Trayvon Martin vigil and protest Sunday in Dudley Square

Starts at 6 p.m. at the T stop.

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Rationale, please?

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When is the vigil for thirty-or-so people who have been murdered in Boston so far this year? This reeks of political opportunism.

It's because when 1000 people

It's because when 1000 people on facebook change their profile picture and use hashtag #hoodiesup, it's easier to jump in to show "support" rather than to do anything about it.

The GZ case showed that social justice is a failure compared to actual justice. You make claims on hard physical evidence to get the truth out rather than using emotional hyperbole and calling people racist.

2 BIG questions about killing and justice

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The not guilty verdict means the jury had insufficient evidence and it doesn't change the fact George Zimmerman killed an unarmed kid, allegedly in self-defense.

Why isn't Trayvon entitled to the right of self-defense?

Why isn't Trayvon entitled to the presumption of innocence?

Adam, did you really post this?

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One of the opening lines to your link reads: "Amerikkka the blood is on your hands." Amerikkka? Even President Obama distanced himself, at least publicly, when tape surfaced of his own spiritual leader, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, using similar "Amerikkka" terminology.

Peacefully protest (or celebrate) the verdict all you want, but to refer to this great country with the KKK label in protest of a well-thought out verdict in a Hispanic vs. Black shooting, serves only to trivialize the horrors committed by Sen. Robert Byrd (D-W.VA) and countless other Southern Democrat Klansman when the KKK was relevant.

Absolutely right

It's kind of you to post such enlightening information and I'm sure the participants in the rally would appreciate receiving it as well. Do you need a ride down there?

You are amazing, I;ll give you that

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Typical Sean Hannity answer. "Oh, Robert Byrd and the Southern Democrats were the real racists" Well, aren't you glad the Republicans have proudly assumed that mantle now?

And BTW, I've never felt that anything that Rev Wright said was wrong, and it's the real racists that tried to use him as race bait in their efforts to keep the black man out of the white House.

You're making Hannity look like a MENSA candidate

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Describing 9/11, Wright said "America's chickens are coming home to roost!"

So you agree with this third rate mountebank, that Jihad-addled Saudis flying jets into American buildings and killing 3000 people, is my fault, and your fault? That we caused the attack?

You want to throw that into reverse for a moment? You sound like a moron.

And here's a news flash. Calling out a black religious arsonist doesn't make the caller a racist. Just like trashing Father Coughlin doesn't make the trasher anti-catholic.

Hannity speaks, from the Left

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Hey, Dvdoff, it's Wright and you who apparently believe that I caused the attack.

Want to tell me what, exactly, I did? How I and my family are culpable? My children are teenagers now, and will be surprised to hear that they caused this, as they were young children in 2001.

And if all American are collectively guilty and deserve to be punished, are all Moslems Jihadists, and equally to blame for the attack itself? If I see one, should I do attack him or her?

9/11

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No one wants to look hard at our policies throughout the world to see why so many 3rd world countries hate us. Looking at yourself is hard. And no, sitting in our little house in a subdivision with our 2 kids we ourselves did not actively DO anything to hurt other people in the world, but by blindly letting our government for the past 20 years or more oppress, manipulate and... steal from these countries... we are guilty... by omission. Sin, omission or commission ... culpable for both.

You're really blaming 9/11 on the United States?

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So, the 3000 innocent people murdered deserved it because the terrorists had a good point about US policy?

You're a clown. Maybe even more of a clown than Doug Bennett.

Did I say that?

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Dis I say that's why 3000 people died? Seems to me all I asked was why this person thought 9/11 happened and the two of you took my question as license to call me names and make it as if I blamed his children.

And I'm the clown?

You're not half as cute as you think you are.

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You said you agreed with what Wright had to say about 9/11.
Wright claimed 9/11 was a result of America's chickens coming home to roost - ie the US was to blame for 9/11.
Ergo, you believe the US was to blame for 9/11.

Backpedal like Devin McCourty all you want.

On the larger point, I don't think Obama should be criticized for Wright's statements. It's pretty obvious Wright is an outlier and Obama doesn't agree with his extremist views. Blaming Obama for Wright is akin to blaming Catholics for the actions of disgraced priests.

That's the reasoned defense of Obama's attendance at Wright's parish. You, as is typical, went a bridge too far and defended Wright's absurd statements.

