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Green Line tracking data is now approaching the station
By adamg on Thu, 10/23/2014 - 10:26am
The MBTA reports that starting this afternoon, it'll be feeding above-ground Green Line location data to the apps that let riders see when the next trolley is arriving - at least if they're standing on the surface.
The T says it will start sending out its own next-train predictions by December for above-ground trolleys - which will give un-tunnelled riders access to the sort of countdown clocks riders on the Red, Blue and Orange lines now take for granted - and will extend the datat to underground stations early next year.
The reason only above-ground tracking is available now is because it's based on trolley GPS units - which don't work underground:
Track sensors known as Automatic Vehicle Identifiers (AVIs) are being installed to track trains in the tunnels. There are existing AVIs every few stations, but this is not sufficient for predictions, so new AVIs are being installed for finer resolution. New AVIs are scheduled to be installed this winter, enabling predictions to be made at Green Line subway stations shortly thereafter.
The T reports it was able to speed up the project by several months by using its own employees to install the required hardware and software.
This eliminated the time-consuming and costly step of hiring a systems integrator and gave the MBTA more control over the project’s timeline. The entire fleet of 225 Green Line trains will be equipped with GPS technology for approximately $1 million, including the installation labor. Currently all of the Type 8 cars have GPS, and because 98% of trains contain at least one Type 8 car for accessibility, we can confidently release the GPS information to the public. The Type 7 cars are currently being overhauled and will receive GPS equipment as part of that process, therefore bringing the entire fleet to completion by the end of the overhaul cycle.
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Comments
It's official
Hell has frozen over...
Been asking why the MBTA
Been asking why the MBTA couldn't use the off the shelf bus GPS trackers on the surface portions of the Green Line for years!
The T reports it was able to
Don't leave us, Rich Davey. YOU'RE OUR ONLY HOPE!
Train Tracking
Hats off to the MBTA for getting this done even if it's many years too late.
How do they track trains in the tunnels right now? Do they not have resolution beyond "every few stations".
Right
I still don't get why they can't track Green Line below ground, when Red Orange and Blue are predominantly underground lines.
Because the blue, orange, and
Because the blue, orange, and red lines have modern electronics and signal systems, and things like frequently spaced AVIs, while the green line still largely relies on the same technology it has for more than a century.
Signal blocks, primarily.
Signal blocks, primarily. That's how they show up on the giant track diagram at the ops center. So they don't technically know where a train is, apart from the AVIs every few stations, but they know based on signal indications where a train is supposed to be.
It's the Green Line
Of course it took longer to get here than the rest of the system.
Whatever happened to that
Whatever happened to that orange line t racking system that was installed in Back Bay Station a few years back. It was a nice large LCD screen that showed the entire O line and where the trains were. IIRC it was operational for maybe a month before they took out the sign and the crevice for it is still there. That was pretty handy.
Replaced with the count down
Replaced with the count down timers on the LED signs.
Nah those have been there for
Nah those have been there for long before they put these things in.
Didn't they have one of these
Didn't they have one of these at Wonderland as well?
Wonderland And Airport Stations Have Them, But ...
... they're inside the little platform offices, so you have to go out of your way to look at them.
Maverick Station has a big old board hanging from the ceiling with little lights that display the location every train on the Blue Line. Yes, it still works!
Maverick
There's still one of those for the Blue Line at Maverick. It would be cool to have one at every station, but probably costly since everyone can basically load one on their phone anyway.
Another feel good system
that is a WASTE OF MONEY and DOES NOTHING to improve capacity. We need more trains in service, not more of this 'Johnny Science" nonsense.
Oh please
That's like saying, "This hammer is a WASTE OF MONEY and DOES NOTHING to screw in a light bulb, ALL CAPS!!!1!1!". Hint: not every problem is a nail, yet some non-nail problems are still worth solving. I for one will be glad to have this, because it does solve a problem.
When tracking was added to
When tracking was added to buses ridership went up. Being able to predict the time needed for a commute makes people more willing to attempt relying on public transit.
Roadman, is that you
Did you not login?
Seems like something roadman would say (minus the caps)
I personally think its great. I live by the GPS tracking. I think its the best thing to happen to the T since.. well since 1897.
Nope
Roadman does have a lick of sense, and appreciates the countdown timers greatly :)
It does improve capacity
One of the problems the Green Line (especially) has is train bunching (there's a great podcast out of Chicago about this recently), where one train catches up on another and the two trains then run back to back, with the first almost completely full and the second mostly empty. This means that while you have the theoretical capacity of two trains, everyone tries to jam on to the first one, it slows down, the second catches up, an the whole system slows. With long dwell times as people push in to the train, the ability to move the train over the line is slowed, and the capacity diminishes.
With a good predictor, passengers could wait for the second train. Right now, people might cram on to the first one because there's no knowing if there's another train behind. If the station says "2 minutes", then people might wait for the next one, knowing it won't take much longer and be a better ride.
