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He might be alive because a Shell station on Memorial Drive only takes cash

The Globe has a long interview with the owner of the Mercedes SUV the bombing suspects allegedly carjacked. And Kevin Cullen recounts the Watertown firefight and the race to save Richard Donohue's life.

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Comments

Seriously, what would it take to gain access to Dzhokhar at this point? What are the prices of those guarding him? I see the One Fund has $20 million. Two million? Three million? This is Massachusetts...we're all on the take at some point. Hell, look at the people we keep electing that end up as Speaker of the House.

He's not going to get a fair trial anyway, and there's tangible proof that he carjacked a guy, which, frankly, is a good enough reason for the scumbag to die anyway. Let's get the families of the victims into the hospital room, stick a ball gag in his mouth, cut off his fingers and toes one by one, then yank out all his teeth and finally behead him.

All on live television, too. That'll be seen by everybody on Earth, and teach the other terrorist pieces of garbage that the next time you try to commit a terrorist act, you'd best be wearing a suicide vest.

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Sorry the Constitution offends you. More important, violent fantasies aren't really good for you and do nothing to make your case.

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What, that thing that was drawn up by people who lived in a world free of pressure cookers, assault rifles, the Internet, and thousands of other advances?

The Constitution does not offend me. The idea that it holds all the answers in 2013 America is a ridiculous notion (but not an offensive one.)

Honestly, Adam, I'm surprised by your response. You're a level-headed guy who gives measured responses to everything. What does me seeking a punishment for a carjacker and grenade thrower (both of which are far more provable than the marathon bombing) have to do with the Constitution?

I'm not buying that courts work in this country. I'm just not. I've read about the shortage of judges and backlog of cases. At the very least, can't we put him in the hole with Sandusky while he awaits trial? He's still boyish looking...the coach will have a field day splitting him in half.

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You might want to look up the theory behind "rule of law."

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He's a convenient punching bag and a great reminder of why democracy works because idiots like him are unable to generate enough support to implement any of their ideas.

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Usually.

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Although I'm unaware of any national candidate whose been elected on a terrorist toe plucking platform.

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Maybe not, but there are plenty of elected officials at the state and local level, all over the country, whose understanding and analysis of terrorism and/or the Constitution is pretty much on a par with Will's here.

And there was certainly no shortage of United States Senators calling for this US citizen who committed an act of criminal violence on US soil to be immediately removed from the criminal justice system and treated like an enemy combatant.

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That's fair. I'm not certain what clause of the Constitution bars us from having a law where we get to make a U.S. citizen an enemy combatant.

And if we can't do that, maybe it's time to stop granting U.S. citizenship to persons born outside of the United States.

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It doesn't sound like there's any "maybe" about it.

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If that's not an act of war, I don't know what is. "U.S. citizen" doesn't feel like an acceptable reason not to try him as a war criminal.

If police officers kept grenades in their utility belts, I'd be more inclined to view them as tools of self-defense. They are not. They exist to blow people up.

Honestly, I want to know why we haven't seen videotape of the grenades being thrown yet. Don't cruisers have cameras on the dashboard?

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and then feel free to rant (to almost quote Mark Twain).

No matter how much you jump up and down, these two bozos were/are U.S. citizens or in this country, legally. And, on top of that fact and under the law, the younger brother will be tried as a citizen not as an enemy combatant as there is no evidence, under the said law, that shows he would fit the bill as an enemy combatant. Whether certain senators disagree with the law means nothing. And whether you disagree with the law, also means nothing (but you have a right to your opinion, of course).

Oh, heck, just read this, it might help you understand the concept:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/20...

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Again, stop granting citizenship. And if we can, allow U.S. citizens to be tried as war criminals. Or at the least, get treason charges to stick. Honestly, I don't have a better immediate answer to fixing the terrorist problem in this country.

Either we care, or we don't care. Either it bothers you that Jeff Bauman is a paraplegic, or it doesn't. It bothers me. Ultimately, there is a level on which we care about these things.

