarket for another is going to have a more negative impact on a community you don't belong to (middle and lower income people in JP) than is the flood of wealthy folks like yourself willing to drop a half million on a condo so they can enjoy a "diverse lifestyle." Hey, here's an idea: why not change the Hi-Lo into a zoo for diverse people? Then you can bring your kids to see them anytime!
To answer your other question, no, I don't live in Jamaica Plain anymore. I left before the Brewery Complex was anything but a brewery, before you moved there, probably - priced out by people like you. When I mentioned lofts by the Brewery, I was talking about the crappy overpriced new lofts on Amory Street (probably ancient history to you)... looks like the marketing name is The Amory Foundry Studios. I'd never even heard of the other ones up by Angell, which look even more ridiculous.
I'm happy to quietly type my opinion away. It still amuses me. It especially amuses me when people as daft as you are respond and give support to my cynicism. Go protest, missy. Go join the picket lines. Keep us posted so we can have a larf. And bring your kids. They'll learn a valuable lesson they'll keep for the rest of their lives: that they are smarter than their mother.
Love all the dopes beneath the story talking about their love affair with Market Basket. First off, there's no Market Basket in Boston. Second, if the tradeoff is to live in a city with great cultural institutions, nightlife and public transportation or live in Andover and shop at Market Basket... man, that's really no contest. I wonder if New Yorkers weep this much about a lack of a Shop Rite or Wegmans in Manhattan or Brooklyn. Sheesh.
Comments
Oh fer...
People, Hi-Lo is closing. You can't make it come back.
But sure, go ahead, boycott Whole Foods, and go pay more for the same items at Stop and Shop and eat damaged produce. Then you'll be right that you can't afford to live in the neighborhood, only it won't be Whole Foods' fault.
What good will picketing do?
It won't save the Hi-Lo. That horse is out of the barn.
I see a lot of people not wanting Whole Foods, but not a lot of alternative suggestions. What would people rather see in Hi-Lo's place?
And the whole "affordability" argument continues to be a red (organic, free-range) herring. Star Market charges more than Whole Foods for the same items in certain cases.
So, if any anti-WFers are reading this, what do you propose as an alternative?
save the fight for something
save the fight for something more meaningful. By all means, do what you feel is right, but it just seems meaningless. It's all about choice. There is a Stop & Shop about a hundred yards down the road. WTF? The Starbucks comment is classic - way over dramatic. Whole Foods has humanely raised meat, organic fruit and vegetables. It costs a bit more for that (smaller farm suppliers can't compete with Stop&Shop mega suppliers).
The horse has left the barn, folks. City Feed has like 12 dollar sandwiches. Neighborhoods change, change again, and then change again.
I hope JP doesn't lose its character too - but i just don't see this as some harbinger of doom.
I nearly lost it when the
I nearly lost it when the sociologist said, "...the next thing is, I'm going to say it... Starbucks." Oh the horrors! If only I had such monumental problems as a Starbucks moving into my neighborhood!
Picketing Whole Foods and harassing those who work and grocery shop there is not good for the community.
yeah isn't that great?
Multiple Dunkin Donuts (and all their associated litter) in a neighborhood, that's just fine. But a Starbucks? whoa boy get the keys to the bomb shelter because the apocalypse is imminent!
you guys just made my day..
you guys just made my day.. thank you!
Oy...
So if there's still a market for a Hi Lo type market in Hyde Square, then one of these folks who's picketing should open one. I'm sure that there are smart, enterprising business owners who are seeing this as a huge opportunity for creating or expanding a Latin/Carribbean market that fill fill e space left by Hi Lo. But to try to make this into a huge culture war is ridiculous and futile. These are businesses, not public institutions. And to somehow assume that WF is incompatible with a neighborhood that includes Hispanic people is awfully limiting.
To those worried about property values spiking...
If you live in Hyde Square, Bromley-Heath will work as a nice counterweight to Whole Foods when it comes to property values. Making this an "us-versus-them" issue is counterproductive. If anything, WF is a much more inclusive grocery store than Hi-Lo ever was. I enjoyed shopping there the few times I went in, but also felt like I was in one of the dirtier Tiendas de Comesibles in San Salvador.
Please
What we need now to make this perfect is an ironic documentary filmmaker.
"Once we have Whole Foods, the next thing is, I'm going to say it...Starbucks," said sociologist Anna Sandoval.
I cannot wait to cross that
I cannot wait to cross that picket line to buy my dinner at Whole Foods.
Whit
Snark?
Maybe she meant it ironically.
FAcebook PAge: We Are All Whole Foods
Do you have something positive to say about Whole Foods Market coming to JP? Post it here.
Facebook:
We Are All Whole Foods
http://www.facebook.com/pages/We-Are-All-Whole-Foods/152610588127630?v=wall
Hokay
Good on Whole Foodies for fighting back, but isn't the "We are all [X]" meme reserved for vigils after acts of terrorism and government oppression?
Nope. See: We Are All Mechanics
http://www.weareallmechanics.com/
wait a minute...
Isn't that kind of a contradiction, using memes and peace vigils in the same sentence? Please discontinue these logical fallacies, otherwise I'm never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down, never gonna run around and desert you, never gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbye, never gonna tell a lie and hurt you.
