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At least two city councilors not thrilled with idea of equipping school police with pepper spray
By adamg on Tue, 11/04/2014 - 10:39am
Councilors Tito Jackson (Roxbury) and Ayanna Pressley (at large) want the school department to just say no to pepper spray.
School police, who do not carry guns, say pepper spray would help them better control violent situations. But in a request to the council for a hearing on the BPS idea, the two councilors say they don't understand the need when violence in Boston schools is declining and when pepper spray brings with it a variety of health risks and legal liabilities for the city:
The physical effects of pepper spray are serious and can be life-threatening, including physical effects such as: immediate inflammation and swelling of the throat, a reflexive reaction that constricts the size of the airway and limits the amount of oxygen entering the lungs, creating an especially dangerous situation for children with asthma, and tingling and occasional blistering of the skin.
Depending on the brand, pepper spray may contain water, alcohols, or organic solvents; nitrogen, carbon dioxide, or halogenated hydrocarbon propellants; and inhalation of high doses of some of these chemicals can produce adverse cardiac, respiratory, and neurologic effects, including arrhythmias and sudden death. ...
Said pepper spray policy will likely cause BPS and the City to incur additional costs, including but not limited to the following: purchasing of pepper spray and other supplies, training, medical care, harms to students, and increased litigation.
The council considers their request for a hearing at its regular meeting on Wednesday, which starts at noon in the fifth-floor council chambers in City Hall.
BPS, meanwhile, holds a public meeting on Thursday at 6 p.m. at the Hyde Park Education Complex Auditorium, 655 Metropolitan Ave. Another session is scheduled for Nov. 13, at 6 p.m. at the West Roxbury Education Complex Auditorium, 1205 VFW Parkway.
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Comments
Tito Jackson
This is the dude who cried out about needing a raise because his $87,500 salary is a "subscription to poverty." Are we supposed to be taking anything he says seriously?
Therefore pepper spray in schools is a good idea?
How do you even connect dots?
Is that what I said?
Cause I don't see those words in my comment.
If you're not trying to
If you're not trying to comment about pepper spray in schools, then don't comment in a thread about pepper spray in schools. #prolifetip
I see you're taking your own
I see you're taking your own advice.
What does that
have to do with this?
....nothing
You did notice a second councilor's name, no?
So even if you don't take him seriously, how about her?
Remarks of the City Councilors from Public Meeting Wed 10/8/2014
Remarks of the City Councilors in the .sgstn StenoGraph StenoNote Stenograph Record from the Wednesday 8 October 2014 Public Meeting of Boston City Council
http://anopenbostoncitycouncil.blogspot.com
Stay tuned for interpolated/decoded .sgstn StenoGraph StenoNote Record from Wednesday 22 October 2014, Wednesday 27 October, November and up to date Public Meetings of Boston City Council. Or request the public file at
http://www.cityofboston.gov/contact/?id=138
Please stop
This has absolutely nothing to do with stenographic records or even sterno cans. You don't have to post this to every single city-council discussion.
Thanks.
Transcript of the Councilor's remark.
The Councilor's remark referred to in the first of these comments after the original post is in the transcript.
Context, my friend
If you had replied to that comment, sure, but leaving it merely to a statement by 2 politicians, Adam might have a point.
Not that I should be telling you how to do your job. Especially since I don't have that URL to the law you want the city council (for a municipality you don't even live in) to break memorized. Yet.
But Adam
How will I be able to remind him that said request is against state law if he doesn't keep on asking for it.
Also, were the comments even made in a meeting, as it is Tuesday and meetings take place on Wednesdays?
Traffic
He just wants to drive traffic to that blog... essentially its spam.
I wouldn't call it spam
But then again, I assume that he writes these things out fresh each time.
I have theories. The gut is that he get myopic when things like the Boston City Council are mentioned.
How much traffic?
Not being sarcastic: how much traffic do you think his blog gets?
I'm assuming it's very little and has only been created for his own interest.
He would prefer physical violence?
Some of these 'kids' are savage. We aren't talking Buckingham, Browne & Nichols here, we aren't talking Brookline High.
And I attended BPS off and on, including 2 years HS (no, not Latin), so spare me snarks about living in the suburbs,etc.
We aren't talking Buckingham,
Seeing as we're talking about Boston Public School policy, you're entirely correct; this wouldn't have anything to do with BBN or BHS kids.
Or was it something else you were trying to imply?
lol nerd
sorry you got beat up
Wow. Nerd?
Who said I got beat up? Not me,boss. Just trying to inject some harsh reality into the conversation.
I hear what you're saying,
I hear what you're saying, and I don't know what the answer is. I think the councilors are being pragmatic, and would prefer the city to avoid being sued by (a) suddenly "involved" parent(s) after their kid gets pepper sprayed. "The kid had a boat load of potential, but had a hard time staying out of trouble. During a hallway fight one day over a pair of stolen sneakers, BPS security guards pepper sprayed him. Since then he's suffered from breathing problems and has had a hard time paying attention. He's missed 63 days of school this year. His parents are asking for $75 million in damages..."
