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God is not happy with the proposed Suffolk Downs casino

A group of East Boston religious leaders today launched a campaign against the proposed resort casino at Suffolk Downs. As their Web site says:

Because we believe God has something better for East Boston than a casino.

More specifically, the clergy members say the casino would leader to more crime, addiction, traffic, pollution and bankruptcy and higher insurance rates.

East Boston residents vote in a referendum on Nov. 5 whether to accept the proposed $1-billion casino.

The Globe has more on the clergy effort.

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Comments

More specifically, the clergy members say the casino would leader to more crime, addiction, traffic, pollution and bankruptcy and higher insurance rates and lower bingo receipts

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Bingo is a thing of the past. The Mass. Lottery killed that.

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Believe what you will, but bingo is alive and well here in the Commonwealth.

You can play most nights per week if you live in Greater Boston and play for $5,000 jackpots.

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I believe God doesn't give a shit about the East Boston casino, one way or the other.

If only there was a way that we could figure out who is correct?

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The pull-quote is legitimately painful.

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Is that deity of theirs all-powerful or not? If so, then He should just do his plan thing already and make East Boston a better place now.

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I know you are all proud of your cynical, clever comments, but what do you think you would do if you had dedicated your life to trying to help people in a low income neighborhood that were about to be taken advantage of again. Even if you don't agree with their theology, these ministers are to be commended for trying to stand up against a corporation that is salivating over all of the loyal customers they want to tap in East Boston. Our city government is willing to sacrifice our lonely neighborhood for a wad of cash, so at least someone is trying to stand up for the little guy.

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What does God have to do with helping people in a low-income neighborhood? Um, nothing. It is entirely possible to dedicate your life to such pursuits without bringing God along for the ride. I know a number of people who do this.

Meanwhile, churches in general have a wonderful and rich history of exploitation in low income areas. Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with that history before declaring the motives of clergy to be pure, sacred and not subject to questioning.

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What does God have to do with helping people in a low-income neighborhood?

For many of these people, everything. Yes, it is entirely possible to dedicate your life to helping others without bringing God along for the ride, but for these people, God is the motivator. I don't think that deserves mocking.

And yes, churches have done bad things and we do well to learn from their mistakes. I am sorrowfully acquainted with that history. However, I'm also acquainted with many of these priests and pastors and I know a little about what they've sacrificed to help others. I know about how they've taken in refugees, fed people in housing projects, provided a loving place for people new to the country, and trust me, none of them are getting rich by serving in Eastie.

I appreciate most of your comments, but I felt the need to call out the snarkiness aimed at some people trying to help. Perhaps we would do better to acquaint ourselves with the practices of casinos who want their customers to play to extinction and care much more about money than most clergy trying to make a difference.

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Swirls , really , surely you have heard of Catholic Charities. Be nice now!

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That organization that wants to get state funding while still being allowed to deny health insurance coverage and adoption services to people whose lives they like to judge?

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Swirls . I said be nice ! While i am not a recipient of their services, they seem to have a web page offering adoption services. As with all things religious, you got to believe. And I believe they try to help poor people , usually from resources donated by people that believe in helping people. I do not participate in this chain for the tax deduction. Regards to you , my Swirls,

Sanctus, sanctus, sanctus
Dominus Deus Sabbaoth.
Pleni sunt caeli et terra gloria tua.
Hosanna in excelsis.
Benedictus qui venit in nomine domini.
Hosanna in excelsis.

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The Clergy is correct.

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If there's one thing the Church hates, it's competition. Casinos or churches, either way people are throwing their money away and getting nothing in return.
God can always be found in East Boston in the form of the large chicken Parm from the Meridian Market.

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Minutas at Frio Rico is the closest thing to divinity that I have found in East Boston. It's shaved ice with real fruit juice and it is amazing. I don't know how deep into the autumn season they serve these delights, But I recommend them to everyone. And you can get multiple flavors on one order, FYI.

http://www.friorico.com

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How about a large Meridian Special? Now that's divine.

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I'm not exactly a bible thumper, but really this comment is snarky nostril driller material. Yes, the reason why ALL these churches have come together to challenge the established business, social and political power structure in the communities they work in and receive sustenance from, is for revenue. The idea of their caring for the social welfare of people no one else gives a fuck about is just not an option. The couple hundred member Latino church with no money is the moral and effective equivalent of Caesar's Entertainment. I mean they both do pot lucks on Wednesday nights, right? And having faith and participating in a social manifestation of that faith definitely gives nothing in return. Riiight. Casinos on the other hand DO give something in return: a few hours of entertainment (if you like that sort of thing), petty crime, lost paychecks, missed mortgage payments, drunken driving, broken families, prostitution, decreased home values, traffic.....

You can talk up Meridian Market's sandwiches without the sophomoric snark. If you can't come up with a dig that's subtle, insightful or humorous and doesn't come off as something the slowest kid in the school yard shouts after everyone's gone in at recess, what the hell?

