Who says the Needham Line gets no respect?

Wicked Local Needham reports the current state budget has funds to restore Saturday service on the commuter-rail line.

There is no start date set for the resumption of service, according to an MBTA spokesperson.

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I use the 59 Bus from Watertown.

Central Sq Cambridge to Needham Junction $1.60 each way and it's a nice ride.

It probably takes longer but I'm never in a rush.

http://www.mbta.com/schedules_and_maps/bus/routes/?route=59

Newton is said to be near done with their part of a greenway to Medfield and it's at a midpoint between the Newton Highland and Eliot stop.

I'm going there real soon as the section between the Charles and Needham Heights still has old rail on it.

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Actually...

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The 59 is WATERTOWN SQUARE to Needham Junction. You need to transfer to that from the 70 or 70A from Central Square, Cambridge. Or the 71 from Harvard. Assuming you are coming from Cambridge.

Or

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You can get on the bus at Newton Highlands.

For the record, I think the restoration of the service is a good thing. I have and most likely will have my issue with that thing, but Saturday service is good.

Good thinking.

Scraping the bottom of the gotcha barrel there.

The MBTA has this thing called a transfer... so 70 to Watertown from Central, transfer to 59.

This is not even a little victory, it's beyond puny.

Somewhere, somehow a real big gotcha is clearly coming your way.

Seriously.. what kind of miserable sniveling snotballs troll this thing all day for gotcha ejaculations?

Now those who at least spent a few moments on plausible options and counter gotcha presumably contributed to a better understanding of transfer options via Newton Highlands.

I was only correcting...oh forget it...

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You know what, forget it, I'm not even going to waste my time with you. I edited out my response to your ridiculous inflammatory remark. Just an FYI, your information about the 59 is wrong. That is all I'm saying. I am saying nothing more in this topic, have a good day and a nice life.

Maybe

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they'll reduce the price like they did for HP.

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Just stop

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Perhaps you could lobby the federal government to give a grant to the T to do so. Perhaps you could explain how disadvantaged you are in West Roxbury, that without the commuter rail, your one seat ride would become a 2 seat ride, and your commute time would increase by 10 whole minutes (ignoring, or course, the increased frequency the alternative to the commuter rail brings you)

Please, tell us all how living in West Roxbury and Roslindale is so tough.

Better yet

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why don't you explain why HP is entitle to reduced fares?

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It's a pilot project

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That will theoretically end next summer. They are trying to encourage use of the line. It's supply and demand.

Have you ever ridden the #32 bus? I thought not.

Yes I have

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Unlike you, I'm not so out of state yuppie. Took it's over 100 times from the hills to the skate park, no worse than the 34. Trying taking the 16 to JFK, now that a shitty bus route.

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Read my profile, anon (not verified)

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32 to 16 got me through my first 2 plus years at B.C. High, until I decided that 32 to orange line to red line was quicker.

Remember, anon (not verified), everything you write is by its nature suspect. You are obsessed with the grievance of Roslindale being in Zone 1, which it has been before your precious skate park opened, yet somehow taking the bus down Columbia Rd. doesn't phase you.

Oh, and the worst part of the 16 (other than Andrew Square traffic back in the day)? My annoying South Shore classmates acting like animals between school and Andrew Square.

All of Boston should be a

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All of Boston should be a zone 1 fare and a monthly subway pass should be accepted as proof of payment.

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Commuter Rail works by miles traveled.

There are so many ways to hose it if you aren't in a hurry.

And people are dim about it. If you are commuting from Kingston/Plymouth you can drop a lot off of your fare by getting off at Braintree and jumping on the Red Line from there.

You don't need to take a train to Walpole. There's a bus out of Forest Hills.

Going to Worcester? Take the Green to Riverside and board at Auburndale

Take a bus from Malden to Reading to cut the Andover fare and so on.

A bus out of Wonderland lets you use Lynn or Salem as your portals to Newburyport or Rockport.

Even more interesting is the array of small regional transit systems. They all accept Charlie cards so you can go to Natick Mall on the Metrowest bus from Woodland for $1.10.

The Merrimack Valley and Greater Lowell systems are pretty good.

As a non driver trying to make content about open space properties and hiking trails, I'm very happy with all the options.

Of course it may not be that great for rush hour commuting, but for getting around on an easy breezy schedule, it rocks.

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That's BS

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Last time a checked Rozie Sq is closer to SS than Cleary Sq

It's probably a general thing.