Really, you know what I take away from these attacks? I have a greater interest in working for the FBI. I don't know if I'd hack it though...I have a short temper and I don't quite have the stomach for confrontation that I might otherwise indicate through my blustering in the UH comments.

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guarantee you will never work for the FBI. It's also clear you don't have the required education and wouldn't pass their personality tests.

By the way trivia guy, there is a difference between a paraplegic and an amputee. Unless Bauman had some spinal injuries I have not read about, you again don't know what you are talking about.

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You got me on that one.

As for my education, I'm actually quite bright. I have no idea why this is being brought up either. My initial post proposed a scenario in which somebody seeking physical revenge against Tsarnaev might bribe a prison guard for access to him to carry out acts that the legal system can't legally bring against him as punishment.

I know that he has the right to a frickin' trial. I'm not 10. So, beyond that, I'm not sure how the United States Constitution or my level of education (high school diploma, BTW) really play into what I said initially.

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If you're not ten, stop acting like it. It's obvious you haven't studied or thought these things through when you say:

"He's not going to get a fair trial anyway, and there's tangible proof that he carjacked a guy, which, frankly, is a good enough reason for the scumbag to die anyway. Let's get the families of the victims into the hospital room, stick a ball gag in his mouth, cut off his fingers and toes one by one, then yank out all his teeth and finally behead him."

OR

"What, that thing that was drawn up by people who lived in a world free of pressure cookers, assault rifles, the Internet, and thousands of other advances?"

Shooting your mouth off about things you haven't bothered to understand marks you as a fool, regardless of your IQ or education. The founding fathers never heard of the internet, so I guess we should only have free speech if it's written with a quill pen. Idiot.

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Just because I'm not sure the Constitution applies to 2013 society doesn't mean I don't think we shouldn't have free speech. When did I say that?

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I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're not one of them "thinking types" are you?

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Stop digging that hole any deeper. You're not winning any converts to your way of thinking here.

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look, I don't think it is cool to stop granting citizenship to people who wish to come here - ain't going to happen anyway. And that presupposes that all the terrorist acts in this country are or were being done by immigrants or folks in this country illegally which is so very wrong and a very dangerous way to think about it.

Aside from the 9.11 attackers, most (maybe all?) of all the "terrorist" attacks in this country were homegrown: Tim McVeigh, the UnaBomber, the Newtowne shooter. If you want to stop terrorist acts in this country we have to take a serious look at our own country and really start to ask why we appear to have so many alienated young men who, for some, decide to blow people up. And we, as a nation, have to try to understand the radicals in other countries and why invading said other countries might feed in to and/or add fire to their twisted world view and then think twice about invading.

This, in my opinion, is how you begin to combat terrorism.

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People are alienated because we make fun of them for being the weird kid. I guess step one is keep on being nice to people. And if you are going to make fun of people, make sure it's clear that you also care about them.

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When did your ancestors first arrive in this country?

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1620, Mayflower.

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You are a pitiful troll and a sad, sad man.

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There are some people who walked over who have a prior claim.

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before you make yourself look any more foolish. You run a business that relies on people wanting to be in the same room with you. Posting idiotic stuff on the internet, under your fairly unique given name, is not going to help business. Seriously, if you admit you "maybe don't understand the constitution", perhaps you should go educate yourself prior to shooting your mouth off.

I've read enough of your knee-jerk calls for the death penalty and extrajudicial violence to know I don't want anything to do with you. I doubt I'm in the minority. If ran a bar, and was thinking about hiring you and came across this crap? No way.

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Otherwise poor old little me would starve to death.

Do you feel better now that all that's out of your system?

Also, at no point did I introduce the Constitution to this whole discussion. Gaffin did. The Constitution doesn't stop the hypothetical taking of a bribe any more than a "keep off the grass" sign actually keeps people off the grass.

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Well then, that straightens everything out then...

...you didn't introduce the Constitution to the conversation, you just impugned the reputation of random law enforcement officers (who im pretty sure you dont know) by implying that for the right amount of money, they would gladly turn over a high-value terror suspect to a mob to be tortured and killed. And you base this on what...gut feeling? Something you read in a Tom Clancy novel? The voices in your head?

