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Dream to become reality: Some commuter-rail riders will soon be getting CharlieCards

TransitMatters reports on an advisory the T has sent to its corporate customers.

Tim Lawrence adds:

Corporate pre-tax MBTA passes will be getting the 15% discount. It's your employer's responsibility to adjust your contribution.

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the operative phrase here is

We've reached out to Keolis and the MBTA for details, but as of this writing neither has commented on details or future plans.

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a notice yesterday outlining the details. Basically nothing changes on the Commuter Rail, except now every month they mail you a magnetic card with im assuming a decal on the revers side.

It sounds like a waste of time and money.

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Completely agreed. (One nitpick: it's an RFID card, not a magnetic stripe card.)

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Not quite, its a tappless card (just like you would find at an info booth). One side has the CR ticket printed on it instead of both sides with the CharlieCard logo

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It only took what 11 years to buy the commuter rail the same hand held scanners as the green line?

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Conductors aren't getting card readers.

Their scanners will continue to be their eyes, looking at the text printed on the face of the card.

Regardless, giving conductors CharlieCard readers isn't the solution. Conductors shouldn't be handling fare payment in the first place.

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Then who should collect/check payments? Or your prefer Charlie gates at every commuter stop?

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Caltrain has figured it out.

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But someone still needs to check the proof of payment. Many other cities use full police officers which obviously cost a lot more then a conductor.

But it will never happen in Boston. This is a city too stuck in it's ways to consider a radical change even if it would save time and money in the long run.

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> But someone still needs to check the proof of payment.

Not necessarily for every passenger every time.

One system would be to mostly use the honor system, but have random checks. Have a serious fine for not having a ticket.

I've seen this approach on a subway system, and it seemed to work.

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Even faregates don't seem to stop fare evaders in Boston. Do you really think removing them would work better?

Los Angeles tried the honor system on its subways and later replaced it with faregates.

Vancouver decided to replace their honor system with faregates 5 years ago. They spent about $200 million on a new system and still haven't been able to make it work. Their new faregates stand wide open and they're stuck with an honor system they don't want, 3 years after the gates were installed. Some people can screw things up even worse than they do here.

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Fact: Most systems around the world, including the US, work on the proof of payment system
Fact: LA only added fare gates downtown, where it makes sense that people will ride 1-2 stops which means the odds of encountering a fare check are low. Also, downtown stops are the most crowded, making it hard to check. The London tube, for example, uses the same system. Gates downtown, proof pay payment in suburbs.

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in NY has everyone put their ticket in a little clip on the back of the seat in front of them, to speed up punching. The tickets also expire in a fairly short period of time, so if it's crowded and the guy misses clipping your ticket, you might not have the chance to recycle the ticket.

Since you mentioned Caltrain, their paper tickets expire in a wildly short period of time, 2 hours for a one-way ticket and 1 day for a day pass. (But in general, don't get me started on their Clipper card system. It's slow and clunky and antiquated. The Charlie system is much, much easier to use.)

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Maybe Caltrain wasn't the best example.

http://www.akit.org/2011/02/caltrain-passengers-learn-to-use.html

But printing pass details on a now-disposable RFID card doesn't seem like the way to go. Heck, this could have been done eight years ago.

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because the MBTA has no real interest in fare intergration. This is only being done now because the MBTA is looking for an easy way out to placate their critics who have been calling for fare intergration with the commuter rail all these years.

Sorry if I sound overly cynical, but sometimes you've got to call them like you see them.

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Putting your ticket in the seatback clip isn't an official procedure in New York. Some people just figured it out. Feel free to do it here too.

In New York, one-way tickets expire in 60 days, and 10-trips in 6 months. Here both types expire in 90 days, and 10-trips provide no discount.

Also, the T has the *most expensive* commuter rail fares in the United States. Even after the LIRR/Metro North fare increase this weekend, the T will still be more expensive per mile.

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Also, the T has the *most expensive* commuter rail fares in the United States.

I see that Mineola, around 20 miles from Penn Station, is in LIRR Zone 4, for which a monthly pass will cost $252 with the new fares. West Concord, in MBTA Zone 5, is about the same distance from North Station, and a monthly pass is $265. But that T pass, as we see on this page, includes unlimited bus and subway access. That LIRR pass won't get you onto the subway or bus: you'll need to pay an additional $116.50 for unlimited subway and bus access.

So please provide some numbers to back up your claim.

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Didn't we just have this argument?

A Zone 5 T pass on the smart phone app, with no subway/bus access, is $255.

In NYC, you don't need to pay the extra $116.50 unless you're riding the subway a lot.

Even if NYC eventually edges above Boston in the overpriced public transit contest, should we be relieved that we're #2? Or should we set prices to encourage people not to drive?

There's also no comparison for the level of service you get.