Everything between mile X and Y is one fare zone and so forth.

I'm sure it is closer too but you can't claim your anonymous pseudo gotcha prize until you look up and furnish an excruciatingly precise and linked summary of exactly what it really means.

Here's your fare zone map url.

http://www.mbta.com/fares_and_passes/rail/#zonechart

And it comes complete with a counter gotcha as this shit's easy to look up. Nyah Nyah.. So there etc.

With a bit of diagram comprehension, you'll note..

"Rozzie" and Hyde Park are both in zone 1.

Reedville is in 2.

Damn, you were so close to a throbbing gotcha, you could almost taste it.

Alas, it slipped the hook.

Fairmount is a special case

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The T made a commitment to the city to reduce fares on the line to subway prices because it serves parts of Dorchester and Mattapan not otherwise served by fast public transit (i.e., they're stuck with buses).

The eventual move to DMUs (money for which is in this year's budget) will turn the line into something even more akin to a subway, because these cars will allow for something close to subway-level scheduling.

At some point, they're going to have to figure out what to do about the inconsistency of subway-level pricing that ends before the last stop on the line (which is Readville, not Fairmount). Already, people from Milton are driving to Fairmount to park rather than Readville, which is causing issues because it doesn't have the same parking capacity as Readville.

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Fairmount

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Fairmount, not Hyde Park, is the station near Cleary Square that's in zone 1A. It's clearly farther from downtown than several zone 1 stations. That doesn't necessarily suggest that all stations within that distance should be zone 1A, but if nothing else it shows that there is some wiggle room in the "everything between mile X and Y is one fare zone and so forth" rule you put forth.

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But fairmount is an exception

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But fairmount is an exception, as Adam noted above, because it is treated more like a subway for neighborhoods not served by a subway. The other station in cleary square, Hyde Park station which is just 2 blocks from Fairmount station, is zone 1. I live in Milton and drive past Fairmount everyday to get to Hyde Park station. It costs more, but unlike Fairmount, the lines servicing Hyde Park go to Back bay, where I work, as well as South Station. Even if I worked near south station, I wouldn't take Fairmount over Hyde Park because all of the stops on the Fairmount line means it takes longer to get to South Station (and when I did work near south station I took the trolley from Milton to Ashmont).

For all of those reasons, the 1A fare for Fairmount makes sense to me.

"By miles traveled"

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I mean, sure, in general it's true that the farther you go the more you pay (assuming you're going all the way into Boston - if you're using interzone fares you get a much, much better deal per mile traveled). But aren't your "many ways to hose it" really just pointing out ways in which the fare structure is weird and could possibly be improved?

Since we're talking about the Needham Line here, I think it's at least a little strange that there are people who live within a mile of each other (at Forest Hills and Roslindale Village), some of whom pay $2.10 and others who pay $5.75 to ride the same train. I think it's weird that for a trip downtown, the first mile beyond Forest Hills incurs a bigger fare increase (there's a $3.65 difference between zone 1A and zone 1) than the next 30 or so miles out to 495 (there's a $3.50 difference between zone 1 and zone 6). Yes, I understand that the commuter rail costs $2.10 in zone 1A because that's what the subway costs, and I understand that there are fixed costs in running the commuter rail that make it so that fares will never be directly proportional to distance traveled. On the other hand, in a city with such huge parking problems it's amazing to me that we've decided that a round trip train ride from someplace like Roslindale or Melrose should cost $11.50.

The interzone fares, which are a big part of your "ways to hose it," are also a little strange. If you're at Hyde Park, in zone 1, you can ride downtown for $5.75 (but you probably wouldn't, because you could walk to Fairmount in <10 minutes and pay just $2.10). Or you can go stand on the other side of the platform at Hyde Park and buy an interzone 8 fare for exactly the same amount and ride all the way to Providence.

I'm not going to argue that Roslindale Village or Hyde Park or any other particular station should be part of zone 1A or not - that's completely a matter of opinion. But it's absolutely fair game to suggest that the fares are a little wacky, too. Even without converting stations to zone 1A there I think that there are plenty of improvements that could be made.

