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Menino: Might be time for Theater District clubs to close earlier
By adamg on Thu, 05/03/2012 - 8:17am
Venu in repose.
The Herald reports the mayor's fed up with deadly violence outside six Theater District clubs and wants the Boston Licensing Board to hold a club summit and consider rolling back their 2 a.m. closing times.
Separately, the owners of one of the clubs, Venu on Warrenton Street, skipped a hearing yesterday before city licensing director Patricia Malone to discuss why she shouldn't lift the club's entertainment license for a November incident in which four people were shot outside the club.
Before an audience of just two police detectives and a blogger, Malone read into the record a statement that a club manager had accepted hand delivery of a notice for the hearing and agreed to attend. The Boston Licensing Board, which oversees liquor licenses, ruled the club couldn't have done anything to stop the shootings.
Early Monday, a Revere man was shot to death on Tremont Street.
According to the Herald, the mayor specifically cited Rumor, Venu, Royale, Guilt, Cure and Caprice as trouble spots.
City officials have been vowing to crack down on Theater District violence for at least a couple of years now. In December, 2010, then Licensing Board Chairman Michael Connolly called the area a powder keg, in a hearing on a closing-time riot outside Venu that required police from across the city to quell: "Boy, oh, boy, I'm more concerned than I've ever been, and I've been on this board for ten years, that this thing is just going to explode one night."
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Comments
Oh boy
Looks like a few club owners will be trying their hand at the "upscale" restaurant industry.
So Mantra's closing, Enormous Room is gone, these places are under fire and Estate needs reality TV "stars" just to draw. Good call by whoever decided small dance nights at the Middlesex, Brighton Music Hall and Great Scott were the future, though even Phoenix Landing has its troubles on dance nights and that's just a lit up Irish pub.
Stupidity
This is a city wide problem that is caused due to the poor management of the city by a draconian Mayor who believes everyone should be in bed with a cup of coco at 9:00pm. The Theatre District has more clubs than noted by the Mayor. How about Bijou who were recently written up for multiple under age instances in the same night? How about The Estate who operate under the radar and yet are completely ignored by the authorities? To single out the clubs mentioned is wrong. You can't give other businesses in the area an unfair advantage and punish businesses on speculation. There is absolutely no evidence that links this shooting to ANY of the clubs in the Theatre District. Truth is, the Police have no clue who did it and why, if they did they would have been all over the press with it. It's a classic knee jerk reaction from a Mayor that is out of touch with reality. Shootings happen every day now but you can't pin them all on the clubs. This has to be seen as taking away people's right to go out and enjoy themselves as we are supposed to live in a democracy. Were supposed to be able to have the freedom of speech. Were supposed to have a Police Department that protects it's citizens. Were supposed to be adults when were 21. Were supposed to be able to go out and have a drink, but wait......not too many as that might enable us to start having fun and forget about the disaster of the City this Mayor has made Boston. Boston was one of the most cosmopolitan cities in America. Not anymore. The fix is really simple. Police doing their job and foot patrolling the area and making sure people get home safe. Let the clubs pay for that, I'm sure they would not bat an eyelid and would probably even welcome it. Take a leaf out of Miami, or Chicago or New York where the clubs pay the Police to keep people safe. Rolling back hours and locking down the area won't help it will just move the problem elsewhere. If you do it in the Theatre District then you have to make it Boston wide. That might piss off some of your friends though and we can't have that now can we?
You're right, Bosanon
We are supposed to live in a democracy. The only problem is that the lazy and stupid that seem to comprise a majority of this city are either unable or unwilling to participate in it.
63,123 votes. That's all Menino got in 2009. Even if 1/4 of Bostonians are not voting age, he still only got 13% of Boston adults to a) register and b) go to the poll and vote for him.
Our mayor couldn't even get one out of SIX Boston adults to endorse him with a vote. He's not Kim Jong (expletive) Il. VOTE AGAINST HIM, YOU LAZY (EXPLETIVES.)
