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Citizen complaint of the day: Keep your damn dogs out of the Lagoon

An irked citizen exhorts the parks department to take a gander at what's going on in the Public Garden:

Public Garden needs more park rangers monitoring park. Over past 3 days people have been allowing their dogs to swim in the pond chasing the ducks and swans.

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Comments

If you wouldn't swim in a body of water, you shouldn't let your dog, either. Even though they're animals, they live in the same relatively clean environments humans do and they might not have the resistance to "nature bacteria" that a wild animal might. If they do have this immunity, they could carry these germs to a human who likely will not have any immunity and get sick.

It's not like letting your dog swim at the beach off-season (and not after a rainstorm.) It's like letting your dog swim in an empty pool that filled up with rainwater. Icky.

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Who cares? If people want to let their fleabags swim in dirty water and get some disease that kills them, that's their problem and one less dog in the world where there are already too many!

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Rather, "Get your g-d-damn dog out of the water."

From the New York Times today, a duck was mauled to death by a dog.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/11/nyregion/duck-is...

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So an animal killed another animal. When this happens outside the boundaries of Manhattan, it's just called "nature." That article even mentions an incident in 2000 when a swan killed a terrier.

Personally I'm more concerned about ducks that have to go up against humans with shotguns.

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more like a domesticated animal that is bound to a leash by law killed a wild animal so it just called "negligence". The humans that shoot at the ducks you speak of, are shot at in areas that are regulated by fed and state law. If anyone has a right to shoot, its those who lawfully do so with the use of hunting/trapping/fishing permits. (Do I really need to explain how all that works?)

In the case of the swan (wild) vs doggie (domestic), i bet you that fido wasnt on his leash, because what reasonable dog owner lets a wild animal bigger than their dog approach it. amirite?

I dont get why dog owners move to places with no backyards and expect people to put up with their shit (literally)when out and about outside, when not on a leash.If you cant adequately provide for a dog (or any animal or that matter) without inhibiting the public/flore/fauna then maybe you ought to rethink owning a pet. Its not that complicated.

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Even city ducks and swans are very capable of evading domestic dogs. The ones that aren't will be eaten at night by foxes or other predators anyway.

I mean, it's pretty rare to see a mallard caught and killed by a dog. Probably good for the species actually in the long run.

(disclaimer: I do not condone dogs breaking the rules of parks)

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Are they capable? My brother once caught a (live) suburban duck. While drunk.

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If the duck had been sober, then perhaps your brother wouldn't have been able to catch it.

(Hat tip to my old English teachers. Yes, if any of your kids or grandkids are reading this, I still remember you teaching us about dangling, misplaced, and other problem modifiers, 40 years later.....)

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Haha, touché. Drunk ducks do make easy targets.

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Bringing home food?

At least they kill for a practical purpose. A well fed dog is not.

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There are some dogs that have been hired to chase waterfowl at the Public Garden. A man with a couple of dogs, border collies I think, that have been trained to harass Canada Geese, comes by regularly, often in the early morning, to discourage geese from lingering. Typically one dog barks at them from shore and the other chases them in the water. They don't bother the pair of swans or the ducks (which frankly get so numerous - 200+ - by late summer feasting on handouts or leftovers of the swans' food that the place reeks of duck crap).

I have seen a couple of instances of peoples' dogs getting away from them but I haven't seen anyone deliberately let them loose in the Lagoon. I also suspect that any dog that went after the swans would quickly regret it. In both instances of escaped dogs in the Lagoon the maintenance staff has helped the owner round up the fugitive. At least one Boston Park Ranger has also been on duty all spring.

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Oh, he's at the Public Garden too? He's also to be found out on the Esplanade between the Mass Ave Bridge and Longfellow Bridge, on the Boston side. He lets the dogs run free and they chase after the geese.

Are you sure he's even paid? I fear he might just be a busybody.

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The BPG guy is paid, I think by the Friends of the BPG. It's a side business for him. I don't know where else he and the dogs patrol but if I run into him again I'll ask.

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I've spoken to the guy with the two sheepdogs on the esplanade. It's a specialty business and he's under contract to come by and encourage the geese to live elsewhere. He said that for the dogs, it's pretty much basic sheep training -- the two dogs run out in a V, and then close on the flock of geese, sending them scattering. (If they were sheep, they wouldn't scatter, but would bunch together, at which point the dogs would wait for their next command.) It's quite impressive to see the dogs out working the geese; the handler whistles, calls "That'll do!", and they bolt back to the car and hop into their crates.

