They're up, they're down, they're up again: Ads about Palestine on the T

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    Numerous complaints?

    By on

    That's for sure considering the posters are complete lies.

    Israel needs better PR firms - it needs to come out with some ads/posters refuting this with the truth. The danger is, though, that low-information people might believe this crap.

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    So what is the lie?

    A complete lie? The map looks pretty good but I am only googling this, can you cite a differing view (or at least articulate what the lie is)?

    Also, Israel has a great PR machine. Who do you think got American news coverage to switch wording on Israeli* "settlements" to "neighborhoods"?

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    The map kind of neglects the

    By on

    The map kind of neglects the whole Jews being expelled by surrounding countries during the same time periods. Also glosses over the fact that Palestine was never a country but a creation of the British. The indigenous peoples were the same peoples as the current citizens of Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt. Following each attempt at exterminating Israel those bordering countries arbitrarily decided to revoke citizenship of anyone within the new Israeli borders leaving them permanently refugees. You could be an Egyptian family with a thousand year lineage living on land which became Israeli following a war and suddenly told you are no longer Egyptian, but Palestinian and not allowed to enter Egypt. Oh, and your children's children's children can never gain citizenship status anywhere as your refugee label is permanent.

    Any uprising by the Palestinian 'refugees' in Egypt, Jordan, etc. to regain their rights as descendants of former citizens gets brutally put down with little attention from the media.

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    Relevance?

    By on

    And what relevance is any of that (if we are even to assume it's all true without addressing it factually) to the fact that Palestinian land continues to shrink according to nobody's plans except Israel's?

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    So, map is real just part of the story.

    By on

    I see you are prone to exaggeration by calling the map a lie. Your explanation doesn't even acknowledge the map. Instead you explain that the story is more complex. I think everyone knows it is more complex than a map but your credibility is destroyed by claiming it is a lie then not even bothering to explain why you call it a lie.

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    I'm not the original poster

    By on

    I'm not the original poster and I never called the map a lie.

    The map does omit that fact that "Palestine" was a British mandate which included parts of Jordan. The Palestinians living in Jordan however don't have citizenship. They most recently rose up against the king following the first gulf war demanding recognition and were slaughtered. Similarly those living in Iraq didn't fare too well when Saddam's personal protection ceased during the second gulf war.

    As I inferred the Palestinian people weren't a distinct ethnic group but part of the same peoples which now reside in Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon. If a person was unlucky enough to be on the wrong side of a border change their citizenship disappeared overnight and they got labeled a Palestinian. Or if they happened to be Jewish and on the Arab side of the border they were deported to Israel.

    A perpetual refugee status is applied to all Palestinians regardless of the family providence and century long connections to what are bordering countries. They are every bit as oppressed by Israel's neighbors as Israel itself. The perpetual refugee status allows those countries to use them in proxy warfare. Until Israel's neighbors are willing along with Israel to accept the Palestinians as citizens or an independent state there won't be peace.

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    what's wrong with the maps

    By on

    There are a number of issues with the map:

    1. Panel 1 shows Jewish land in white and Palestinian land in green. This is inaccurate. It appears to classify all land not owned by Jews as Palestinian. This ignores two important considerations: first, much of the south includes the Negev desert which was sparsely populated. According to British surveys about 91% of the Beersheba subdistrict was considered uncultivable at that time. (see Kenneth Stein in The Land Question in Palestine). Second, the map also lumps in land owned by the government and by churches with Arab lands. Overall it is accurate to suggest that Palestinians owned the majority of the land, but the map exaggerates the figures. In One Palestine Complete, Tom Segev puts the percentage of Jewish land ownership at 10% of total land and 25% of land considered fit for habitation.
    2. Panel 2 accurately reflects the partition plan, but neglects to mention that the plan was rejected by the Arab side.
    3. Panel 3 accurately reflects the so-called "green line". However, one might point out that the region ended up with these borders and not the Partition plan borders because the Arab side chose to go to war rather than to accept the partition plan. It also neglects to mention that the West Bank was occupied by Jordan and the Gaza Strip by Egypt during this period.
    4. Panel 4 is quite misleading because it depicts something very different from panels 1 and 3. What we're seeing here are divisions of how the West Bank is administered according to the Oslo Accords. In other words, this is a negotiated division of administration between the Palestinian Authority and the Israelis and is designed to be transitional. If the peace process is successful the map will look much more like Panel 3, perhaps with certain adjustments. In other words, if the series of maps is trying to show "loss of land" then there's nothing that's been "lost" between panels 3 and 4.

    The TL;DR here is that you have four different maps that are labeled as if they all show the same thing, but in actuality they show very different things. Panel 1 attempts to show land ownership by individuals. Panel 2 shows a proposal for political control. Panel 3 shows political control. Panel 4 shows administrative control but not ownership or political sovereignty.

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    Poe's Law

    By on

    Congrats. I can't tell if this is parody or the real thing.

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    Israel was founded in 1948

    The inclusion of maps from 1946 and 1947 to illustrate the loss of "Palestinian" land is an important part of the (very effective) effort to de-legitimize the state of Israel. When Hamas, for example, talks of ending the "occupation", they are speaking of the occupation of the "historical", pre-1948 land of Palestine. In other words, ending occupation means ending Israel. When you begin with the 1946 map, this is the position you are tacitly endorsing. I believe this is why many people object to the ads.

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    Not sure about the equivalence of Hamas and this group

    By on

    Actually, I am sure. The ad-buying group isn't advocating terror or the eradication of Israel. Quite the contrary, it seems.
    From their website http://cjpip.org

    "Committee for a Just Peace in Israel and Palestine is a diverse, community-based group dedicated to organizing activities and educational events that advance the cause of peace and justice for both Palestinians and Israelis.

    WE SUPPORT:

    equal rights and access to resources for all inhabitants of the region, based on principles of social, economic, environmental, and political justice.
    peace and justice activities in Israel, Palestine, and the U.S.
    an end to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem, in accordance with international law and U.N. resolutions.
    an end to U.S. policies that sustain the occupation.
    international support for an equitable and just negotiation process.
    a resolution to the Palestinian refugee issue in accordance with international law and human rights principles.
    an end to all forms of terror: state, organizational, and individual."

    Seems pretty reasonable to me.

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    I'm tired of this incessant

    By on

    I'm tired of this incessant whining. If Israel and its supporters truly command the higher moral ground why are their supporters trying to suppress free speech?

    Got something to hide?

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    That's the equivalent of

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    That's the equivalent of asking an opponent in a debate "when did you stop beating your wife" "oh you deny ever beating you wife?"

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