It's the candidates stupid
I didn't cast a vote for Menino, or Coakley. I wrote in instead. But a lot of people would just not fill out that bubble.
Sometimes a lack of votes means people are just waiting for something they perceive as not worse.
Invalid link
Invalid link --
http://www.universalhub.com/2012/www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?article...
Fixed, sorry about that
Should have been http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?...
Its sad that a few will spoil
Its sad that a few will spoil it for everyone else.
Boston is such a world class city that not only do our bars close at 2, now they want them to close earlier. I think bars in Albany can stay open later. *eye roll*
How about just stepping up police patrols or 'trouble' clubs be required to hire a cop on detail instead?
Why doesn't the city just shut them all down and call it a day. We can just be a city that rolls up the sidewalks at 8pm. Seriously...
Closing time patrol
I don't know if it's just Fridays and Saturdays or other nights as well, but the Theater District clubs pay for a special closing-hour BPD patrol, but even with that, there have been times when police have had to call in units from the rest of A-1 and sometimes the rest of the city to deal with problems.
A post
on the police situation at night in this city would be enlightening Adam.
Are we talking single digits per area, or 10's? 100'sin some?
"He was shot in the back on
"He was shot in the back on Tremont Street at 1:57 a.m. Saturday."
Barring time-warps I believe that would be at the end of Friday's evening.
Add calendars to the list of things I shouldn't be allowed near
You're right, thanks for catching that.
Ding Ding Ding!
You are correct, cybah. Bars in Albany (and even Binghamton, ha!) stay open until 4am. They also have happy hours with drink specials, and the drinks are cheaper overall!
And look where that got Albany:
Albany, NY. No thanks.
Been to Albany of late?
Nice bars, reasonable housing prices, lots of jobs... oh, and 4 a.m. bar closings. I'm not living there right now, but if I had to it wouldn't be so bad.
...is a shooting at 4AM world class enough for you?
If crappy clubs opening till 4am is world class to you, then I feel sorry for you. But then again, you actually contemplate which cities are world class... boring life, ay?
Go back to sleep
NYC, London, Paris, Rome, Reykjavik, Moscow, Buenos Aires and other cites are all vibrant and thriving in part because of "crappy clubs opening until 4 a.m." A few crappy clubs open until 4 a.m. yield good clubs open until 4 a.m. A few of those lead to jazz clubs open until 8 a.m. A few of those lead to late-night movie marathons. All of that together leads to demand for cabs and a lot more cabs on the street at that hour. If there's money to be made, local transit will want its cut and will extend hours.
Some people look at Boston and see the world class city it was and the potential for what it can become. A handful, like yourself, see the mattresses they bought at Bernie and Phyl's and a place to lay their head between shifts.
Here's an idea: Drive out to Natick, rent an apartment in the fuckin' mall and get all the sleep you want. The rest of us will be over here trying to make New England's major city a fun place to be instead of Hartford East.
Because...
Because closing at midnight means people won't shoot each other?
I don't see the correlation. There is punishment and there is curing the disease. This is purely punitive without any value to stopping what is causing the violence. If anything it will just move the stupidity to the next closest place that offers a 2 AM closing time if that is the only reason people are going there to act like assholes.
Seriously
Why not make the closing time 4am, allowing people to leave whenever they want (as most/not all will stay till closing). People talk about how great it is that NY bars stay open later...but the real beauty of it a) people don't feel the need to pound as many drinks as possible from 11pm-130am and b) people leave at various times, eliminating the sh*tshows that occur every weekend in places like the Theater district/Fan Hall/Landsdowne St. It allows for better access to cabs, and just spread people out. Moving up closing time to 1 will just make people drink faster, and will do nothing to eliminate the crowds outside those clubs after closing. Short-sighted.
Venu
Didn't that used to be a gay bar? i don't recall any shoot-outs back when it was and it stayed open until 2 AM. I think Venu gets the clientele it deserves and now they are going to have to pay for it. I reckon you get maybe one shoot-out, and then after the second you have to close at midnight.