So that's just how you roll, huh?
Some trenchant analysis.
DAMMIT
I think I just got Rick Rolled. Despite how it should have been TOTALLY OBVIOUS that that was a rick-roll-related post.
Thanks!
That was the best comment I've seen on Whole Foods coming to JP.
That's OK
Ignoring those folks will just get me into practice for ignoring clipboard holders from "The Fund" who'll be setting up camp there once the protesters leave. Again, there's too much support for this project in JP for it to fail. Say what you will about those supporting it, but they live here too and, in some cases, own the businesses the anti-WF folks claim to be championing.
The Whole Foods Controversy
Government takeover of health care was PolitiFact's #1 Lie of the year (even bigger than "death panels".) It's a shame conservative Republicans have to introduce big lies into the debate in order to convince their stupid acolytes to support them.
This is why when any business
This is why when any business wants to open in JP, we create a rigorous review of their political beliefs and only those business owners that check off all the boilerplate progressive beliefs (as developed by our two national political parties in an attempt to create reliable voting blocks) get to open up.
One guy got bounced because he tried to add a qualification to his position on school choice...but we put down our clipboards and showed him the door.
Every year, we re-poll our business owners to make sure their views haven't "evolved."
Conservatives lie to themselves and others
Just because I don't agree with the CEO of Whole Foods doesn't mean I won't occasionally shop there.
But just because I shop there doesn't mean I have to be silent when he spouts bullshit and conservative propaganda.
Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.
Conservatives don't have any real arguments that make sense, the only thing I hear from them is scare stories and lies.
Government takeover of health-care happened a long time ago, and people love it. It's called Medicare, and it already pays for the majority of health-care costs in the country. The rest is handled by government-subsidized workplace health benefits.
Conservatives lie to themselves and others.
Hey!
Good to see you guys posting here as well!
Its amazing how quickly
Its amazing how quickly anti-corporate progressives who value the diversity of their neighborhood turn into into conservative free market capitalists when tempted with flax seed oil, tofu burgers and Indiana drizzled cinnamon kettlecorn popcorn.
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/02/03/48-whole-foods-and-grocery-co-ops/
It's amazing how wingnuts...
judge "diversity" by things (flax-seed oil vs. plantains) and stores (Hi-Lo vs. Whole Food) instead of by the people in their community. Last I checked, Whole Foods doesn't keep a team of Cossacks on payroll to launch pogroms on people who make less than $40,000 a year before it moves into a neighborhood.
I've gotta say....there's a grain of truth there
I shop at Whole Foods regularly (not exclusively). Even though I'll miss being able to buy a couple (non-perishable) things at Hi-Lo that I haven't yet found elsewhere, the new WF store will be beneficial for JP, for the reasons already stated.
I know quite a few people who abhor the very thought of any corporate executive (or corporations them selves for that matter) making any type of money whatsoever. They proudly declare that they won't buy (you name it) from (insert corporation's name here) because that's a big, greedy corporation that does big business, greedy things. And they proudly shop at WF because you know...it's such a great place that wouldn't do anything like that. Then I watch the look on their faces when I remind them that WF is a very big corporation headed by a very-well-paid CEO who has been proven to do a some very greedy-corporate-CEO-type things.
funny
but...you could also say "stuff white people like" is protesting against, and boycotting....wait for it....a freaking grocery store.
This is a business, not a public institution. I'm all about choice - and there is plenty of them on Centre street, from overpriced but homey Harvest, to bodegas, to ridiculously overpriced City Feed, to moderately priced but genetically modified Super Stop & Shops, to a moderately overpriced organic foods store.
Hi Lo sold out, and Whole Foods bought it. You act as if it's Walmart or something. Another vacant space next to Bella/Milky Way will be depressing.
Its amazing how quickly
Yeah - ain't it? ;-) The people lined up already on Centre street waiting for Whole Foods to open are the very ones who won't STFU about 'the diversity' in Jamaica Plain. I wonder if they'll be voting Republican now.
Yes, because that's the same thing
It's the people, not the stores. The funny thing is that I see people of all strokes shopping at Whole Foods and Trader Joe's in Brookline and in the Stop & Shop here. I don't think it will affect diversity in the slightest. Of course, you wingnuts can continue to freely ignore diverse areas as always and lock up the Ford Explorer in your gated community by the mall.
Hahaha this barb always works
Hahaha this barb always works best because everybody in JP is exactly the same thinking the same things all the same time and so it's funny because they're all like this and now you're like, ooooohhh so they are not like that all the time, in fact they are sometimes different than how I always say they are and now I've got you every single person in JP being different than I've set you up to be.
It's also amazing how teabaggers
turn into communist central planners, rallying against local business, when their property values might take a hit.
Via Matt Yglesias
Virginia? Teabaggers and
Virginia? Teabaggers and Communists? Whats that have to do with hypocritical hipsters in Jamaica Plain?
Darling, did you see the
Darling, did you see the photo of the anti-WF JP residents who attended the meeting? They were hardly hipsters. Save your hate for the appropriate thread.
And while you're at it...
Let's fight to bring back the Calumet Market in Mission Hill. Nothing says "neighborhood" like the commingled smells of urine and spoiled meat!