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I grew up in Revere, but for K-8, I went to the Sacred Heart School on Paris St. Now, I'm in East Boston every day. Last week I ate at the Kelley Sq Pub and after I decided to take a walk around my old neighborhood. It's a fucking pig sty. Trash everywhere, on the street, in the gutters and in the alleyways. If these clergy want to do something positive for East Boston, they can start by cleaning it up, not worrying about a fucking casino.

And spare me the nonsense about the spiritual benefits people take away from the Church. I was not willing to overlook the various abuses of women and children the men of the Church do in the name of God. No amount of communal worship can wipe away the sins of those who take money from those they claim to care about to pay for their serious lapses in morality. Should I paint all churches with such a broad brush? Probably not but at least with a casino you can get a buffet.

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Then why doesn't he just burn the casino down?

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Smite casinos from the face of the earth?

People know there used to be a dog track and gambling out that way, too. In fact, there's already gambling at Suffolk Downs. Right?

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I live up the hill from Kelly's and grew up in Saugus with relatives over here and in Revere. So, there's our bona fides for what that's worth. The trash around here in the streets is horrible. I know, I volunteer with groups over here working to improve the situation. I've done Boston Shines Days, park clean-ups and informational campaigns with youth on the topic. Some people who live in this neighborhood are trying to make it better.

You and Swirly really should get off the high hobby horse on the religion topic. I'm damn near an atheist at this point in my life (keeping in mind the priest at Blessed Sacrament in Saugus when I was born was John Geoghan) but if someone wants to have spirituality in their lives, knock yourself out, just don't try and convert me. These religious leaders are trying, like many other neighbors around here, to do what they think is right for their community. The community they're dedicated to serving (not just walking through after a night at Kelly's). I'm not going to get into the position of defending a couple few thousand years of shitty behavior on the part of organized religion, but you might as well complain about any and all conglomerations of humans that come together. They all end up killing people.

But the religion part just shows you and Swirly to be pretty self righteously uppity about plebes who rely on religion for whatever purpose in their lives, whatever. Have at it, just makes you guys look like Bizarro Westboro Baptists. The annoying part is to snarkily brush off efforts by people who are trying to improve things and then simultaneously bitch about what a dump the place is. Are you doing anything besides talking shit on the intertubes? Just one of those two shitty attitudes would be fine, but the two of them together really suck dry turds out of dead rats. Enjoy the buffet sunshine.

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you'll notice I never once knocked anyone for being spiritual, I knocked the centralized leaders of a religion that is as crooked as the US Congress, only with tackier clothes.And by stopping a casino, how exactly are they trying to improve things? Go to any bodega or gas station in Eastie and there's a plastic case with about 50 different scratch tickets in it and a line of people waiting to throw their money away, why don't they start there?

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Wouldn't exactly call the Whitman's sampler of Christian franchises represented in this group "centralized" but I get the point of "institution" vs. "spirituality." (Not sure if it's included, but there's a Latino church in Eastie that advertizes in the Latino papers and it looks like something out of an old west side show - "Lumbago! Makes old bodies new!")

I hear a lot of comparisons of the lottery to casinos which is true in regards that both prey off of some person's vice. The difference with the lottery is that a good portion of that goes back into municipalities around the state. Caesar's, et al, not so much. The sophistication of the psychological manipulation is a few light years ahead in the corporate instance as well. And last I checked they don't give out free drinks in the bodegas or suck away business from other establishments (except maybe bodegas that don't sell scratch cards).

Stopping a casino doesn't necessarily improve things, it just prevents them from getting worse, in my opinion. Some people think otherwise. Some people walk to school and some bring a lunch.

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Chicken parm , Spinelli's no contest. But the clergy are only stating the obvious, dont be smart linking the bingo gate and demeaning their concern. “Then render to Caesar what is of Caesar; and to God what is of God.” This is Caesar's gig. Does anyone really think a casino will enhance the quality of life for the people in that area ?, There will be no winners here.

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MS13

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four characters and you effectively illustrate that you're an ignorant, racist pea-minded troll who can go off topic so fast, it defies the laws of physics. and logic. such brevity and conciseness. slow golf clap for you my friend.

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He's just been holding out to "test" you, right?

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It is encouraging to see so many different denominations coming together to take care of their neighborhood. Casinos don't belong in dense, residential communities. More from their website:

We're a group of ministers in East Boston - representing various denomiations and multiple congregations - who believe our community deserves better than a casino.

We’ve come together because we’re for our neighborhoods and we’re for our children. Because we’re for safe communities and we're for local businesses. Because we're for whole lives and we're for wise living.

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I am pretty sure the Christian/New Testament flavor of God is big on free will and individuals rejecting temptation, not making temptation impossible to come by so everyone will be good by default.

So really, they should embrace the casino as a test they can pass and prove to their God what a good person they are.

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I don't even fucking LIKE religion (least of all fucking Evangelicals!) but you people sound like a pack Ayn Rand freaks! You do know that you sound like bigots, right? Elitist, look down your nose at the over-simplified strawman caricature that you're tossing out there asshats.

Last I checked every human institution has been responsible for some sort of atrocity over the course of our history. I'm assuming that you'd feel that any human institution that speaks out against a casino in Eastie must be made up of a bunch of simple-minded rubes who deserve to have their wallets and home mortgages extracted through their colons. It all seems more Herald and less UHub in tone.