Yeah, you're right...Adam introducing the Constitution was so much worse.

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The fact that there is an established precedent in this community of public officials taking bribes. That's it. Nothing any more fanciful than that.

Do I think every cop is dishonest? No. Do I think that maybe there's a cop out there with four kids in college and a sick wife who really really needs the money and might take a bribe out of need and not sheer avarice? I don't think it's impossible.

Maybe my perpetual distrust of people makes me a big jerk. That's okay...I guess I lose this one. I don't win 'em all.

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You would actually equate someone stuffing $500 in their bra for a liquor license to a random law enforcement officer, sworn to protect others lives, taking a wad of money to allow a suspect to be tortured and killed by a mob for sport?

I don't know whether to call you vile or stupid

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.

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That's fair. I'm not certain what clause of the Constitution bars us from having a law where we get to make a U.S. citizen an enemy combatant.

I suppose you could, but such decisions could then be challenged under the habeas corpus clause in Art. I, s. 9, and also per the due process clause in the 5th Amend., or so I would imagine.

Anyway, why? If you're confident that he's guilty, a trial will surely have the outcome you expect, and is not objectionable. But without a trial there will always be doubt as to whether the government got the right guy, or if they screwed up and caught an innocent, which not only is bad for the innocent person who is jailed without a trial, but also means we stop looking for the real culprit. Trials are important for quality assurance.

And you may like to remember the words of a prominent Bay Stater on a similar incident of mass violence:

The Part I took in Defence of Cptn. Preston and the Soldiers, procured me Anxiety, and Obloquy enough. It was, however, one of the most gallant, generous, manly and disinterested Actions of my whole Life, and one of the best Pieces of Service I ever rendered my Country. Judgment of Death against those Soldiers would have been as foul a Stain upon this Country as the Executions of the Quakers or Witches, anciently. As the Evidence was, the Verdict of the Jury was exactly right.--John Adams, writing about his defense of the British soldiers who committed the Boston Massacre. (The captain and six of the eight soldiers were acquitted)

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Because none of Will's horrific ideas have been implemented. The whole point of the original comment is that goofballs like Will are in the minority and can't get this batshit stuff made into law. Even the Patriot Act, as draconian as it may be, is nowhere near Will's madness.

I think in your zest to criticize the right wing, you misread the post.

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The analogy I like to bring up here is O.J.'s 2007 trial in which he "took back" his memorabilia. Do you really believe that he got the lengthy sentence he got because of possession of some goods that may or may not have been his? No, he got his sentence because he killed two people.

Oh, wait, he was criminally acquitted of that? Then why do we keep publicly claiming that he did it? That 2007 sentence was because he killed two people. No lawyer, prosecutor, or judge could ever publicly admit that, but the subtlety is clear. That sentence for that crime is clearly a make-up call.

Similarly, I think that one could gain access to Tsarnaev and get away with it. It's a small world, but there are a lot of secrets out there. Now that he's been moved to Devens, it's a lot easier to get at him. None of you believe that a prison guard close enough to retirement would take a big bribe from somebody to allow access?

That's what this is all about. I wasn't arguing the merits of the Constitution in the first place, I'm presenting a scenario in which a Constitutionally guaranteed trial might be bypassed by people with money, power, and influence, which might all be stronger in practice than the Constitution.

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it makes you look like an idiot.

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You've advocated the suspension of the Constitution and torture of a suspect. So in other words, you want to show the world that mob rule is OK? Glad you're not in charge.

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I'm just saying that the opportunity for mob-style retribution might be for sale.

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"I believe in the free market too!"

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you watch too much "SVU".

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Protects the rest of the world from uncivilized meat-heads like you.

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His rantings here and elsewhere fit the profile of the sort of young man who decides with great moral fervor that his absolutist thinking is correct, the constitution is wrong and doesn't matter, therefore the government is wrong, and that he MUST take action against EVILDOERS.

That's Tamerlan's profile, too.

Maybe Will should be jailed for preterrorism? ... Oh, wait ... Constitution.

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For tapping the side of one's nose. ;) :)

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Anyone?