This is just silly
If you want to live in an "affordable" neighborhood here's the best thing you can do: make sure no one else would like to live there (crime and filth are two good tools for this). When you work hard to make a neighborhood nice to live in, guess what, other people will want to live there too. With higher demand comes higher prices, that's just life. If you are forced to move out of your neighborhood once it becomes nice, I do truly feel for you (although I'm not sure how that happens to be honest). However, don't begrudge other people who want to move in and have the money to do so, and don't complaint that with the ever rising price of living in your nice neighborhood come pricier businesses to cater to the wealthy. Again, that's life. If its the evil corporations these people are really upset about, that falls flat, as JP already has a healthy corporate business community (e.g., I'm going to say it . . . Dunkin Donuts). Perhaps this is a group of people from Hyde Square that just woke up to the fact that the JP gentri-wave is coming, but they probably should have realized that when Domino's wasn't "allowed" to open over by Angel Memorial (note: inexpensive chain restaurants are another great tool to keep the nice factor in check).
This gets to something that I
This gets to something that I always think about. When I think about communities that have been anti-chain, I don't think about affordable communities. I think of Wellesley and other wealthy places watching over their 'character.'
Not about Chains
I didn't hear one person last night who either shopped at Hi-Lo or grew up in JP mention the word chain. This is about losing a store that everybody in the community had a choice to shop at. Whole Foods doesn't offer that same choice so people want to organize to stop it while also figuring out a replacement. Low and moderate income people cannot afford to shop at WF and will not benefit from their products. And as one person did mention last night, HL was as much of a cultural social scene as it was a grocery store and WF is not.
I agree with this. Where do
I agree with this. Where do you live? I'm not benefiting from you living there and I don't have a choice to live there right now. I'd like to cancel your lease and propose a better use of your space. I don't like how you're using it now at all and I would like to vacate your apartment for a bit while I take the time to organize the community to figure out a replacement.
Now everyone has the choice
Now everyone has the choice to shop at Whole Foods which has an excellent selection of fresh produce. They also carry plenty of foods which are hard to find elsewhere... including wheat-free, dairy-free options which is great for people who have food allergies. What I don't get is if Hi-Lo opted to quit JP, then why aren't people protesting the owner of Hi-Lo? It was Hi-Lo's choice to leave, right?
I'm sure JP has other businesses which aren't affordable for everyone, does that mean they should be forced out of business? What the protesters seem to be making clear is that if you're of moderate income or better, then your kind isn't welcome in their part of the city. Talk about reverse snobbery!
I live in Hyde Square, JP
This is just plain silly. I have lived in Hyde Square for over 7 years. When I first moved here, I checked out many of the local businesses, including the Hi-Lo. But here's the thing- HiLo was dirty, understaffed, and now is sold! They were not the victoms of some yuppy-corporate takeover - they sold! They didn't have a whole lot of particularly "special" groceries, nor were their prices particularly low when compared to Stop and Shop. Summing all of that up - I went there exactly TWICE, not buying something (since they didn't have what I needed) both times. In seven years.
This is not up for debate. Whole foods bought, Hi-Lo is sold, and it is not coming back. I, for one, am absolutely thrilled at the change. Whole foods, admittedly, doesn't offer some of the very specialized specifically Latin exports that Hi-Lo offered. This is true. But they DO offer choice - a new kind of choice - with many locally-sourced, organic, and other top-notch food choices (and food education) that hasn't previously been as readily available in a mass-market environment in JP (and the nearby Boston boroughs).
This is good news (great news?!) for the health of our community. I also strongly suspect that they'll be cleaning up the store and the lot (which was filthy, always empty, and had the WORST produce I have ever seen, (and I used to work in sub-Saharan Africa), creating jobs, bringing in shoppers from nearby Longwood, bordering Brookline, West Rox & Rosi, and doing a good degree of community outreach toward better nutrition. As both a JP resident and a doctor, I can really get behind that - particularly with a mindfulness that my Latino/a neighbors demographically are far more likely to suffer from obesity-related morbidity and mortality in our lifetimes. I disagree with the poster above who stated that, "Low and moderate income people cannot afford to shop at WF and will not benefit from their products." - this is total supposition and not based in fact. The bottom line is that all people benefit from a better quality food supply, and that the prices for staple items (vegetables, rice, dry beans, etc.) are pretty fair at WF!
I lived in Pittsburgh a while back, and while there, my husband actually comparison shopped for about 20 of our pantry staples (just price checking) at the local megamart, Whole Foods, and Trader Joe's. What he found may shock you: Whole Foods, as a whole, was the most economical. They were a few pennies more for some things (soy milk, meat, fish) and considerably less so for others (oat bran, frozen veggies, artichoke hearts (I love them), more). The thing about WF that makes it excellent is that they carry a range that no other of the "megamart" foodsellers does - everything from rice and dry beans and bulk peanuts to caviar and vegan mayonnaise substitutes - as well as everything in between. If one weren't in the market for caviar before, there is no reason to suspect that she will be with WF in town. But if one were buying cornmeal before, WF still has it, at a fair price.
