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On thin ice
By adamg on Tue, 02/25/2014 - 6:41am
Sarah Bourne wonders if the thrill of warm water sailing on the Charles is worth the risk.
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Comments
What Risk?
Not sure what "risk" this person is talking about. Looks well managed to me. If you are going to sail, you dress to get wet. They are wearing exposure suits (likely 5mil neoprene) and sticking together. If you are dressed to fall in the water, you are dressed to go through the ice.
That water is at least 0 C anyway, and they are not alone and near shore.
I've been in the Coast Guard for 13 years...
...and have seen people die in better conditions and more safety gear than this. Kudos to them for taking safety precautions, but there are plenty of things that could go wrong here.
And?
Also true of winter surfing, downhill skiing, back-country cross country, snow shoeing, etc...
And.....
guys like Matthew C have to go out and save these people who get themselves in trouble, many of them probably end up not having the proper gear or protection. I wouldn't want to see Matthew C get hurt trying to save some idiot from doing something they shouldn't be doing.
Right
Wouldn't want to inconvenience people who have chosen emergency response as their careers. This isn't someone jet-skiing in a hurricane - these are people taking a calculated risk with apparently proper equipment. Is there frequent incidences of the Coast Guard rescuing winter time sailors on the Charles that I'm missing?
If the USCG thinks this is a major problem, then they should get it banned and you'll have a valid argument. If there are no prohibitions from boating on the unfrozen river, then it's fine. People can't go on the Jamaica Pond ice for example.
Oh I see
I suppose, in your mind, the real problem is that they didn't hire a detail cop on overtime to watch them.
Is that what you want?
No what I want is your magical brain that works on only theory
And not reality. Imagine if everyone thought like that? No of course you can't, because I don't think you've ever actually done anything in your life, except criticize people and things that don't fit into some untested theory.
The world cant be black and white like you want it to be swirly. When people like you figure that out, this world will be a much better place.
Reality
Seriously?
I pointed out that I actually go out in those sorts of conditions in a kayak ... with friends, but without a babysitter. I've been known to surf on the tails of hurricanes, too.
That's about as real as it gets - and, apparently, more objective experience with reality than you can handle.
So is risk assessment, apparently.
Sorry, but I deal in a lot more reality than you can possibly grasp. Please tell me where I can get a "cop brain" that "just knows" everything without actually doing any research and without being able to grasp statistical risk and risk mitigation. A brain that declares that what it wants to be real IS "reality", and the ability to construct a web of nonsense around it to justify bossing people around on the thinnest of pretenses with assumed authority as a result.
I forgot, you've done everything....
And know everything. I'm just some moron cop.
It doesn't matter that you kayak. What matters is that from one photo, you can see that everyone is wearing a wetsuit, and that the activity is safe. That baffles my mind, and makes me wonder how many others like you are out there.
I'll just shut up now and go eat some donuts, and read the sports pages in my car on detail, on a side street, making $88 an hour.
Oh, and ask around this blog alone as to which poster "knows everything". It's probably not going to be me.
Idiots
Darwin at work.
Some people would say the same about career drivers
How many people die in traffic accidents annually?
Just the devil you know.
Can you do me a favor?
Look up the statistics on lost productivity in the workplace due to entirely too much time spent on the internet, willya?
False
With a drysuit and fleece underneath, if you fall in, you can bob around in icewater all day without getting cold. There's really very little risk, especially with so many people and multiple boats out there.
You could fall through the Ice and hit your head.
Sure the risk may be low, but I wouldn't call what is happening in this picture a "low risk" activity.
You could shoot your eye out
Not a low risk activity, but a managed risk activity. I kayak in icy water, but only with a group and while wearing a wet suit and dry top. Doing the same in street clothes alone would be stupid. Doing the same in Maine without a full dry suit and emergency locator would be suicidal.
Then again, sitting at home watching other people do tricks on TV isn't a low risk activity either, if you factor in sedentary lifestyle.
We don't really know how managed it is though do we?
Those in the boats look ok, but there are 10 people in this photo, some of them walking around on thin ice and we can't tell what they are wearing. Maybe they should be launching their boats from a safer location if there is one?
No, we do
You just have to know what you are looking at (and know the river a bit, too).
I call BS.....