I love the huge portrait's of Patrick Stewart but I'm looking for a little couple character job.

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IMAGE(http://r19.imgfast.net/users/1912/17/66/18/smiles/749317.gif)

And for those time that need an epic palm, there's always Sisko

IMAGE(http://r19.imgfast.net/users/1912/17/66/18/smiles/65932.gif)

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Your job is basically about being fun at parties. How is this guy suppose to be fun at parties?

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I know how and when to turn it on and off.

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Hey I know an Elvis impersonator you should team up with!

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this thread certainly disproves that idea...

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... know how to turn it off. My group left our normal trivia night once you started hosting due to your dumb remarks and commentary that truly only you ever found funny.

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"Once I started hosting?" I've not since 2006 taken over somebody else's event on a regular weekly basis. Anecdote or you're full of it.

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Please do correct me if I have my timeline wrong, but my crew and I were at Green Briar for Stump Trivia and I was fairly certain that you started hosting after we started going and there was a different TJ initially - Bob hosted for a bit. It's entirely possible that I am misremembering and that we switched from a different Stump-related bar to Green Briar and that you were, in fact, already the host, but it was a few years ago. However, it seems to be completely irrelevant to my point that we liked other Stump Trivia hosts, but found you less than enjoyable. My understanding is that you parted ways with them anyway. Just because someone doesn't like you, doesn't mean they're "full of it", by the way. I am just sick of your ridiculous trolling on UH and wanted to let you know that it does potentially have repercussions on your professional reputation. You're no Howard Stern, Will.

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I was never the regular host, but I filled in frequently as Bob became more concerned with growing the company.

I don't recall having said anything offensive to you, whoever you are. I haven't been in the Briar in ages, but I'm admired in good standing by all who worked there and played there in my time hosting for Stump. You appear to be an exception.

In any case, I thank you for all your past support of what I do, and God bless you.

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...this is quite the ree-dick-u-lous derail people.
And makes it hard to follow the Shell Station story.

Especially if this is an Anonymous vs. Named pissing contest.

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post.
double post...still less annoying that pissing contests.

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Something tells me that in the near future some neighhborhood's going to be locked down as authorities try to locate YOU!

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wait, so the guy was carjacked in Allston? Is this news to anyone else? All the maps were showing third street in Cambridge...

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I admit I didn't link to the Journal report because it had two glaring errors that made me question the whole thing - they said Brighton Avenue is in Brighton and that the gas station in question was in Watertown.

Speaking of the gas station, that was another surprising thing in the Globe interview. The initial accounts were that the bombers let the guy out at the gas station because he wasn't American. In fact, he says in the interview he escaped. I suspect this won't be the last part of the story we find out was wrong.

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Anybody have a map/timeline of what their route was? All this time I assumed they carjacked this man in Cambridge. Why did they go to Brighton after killing Collier?

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I think after killing the cop (which wasn't initially part of their plan to leave town) they had three thoughts: get money, get a new car, and get away from Cambridge/Kendall/MIT.

They probably hit Memorial Drive by going down Vassar at which point, they crossed the BU Bridge to put more logical distance from Cambridge. They went down Comm Ave through Packard's Corner where they found Danny in his Mercedes on Brighton Ave. and figured it was an easy mark and hung a u-turn.

My other supposition would be that they went down Memorial Drive after Vassar to hit the Pike entrance at the Allston tolls to go to NYC. But it finally dawns on them that they had no cash, no gas, and worried about being in a marked car. So, they skipped the ramp entrance to the Pike and ended up on Cambridge St. looking for a mark. They hang a left off of Cambridge St. (maybe even into the Linden St. cut-through) figuring there would be someone around Allston to nab and find Danny just a block down Brighton Ave. and see him as a target.

The second supposition even sends them past the gas station at Mem Drive and River St prematurely, thus placing it at the front of their minds as a place to fuel up before hitting the highway when the one in Waltham fails to be open.

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...the reported "device" found near Charlesgate? Would this have been placed during these hypothetical wanderings, perhaps?

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I think that's a pretty good guess about it! I think we now have a better idea of why Allston & Brighton were included in the initial lockdown area. I'll bet there was a fear that the bombers may have left bombs in those neighborhoods.