There has been a huge number of folks here (and other forums) who have been espousing as gospel that WF is more expensive, without actually studying it. In fact, they sell many canned goods, fresh produce, dry pantry items, and more at quite competitive prices (and far less pricey than some of the other food vendors along Centre St...). Furthermore, they won't be the only gig in town - Stop and Shop is a 5 minute walk away. So are many smaller local Latin markets (including one with great Mexican candy at the end of my block!) - Rather than being about restricting choice, WF seems to be creating choice and providing a new niche to JP shoppers - if you find it is too pricey, walk away. But if you want a nice squash and locally caught cod, in addition to edible vegetables and inexpensive bulk beans, this just might be right for you, and that is no insult to the community.
oh the white humanity
http://o4.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/PATCH/resize/600x450/http://hss-prod.hss.aol.com/hss/storage/patch/4faddd7693340c1ae17d3064702a1bdd
Funny how I don't see many People Of Color there...
What are you talking about? I
What are you talking about? I blew up a copy of this photo and although it's difficult to tell the ethnicity/skin color of many of the attendees in the back, of those imaged cleary enough there are at least 25-33% who are pretty clearly latino or AA. Could be higher.
What a troll you are, anonymous coward.
(p.s. I think the JP-is-well-and-truly-gentrified train left the station about a dozen years ago.)
Are we looking at the same photo?
Looks pretty damn largely Latino/a to me.
I was there and am pictured
I was there and am pictured and I can tell you that there was a predominance of the Latino/Caribbean contingent.
The foundation of this arguement
The angry emotions are the consequence of a more bottom-rock issue: the gap between those who can afford to shop at places like WF and Starbucks regularly(Like weekly to daily) verses those who can afford to shop at S&S and DDs. The WF and SB comments are tangential to how some long-time residents of JP feel that their neighborhood identity is slipping away and being replaced by what they feel is a white-washed consumeristic culture.
This is a consequence of the suburban to urban rush that has been occurring in many cities throughout our country. The urban lower class are being pushed out, either through property values going up, or seeing their local neighborhood culture be replaced with a hybridized interpretation of their culture as they see their long time staple stores be replaced with the "new."
People can nit-pick about how WF as cheaper prices/better value vs. GM foods at S&S, but it ignores the bedrock issue at hand. If my family income was under $30K a year, near the verge of using food stamps to scrape by, would WF be a practical place to shop?
"If my family income was
"If my family income was under $30K a year, near the verge of using food stamps to scrape by, would WF be a practical place to shop?"
Again, it depends on what you're buying and anyone who makes under $30k a year knows how to make it stretch anywhere. My sibling did it with no help in Astoria, Queens, making less than $17K, but if you're uncomfortable with the Whole Foods, there's a Stop & Shop, Pimentel and other markets right down the street.
"being replaced by what they feel is a white-washed consumeristic culture."
Replaced by a consumeristic culture? People on their side of the argument consider Hi-Lo a "cultural institution." A store equated to culture. How is that not consumerist? That's like saying Zaftig's is an essential part of Judaism in Brookline. Stores and restaurants come and go, the people and the things they contribute make up the area's "cultural institutions."
As for the greater issue of cultural migration, this has occurred for decades. The Jews, Italians, Irish, Poles, Germans, Cantonese and Japanese left the cities in the 1950s and 1960s. Puerto Ricans, Cubans and Portuguese followed in the 1970s and 1980s. Then Brazilians, Albanians, Fujian Chinese, Vietnamese and Thai after them. Nobody lays hold to a city forever. Neighborhoods change, faces change, stores change. It's part of what makes living in a city so wonderful, but part of the reason why people who feel so insulated by those communities also leave when they start to change. The "suburban-to-urban" rush was borne from some of that change and from a younger generation's desire to embrace what their parents and grandparents abandoned. I find that inspiring, and not something to be mourned.
Depends what you eat
Yeah, really.
"the gap between those who can afford to shop..."
"...the gap between those who can afford to shop at places like WF and Starbucks regularly(Like weekly to daily) verses those who can afford to shop at S&S and DDs...."
As you mentioned, later on in the very same post, WF *does* have better prices on similar items, not to mention their own store brand which is a good value. It's more than a nitpick. I believe it was eeka who pointed out in a different thread that if you stroll the natural/organic aisle at stop and shop you will very often find the same items on the shelves *at a higher price* than at WF.
Plus DD and WF cost pretty much the same for the similar items, don't they? Big cup of coffee at Starbucks, about 2 bucks. Big cup of coffee at Dunkins, about 2 bucks. Fancy iced overly sweet high calorie drink with silly name at Starbucks, $4. Glorified Slurpee at Dunkin Donuts $4.
I don't buy the 'those who can afford to shop at' point in your post, unless I'm really really too dim to see the point you were trying to make.
Do you really think that Stop and Shop is inexpensive?
What planet do you grocery shop on? Seriously. Or do you even do any of the grocery shopping?
I hardly ever set foot in the place - sure, junk food shit is cheap with surrender of your personal information, but take a look at the prices on staple foods some time.
I treat WF as a convenience store, since it is the closest grocery and I can send my kids there on foot or on bikes. Otherwise, its Market Basket or Foodmaster for price, Hannaford if I'm visiting my MIL.
Questions
1. "I hardly ever set foot in the place": Doesn't that kind of kill your basis for consistent comparison?