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Seems every time an off-leash or unrestrained dog gets hit by a car or is in any other incident it "got away" from owner.

BS. Take some responsibility and train and care for your pet.

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Dogs are not allowed in the Public Garden, period, on or off a leash, except for assistance dogs. There's a nice 50 acre park right across the street where dogs are allowed,(that would be Boston Common), and are even allowed off-leash in the designated off-leash area by the Joy Street steps.

http://www.cityofboston.gov/parks/rules.asp See section 3(k).

I am a dog owner; I love playing fetch with my dog in the park, and I support the dog exclusion from the Public Garden. The Public Garden and the Common are meant to serve two very different purposes.

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I try to gently encourage people with off-leash dogs to visit the Common instead but it's good to know that in fact dogs are not allowed at all, leashed or not, although I've never seen anyone, ranger or police or maintenance staff, enforce it. Maybe they don't know either.

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Riiiight.

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At least on the Beacon Street side, there is no sign that I saw indicating that dogs are not allowed. If it's there, I missed it.

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I think it's lame to expect everyone to go out of their way to find the rules and read them, although, I suspect, a ranger ticketing you would have the "ignorance of the law is no excuse" argument on his side.

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You do realize, as the name implies, that it's a Victorian garden with greenhouse-raised flowers and plants in designed beds, right?

Why in the world would you think for a second that dogs or any other domesticated animals would be allowed to run through the beds and urinate and defecate there?

What's really lame is the entitled attitude many, if not most, dog owners have.

Here's a pro tip to save us all aggravation:

Assume your dog is not allowed everywhere but on your property and public sidewalks, while properly leashed.
Then check before taking it anywhere else.

I know it's another tribulation.
Que lastima!

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We are not in disagreement -- after all, that there is no sign saying "No urinating into other people's baby strollers" but lack of a sign hardly justifies the act.

The confusion here is that, while the Public Garden is a genteel victorian garden, it's also a public park, and, in general, leashed dogs are allowed in public parks.

What's also in play is an issue with shared cultural assumptions. Pretty much everybody would agree that urinating into a baby carriage is a violation of laws, norms, etc. Dogs in the park, not so much so. In Munich, Berlin, Paris, and, I think, London, dogs are pretty much allowed everywhere, including restaurants, unless explicitly posted. Bring your dog into a restaurant and they promptly bring a water bowl. In Arab cities, on the other hand, people are generally disgusted by dogs and you'd barely be tolerated with one on a leash on the sidewalk. Boston allows dogs on the T; (as do Berlin, Munich, Paris, etc.); New York does not.

You find dogs in the Public Garden an obvious no-no. Others do not. I'd go either way, so long as the dogs are well-behaved and leashed and not digging, defecating in the plantings, etc. You can see why perfectly reasonable people would make the perfectly reasonable assumption that, absent a sign, dogs on leashes could be walked through the sidewalks and pathways of the Public Garden.

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I wish they weren't, for reasons spelled out above. However, after reading this, I walked by the Public Garden. The purpose was purely to get from point A to point B, but I did stop to read the rules posted by the entrance on Boylston Street- either mid block or at Charles Street.

The sign clearly notes that dogs are to be kept on leashes, which to me implies that dogs are allowed.

That said, there were off leash dogs, which drives me crazy.

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Coming in off the corner of Beacon and Charles St, isn't there a box for dog shit bags and the notice to clean up after your dog?

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Its not a matter of needing more rangers, it a matter of the ones currently on staff getting their lazy asses out of the common ranger station and out in the field once in awhile.

Theres no reason flagstaff should be a haven for neer-do-wells, let alone dogs running amok in either BC or PG.

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And never be off leash except at a dog run.
I'm obviously not a pet person, and hate when people let their dogs sniff you up and down uninvited.
Imagine if parents walked their kids around without diapers and let them shit on the sidewalk, or on your lawn...That's how I feel about pet owners & dogs.
Diapers for Dogs!

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Couldn't count on one hand (maybe two) how many times I've been walking alone on a trail in one of our beautiful state or town run parks/conservation areas and had a dog or multiple dogs off their leash run up to me out of nowhere, with no owner in sight. 15-30 seconds later you finally hear the clueless suburbanite coming up the trail, "don't worry, they're nice."

I might have to start taking these walks with a nice lightweight, aluminum baseball bat....

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with which you would crush the skull of a friendly, sociable creature that means you no harm?

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I'm always a little suspucious of people that don't like dogs, but I can understand the fear people have of the unknown when it comes to dogs.