("Because we believe God has something better for East Boston than a casino." - ok, I'll give you that there are probably some folks in that group who take that quote literally and I can only roll my eyes, but fuck, we're fighting a few million dollars in corporate PR campaigns - we'll take what we can fucking get.)

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I am for the casino and it has nothing to do with any corporation attempting to get me to say that. I'd be for a casino if the city ran it directly. I have no problem with casinos. Gambling is not a problem. Problem gambling is a problem. We can work to solve that problem the same way we don't turn to prohibition just because there are alcoholics in the world.

I have disposable income that I choose to spend on things that entertain me. Games of financial risk can be entertaining in the right setting and with the appropriate knowledge going into them that you're lucky if you win and should always plan around losing. Again, these aren't magical concepts that only I am privy to. We just have to do better at helping people determine if they have money to lose and understanding that they are more than likely to lose it (Ayn Rand?? Really? I'm pretty sure she would have tried to have me executed for saying that last sentence...when she wasn't cashing social security checks).

Secondly to your point about this particular situation, you're happy to have a man of faith pushing for God's better solution than a casino to help/save East Boston because at least it's somebody fighting for the point of view that you want to win. Well, I'm not...and it's not even because that's not my point of view.

I'm all for debating whether a casino is the best solution for East Boston at this time. We can discuss whether I put too much trust in the system to help protect the area citizens from problem gamblers turning to crime in order to fund their addictions. But none of this relies on the argument that we're going against "God" or somehow by installing a casino we'll be interfering with His master plan for East Boston. That's superstitious hogwash which isn't a debatable point and is paradoxically hypocritical at best. It's a conversation ender. I say "let's do a casino but let's discuss how to do the casino right" and he says "but God wants more for East Boston than a casino"...what's my response? "Nuh uh, God told me this is the best it's gonna get"? "Sorry but Poseidon is East Boston's controlling deity, not God. The moose out front should have told you that"?

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I agree with most of your posts but I guess we just agree to disagree on this one. I f you want to say gambling is like alcohol, then what we've done is said that there can be one liquor store in three different parts of the state and you trust the pols to divvy those licenses out justly and transparently. And no microbrews! Only Budweiser. I mean the city does a great job with the liquor licenses and cab medallions currently - how could this go wrong!

Before all this happened I generally did not have an opinion on gambling. Aside from the occasional lottery ticket for the hell of it, I don't do it and have no interest in it. And for others, well, have at it. But when a massive casino (and one that will be the most profitable in the western hemisphere, according to the proponent) wants to move into your n'hood, you tend to take a different position. Not in my fucking back yard. You think it's an amusing diversion, put it next to your house.

As far as the religious folks go - you would no doubt criticize them for having a literal interpretation of their religious texts - so why take what they say as a literal statement -- the priest at the Holy Redeemer REALLY believes that God has a master plan specifically for East Boston. The divine five-year plan that he and the angels had a planning charrette to develop. Maybe we can get an advance copy to hand off to the BRA since they just go with whichever developer sucks campaign cock the hardest. If we have the collared ones put this in nice non-secular, humanist terms would that work for people? Probably not. I think the point is that we as a society deciding to rely on vices as a means for income is not a particularly good thing, by any credo. But whatever, I'm tired of talking about it and no doubt you're tired of reading it.

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> "But when a massive casino (and one that will be the most profitable in the western hemisphere, according to the proponent) wants to move into your n'hood, you tend to take a different position."

No, I wouldn't. If there was any reason to drop it off in Brighton, they should feel free. As long as their comps are good and they don't gouge on the food prices, it'd be a nice change of pace to visit on occasion without even wanting to spend a penny (or 60 to get the 5x multiplier and cover all 12 betting lines) in the slots. If nothing else, it will be a more than just a mecca of gambling...it will be a cavalcade of commercial space. On off-season times, you can use it as a home-away-from-home without feeling the need to drop hundreds on a room at the Four Seasons downtown. Dozens of semi-fancy to fancy restaurants under one roof. Who knows, maybe we'll even get a Krispy Kreme back again like they have in Mohegan (the lines late at night at that place go down the hallway towards the garage!).

I just stayed at the Wynn in Vegas for a friend's destination wedding and if Wynn ends up being the East Boston winner (I honestly haven't kept track of who's bidding for which location), then this place is going to be extremely classy too and very generous to its patrons as well as its employees.

I get it. You don't want a casino and you're not thrilled about making money off of vices. I say we don't make ENOUGH money off of vices. That's what keeps them ugly vices that keep getting debated all the time. If we make them less profitable, then there aren't going to be as many places willing to open on the poor margins of profit and there's going to be fewer people willing to blow their money because nobody wants to put it all on one horse and then walk away 5 minutes later a loser...it doesn't feed the addiction. All of the bad things in the world are the playgrounds of the rich and the distractions allowed the paupers. There's no way to make that any different. The least we can do is make sure those who can't afford to do it don't do something stupid just for trying and that the rich fund the kinds of efforts we need them to fund and get a chance at a 100,000:1 shot so they don't think we only love them for their money.

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