2. Don't you live in Medford?
Why I don't go there
Having teenagers and two jobs in the household means some late night trips to buy critical items that seem to vanish in a puff of metabolism. I will go to Stop and Shop if it is late at night and I'm only buying a few items.
I only buy a few things there because I have found that a gallon of milk or loaf of bread or dozen eggs or bag of potatoes or other staple item will be consistently much more expensive than anywhere else including the Whole Foods near my home. Buying a large grocery order is very costly, since they are really expensive for basic food items even if you get great price breaks on selected processed foods.
I used to work near JP, and the prices at the Stop and Shops were no different there than they were in Medford. Whole Foods prices don't vary much over the Boston area, either. My living in Medford is therefore irrelevant to the argument: Stop and Shop is a very expensive place to shop unless you only buy junk food. The Globe used to purchase a "standard basket" of groceries at different stores, and found this to be true as well.
Buzzwords what?
Have you ever shopped at Whole Foods? Or do you know any poor people?
As we've gone over 28934798237 times on UH, Whole Foods does sell $50 truffle oil and crap, but they also have comparable prices on staples, better prices on better produce, and much much much better prices on stuff like meatless stuff that they do more volume of than other stores.
A family of one parent and one child making $30,000 a year and paying market rent gets $367 per month in food stamps. That'll buy a lot more than mac-n-cheese at any grocery store. If they have subsidized rent, live with relatives, whatever, they might get less, but then they'll have more money available for groceries.
One family I know, immigrants from India, spend about $100 per month on groceries for a family of 10. They mostly shop at Whole Foods, because it has the best prices on things like store-brand or bulk big bags of rice, garbanzos, cereals, spices, etc. They also do some shopping at Super 88. This family can tell you the price of everything they use at four or five different stores -- they don't have a lot of money and they like to eat well. Yes, this does require having time to be home and cook, which they do, but this family eats really really well for hardly any money. They make much less than $30K per year and there are 10 of them -- 6 adults and 4 kids.
Also, despite your image that only rich people could even possibly walk into Whole Foods, anyone is of course welcome to buy anything there. I work with a lot of families who make $6936 per year -- common DTA figure. Most of these families do things like go to Chuck E. Cheese once per month or so, order takeout a couple times a month, etc. Most also have cable. Splurging on some Whole Foods hot bar is cheaper than most takeout and much cheaper than going to Chuck E. Cheese, so it's bullshit that WF is financially out of reach for people on public assistance and with low incomes. Whether people are interested in going there or feel that it's a store that their sort of people go to is another issue, and I definitely support all businesses doing research about their local neighborhood and making sure to stock what local people want.
But screaming that no one can possibly afford to buy 89-cent cans of beans at Whole Foods is just not even logical.
These people are beyond parody
It's amazing how little some of these people understand about how the world works. Knapp Foods clearly found it better for their bottom line to close Hi-Lo and rent the space. The idea that the "community" should have a say in that decision is ludicrous as long as it conforms to current zoning. The fact that Whole Foods even agreed to interview the Hi-Lo employees is generous to begin with. The complaints about rising property values pricing people out of the area is silly too. While I hate for someone to have to leave a place they love, that's life in the big city. There is no right to live in a neighborhood you cannot afford.
Regardless of the items they carried, Hi-Lo was a dump. The few times I went there, it was never a pleasant experience. I think many of the people up in arms about this like the idea of Hi-Lo more than anything concrete about it. Have fun with your silly boycott.
Look on the bright side guys! The gentrifiers like myself can walk to Whole Foods instead of burning fossil fuels driving to Dedham or Brookline.
"Once we have Whole Foods,
"Once we have Whole Foods, the next thing is, I'm going to say it...Starbucks," said sociologist Anna Sandoval (Giron).
How does a professor who deals with topics like gang violence in Guatemala and Honduras on a regular basis lack this much perspective? Yes, the evil Starbucks that pushes out so many little coffee shops that the Globe just had to run a feature on how specialty coffee shops are thriving here. That ran Velouria and Junebug out of Hyde Square by virtue of its non-existence in JP. By posing such a huge threat to local independent commerce that the area's largest independent supermarket -- Roche Brothers -- chose it instead of Dunkin Donuts as its coffee purveyor of choice.
With gang violence surrounding the Kennedy School like a pincer trap and affordable housing in the surrounding area still very much in question even after the Blessed Sacrament condos hit the market, Ms. Sandoval draws the line at Whole Foods. Sigh.
DFH, go home
(dirty fraking hippies) go home. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Propose something, fund something, start a new business, or get out of the way.
I just hope they keep the
I just hope they keep the mural on Perkins street at the back of the building. That block is sad enough with the blank, brick wall of Angell on one side.
As for the uproar, etc. I had thought about going to the meeting last night, but couldn't get out of the house. I'm glad I didn't, because it seemed like a big venting session, not something with a constructive basis in reality.
As has been said by others on here, I'd focus on jobs for former Hi L employees (maybe form a group to help advise/advocate for them with WF), and the inclusion of as many of the types of foods for which it was known (perhaps through dialog with WF management). I'm not sure if those are achievable goals, but they seem like something that might be able to get done.
To someone's earlier point
Someone above mentioned the irony of "and I'll go ahead and say it, Starbucks!"