Let's say you live in the city and reverse-commute to Mineola. Between 4 and 8 pm, you could catch a train home at 4:03, 4:33, 4:55, 5:00, 5:32, 5:40, 6:34, 6:44, 6:58, 7:14, 7:20, 7:33, or 7:58 pm.

From West Concord, your options are 5:33 or 7:40. That's it -- take it or leave it. In theory after another 2 weeks of "recovery", they'll also bring back the 4:08. Kind of puts a damper on any idea of work/life flexibility.

Maybe someone who moved from NYC and is used to weekend trains every 30 minutes assumed they could get by without a car in Boston. Well, here you get one weekend train every 3 hours. Oh, and that's only while track work is suspended for the winter. In a few weeks, we're back to zero weekend service on the Fitchburg line until Thanksgiving.

Long Islanders love to complain about the LIRR, but they couldn't dream of the Fitchburg Line's 3% on-time rating for February, even after a disaster like Hurricane Sandy.

(Yet another advantage of EMUs: When powdery snow sidelines a locomotive's traction motor, the whole train gets cancelled. When it happens to an EMU, the train just runs with one less car. http://www.nytimes.com/1994/02/27/nyregion/restoring-cars-to-the-lirr-af... )

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it seems to me that this will go a much longer way toward restoring even a little of the lost goodwill than this foolish half-assed refund program will.

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They tried it out as a test with Zone 7 and 8 in January and March (skipped February), looks like they are expanding it to all zones for April.

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Oh goody. Let's make an electronic payment method usable on the commuter rail by printing the pass information on the face of the card and giving out new cards each month. Fits in perfectly with the doors that have to be opened by conductors.

This is hardly an improvement. And what's the cost to the T for a blank CharlieCard vs. a CharlieTicket? Wasn't the whole point of the CharlieCard to have commuters use the same card for years on end? This harebrained scheme also gives commuters none of the other benefits of CharlieCards, such as online registration and replacement if lost.

http://www.mbta.com/about_the_mbta/news_events/Default.asp?id=10328&mont...

December 1, 2006

Commuter rail riders and boat, express bus, and one- and seven-day pass holders will have to wait until next year to use the new cards …

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According to TransitMatters, they are not doing anything new. My employer-issued commuter rail pass is not a paper Charlie ticket, it's a monthly pass that the conductor just looks at. It has a value, which enables me to take the commuter rail (within my zone) and any other means of transit--subway, bus, etc. He's not describing anything new. My Charlie card is read by the subway turnstiles, the bus fare box, etc. Employers do not generally provide paper Charlie tickets, those are purchased at the station. So what am I missing here?

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Is your pass a flimsy ticket you insert into the slot on fare gates or a rigid card you tap? As noted above, a trial the past few months has given some commuters the passes on CharlieCards that others will be soon getting.

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edit: Saul addressed your question better

Currently, every commuter rail pass is also Charlie ticket - that's why the fareboxes can read them. It's just that conductors don't use the Charlie ticket functionality - they just rely on visual inspection. It sounds like in the new system will work roughly the same way, in that commuter rail conductors will continue to rely on visual inspection.

The advantage is that when you pay at a turnstile or farebox, it's much more convenient to tap a Charlie card rather than waiting to feed a ticket through, partly because you can leave the Charlie card in your wallet and just tap your entire wallet. It's also faster, so if more people switch from using tickets to cards, we would expect the green line and buses to board slightly faster.

So this is a solid step forwards, but unfortunately a lot of people (every commuter rail user without an employer-issued monthly pass) will be left out.

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It's another idiotic gimmick (like the smartphone ticket app that was supposed to be expanded to the subway lines ultil management came up with an excuse not to do that) that will eventually be abandoned when the T figures out the amount of money they're p!ssing away by having to give passholders new RFID cards every month.

And it will still require the T to continue supporting paper tickets at the subway faregates, with the associated costs for maintenance and repair.

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Let's not forget that the T also promised mTicket phone app integration with CharlieCard passes.

The mTicket page currently says:

Monthly passes will not offer a free transfer to Subway and Bus, but will be priced at $10 below the full monthly pass.

Two years ago we were told:

Initially, monthly passes will not offer a free transfer to Subway and Bus, but will be priced at $10 below the full monthly pass. A full monthly pass is expected for mobile in early 2013.

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I do agree it's questionable whether this will actually bring us closer to eliminating the need for paper tickets, but I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm assuming that a high percentage of commuter rail riders get employer-issued passes. Let's call it one third (a complete guess). That would mean in one fell swoop, there are 40,000 fewer people relying on paper tickets when boarding the green line or passing through a crowded turnstile. That's 40,000 people who get most of the benefits of a Charlie card without any effort on the users' part. Sure, they still have to replace it every month, but that's no worse than before.

I don't see this as a long-term solution to fare integration, but rather as a demonstration of the gains from less reliance on paper tickets.