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I love dogs, but since being mauled by a friend's dog a couple of years ago, my feelings about unleashed dogs has changed. This was an animal I had been friendly with previously, and none of us are quite sure what I did to set him off. Thankfully he was a small animal, but I'll have scars on my arms and legs for the rest of my life. Not to mention a new fear of animals.

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unleashed dogs are like jaywalkers: individually not a big deal (usually) but in the aggregate, a massive PITA. I have 2 dogs that are NEVER outside the house unleashed. Granted that the odds of them doing something anomalous is faint but why chance it? Why risk my house and everything I own to some rapacious personal injury lawyer?

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Like I do for people. I'm tolerant and polite but if you're a stranger you shouldn't be invading my space and being overly friendly OR aggressive.

Only children and others w/o their full faculties get a pass on this.
And no, dogs aren't your children.

As dogs can't do this on their own it's the owners that fail here.
I suppose I dislike most dog owners as in my experience most of them feel these rules don't apply to THEIR dog.

And I was less leery of dogs too until one chased me down the street and I had the ability to outrun it long enough to jump into a pickup bed.

That'll change your perspective and I completely understand people's dislike (and like of them as well.)

Oh, and the whole sleeping with them and cleaning up after human-sized shits?

All set.

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understand the fear people have of the unknown when it comes to dogs

As far as the "unknown" part of this, a friend of mine trail runs and has on more than one occasion had to stop her run while the pack of unattended dogs nipped at her heels.

She of course was using the park for a legal, intended use of the park, while the dogs and their owners were not. I fail to see what exactly is unknown?

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who don't know how to react with dogs, and shouldn't have to know how to react with dogs if they are doing something legal.

I have probably interacted with thousands of dogs over the past 10 years in various Boston parks and have never encountered a dog that was the least bit violent towards me that was off leash (I know how to act around dogs and keep myself safe).

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When a strange dog runs up to you, you don't know their intentions.
People shouldn't be subjected to friendly dogs either unless they initiate contact.

Dogs should be trained and restrained do they are at their owners side at all times unless off- leash in designated areas or private property.

Tell me Pete, how was I supposed to act when a pit bull came out nowhere at full stream towards me?

In my opinion most dog owners are irresponsible, thus making most dogs nuisances at least.

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And I've seen a lot of horrible dog attacks, none of them by dogs who who were with their owners in public parks off leash in Boston.

As for the Pitt bull running towards you, I would have to see how the dog was running before I could answer that. Dogs will act different around different people.

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You'd probably end up getting your own visit from the aluminum baseball bat, and rightfully so.

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If you refuse to control your animal, and force someone to defend themselves from it, what do you expect to happen? Do you really think that someone should allow themselves to be bitten or worse because you can't be bothered to leash your dog? Control your animal and you won't ever have a problem. If you fail to do so and someone gets hurt, not only is your dog going to be put down, you will likely be on the losing end of a well deserved lawsuit. Don't be an idiot. Leash your dog unless you are in an area designated for such or on your own property.

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These people always come out for those few weeks between winter and summer when the bugs get going. I know I have to weather these babies until they shut themselves back inside.

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Dogs are banned. Period.

If you have to "deal" with dog haters you're probably not following the rules.

Keep it restrained and away from other people, even if it's friendly, and clean up after it.

Not that hard, but dog nuts just don't get it.

Your dog (and its shit and saliva) should not impose on strangers. Ever.

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As someone commented above, the entrance at Beacon and Charles has dog baggies and a sign reminding you to clean up after your dog. I spend hours a day busking in the Garden when the weather is nice, and I've seen hundreds of dogs and their humans in the Garden, and nary a ranger has ever spoken to any of them.

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SECTION 3. No person shall, in any public park (including any boundary road thereof), or other public place (including any parkway) under the control of the Parks and Recreation Commission, except under the auspices of public authority or in a place especially set apart for the purpose by the Parks and Recreation Commission:

(k) have or allow any animal, including a cat or dog, with the exception of a seeing eye dog for a blind or handicapped person, on a leash, within the boundaries of the Public Garden.

Seems we may need clarification on this. I'll have to see the signs for myself.

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The rule is as plain as can be. The ban may not be enforced; that's entirely a different matter.

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Dog owners should use common sense and not allow their dogs to swim in the Frog Pond. Since not everybody does use common sense, however, maybe there should be a sign put up saying "Do not allow dogs to swim in Frog Pond" for all to see.

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Not surprisingly the City doesn't have its ducks in a row.
There are signs at the gates on Arlington st. Dogs on leashes are allowed.
(Drinking and gambling are not.)

The website does ban dogs, so we all win.

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