It would be great if someone was there last night and at all future community meetings filming this. And also the protesters that picket on opening day (maybe they could offer them some of the delicious deserts WF carries in exchange for an interview). I'm thinking of something in the spirit of Roger and Me, but sort of turned on its head, ideologically. Working Title: "When batshit liberals go nuts." I'm amazed Howie Carr hasn't written a column about the JP-WF drama yet, given the extreme irrationality of it all (and his penchant for targeting the left). I suppose he is busy penning articles about the state government that many of the protesters likely turn a blind eye to.
Anyway, the people upset about this are the most dumbshit folks I've ever heard of in Boston. Instead of complaining about a successful grocery store moving into your neighborhood that carries food which a large swathe of neighborhood residents want to buy and that has agreed in principle to interview the Hi-Lo employees losing their jobs, maybe complain about the violence and crime that still happens in some northern and eastern sections of the neighborhood. Maybe complain about the poor quality of some neighborhood public schools. Maybe complain about the lack of good paying jobs for folks in Boston that don't manage money or aren't a scientist, lawyer, professor or some other professional. Instead you complain about a grocery store? Give me a break.
Truly, the height of stupidity.
Why is it people like you think everybody thinks like you?
Specifically, why do you think other people can only concentrate on one thought for months at a time? I have no doubt people who live up that way are concerned about crime. To be concerned about crime doesn't mean you can't also be concerned about something else. At least, if you're not a doctrinaire sputtering Beck zombie who froths at the mouth whenever people object to some alleged bedrock principle of the Christian values of our Founding Fathers, or some crap like that. Hey, this stereotyping stuff is EZ!
The Herald actually did write about this. Peter Gelzinis wrote a rare (for him) stupid column about how you can't buy organic tomatoes in Jamaica Plain.
Dial it back A-man. Only
Dial it back A-man. Only elaborating on someone's point made earlier about saving the fight for something worthwhile. (Like things that actually have a material effect on one's life, such as schools, jobs and safety.)
Getting WF to not open would be a pyrrhic victory: empty shopping complex and lost jobs. The Globe ran a piece months ago about how Hyde Sq shops have been unable to withstand the current downturn and are shuttering en masse.
I'd take WF over ideological purity (anti-corporatism? anti-capitalism? anti-outsider? anti-gentrification?) any day of the week. You can't stop the other Adam's invisible hand.
PS Beck's a great artist and I've been buying his albums since Mellow Gold dropped in '94.
Clowns to the left of me, jokers to my right
/stuck in the middle of foods
Quandary
I enjoy that JP maintains a something of a small town feeling. Most of the buildings are not massive, the streets are not highways, the commercial areas are busy, there are still plenty of small businesses where the owners have a stake in the business beyond monetary profit and residents are actually not walled up in the fortresses of their homes. I choose to shop at the local stores where possible. That is part of what I can do to maintain the local small town feeling.
What JP misses however, especially at the southern end, is a reliable consistent grocery store. Harvest is an unpleasant store: stock is frequently depleted, limited, staff are frequently cold bordering on rude and the physical plant is unpleasant. There are no other large nearby (within an short bus ride) grocery stores. I only wish that Whole Foods (or Trader Joe's for that matter) were opening closer to where I live near Forest Hills. To me a Whole Foods is an improvement.
I comprehend the fear that a Whole Foods stores engenders. It means change. But it a reflection of the changes in neighborhood demographics that have already happened. It could also mean an improvement for anyone wanting to use the opportunity. The opportunity could come in the form of learning how to work at the store where expectations of service and responsibility will probably be high.
As for concerns about chains moving in I agree that the less chains the better. But where would prescriptions or toiletries be purchased if there was not a CVS? An ice cream parlor is a great feature of a neighborhood but JP Licks is certainly a chain at this point. Some chains (and I wish this were not the case) offer a necessary contribution not offered elsewhere.
As a chain Whole Foods offers what may be an appropriate scale to the needs of the neighborhood. At least when compared to big box stores like Walmart or Target. It will most likely not act as a vacuum that removes all grocery dollars (the farmer's markets will not decrease) and will it not compete with the other small locally owned businesses which are not in the grocery business (though it by some miracle it resulted in less real estate and insurance offices no harm would be done there). But it might offer make JP as a whole a much more desirable neighborhood.
And in spite of the fact that a more desirable neighborhood will mean that I will pay more taxes to prop a hobbled educational system and pay more of the massive pensions and better than I could hope for medical plans I will still support what for me is an improvement in where I have planted my roots.
These comments would have
These comments would have been helpful for the community dialogue spoken at the meeting itself and not on a blog a day later. It’s disparaging to here all these angry comments now rather than at the meeting. It would have done better to have attended the meeting and demonstrate that there were more perspectives on this issue, but unfortunately only one person shared that opinion. I say jump in, join the actual community discussions, and be a part of your neighborhood; that is what JP has been all about for the last few decades- not just wanton Leftism.
My question that I am wrestling with is this: Does the Boston area need an 11th Whole Foods? There are already 10 locations within 8 miles of the 02130 zip code. Can the already terribly congested Centre St. handle all the excess traffic congestion and parking shortages that this store will bring to the neighborhood? Just basing this off of my experience when at other area Whole Foods’, I’m not sure I want to have to deal with that. We also have a Trader Joe’s about a mile away in Brookline, so it’s not like the available food options are lacking for high-end grocery retail or just grocery in general.
