So those gay veterans who don't exist?

Comments

Looks like..

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if Congressman Lynch is true to his word, he will not be marching unless these people are allowed in.

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How inconvenient

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20 years ago when Boston's St. Patrick's Day parade organizers first indicated they would ban LGBT community members from marching in their parade I think many privately agreed with them. The times have changed and just like this letter from those gay veterans who issued this letter; how inconvenient.

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They can march. They just

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They can march. They just need to follow the same guidelines as every other participant.

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Yes, clearly.

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Just no signs identifying who they are. I'm sure every other group has to cloak itself in anonymity.

Again...why anyone even wants to march in this dumb, godforsaken parade is completely beyond me.

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Beacuse

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The Southie parade is loaded with guy walking with flag identifying them as straight males. Its called equality, you know when people follow the same set of rules.

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Totally! Equality means that

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Totally! Equality means that everyone has the equal right to do exactly what I tell them to. MURCA.

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Really, so the various Union

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Really, so the various Union Groups, companies and politicians can march as long as they don't mention their affiliations?

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Yes, sure

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Just like the black veterans are allowed to march but only if they paint their skin white.

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O how Mass Equality scrambled..

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Oh how they scrambled. At the final mtg with the real vets and the fake vets, the Allied War Veteran's asked them point blank "Who here among you (Mass Equality) are veterans?" One person raised his hand. When the supposed vet was asked - "Well, can you at least get 3 more vets plus yourself to carry the colors for a color guard?", the supposed vet replied probably not and what is a color guard?" It was at that point, Mass Equality's cover was blown and South Boston Veterans, who were bargaining in good faith knew that their suspicions were right, these people are frauds. So now, over the past week, they scrambled to get a bunch of real veterans (? maybe, it wouldn't be the first time Mass Equality tried to pull a fast one) willing to add their names to try and save face. It's unfortunate for Mass Equality that people are not as easily conned as they had hoped. They need to go find their own parade. Their credibility is gone.They can have Pinocchio as one of their mascots in their own line of march. Everyone will get the meaning.

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That's a pretty flimsy way to

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That's a pretty flimsy way to explain away the parade committee's bigotry. How is discrimination okay if there's only one veteran and suddenly not okay when there's three? Seems more like using a procedural error as an excuse to be an asshole.

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You miss the point - Mass Equality lied

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You miss the whole point - they lied. Mass Equality deliberately misrepresented themselves; both on their original application and during the meeting.. Is this somehow ok with you? Does the end justify the means? I do not know if impersonating a veteran is a crime, but if it isn't, maybe it should be.

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So you're going to start

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So you're going to start discriminating against entire classes of individuals just because their advocacy groups may or may not be run poorly? Like, freedom begins and ends at how nice your PowerPoint presentations are? That's beyond absurd. What Mass Equality does in no way impacts how insanely bigoted barring gays from marching in the parade is.

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Well MassEquality may be out,

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Well MassEquality may be out, isn't there a gay veterans group that IS marching and abiding by their rules? That is what I had heard. So yes...because they were run poorly they are out. But other groups that were not run poorly are being allowed to march regardless of whether or not they're gay. That seems pretty fair to me.

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And what mystery group

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And what mystery group marching under the parade committee's Don't Ask Don't Tell policy would that be exactly?

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Though I support the right of

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Though I support the right of gays to march in principle, I have to agree with "Scoob" on this. Claiming to be something you're not is not quite the same as failing to have having "nice PowerPoint presentations".

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Miss the point

You call the parade committee assholes and bigots. Mass Equality showed themselves as frauds and liars at the meeting. Instead of ever having a list of actual vets wanting to march prior to the protests and meetings, only today they came up with a list of twelve names "associated with MassEquality", yet no addresses, or claim that they are members of MassEquality. We can only wonder what states and towns these dozen are from. I wonder if any live in Boston, let alone Southie. If these vets were local, they could just march with the other vets groups.

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02474

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Not a Boston taxpayer.

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Sorry, Mark, you're the one

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Sorry, Mark, you're the one missing the point. Homophobia is not suddenly okay because Mass Equality may or may not have had their act together at a meeting. We aren't suddenly deciding who gets to participate in society based on which groups have the best representation.

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Homophobia? Homosexuals have

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Homophobia? Homosexuals have always marched in the parade. This particular group misrepresented themselves, which is why they were denied.... Plain and simple. Maybe the parade committee was discriminating against this particular group ( we will never know), if they had their ducks in a row when applying, we would have known.