Even those great Oregon Swirly eyes of yours can't see what those people on the ice walking around are wearing in that photo.
go to the larger picture
I can't tell how thick those wetsuits are, but I can tell that they are wet suits.
Again, you have to know what you are looking at. Spend some time surfing and you know what a wet suit looks like.
I'm pretty sure I know what a wetsuit looks like....
I just can't tell if these people are wearing them in this picture.
Great idea!
How much fun would sailing be on a day like today? Even with all the gear, it is harder to move around with the layers on. Let's say you fall in the water, you will be exhausted after 20-30 seconds. Hopefully there is at least 1 person to help get you out of the water, now they are going to try to pull you into the boat, potentially filling it with water and possibly flipping it. Is it worth the risk? Even experienced boaters can have things happen, remember Steven James? God rest his soul.
You're absolutely right.
Nobody should sail. It's dangerous even when the weather is warm -- people drown in boating accidents all the time. Nobody should ski, either -- think of all the people, famous and ordinary, who have lost their lives skiing. And to say nothing of riding motorcycles.
Now, let's talk about the 40,000 people per year in the USA who die in highway accidents. Do you really think it's sane or sensible for people to be commuting to work by car?
Give me a break
Is that really what you got out of my comment?
People shouldn't sail at all it sucks, yup... totally.
I am a boater myself, mentioned nothing about skiing, motorcycles or cars. I believe my comment was regarding the conditions. As someone who has worked on a boat in inclement weather and have pulled someone out of the water, it isn't that fun.
For me, when the risks outweigh the benefits, I err on the side of caution.
Clearly, neither of you are boaters.
Also, sailboats are not very maneuverable.
Take a look at my comment below
Sailing in the winter is quite common, as I point out below.
And, a sailboat isn't very maneuverable? We're talking 12' dinghys that can turn on a dime.
I saw your comment. Some good
I saw your comment. Some good points.
I'm sure the Charles River folk are as skilled as the frost biters. I guess the Whaler is close by in case of an emergency.
Saw a windsurfer take a hard landing on a mooring ball at Wollaston a few weeks back, but he was having fun. People may sail whenever they would like, I really don't care.
But for me, I wouldn't be walking on thin ice, to go sailing on the Charles in freezing temps, knowing the risks involved and seeing what can and has happened.
You need to tell the 60% of sailboaters on the harbor, on a nice day, with the wind blowing 25kts, how maneuverable sail boats are.
Sounds like a different issue
That doesn't sound like a maneuverability issue, that sounds like a "they're in my way and not moving too fast" issue.
Look, I know what you mean. You're trying to get somewhere and you run into a fleet of 30+ sailboats in a race, all on the same tack, and moving at sailboat speeds. You're in the channel and don't have anywhere to go because the sailboats are all over the place. Oh well, not much you can do. They're in a race and aren't going to tack just to get out of your way. They don't have to because you're the burdened vessel (usually). But it's not a maneuverability issue.
Has nothing to do with
Has nothing to do with sailboat races, me thinking sailboats aren't getting out of my way fast enough, or me thinking a race should disband so I can get by. I mean the way the sailboats are maneuvered.
On that note, safe sailing gentleman.
Seriously?
I've been captain of a frostbite fleet.
Do you ever leave your house?
Seriously - have you never even heard of REI? They sell stuff that makes not dying possible when playing outside.
You are (not verified)
Have you ever been out of REI and in the real world?
Frostbiting
Maybe I'm missing something....
I'm guessing people aren't familiar with frostbite racing where people race small sailboats all winter, usually in a harbor like Scituate, Marblehead, Winthrop, etc. And it's done any day, not just a nice, relatively warm day. Take a windy, blustery, 10 degree Sunday and these guys will be out. The sickos even race Lasers, which are very wet boats. Because things can go wrong, sailors wear protective clothing, and there is always a small powerboat ready to assist someone.
little risk?
Sailing in cold weather with the proper gear poses little risk. Walking around on the ice when it's melting? Not too smart. Warm gear doesn't do much good if you get stuck underneath. Plus all those people nearby without the proper rescue gear just increases the chance of someone else getting injured trying to rescue their buddy.
Bunch of Marines
MIT Marines ROTC winter sail training drill.
Jarheads need to get used to cold water in case their water taxi gets torpedoed.