It also doesn’t mean that if Whole Foods didn’t set up shop, that we’d be dealing with another vacant building in Hyde Square. There are plenty of people who would love to redevelop a parcel of land that size in this city; it doesn’t have to be another supermarket. I think that the Fenway area has attested to that in the recent years with their redevelopment. I actually would have been interested in seeing something like what happened at the brewery complex. That would be a more intelligent development solution that would help retain the sought after character of JP and enrich the neighborhood value in many ways than just dollars.
Condo in the meat section?
Nobody who isn't angry about Whole Foods replacing the only remaining example of googie in JP feels any need to go to a community meeting about it and hear a bunch of dirty hippies rant on disjointedly about sticking it to the man by forcing people to drive farther for their groceries.
Whole Foods will be a great addition to JP. More JP residents will shop there than ever shopped at Lo-Lo foods. Most people will be thrilled to walk there. And nobody needs to go shout down a bunch of all-purpose whiners with infinitely recyclable slogans to make that happen.
And for a better option, turning the site into half-million dollar condos? This is the anti-gentrification choice? I looked at those brewery lofts. What a laugh. They were so overpriced they couldn't even sell them in JP. This is what JP needs more of, more than a place to buy good produce?
Can you people even make a coherent argument? Why should any sane person want to put up with a room full of this? And, yes, this is disparaging.
Exactly!
Why on earth would I spend time away from my family to listen to bunch of idiots that don't understand they have no say in the matter. I love how they keep suggesting alternate uses for someone else's property! It's weapons grade stupid. There is no point in debating them because they don't have the law, or reality on their side and just want to hear themselves talk.
Dear anon- your post is
Dear anon- your post is insulting to everyone who comes to this forum for civil discussion and to perhaps learn something new and different about local issues based on the opinions expressed by others. Your comment lacks content and respect. Clearly other folks in the community feel the need to speak out about losing a cultural meeting place. Though I personally prefer to shop at Whole Foods than Hi Lo, I completely respect the desire to be heard and the fact that a group of people in the community have strong feelings on the subject.
Seriously, it would be appreciated if you could find a different online forum for spewing thoughtless insults directed towards a group of people in your community who are standing up for something they care about.
Ridiculous mockery of political action
Anon's post is much closer to accurate than yours, Jeremy. It's all very nice if people want to get together and have a good cry about something, and there should be ample shoulders to lean on, but this is not a case of any political action, and not a case where anybody at all is "standing up" to prevent the loss of something people care about. Hi-Lo is being closed by its owners. It's a done deal, and you can't force the owners of the property to keep running a store they don't want to run anymore. You want to protest someone, go protest them, for all the good it will do you.
Whether Hi-Lo ever could have been considered a "cultural meeting place" is debatable. It's just a supermarket, not a very good one. The vast majority of its products can be purchased elsewhere, and if there's a demand for the others it will be met by other local markets. If you or any of your friends wants to be mad at someone about Hi-Lo supermarket closing, being angry at Whole Foods about it is simply idiotic. It's transference of aimless emotional incontinence onto a bystander.
The idea of picketing the new supermarket or having big public whine-a-thons is the most preposterous mockery of political action I've ever heard of. You feel the need to speak out? Speak out? Like there's some injustice being done here? You're like Rosa Parks, right, except that instead of standing at the back of the bus you are being deprived of moldy produce?
See, this is what happens when you give all the kids a medal just for kicking the ball and every kid in Freshman English gets an A. They think any idiotic thing they have to say deserves praise. Well, Jer, it doesn't. You and your posse remind me of my toddler being mad when a local gas station was dismantled. "Make them put it back exactly like it was!" he screamed. But he was three. You don't have that excuse. Grow up.
I'm sorry my bluntness hurt your fee fees
Standing up for something they care about? A store they don't own? Please. I guess I'll have to organize a community meeting if City Feed goes out of business because I see my friends and neighbors there. And yes my posts are meant to be insensitive. This is the silliest thing I have seen in JP, and there is plenty of competition.
I think MJ was referring to the Amory Street Brewery Complex
Before questioning coherence of arguments- might want to be sure that you fully understand what those arguments are. I assumed when MJ referred to the Brewery complex as an example of development more palatable to some folks, MJ was referring to the Brewery complex on Amory Street, which is a historic landmark and houses the JPNDC, Ula Cafe, Bella Luna, the gym, and a number of local businesses.
Correct me if I'm wrong, MJ, but I think it was a fair point.
Personally I don't see Whole Foods as a bad thing, and have no problem shopping there. But I live over by the Brewery, I do think it is a fantastic example of local redevelopment which seems to meet a wide range of needs in the community cutting across cultural and ideological lines.
Which was developed by JPNDC
Which was developed by JPNDC and includes an upscale bakery (because anything with a post 90s business model is upscale or yuppie) and a yuppie bar (because white people go there and drink microbrews) that helped to gentrify that area (the "Brewery District") but now JPNDC is against Whole Foods because it will...gentrify that area and apparently market to an upscale white clientele as opposed to the commercial businesses established in the Brewery.