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And

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How many of the groups being paid by the trog gay-haters are local? Including the pipe bands, the stormtroopers, and the veterans?

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Transcript please?

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There is quite a bit of detail here. Was there a transcript detailing what was actually said? Or is this just how the meeting is (conveniently) remembered?

Some supposed quotes make my b.s. detector start blaring loudly. This is one of them.

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Yes, there are transcripts.

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The Allied War Veterans adhere to a strict policy at each and every meeting. They not only take written minutes of each meeting but they audio record it as well. This is done so they can verify any and all statements and press releases they put out.

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Scan it to a PDF format and attach.

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Then everyone can read what supposedly was said. Of course I would want a transcript that was recorded by a neutral third party. I've been to enough condo meetings to know how what is said winds up sounding very different in minutes and transcripts when a biased party is doing the recording.

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Politicians honoring Wacko

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If you check the attendance list, stories and photos and the photos in this week's South Boston Today newspaper, out today, from the Annual Chief Marshal's banquet, held last weekend; a huge gathering to honor Wacko Hurley and the South Boston Allied War Veterans, you might be surprised. All these politicians who say they are upset with these veterans and boycotting the parade were right up at the head table with Wacko and the committee clapping for them, shaking hands with them and even giving them awards and citations. Among the head table guests were Stephen Lynch, the Mayor and even Senator Linda Dorceny Forry. So tell me, what do you have to say about that??

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They exist today

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but they didn't when their application was reviewed. Im not saying i agree, im just saying you are being misleading in an attempt to encourage more Irish Catholic bashing.

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No Irish Catholics have been bashed

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None at all.

Just called out for bigotry that has shit-all to do with being Irish and certainly discouraged by the Pope himself!

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Please stop calling this

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Please stop calling this Irish Catholic bashing. You're inferring that all Irish-Americans agree with the bigoted parade organizers. We don't, so please stop claiming that we do.

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For chrissake.

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You poor, poor straight white Christian guys. Talk about your underprivileged, downtrodden masses. If only you had a voice in government, or some other kind of representation to prevent the ghastly offenses perpetrated against you daily by gays, minorities, and the big meanies on the internet.

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Representation

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While it's true that we've had twice as many Catholic presidents as we've had black presidents, we've only had one Catholic president.

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Don't understand the math

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Of all Catholic Presidents there have been only one, yes President Kennedy. But Barak Obama is President; he also has been President longer than President Kennedy. So how can there be twice as many Catholic Presidents?

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President Barack Obama:

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One must bear in mind that President Barack Obama also has Irish-Catholic roots. His mother, who was white Irish Catholic, hailed from somewhere in Kansas, and had the surname Dunham.

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Actually they don't have representation

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Poor (and middle class) straight, Christian, white guys get the biggest shaft - need to get into a college or need a job or perhaps something from government - sorry get in line pretty much behind everyone else.

Now about representation for those RICH white guys...

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poor straight white Christian guys

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i grew up in boston and couldnt get on the BFD even though my scores were perfect. non "poor straight white christian guys" got on BFD with much lower scores because they were not "poor straight white christian guys"

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It's a vast conspiracy to

It's a vast conspiracy to keep white people off of job sites, oh wait that was the unions keeping people of color off jobs site, my bad.

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vast conspiracy?

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my friends and i didnt get jobs working for the police or fire departments because we were white, that is a fact. the city was sued and lost after years of this practice. im not saying im oppressed but im not a firefighter because i am white. thats a fact.

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Didn't have the least bit to do with your Uncle/Dad/Grandfather

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... giving you both the test that was to be given, nor the answers that would be expected, so you could memorize them.

Nope, nothing at all.

We all know this was how so many barely literate white kids DID SO WELL on the EXAM!

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Be more ignorant

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The test was easy and designed to weed out only absolute morons. Nobody needed a copy, a copy you couldn't get anyways.

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It is a fact that the

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It is a fact that the majority of the police and fire depts in Boston are white, including new recruits, who are over 50% white?

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Same here

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And i'm a Vet with a college degree. I was rejected because 1) i wasn't a minority and 2) i wasn't a female. Talk about "liberal" equality.

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Baloney

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I call BS. You don't even tell us who you are. Why should we even believe you?