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It's by miles traveled

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Okay, since you weren't paying attention the time someone else took on anon commuter rail troll, here is it-

Forest Hills Station is 5 miles from South Station. Roslindale is 6.4 miles
JFK/UMass is 2.3 miles from South Station. Quincy Center is 7.9 miles
Porter Square is 3.4 miles from North Station. Belmont Center is 6.4 miles
West Medford is 5.5 miles from North Station. Wedgemere is 7.3 miles
Chelsea is 4.6 miles from North Station. Lynn Central Square is 11.5 miles

In each of these cases, the former station is zone 1A commuter rail, while the latter is the next stop for the public. I could not get the distances for Malden and Wyoming, but I am willing to bet that the former is less than 6 miles from North Station, while the latter is not. So, let's look at the Fairmont line. Morton Street is 5.3 miles from South Station, while Fairmont is 7.9 miles and Readville, which is in Boston yet is conveniently absent from this discussion, is 9.2 miles. Therefore, in the entire MBTA commuter rail system, there is but one station whose fares are not determined by distance. The next station down, which is again within the limits of the City of Boston, is in the Zone 2 fare zone. The one single station that is not in the proper zone is part of a pilot program that theoretically ends in a year.

So, unless you are asking the City of Boston to pony up the money to subsidize service to a solidly middle class neighborhood that is amply served by quick and frequent bus service to a rapid transit line that provides for a quick ride into town, please just remember that you are paying a premium for premium service and ask yourself, which is more important, your time and comfort or your money.

As you can see, this thing irks me.

EDIT- oops, I forgot one line. I'm combining Franklin and Providence/Stoughton- Ruggles (1A) is 2.2 miles from South Station, Hyde Park (1) is 8.4 miles, and Readville (2) is 9.4 miles. Nine miles is the trigger for zone 2.

I'm not sure you actually read my post

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I wasn't arguing that the zone 1 stations are as close as the zone 1A stations, nor that the stations in Boston should be zone 1A. In fact, I stated quite clearly that I view the latter point as a matter of opinion. I just said that to me the fares are strange, pointed out some ways that I think that's true (only one of which - a parenthetical remark at that - could even remotely be construed as suggesting that any station currently in zone 1 should be in zone 1A), and said that in my opinion improvements could be made to the fare structure even if you left those stations in zone 1. I'm not sure which part of that you find so objectionable - maybe I just gave it a bad title?

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Sorry

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Blind rage.

The anon commuter rail troll just gets to me. You, on the other hand, I like.

Thanks Waquoit!

Will you be on the board of "The New England Home for Impaired Reading Comprehension
." when I finally get around to filling out the tax forms?

Also too, Wyoming!!!

As a Reading kid the sound of the Conductor yelling "Wyoming!" was the best part of a train trip to Boston. It is like an obscure village of Melrose 1.2 miles beyond Oak Grove T.

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I live six miles from city hall

But I'm not in Boston and my commuter rail stop is zone 1A.

That's because it is the MASSACHUSETTS BAY Transportation Authority. Note the word "Boston" isn't in there? Fares are determined by distance to a terminal station (North or South), not by whether a station is in Boston proper or not.

Otherwise, Winchester would scream that its two stations should be Zone 1A if the Zone 1 stations you are talking about were to become Zone 1A.

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Good Old West Medford.

I regularly played in a field there as a kid with the Duffy kids.. 2 sons and a bunch of daughters who all had 'K' names like Kathy,Kelly, Kristin, etc.

We'd do our daily runs to 'The Spa' to get penny candy. Or go to that little park with the stone tower.. "up to the tower'.

And we were psyched that Crazy Guggenheim from the Jackie Gleason show, Frankie Fontaine, had a home nearby.

Problem is really in rate of price increase

I don't mind that Rozzi is zone 1. That seems pretty consistent with other zone 1 stations. What irks me is paying 175% more to travel 20% further. Commuter rail should cost more than the bus-subway alternative. It's faster and more comfortable. But the price difference should not be so extreme.

I hate to agree on this

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All my spewing about commuter railers and the way things were "back in the day" when Roslindale was still zone 1 got me to thinking about my first times taking the train home. The fare was an outrageous $2.00, versus $0.85 for the subway and I believe $0.60 for the bus for a total of $1.45. Now it is $5.75 versus $2.10 (CharlieCard.)

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HUZZAH!

Okay, I guess I am the only one to be WICKED THRILLED about this. I am so happy, I could just.... Just....

Kiss my Zone 1 pass and dream about taking the train to work during this upcoming corporate tax busy season.
!!!!

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"Rapid" transit?

Saturday service but still nothing on Sunday? How convenient.

Just convert the line to an extension of the Orange line and be done with it. Low cost, frequent service 7 days a week.