Got it. Thanks, JPNDC! Let me know when you want to do a price comparison of your tenants with other businesses in the area!
Historic landmark
I guess the problem with that theory, Jeremy, is that you have to start with a historic landmark and then find a new use for it.
Another square cement-block building is not going to be a historic landmark anytime soon. In order to use the location for almost anything but another supermarket (or, say a dollar store, which is what you'll likely get if you block Whole Foods), you'd have to tear down the old building. Which would be no great loss to the National Register. As MJ says, redevelop the parcel.
The argument that Hi-Lo could be developed into a pretty historic landmark with cute little cafes and shoppes and all is more of a failure than MJ's original argument. JP is pretty well choking already with cute little cafes and shoppes. If there's anything JP needs less than half-million dollar condos, it's more cute little cafes and shoppes.
wrong brewery project- i'm referring to the sam adams brewery
The brewery complex I was referring to was the Sam Adams brewery complex that was redeveloped by the JPNDC. Its the one that houses MIke's Gym, ULA cafe, the MIlky way, Laria Foods, Cropcircle kitchen, the lock-smith, Keshet, and about a dozen other small businesses and organizations that contribute to the local economy. That is intelligent redevelopment as it has begun to transform that area in a positive manner without the need for one giant business that will not be reinvesting back into the community.
I'm not a "dirty hippie" as you label many of the residents of JP and I'm not here trying to espouse any socialist agenda. My family and I moved to JP years ago because it was a diverse and active community that provided options very different from the suburban lifestyle where people actually participate in their community. I'm sure JP will continue to be a great neighborhood, although at the expense of becoming more expensive to live in and eventually push out a number of lower income students and residents with the entrance of WF. I'm not going to get pushed out, as I'm not in the middle or lower earning income bracket, but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't look beyond my own self and care about the community as a whole and the needs that others may have. Regardless of whether I shopped at HI-Lo or not, many people did because it was the lowest available price point for groceries. This will displace many people like the residents of the senior assisted living centers and the working poor, not just the latino population.
Why won't you engage the in the public debate? Scared that people will disagree with you? Scared to interact with people that are different from you or look different from you? Scared that you might actually begin to care about someone else's needs?
As a resident of a community, why wouldn't you want to take part in it? Its very easy to type on the computer and hurl insults and engage in name calling from the safety of your home, but the truth is that it's more difficult to stand in the public forum and defend your position. Do you even live in Jamaica Plain? When people refer to the "Brewery", they are referring to the Sam Adams brewery complex pretty much in the center of JP, and not the overpriced lofts built on the border of JP and Mission HIll
True, your reference to the other brewery redevelopment "The American Brewery Lofts" was a terrible idea from the start and should have included space for commercial business and retail sans the outrageous prices. I certainly agree with you on that.
So you can continue to quietly type your opinion away, maybe one or a few people will read it, but mainly it will be forgotten, while the people who truly want something in the neighborhood will go out and fight for it and will be heard. Because of you I think I'm gonna side with the protesters, the people who actually care about what happens to their neighborhood and are willing to do something about it.
thanks!
Mainly it will be forgotten
That will be the epitaph for this whole flap. Why don't I "engage in the public debate?" Because I like to masturbate in private, not in public.
The owner of the Hi-Lo is closing it. He doesn't want to run it anymore. You can't make him. You're not "fighting for something and being heard" by going to a big gripe session about a fait accompli. You're just pretending to. Just like you're pretending that changing one supermarket for another is going to have a more negative impact on a community you don't belong to (middle and lower income people in JP) than is the flood of wealthy folks like yourself willing to drop a half million on a condo so they can enjoy a "diverse lifestyle." Hey, here's an idea: why not change the Hi-Lo into a zoo for diverse people? Then you can bring your kids to see them anytime!
To answer your other question, no, I don't live in Jamaica Plain anymore. I left before the Brewery Complex was anything but a brewery, before you moved there, probably - priced out by people like you. When I mentioned lofts by the Brewery, I was talking about the crappy overpriced new lofts on Amory Street (probably ancient history to you)... looks like the marketing name is The Amory Foundry Studios. I'd never even heard of the other ones up by Angell, which look even more ridiculous.
I'm happy to quietly type my opinion away. It still amuses me. It especially amuses me when people as daft as you are respond and give support to my cynicism. Go protest, missy. Go join the picket lines. Keep us posted so we can have a larf. And bring your kids. They'll learn a valuable lesson they'll keep for the rest of their lives: that they are smarter than their mother.
Not more expensive...
The Globe goes shopping and finds Whole Foods often cheaper than Hi-Lo...
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/blogs/the_angle/2011/02/whole_foods.html
Funny how actual data
changes the argument, eh? I was just going to post this.....
Comments from the suburbs
Love all the dopes beneath the story talking about their love affair with Market Basket. First off, there's no Market Basket in Boston. Second, if the tradeoff is to live in a city with great cultural institutions, nightlife and public transportation or live in Andover and shop at Market Basket... man, that's really no contest. I wonder if New Yorkers weep this much about a lack of a Shop Rite or Wegmans in Manhattan or Brooklyn. Sheesh.
From what I've seen . . .
. . . of NYC recently- New Yorkers have more serious concerns than a lack of corporate chains.