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Consider the sources

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Consider these sources. Adversity.net. mmmkay.

We all know about the scandal about handing prized offspring the right answers, though.

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That

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you apparently didn't read.

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Bostonkid is right......

Although it isn't that way anymore. In the 1980s and 1990s, a white male needed a perfect 100 to get a job with the Boston police or fire. And there was no "passing down answers". Even those links show one exam where the cheating was allegedly done by cellphones during the test (recent tests have had metal detectors and plastic bags that hold belongings.).

Much easier now for white males and females to get in the job, as they have taken scores in the low 90s for non-vet whites in recent years.

Sponsors of Parade have been pulling support

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The business community, for the most part, has spoken about the parade. Harpoon, Hailo, the Westin, Gillette all asked to be removed from the sponsor page of the parade website last week. And now the support page has been "being updated" for almost a week, undoubtedly as more and more sponsors pulled support. Sam Adams is the only one still displayed (on home page).
http://www.southbostonparade.org/index-4.html#partners
You are saying these people spontaneously began existing only recently? Why is this Irish Catholic bashing, the parade organizers dont represent all irish catholics, they switch who they say they represent daily, one day its veterans so only vets in uniform should be allowed to march, then its that they are devout catholics so only devout catholics should be able to march.

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no true scotsman

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"but they didn't when their application was reviewed."

Haha, oh, wow. Right. So, other groups that want to march, they have to produce a list of people marching and their qualifications in advance?

I enjoy watching you request war papers, baptism certificates, and genealogy records from WW2 vets before they can march.

"encourage more Irish Catholic bashing."

Oooo, look who's playing the victim now. Hey lookit me, I'm intolerant, hateful, and fear gay people, and strongly believe a religion that teaches the same. HOW DARE YOU CALL OUT MY HATRED/INTOLERANCE/FEAR. YOU'RE JUST CATHOLIC BASHING.

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Why didn't these gay veterans

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Why didn't these gay veterans come forward earlier and support the single gay veteran who was willing to stand up for what he believes in?

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One potential reason

Because as I read the original, poorly-written press release from the parade organizers, they didn't have this list and the individuals in the room when the organizers suggested this compromise. Because only one potential veteran was actually sitting in the room, the organizers said "well, then you don't really have a group do you?" and denied the application.

If, however, they had said "Get together a group of veterans that accept the compromise we've discussed here in the closed-door mediation and come back to us" then we'd probably have an official parade entry. However, that's not really what the Allied War Veterans wanted. They didn't want to actually find a compromise that worked for everyone. Instead, it went exactly as they hoped it would: set it up so it looks like they're open to being inclusive, but in the end it was just those damn gheyz who wanted to ram their agenda down the parade's throat (all puns intended).

I'm speculating, but that's what I got from the barely-literate press release.

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Well, I for one am hoping

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Well, I for one am hoping this will be resolved in time for this year's parade. It's 2014, gay veterans should be able to march in the St. Patrick's Day parade. Someone get the Pope on the phone!

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Nobody is against gay veterans marching

The ban is on proclaiming to be gay, flying gay colors etc in the parade.

Did any of these dozen people try to join veterans groups already marching and got rejected by them, hence needed to form their own group?

So

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Are all the other marchers going to take their rings off and keep their kids away?

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feel better now?

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By coming across as a condescending snob and referring to others as 'barely literate', does that somehow compensate for your own feelings of insecurity and help ease your inferiority complex? Just curious.

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Did you actually... you know,

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Did you actually... you know, read the press release? It's riddled with spelling errors, Weird German Capitalization, and comma abuse. That's not necessarily germane to their point, but if you want to avoid being tagged as barely-literate yokels, it helps to not be, well, barely-literate.

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Oh no, another snob

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And in jumps another condescending snob. You people just can't help yourselves I guess. But if it makes you feel a little bit better about yourselves, by all means, keep coming across as insufferable jerks.

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Snobby to want English grammar?

Dude, the press release was incomprehensible. I'd like to understand what they actually meant to say, not the gobbledygook they put out.

Mind you, the Allied War Veterans are likely speaking in a code that only they themselves understand, but that isn't what goes into a press release.

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It is barely literate

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Did you even try to read it?

How does it make one a snob to say SPEAK ENGLISH PLEASE!!!!!