Or Even Better...
Let more places stay open late night so everyone and their uncle isn't crammed into a handful of clubs/bars.
Maybe
and I do agree mostly, but the clubs attract a different breed then say, Bell in Hand. Partly because of what they are, and party because of the promotions and entertainment they offer.
I don't think Red Sky, Green Dragon, or Hard Rock Boston is going to see the thugs move in anytime soon.
But yeah, instead of stupid grandstanding and finger wagging, maybe Menino can see how other cities police their clubs and make them safe? Just a thought.
It's not like only Theater District clubs cause problems
In fact, the more I think about this, the more I'm thinking Menino is being unfair to some of those six clubs. It's not Cure that keeps coming before city's two licensing boards but Venu and Rumor. For that matter, it's not like Felt is a stranger to the boards and police and it's not that far away from the Theater District. Where's the outrage there?
And while the Bell in Hand may not have major issues, the bars on the other side of Faneuil Hall have had to explain themselves a few times before the boards. Granted, we're not talking about mass or fatal shootings, but police don't have to find ways to keep busy by Faneuil Hall.
not at all
But they do seem to be more stabby and shootie, and less punchie.
I'm just saying they seem to be doing something wrong: either in what they're promoting, and thus who they're attracting, or in their security and set up. Security wouldn't do much here being after they were jumped on the street, but the clubs have had issues inside just as much.
Either way, I agree that closing times need to be extended. Forcing these places to close earlier just means the hoards will be strolling over to good life, the bars around the commons and the food places in China Town and causing trouble there. And you still have the issue of everyone getting jumped out on the street and patrons playing "down the bottle before they take it away".
Stupid, stupid, stupid. Allow places to stay open and people to filter out... and 1/2 the problem goes away. The key is to making sure the streets aren't swamped by 2,000 people all at the same damn time.
If you haven't seen this area when the clubs let out, it's pretty crazy. It's a ghost town like the financial district, the all of a sudden there's drunks everywhere; running into the street, hanging around on corners, walking home. Lots of dudebro's making their last propositions, or harassing other groups where they failed and now need to ease their ego by cat calling and issuing threats.
This is what happens in Allston
All the crowd from the bars that close at 1am go to the bars that close at 2am and line up.
I've heard many times from the police that all they want to do is try to force everyone to go home. They're blind to the fact that reality doesn't work that way. But welcome to Boston, where blind ignorance and Puritanism thrive off each other.
They do have a point that they don't get enough funding from the city to handle some of the late night issues. That problem can be directly tied to the "liquor license" system.
In a sane world, bars and restaurants would pay taxes to offset the cost of police and emergency services they require. More bars? No problem: more revenue for the city to pay for the police. In our insane world, bars pay some third party an exorbitant amount of money for a license and then go nuts to try and pay off that cost. So they cluster in the most profitable areas and overload the police, who then complain to the mayor, who then tries to destroys the nightlife in the city.
Law of unintended consequences
I think this will not help the situation, and I think, paradoxically, that the situation would be better resolved by places being allowed to stay open later (gasp). The fact of the matter is that people start and end their nights later, and since no one leaves before 2 am (which in reality becomes like 130) everyone leaves at the same time. The T is closed (different issue) and everyone stands in the street to wait for one of an insufficient number of cabs to go home. IF they bars stayed open til 4 (stopped serving at 3 or 330 but music allowed to continue) you would have people become staggered in their leaving. i like to go out and can stay out til 2 but would rarely push it to 3. However, when i leave, i am with people who would leave both earlier and later, and its just overwhelms everything and people are left to compete in the cold and that's when things happen.
Why blame the clubs?
Pieces of shit tend to patronize these kinds of places, but when they try to keep out gangbangers, people cry racism. Funny how tons of Faneuil Hall bars let out at the same time but you never hear of any gun violence in that area.