This is the same reason why signal priority and off-board fare collection (or at least all-door boarding) on the B, C and E lines would increase capacity. If you could speed each trip by 6 minutes (*), you could run more trips with the same amount of equipment. While fare collection is (mostly) a policy issue, signal priority is another one of these "Johnny Science" gambits. Except it actually would increase both speed and capacity.
* Assume:
90 minute roundtrip from BC to Government Center (or Park Street for now)
6 minute headways
Requirement for 15 trains on the B Line
If you reduce the trip 6 minutes each way, you now have an 78 minute trip, so you can either serve the same number of trips with 13 trains (a savings of about 13% in operations costs) or increase the headways to about 5:20 (a gain of 13% in capacity).
The Patrick administration
The Patrick administration has transformed the T the last 8 hours, things like this which previous administrations said was impossible (though done elsewhere) has been pushed by this administration, and after over a decade of neglect the MBTA is investing long term in new cars, engines and maintenance as well as much need expansions like GLX that were delayed indefinitely by the Romney/Swift/Cellucci et al crew. As a regular MBTA rider this is reason enough to vote for Coakley who has pledged to continue these kind of improvements. I do not want to return to the cuts and delays to public transportation during the Baker/Weld days.
Almost 8 years in
Yeah, great work Deval. Meanwhile, according to your logic, Romney should be cheered for getting new Blue Line cars and Cellucci should be celebrated for getting new Green Line cars, along with the Old Colony expansion.
Sorry, kiddo, the Patrick administration is doing these things with one foot out the door. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy they're being done, but comparing his "success" to that of his predecessors is pretty tough to take. Heck, if you want to go back to the days when Baker and Weld were in charge, let's talk about the newer Red Line cars (and yes, Baker had little to do with that.) And I'm sure somewhere in that time line all of the double decked commuter rail cars were bought.
Now, if any candidate gave a plan for what to do with the T's crushing debt, then we talk.
Baker was the one that gave
Baker was the one that gave the t it's crushing debt as part of his big dig scheme, little one. And the red, orange and blue lines tracking was done much earlier in the Patrick administration.
Thanks for ignoring our
Thanks for ignoring our complicity in this matter. Now give us more money for less responsibility peasants!
Tracking yes
But I would give proper credit for that to the MBTA itself. Ah, Rich Davey. Too bad he is leaving, but hopefully he will be back soon enough. Imagine a head of the T that actually takes the T.
And yes, Baker is the author of the Big Dig financing plan, but forward funding came later, passed by a General Court Coakley wanted to be a part of, but was denied by Marty Walsh. It is amazing how the partisans, when they view the 1991-2007 time period, forget that there were both Republican governors and an overwhelmingly Democratic legislature, so the blame can be shared.
I'm just saying that a lot of things Patrick could have done over the first 7 3/4 years in office for the T that were not done. Painting him as anything other than a continuation of what we've got since Dukakis (yes, I saw him on the Green Line while he was running for President) left office would be overstating by a mile his contribution to our transportation system.
Lying liars. I'll believe it
Lying liars. I'll believe it when I see it.
http://www.mbtainfo.com/green
http://www.mbtainfo.com/green_map
"only above ground trains are
"only above ground trains are tracked." I think it's great that they did this but this sort of tracking leads me to believe they must have used cheap consumer grade tracking devices for this. They certainly make more accurate transmitters that can ping from unterground.
how so
how could they? It requires proprietary hardware to do so...
Remember this GPS tracking thing isn't new, and is brought to you buy the folks over at NextBus who almost have the market in this stuff.
I doubt they went to amazon.com and ordered stuff (and besides what would they order?)
I doubt they ordered from
I doubt they ordered from Amazon either but they could go the extra mile and find a system that does work underground. When I want to know what green line is coming next is most important closer to downtown when all 4 lines share the same track.
Problem
The problem is that the other lines have more modern control systems. The Green line is still using archaic technology. The post above explains it all.
This is why everything is last to come to the green line because they have to learn how to adapt it to a technology older than dirt.
The T (above) also explains that it is not possible with the Type 7 (Kinky Cars) and only with the Type 8s. The Type 7s will get it when they are overhauled. So it must something to do with the electronics inside the cars.
Voltage
Not a lot of car GPS units work on 600v DC
GPS barely works inside of a
GPS barely works inside of a wooden shed, how do you expect it to work underground, under several hundred feet of rock? Ever tried listening to radio in a tunnel? (well, before they installed retransmitters).
This is the first phase of
This is the first phase of the rollout. Did you ignore the part about rolling it underground too?
I see. Saw the hype, saw the
I see. Saw the hype, saw the note on the actual website, my bad.
One train, that's it?
When I look at that map, I see a lonely train on the B line near Warren St., AND THAT'S IT!!!!!! I think I can see why the Green Lines aren't very reliable. ;)
Perhaps it's just a glitch in the data feed, which seems reasonable enough on the first day. Seriously, this is great news. I am a much bigger user of the bus system today than I was before Next Bus came along. This should enhance the GL experience for a lot of riders.
refresh
I have that page open and I see several B trains..
There do seem to be a few
There do seem to be a few vehicles roaming the tracks that are not taking part in the GPS tracking system... and yes they're type 8s.
I guess the work is still in-progress.