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"Insecurity... inferiority complex"

Nothing to do with me, my friend. It's just fun to point out that people who hold outdated, bigoted, backwards, and unacceptable views about their fellow human beings are also mouth-breathing troglodytes who write like they barely graduated middle school.

PS- thanks to the others for making the basic points about how poorly this thing was written.
PPS- because I know you'll probably need to look it up, here ya go, Scoob: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/troglodyte

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Just nod and smile

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And there you go again. You must be a blast at a party. I'm guessing you're the one that everybody makes excuses to get away from. If it's a contest on how many names you can call people who hold different views than you, you just do ok. But I'm guessing, most just nod and smile and look for the exit after listening to you for more than 30 seconds. Admit it, that often happens to you, right Craig?

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Do you know what a press release is?

Do you know what it is for?

Hint: it isn't something that should read like a document that a snotty little self-congratulatory young teen clique slapped together without bothering to edit it. It is a public statement for press use that should look like an adult had something to do with it.

These guys sound like the loser idiots that held the community TV channel hostage in Medford - and, like them, should be stripped of their ability to organize a civic event involving any use of public space or money until they demonstrate some maturity. That's what their poorly written screed says to the world.

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Oh, man!

I have been internet-shamed by a random anon who believes it is more important to discriminate against other human beings than to be 100% nice to those bigots! Your ad hominem attacks have made me realize that pointing out the fact that people with low IQs (and thus, poor writing and communication skills) tend to hold discriminatory views has made me sad. I will now slink away because your mighty arguments have made me realize the error of my ways.

(citation for stupid people being bigots: http://news.yahoo.com/low-iq-conservative-beliefs-linked-prejudice-18040...)

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Bye now

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Good decision. Seeya Craig..

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OH MY GAWD!

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So wait--now there's like...a blood test required to march in the f'ing parade? You not only have to be a veteran--you have to be Irish AND straight (or closeted!)?

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Ever hear of....

... "mixed marriages" -- such as Irish-American woman marries a man from an Italian (German, Spanish, French, etc.) family?

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According to Wacko..

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the parade is to celebrate Irish heritage and to celebrate the Veterans...you need not be both.
I don't know what a lot of the other participants have to do with those two themes, but they are allowed to march with their banners and identities in tact.

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Poor counting

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I count 2 Italian names and one German name. The rest could definitely be Irish.

No, I'm not going to end my mostly anonymity, but my Irish surname, the surname of my father's mother, and a whole line of maiden names on that side "aren't Irish" but my Irish born dad would have a BIG issue with anyone saying they weren't Irish. And the lot that became priests would take issue if you attack the Catholicism of the clan.

Of course, his dad used to take down the De Valera signs at the crossroads. We were more Douglas Hyde people (the Hydes having lived down in the valley and whatnot.)

honest question

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With the topic of this group marching in the parade aside, I have an honest question about the parade and its organizers. This is not a tongue-in-cheek criticism posed as a question - seriously, just a question. I would try to do some research and find out on my own if I cared enough, but I don't care enough and it's not worth my time, so someone please help my laziness with your knowledge: Why is the St. Patrick's day parade organized by a veterans group? What does St. Patrick's day have to do with veterans in particular? Is it celebrating the heritage of Christian colonialism and conquer over the ungodly pagans of the world? I mean, it's a holiday to celebrate St. Patrick and the arrival of Christianity into Ireland...what does that have to do with American wars? I understand that Irish-American vets would want to participate in the parade, just like I understand why anyone of Irish heritage would want to participate, no matter what their affiliation, but I really don't see the connection with veterans, in particular, organizing the event. And why does participation need to be so military-focused (maybe it's not and I'm just understanding it wrong?)?

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Here is your answer Heynonney

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The parade celebrate 2 things: St Patrick's Day and Evacuation Day. One honors an Irish Catholic Saint, the other commemorates an American military victory where the colonists drove the British out of Boston during the Revolutionary War. This is why the Veteran's are in charge. I hope this answers your question.

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Evacuation Day

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The celebration of a military victory during the American Revolution.

They do a lot of things that are not Irish related, as it is a South Boston holiday (like Bunker Hill Day is a Charlestown Holiday.) Even though I celebrate the evacuation of British Troops from Boston on March 17, 1776, I don't think one can ignore the fact that it is also St. Patrick's Day.

Now, the question could be asked about why the Imperial Storm Troopers march in the parade, as England was at one point an empire and the Americans were rebels, but that would take away from everyone getting their Irish up about this issue of a gay group marching in the parade.