Seriously, look at that font.
Seriously, look at that font. What kind of people go to a nightclub with a ridiculous font like that? People who have shoot-outs. That is who.
Can you imagine the blood
Can you imagine the blood bath that would ensue if it was in Comic Sans instead?
They'd shoot holes so big
You could look through them
maybe not gun battles
But there are fights there every friday and saturday night for the similar reasons. You have people downing as many drinks as possible before the 130am last call then piling out into the streets to fight for the same 30cabs.
Just an aside.
Dear God let there be a person named 'Comdey' and the marquee isn't trying to advertise Comedy.
.
Additionally, there's something worth advertising happening there on "Thursay".
Comdey is serious business
ADA
I'm sure there are plenty of other Boston establishments that think the ADA is a joke also.
Is "Firsty Thursay" a play on
Is "Firsty Thursay" a play on "Thirsty Thursday" or "First Thursday" or did someone have a stroke when they were putting up the marquee
According to their website,
According to their website, it is actually "Firsty Thursday", so it's a little of both.
How about offering TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS?
Why stand in the street and kill each other when you can just take the train home?
Even suit-and-tie DC keeps its Metro system open until 3 on Fri & Sat nights.
It seems like the government of Boston won't be happy until they can legislate the population into bed by midnight. This is one reason why I will never live there.
^ This and/or extend the
^ This and/or extend the entertainment lic to 4 or 6am. Problem now is you have thousands of people spilling into the streets at the sametime with not enough cabs to get everyone home.
Night Owl
Remember when the T had the Night Owl service? It was about three years in the early aughts--I think, but someone here will correct me. It shut down for lack of ridership.
I think the only reason you see some bars in Manhattan open 'til 4am (closing times in the boroughs are closer to 2) is that the MTA operates 24 hours. In fact, I read somewhere that drunk driving is less of a concern in NYC because people simply don't drive--drunk or sober.
But, this same kind of thing with nightclubs and rowdy behavior happens in NYC. The difference is that Bloomberg doesn't have the capacity to target two clubs like this, and these types of licensing and opening-hour issues are usually handled by a Community Board (similar to Boston's Neighborhood Associations) and don't make the NYTs.
I like the idea of late night T on Fri and Sat.
Not lack of ridership
Lack of funding. The buses themselves were always packed Fri-Sun.
The MBTA didn't want to spend the money on driver overtime anymore, and there were obvious finger pointing to most of the people using the service being intoxicated.... which last time I checked was the point.
Off the streets and onto the T
I am all for the T running all night, I always have been. It might indeed get some of the drunk drivers off the road. But as for drunken, loutish and possibly violent behavior...wouldn't it just move off the streets in front of the clubs and onto the T? There's enough of that as it is when the T is open. Just a thought.
There are several reasons why
There are several reasons why the Night Owl was a financial failure:
1) Double pay after 2 AM. In NYC, the night pay supplement is only 10 or 15 percent.
2) It was an all-or-nothing deal. The Green Line and northern Red Line routes had good ridership. But for political reasons, they refused to run those and cut the underperforming routes.
3) They insisted on having a whole lot of inspectors and police at the Government Center stop, because they were afraid of misbehavior that didn't actually happen.
4) Accounting methods that considered Night Owl its own service, while other low-ridership trips got averaged into longer service periods. For example, the first few 77 bus trips on a Saturday morning might be very empty, but they get averaged together with more crowded trips. But the Night Owl had to stand on its own, even though it was supposed to be an extension of earlier services.
I'd like to see the T solicit bids for private operators to offer late-night service. If a route gets a bidder at a subsidy the T could pay, then then that route runs.
Hell
just add a 50-70% surcharge too. When cabs are $20 for 3-4 miles, you can't get one and you were just paying $5.50 for 12oz bud lights in the bars, I don't think it hurt use.