Speaking of which, yeah, what did happen with the pipe bomb at Charlesgate? It was reported, and the reason for the remainder of Boston to be put on lockdown last Friday morning. Since then, however, I haven't heard or read anything about it.

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Why was there a pipe bomb at the Charlesgate? Was it placed deliberately, or did they drop it?

I wonder if they ran over the Mass Ave bridge or hopped on the 1/CT1 after the MIT shooting and just dropped the pipe bomb on the way out to Allston via the B-line or 57 bus.

It would really make me feel better if the police would provide some resolution on that pipe bomb, though. I hate the thought of there being random bombs scattered through the city like land mines.

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Deadspin just put out a really good timeline/map:

http://deadspin.com/the-boston-bombing-suspects-fi...

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Was just about to post it myself...this is by far the best account, and makes sense.

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Love this comment:

For a guy who felt alone and out of place in America, Tamerlan did the most Boston thing possible:
"Leave the city? Are you fackin retahded Jahah? Why would we want to go beyond one twenty-eight?"

The map also makes it obvious how "townie" they were... out of gas on the way west in Watertown and the only place they can think to go is back to River Street.

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They didn't even try to use the super awesome on-board computer thingy in the Mercedes to find an open gas station in their desired get away direction.

Even my GPS had this capability, as does any iPhone with google.

That astounds me. Yes, there are open ones on Mem Drive ... but there are also open ones in Waltham along 128.

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Great timeline by Deadspin.

But I was wondering this when they brought the dead guy to BI and then first reports were the cop went there and then the 2nd guy went there.

Do they have some amazing trauma center I'm not aware of?

Seems like BMC or MG would be first choices but the deadspin article says it was protocol to go to BI.

Any info, folks?

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No clue why not MGH, since I'd think it'd be about the same distance from Watertown (somebody correct me), but BMC is another couple miles away, which might make a difference.

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BIDMC was the only hospital w/o victims from the attack.
MGH refused to take the brother once captured, expressly b/c of the sheer number of long term victims they had.

The cop actually went to Mt.Auburn.

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Where else would you take Muslim terrorists but to Beth Israel?

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I thought I've been pretty calm through this, but upon learning that the carjacking was actually in what I consider my neighborhood, I admit to a totally irrational break out of a cold sweat...

I think this is pretty good evidence of a wanna-be terrorist and his sycophant brother. Unfortunately not too much skill was needed for the initial attack; fortunately they were totally incompetent in carrying it any further. I understand that NY has made a stink about not being told immediately that NY was mentioned at some point Thursday/Friday, but in all honesty A) What self-respecting terrorist doesn't have NY in their sights, and B) This "cell" (term used very loosely) was never any real danger to NY.

I do think this incident shows that while perhaps organized Al Qaeda threats are no longer what they once were, we still have to be on the look-out for the wanna-bes. Molesting people looking to get on airplanes or subway cars isn't going to get us much, but keeping an eye out for dissatisfied members of society might go farther to making us safer.

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The Globe had it a few days ago too ": On Thursday night and Friday morning, the brothers allegedly killed Collier, carjacked a motorist in Allston...."
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/201...

But the initial reports from police said it happened in Cambridge.

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I saw Allston in one or two media articles, I just assumed that the out-of-town media couldn't tell the difference between Lower Allston and Cambridge because of Harvard's presence.

This is actually quite frightening to me- I live near there and walk there all the time. That stretch of Commonwealth Avenue is full of people either confused by the road or using it as a speedway to test the prowess of their luxury car engine. Aside from the fact that it disgusts me that they were anywhere NEAR me and my apartment, it's frightening to think how truly dangerous some of those nuisances could be.

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Menino: "Much like a cookie, terrorism will crumble"

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At this point, I'm simply inclined to pat him on the head and give him a cookie.

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The "cash only" thing gave me pause. I'm certain I've paid with a credit card at the pump at that gas station before. What gives? Maybe something was broken? Lucky if so.