As is typical what?

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I seem to think out of the two of us, you seem to be the typical wrap myself in the flag and believe the government has nothing but our best interests in mind person. You and your friend seem to think I was blaming 9/11 on his kids, which I wasn't or blaming you and your beliefs. Put the flag down for two seconds, read something other than the Herald or watch something other than Fox News and you might learn a little more about what our government is doing to keep the gas in your tank and the GMO food on your table.

Speaking of Rev Wright, it is kind of funny that they only time I hear mention of Rev Wright nowadays is on Fox News and Sean Hannity's show.

Regardless of the latter part

Regardless of the latter part of the post, it really is shameful for you to post a link with that kind of headline, Adam. That kind of inflammatory remark is no better than the #killzimmerman shit on twitter and provokes people into doing things like reposting that old couple's address that Spike Lee did.

It could have been a vigil just for the fact that a kid died, but no, they have to claim it's everybody's fault but the prosecution who made a weak case that didn't work.

KKK & white nationalists

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Have made huge pushes to both soften their message and find legitimate political outlets to push their causes. One guess where they've been infiltrating...

You hear many of their arguments as they pertain to illegals and the black community, only now with a different spin. Sad thing is it's now being adopted by the base GOP. Racists have come to realize they wouldn't survive doing the old things, so they've come up with some creative reasoning for their positions ala the christanist abortion/marriage movement. It's all about message and PR these days.

Anyways, it's well documented. They're among us and more relevant than ever because they found a way into legitimate political power by lightning their message and by exploiting class tensions as the middle class declines.

Go read up on it and report back. It really is fascinating to hear a skinhead worried about their "culture" and their plans to work "within the system" after years of belligerently trying to be counterculture. And the sad thing is it works.

The morlocks are coming!

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This here takes the cake - you my friend sound exactly like the alleged KKK talking about the evil scary illegals. Now put on your hoody, photocopy the leaflets at Widener and go catch the #1 bus.

When will people understand?

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This case has absolutely nothing to do with race. It's a case of self defense, and the jury has acquitted the defendant. People need to respect our judicial system. A 'not guilty' verdict means the case is over. End of story, done. Please respect that.

Would a white kid with candy and Coke have been followed?

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By Zimmerman?

That's what makes it about race.

Also, criminal case is over, the civil case is not.

And, while I respect the jury's decision and can see reasonable doubt, it only means Zimmerman was found not guilty of a crime.

Doesn't change the fact that he's a cowardly killer of a young kid.

They should have argued that

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They should have argued that he was trying to steal his skittles.

Nope, it doesn't change that

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Nope, it doesn't change that fact, but it makes everyone who convicted him of murder in the court of public opinion way back last year look awful silly.

Yes

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A white kid dressed like a thug walking around like he's on drugs would have been followed, and would have caught a slug in the chest if he got violent. Now dry your white guilt tears and move along, or better yet leave your comfy Cambridge condo and go protest like the rest of crusty occutards. Just don't drive there, your Lexus might get broken into.

Hmmm

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You know this how? Do you differentiate between a poor/working class 'urban' white kid, a 'white trash' rural white kid, a middle class and upper middle class white kid from a nice suburb of chic area of the city? There are differences, you know, and each one of the kids I just described by their socioeconomic status has very different life experiences growing up, and are in fact treated differently by society at large, even something as mundane as an accent can color a person's attitude towards another, for good or bad. I'm white and when living on Mission Hill as a kid, from a 'disadvantaged' socioeconomic background, and with an 'urban' [low class] accent, me and my friends would go to the MDC pool at Cleveland Circle, by way of Brookline Village and the green line. We'd sometimes take the Beacon St streetcar back, get off at Coolidge Corner and take a bus. Or we'd walk if we had no money for the MBTA. We were constantly harassed by Brookline cops, because we were [to put it bluntly] white trash kids from Mission Hill. I'm sure it was official policy to harass the Boston kids, regardless of their skin color. Did the middle and upper middle class Brookline kids who spoke 'nicely' and whose dads were lawyers, accountants, doctors, university professors, etc., get harassed when they went into Boston? I seriously doubt it.