How about stun guns?
Stun guns don't cause lung problems, maybe skin problems.
If I worked school security, I'd want a stun gun, and use pepper spray as a last resort!
How about
Training people to deal with the population they are serving?
How?
How do you train someone to deal with a kid assaulting you or someone else at school?
1. Yell Please stop!
2. Stand there and observe while waiting for police.
3. Run away!
4. Film it on your phone.
Violent Kids shouldn't be subject to methods of subduing them?
Parents should receive notices informing them of the consequences if their child becomes violent and uncontrollable while in school.
Ask someone who works with special ed in upper grades
People I knew who worked in schools where the kids occasionally needed to be physically restrained (kids with certain types of retardation and autism and head injury damage, mostly) knew how to deal with meltdowns without pepper spray or stun guns.
My husband even used some of the moves that his former roommate taught him when he taught high school and stopped a fight despite his relatively slight build. There are ways to safely physically restrain and contain out-of-control people - including those who have no mental ability to control themselves.
That's what TRAINING is for.
Meanwhile, pepper spray might be a good option - if there is a problem and it has been successfully used elsewhere to protect students, faculty, and security people. Not like Boston is the first school to think this up or try it - there should be plenty of information around to establish if it works or is a really bad idea, and what training is needed.
I agree
Some Kids in many schools these days think nothing of assaulting teachers, police, or their peers at the slightest disagreement, attempt to reprimand, discipline, or the word no.
Pepper spray for protection and to gain control of a violent out of control student is reasonable.
Pepper spray to subdue a violent trespasser on school property also.
Got Actual Information?
You claim that schools are totally out of control and this and that. Can you tell us how often this happens? As in data? Please?
How often would pepper spray even be an option? Again, data please?
Meanwhile, have you heard the phrase "school to prison pipeline"? You might want to look into that.
Don't need Data
Where I live, north of Boston there have been incidents of students assaulting teachers and their peers. Police had to be called.
I believe, given the reality of violent out of control incidents in schools, school security should have some means and legal protection to subdue and control a violent kid.
Plus if kids know laws will restrict any intervention to stop them.....they can do whatever whenever because mommy and daddy, guardian can sue?
BTW I was threatened by a group of 8th grade girls when I tried to intervene on their beating and kicking another student while waiting for the school bus in front of the school. Police were called.
Yes you do need data
You are saying there is a problem to solve.
PROVE IT.
You are also saying that this is a problem in Boston - but you have presented no information on how big a problem there is or how pepper spray might change the problem (if it exists).
PUT UP or SHUT UP.
Your generalized fear of the world and parroting of massively paranoid anti-child diatribes absent evidence != actual problem in Boston schools - or in any schools.
In the meantime, note that crime is DOWN compared to the last two generations. Think about it.
You don't need data
Should we take polls from all schools in the area? What if you consider the data to be bias and/or the sample size to be too small? What some consider "a problem" may not be considered a problem for others...
In regards to your comment that all crime is DOWN - where is your data there? Let's see it.......how do you know that all crimes are reported? Plenty of crimes go unreported - did you know that?
Your approach is comical - thanks for using caps to add emphasis.
school to prison
Because of - Lack of discipline and learning there are guaranteed consequences for violent behavior.
✳Starts at home. Better start at a young age!
Today
My poor child
They would never
I'm suing
My kid has problems, issues,syndromes.....
He/she is a good kid.....
Blah blah too many excuses.
Did you beat down other students, security or faculty as a kid? I wouldn't have even dared to!
Got facts?
No? Then don't post again until you answer the questions others have asked with hard information (not more of your fearful and reactionary "gonna show dem kids" opinions).
Knives
Arm the school police with knives. Knives are quiet and offer better protection than pepper spray.
I have an idea
How about rigging buckets of slime from the ceiling like in You Can't do that on Television?
Hot Slime
Jalapeño Slime would work best!
What do they do with the
What do they do with the younger, violence-prone children that are very hard to control? You cannot pepper spray a fifth grade student. Where's the solution? My nephew attends the Murphy in Dorchester and starting this September, they began accepting children who have acted out and been violent in the past. My nephew has witnessed violence and he's only in the third grade. It's a sad situation.
What about the other kids who didn't do anything wrong
Spraying pepper spray in a hallway or other areas in an attempt to subdue one teen could potentially hurt other teens.
no one is talking spraying
no one is talking spraying pepper spray at kids to break up fights... We do like to keep our jobs. First, we are talking pepper gel. It's the same substance but does not cross contaminate. Second, we are talking for personal protection. If you think we are talking kids, please wake up. Kids have parents, older siblings that are gang related, uncles, and others that do not have their best interest in mind when they visit schools. We are not assigned to elementary schools. One officer in a middle school and 3 in a high school. There are 56000 students in BPS and only 70 officers. That's one officer to every 800 students. You want to know why stats are down? Because schools are not reporting everything anymore. Administrators realized that reporting stats makes their building look bad to the School Department.