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For security reasons, they don't want their solitary night shift attendents leaving the booth (perhaps to deal with a 'busted' credit card reader, for example), so they make it so all transactions have to go through the booth window.

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Ah, that makes sense, thanks. Should have figured that.

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The story doesn't make sense. Following their steps of travel just doesn't sound like they were trying to get away, let alone to NYC. Carjack started on Brighton Ave then to Comm Ave then into Brighton to Watertown and then back track to Cambridge (where they allegedly killed an officer) to stop on Mem. Drive for gas albeit just minutes from MIT? After losing the hostage, flee back to Watertown for a gun fight?

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There was some Armenian guy named Misha whom influenced the older brother. Odds are they were trying to meet up with him in Watertown prior to heading to NYC. The whole MIT thing doesn't make sense unless they were looking to do something at that campus, or on their way from packing up at their house in East Cambridge, decided a campus cop would be an easy target to steal additional arms from.

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That's where they dropped off the old sedan (aka the Green Honda). They still had explosives in there that they wanted to get.

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As best as I can figure: they carjacked him and headed west in their mini caravan. They stopped in Watertown to transfer all their bombs from the second car. Then they decided to drive to Manhattan, but soon realized they didn't have enough gas. They also seemed disappointed at the lack of music in the Mercedes which is the only reason I can think to go back to the abandoned car: to get their CDs. That really emphasizes how young they are, and how much they were making this up as they went.

Then they couldn't find an open gas station, so they did what many people in the area do late at night: head to the Shell and Mobil at River St that are always open. If Danny had had a full tank of gas it would not have ended well for him.

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Interesting that the two had the "he has an expensive car so he must be rich" mentality; when in reality a lot of people buy over their heads just to have a nice car.

Yah, the story had my blood boiling as well. Why even keep the guy - why not just take the car and go?

As for fair trial - I'm sure the guy is spilling his guts in exchange for a guilty plea, no trail and life in jail.

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They needed cash & he only had $45. They drove him to an ATM and took $800 out.

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$50k Mercedes, doesn't want to be on TV, entrepreneur etc etc, we are not being told the whole story.

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Conspiracy theory much? This is why they never go away. Because people can say "There is always something we don't know! What color were his shoes?????" THEY DIDN'T SAY!" This is an ongoing investigation, hence why a lot of information is withheld until trial. Like, this is insanity. What do you think the whole story is? Do you want to pontificate about this man's harrowing night? Do you want to draw conclusions from spotty info due to a criminal investigation and impending trial?

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or maybe ignoramus morons who believe everything they read on the internet. The guy was carjacked, but no CCTV video exists of this happening or his vehicle driving around? Somebody knocks on your window and you roll the window down? Sounds like a drug deal gone real bad. Don't be an idiot. The sun's not coming out tomorrow.

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This way, you can rant, rave and fume all you want BUT you don't know who he is and, therefore, can't call him at all hours of the day to harass, harangue, threaten, and fling hateful accusations at him.

Like the tin foil hat crowd did to make the survivors and aggrieved families of Aurora and Newtown far more miserable than anyone should have to be.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/11/1769984...
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2013/0116/Sandy-Hook-...

If the paranoid lunatics could contain their moronic conspiracy theories and merely talk among themselves, he might be willing to out himself.

Somebody knocks on your window and you roll the window down?

no CCTV video exists of this happening

I take it that you ain't from around here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI6Qdoq679I

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I love that "doesn't want to be on tv" is considered cause for suspicion. Believe it or not, there are still places in the world where getting your face on tv isn't the best thing that could happen to you.

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Good thing the carjacking victim was Chinese, i.e., to the terrorists, he appeared to be a non-American so they let him live.

Imagine if the car owner had been gay? Jewish? Jewish and gay?
Islamic fanaticism doesn't hold either of those groups in high regard. We'd probably be holding another funeral this week.

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He is smart and adaptable in his responses.

He has good friends and a caring housemate who look out for him.

He now has the attention of that woman he was interested in in NYC. I'm so hoping that works out for them ... it would indeed be a treat if his thinking of never seeing her again combined with his playing a big role in bringing down some bad guys turned her head.

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