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There was a trial, it was by all accounts a fair and open trial, and the jury reached a verdict, same as when OJ Simpson's jury reached their verdict. We can't accept a society where some people threaten random violence, riot and through temper tandrums when things don't go their way. That's something children do, and in their case responsible adults put them in their place. It's also wrong for organizations and individuals to use something like this as an excuse to stir up shit and cause trouble. I'd also say the community where this vigil is going to take place has very serious problems with violence, ongoing problems, and needs to look more in the mirror and to positive proactive things to lessen or better still end the epidemic of violence. If you read what I wrote above, you can appreciate I have empathy for people, regardless of their color, 'race', ethnicity, gender, age, etc. who're unfairly treated or stigmatized, because I myself know well what that's like. But trash talking and threatening [and committing] violence, random or not, in response to perceived or real slights, is not the answer and only makes matters far worse. My whole life growing up in urban America, the past 35 years, has been saturated with 'race' issues, charges of 'racism' and violence, and by politicians and others who pander and instigate. This has caused a lot of anger and harm, and even today shows no sign of abating; probably because too many individuals and organizations profit in some fashion or another off of it.

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Possibly... There are plenty

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Possibly... There are plenty of thug white kids in florida. I really doubt zimmerman wanted to track down and shoot a black kid cause he felt like it and he hates black people. And also, black people commit a majority of crime in areas like this. Not because they are black, but because they are raised in poverty that many blacks have been forced into since slavery. I'm not saying trayvon was a criminal or that zimmerman was right, but there is a reason to suspect black people of crime over white people other than irrational racism. People act like ghettos and gangs etc dont exist.

Self defense

If Trayvon Martin had killed George Zimmerman that night, would it also have been justifiable in self-defense?

The most important lesson from this: dead men tell no tales.

Nobody whould

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Know. It never would have made national news. Blacks shoot people = ok. A Hispanic man defended himself, he is an animal. Particular interests like al unsharptoned, and CNN turned this into a circus. But one good thing did come of this, a new protected minority class: The White Hispanic! Obama has announced march will be the national White Hispanic History Month.

You nailed it.

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That's the takeaway from this: dead men tell no tales.

You're right

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Martin had every right to act in self defense when stalked and assaulted by a strange person, at night, in his neighborhood.

Unfortunately, he couldn't provide testimony. And FL, the fucked up state it is, apparently requires the prosecution to proved beyond a resolvable doubt that self defense was NOT the case in a manslaughter case. (WTF!?)

So, have someone need a murdering? Just do it in FL and make sure there were no witnesses. Dead men can't talk.

Blah

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Why isn't anyone saying anything about the man shot at in mattapan, armed robbery at west Roxbury gas station, Dorchester street shot up, pregnant teen stabbed in the arm, etc? Why does a 17 year old drug dealing violent thug "child" matter more than any of the above?

Because most people can think about more than one thing

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I notice this "why aren't people outraged about X" meme popping up all over the place. Maybe some people spend their lives thinking about exactly one thing at a time week after week, but most people don't. How the hell do you know people *aren't* upset about other forms of violence at the same time?

Thanks for nipping this trend in the bud.

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I mean, how can you justify spending $12 on a pizza when that money would feed a family in Africa for a month? These arguments are silly and we shouldn't have to pick and choose whether we care about just one issue.

This whole case was a circus

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While the case was very tragic, it's the rule of law that matters. I will leave this here, as it is the best reading I've seen about the verdict so far

http://criminaldefenseblog.blogspot.com/2013/07/th...

You weren't there either. You don't know what happened, exactly. As much as you want to believe you were there and know what happened, exactly, you weren't, and you don't.

Not knowing exactly what happened requires a not guilty verdict, no matter how angry or outraged you are. The jury didn't free Zimmerman because they thought he was a good guy or because they weren't sad that a young boy was killed (jurors were rumored to be crying during the state's rebuttal), they found him not guilty because the facts and the law required them to do so.

There is something terribly

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There is something terribly wrong with the (self defense) law that allows a man who killed an innocent boy to walk free. We must work on getting this law changed.

I give up

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Nice to see UHub has so many visitors, I guess, but I'm closing off this discussion to new comments because we've gotten to that part of the day when all the arguments have been made and all that's left is the spitting and frothing by people trying to outdo each other in just how horrible they can be in discussing their fellow human beings.

Looks like the Herald's comments are still open, so have at it over there.