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Evacuation Day is not a South Boston holiday

It is observed throughout Suffolk Country, and by the school systems of Cambridge and Somerville. Likewise, Bunker Hill Day is not a Charlestown holiday, but observed throughout Suffolk County and Somerville.

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I don't live in Southie

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Come on, Slim, do I need to write up the entire history of Evacuation Day, the cannon coming from New York, their stationing on Dorchester Heights. Look It up on the Internets. And while your at it, find out where the Battle of Bunker Hill was fought (no hints, people.)

Yes, Suffolk County (and Suffolk County alone) in its entirety celebrates Evacuation Day, just as Suffolk County and Somerville celebrate Bunker Hill Day, but Evacuation Day has more meaning in Southie than in the more Irish parts of West Roxbury.

And as always, I will be celebrating the evacuation on the 17th. I save my Irishness for Easter Monday. And the day of the All Ireland Final. And whenever Martin O'Neill's boys play, which better be in the championships in 2 years time.

It is fairly accepted that

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Evacuation Day was created a) because declaring Good Friday as a holiday (like most other countries and the US Stock Exchange do every year) would upset the "separation of church and state" fanatics and b) as an excuse to formally celebrate St. Patrick's Day, which is the biggest non-holiday that has NO historical significance whatsoever, without upsetting said fanatics.

I'd assumed Evacuation Day had zero connection to

Good Friday, which floats with the lunar calendar and regularly occurs nowhere near March 17, often two to four weeks afterward. I'd figured the reasoning was, "The City has so many Irish-American employees who would blow off work or leave early for St. Patrick's Day anyway, we might as well concede it as a holiday." Evacuation Day turned out to be a conveniently coincident excuse.

There are still a bunch of states where Good Friday is a state holiday, by the way. Most employers I've ever had once offered it as an official work holiday, then began offering floating holidays to cover religious observances.

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I agree with you on Good Friday

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The City used to give a half day off for Good Friday, in addition to the county, state, and federal holidays.

I won't concede the St. Patrick's Day angle of the holiday, but then again, you aren't seeing if I have a straight face or not.

ah, I completely forgot about

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ah, I completely forgot about Evacuation Day. I never knew that existed until a couple of years ago (clearly a transplant, here).

Does anyone else think it's strange that they're celebrating driving out of the British in American and the invasion of Christianity into Ireland in the same parade? Aren't they kind of opposites?

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I believe it's because the

I believe it's because the parade is also supposed to be the city's main celebration of Evacuation Day. So Wacko gets to de-secularize one of our (along with Patriots' Day) two incredibly unique local Revolutionary-era holidays.

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Protests!

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I also feel like we're burying the lede here. Can we stop arguing about how many gay veterans there are, and start talking about how FABULOUS the protests at this year's parade are going to be? I might stop by just to see how over-the-top the LGBT community can be, while still staying juuuuust outside the cordoned-off parade route.

Seriously, I can't wait to see the reaction these reactionary yokels have when they realize the size of the target they've painted on their backs.

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No chance

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You're crazy if you think they're going to protest, especially if there is still (god forbid) some snow/ice mounds lying around.

"Why do we have to keep reading about this topic?!!!!111!!!!!"

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This isn't NEWS!!!11111!! THERE are SO many BETTER blogs than THIS ONE!!!!!!!!!111111.
I am so sick of HAVING to READ about THIS!!!1111!!!!. WHY are you MAKING me DO this????!!! My SINCERELY held RELIGIOUS beliefs are BEING OPPRESSED!!!1111 Shoved DOWN my THROAT!!!1111. I WANT MY NEIGHBORHOOD
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!1111!!!

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Evacuation Day should be a federal holiday

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It was the first and most critical of American victories. We freed the British Navy to EVACUATE Boston!!! At the height of their naval superiority. This is of global historical significance.
I venture that there's a huge chance that the American rebellion would have been dead in its bed without this victory.

Patriot's Day too.

Learn your history. I don't care who glommed on later or why, the fact remains that these holidays honor seminal and unique moments in America's history. Puke all the green beer you want. I'll be praising American ingenuity and badasssedness that got us where we are.

Evacuation celebration!

Bigots get to evacuate bile ducts, Drunks get to evacuate their stomachs, many evacuate bladders, and protesters figuratively evacuate bowels.