Night Owl Proposal
I believe that Mayor Menino is already working on restoring the Night Owl service which was eliminated back in 2005. Here is a link to a video about it:
http://tinyurl.com/7anxvla
Its not a bad idea. I remember in London always being able to catch a Night Bus back home from Trafalgar Square. The buses exactly paralleled the Underground lines which made it easy to use.
Is the T really capable of running 24 hours?
Or even running past midnight (or close to it)? A good amount of the system is older and needs maintenance. Doesn't some of this work require the tracks to be free of traffic?
Yes and No
The MTA manages. But one could probably find some statistic that shows more MTA worker injuries from being hit by trains than on the MBTA. This is because the MTA workers are doing maintenance on or next to live [in use] tracks.
The MBTA also has fewer instances of alternate tracks or sidings the trains could use if there was maintenance during business hours. Most of the system is two tracks only - one for each direction - with few if any junctions allowing for track switching.
Philadelphia's Green Line is
Philadelphia's Green Line is very similar to Boston's. They run it 24 hours a day, except one night per week when it closes for scheduled maintenance.
>> A good amount of the
>> A good amount of the system is older ...
I won't get into a discourse on whether the T can realistically run 24/7. One issue is certainly the lack of express tracks, but NY has whole lines, or sections of lines, that are only two tracks, and they manage to run 24/7. Granted, on all routes in NY, there are frequent late-night diversions, but the NY subway lines in general have more interconnectedness, such that trains can get around areas where maintenance is being performed.
However, the notion that the T is "America's oldest subway" and therefore needs a lot of maintenance is rubbish. Taken as an entire system, the NY subway is a good deal older overall than the T. Three stations on what's now the Green Line opened before 1900. In 1904, an entire 9-mile line with 28 stations opened in Manhattan. The NY subway of 1939 did not differ markedly from today's system.
They could
Chicago also runs 24-hour service on its two-track Red and Blue lines, which are underground in the "Loop" part of town.
Late at night, you can run sufficiently long headways to use single-tracking for substantial portions of the route. The other track can be taken out of service for maintenance.
Of course this requires a lot of coordination, and maybe the installation of a few more cross-overs and smaller power segments. In other words, impossible for the MBTA.
Luckily, a system as lightly used as the T can easily make do with Night Owl buses, much like San Francisco. Since late-night traffic isn't an issue, a system of routes could be concocted to operate cleanly if they wanted. A possible feature could be synchronized connections between buses, much like the T already does for the last run of the night, but which occur hourly between 1 and 5am.
Couple of things... 1) I like
Couple of things...
1) I like the idea of encouraging people to trickle out. Keep last call at 2 but allow the bars to stay open til 3 - keep the entertainment going, serve late-night eats and non-alcoholic drinks, and you won't have a drunken mob on the street every night at 2am.
2) Albany - has a lot of potential. 3 hours from Boston, NYC, a little further to Montreal, Buffalo, etc - crossroads to a lot of places. Gorgeous architecture, lots of history, built-in jobs base (state gov't), developing music and arts scene (food scene a bit behind). And let's not forget - bars open til 4! In a just world it would be the Austin of the Northeast.
3) Night Owl was designed to fail - a handful of buses that themselves stopped running at 2:30am that didn't accept monthly passes back in the pre-Charlie days. Who wants to fumble for a few bucks in change while already in the bag a little bit? And because the buses supposedly mirrored rail lines (though not exactly), it was always confusing as to where to get the bus and where you could get off.
4) They should run a select number of bus routes all night - just a few major ones like 1, 57, 66, 39, etc. Get partiers home after the trains stop, and get early-shift workers to their jobs on time. With the Charlie system it would be easier to charge a slightly higher rate if you wanted to, as most people either have a monthly pass or stored value on a card.
Licensing Board head: You can't just roll back hours
The Herald talks to Nicole Murati Ferrer, who educates the mayor that her board can only roll back hours in response to a specific incident, and there are none outstanding against any of the clubs in question (Perez's murder has not been linked to any as of yet).