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From tweets with the T, it seems that the ticket slots get gummed up from environmental dust, not so much from repeated usage. So maintenance costs for the fare gates won't go down.

And a blank CharlieCard costs more than a blank Ticket, so there's a net gain in fare collection costs.

who get most of the benefits of a Charlie card

Most? I count one: tapping at subway and bus fare gates/boxes. No keeping the same card month-to-month. No online registration or loading value/passes. No replacement if lost.

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I certainly consider being able to tap a Charlie card the biggest benefit. And it's beneficial to other passengers: slightly less time waiting for someone else to feed a paper ticket through.

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unfortunately a lot of people (every commuter rail user without an employer-issued monthly pass) will be left out

Full disclosure: that'd be me.

For what it's worth, I've found the fare gates to be much more reliable the past month: I can't recall the last time I saw the dreaded "smart card only" message on a gate, whereas in January and earlier it was a fairly frequent sight.

It's still an inconvenience though to not be able to just tap my wallet and go.

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but I see the dreaded "smart card only" message multiple times a week at North Station and Boylston. Particulary annoying when you can't tell the faregate has defaulted to "smart card only" until you're about to enter.

And Boylston ocassionally has the bonus feature that all three faregates (including the 'reduced fare' gate) will be in "smart card only" mode. I normally don't advocate this but it's times like that I thank goodness for the sensors on the inside of the faregates.

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Fair enough. I used to see at least one Smart Card Only gate at Kendall (the unattended entrance) all the time, but have not of late. Used to see it often at Porter too.

In a Twitter exchange a few months ago I was told that gates that are close to the tracks (such as those at Kendall and Central, and at Boylston) are particularly susceptible from rail dust getting in the mechanism.

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Many employers provide paper Charlie tickets (and handle distributing them to everyone each month) for CR and issue a single, automatically recharged Charlie Card for people on bus/subway passes.

It makes zero sense that they would switch to CharlieCard and but also replace them every month. So that must indeed be the plan.

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Yes Minster reference, I have to wonder if a relative of Sir Humphrey Appleby is working in upper MBTA management.

"We're getting increased pressure from commuter rail passengers to convert the monthly passes to CharileCards."

"Fine then. We'll give the passholders their CharlieCards. We'll have to give them a new card every month, but the passengers will still have CharlieCards."

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A bold step into 2010. Welcome.

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To Our Corporate Pass Program Participants,

The Massachusetts Department of Transportation has approved a relief plan for commuters after the hardships caused by a series of severe winter storms.

All monthly pass holders will receive a 15% discount on the cost of a May 2015 monthly pass.

Examples:

Monthly Link Pass Original Price: $ 75.00 May 2015 Discounted Price: $ 63.00
Commuter Rail Zone 1 Original Price: $182.00 May 2015 Discounted Price: $154.00

The tariff rates for all monthly passes will be lowered to reflect the 15% discount and will automatically be displayed in your Pass Program account for the May 2015 benefit period. After the cycle period closes for the May 2015 benefit period, the original tariff rates as published in July 2014 will be restored.

For those Corporate Pass Program participants that are applying pre-tax payroll funding, we suggest that you adjust your specific employee deductions to offset the 15% discount. This would be the easiest way for your employees to see the immediate effect of the discount for the May 2015 benefit period.

Please note that the 15% discount only applies to monthly pass holders and does not apply to 10 Trip Ticket purchases. On April 24, 2015, all transit service will be free across each mode of transportation.

The Massachusetts Department of Transportation wishes to thank you for your continued participation in the Pass Program and to thank your employees for their patience, understanding, and loyalty during this tumultuous winter.

Thank you,

MBTA Pass Program
888-844-0353

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but have to purchase your monthly pass with the provider-issued debit card, I presume you're still stuck with having to get the paper ticket every month. Which means the T will continue to have to maintain multiple fare sales and collection systems.

Brilliant - not!

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Here's another way to look at this "innovation":

The T solved the issue of CharlieCards on the commuter rail by gluing a CharlieTicket pass to a CharlieCard.

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Wouldn't a cheaper solution be to put a monthly bus/subway pass on a regular charliecard and then give a monthly CR ticket ON THE RECEIPT paper that DOESN'T swipe? The everyone with a CR pass has a reuseable card to tap and waves the cardboard to get on the CR only.

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The only problem with that is you could resell one of them separately, which would cost the T some revenue.

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I would love to be able to skip the smart-card-only jam-in-terminal lottery when I'm running for the subway that will let me catch a two-hourly commuter rail train.

I'd also love to skip the less common but still possible turnstile-ate-my-$306-piece-of-paper lottery.

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Man, it wasn't when I worked in Central rather than Kendall. I had to replace mine 3 or 4 times in one *month* once.

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a) corporate only means I can't get this benefit despite having had more than my share of fare gates eating my f$^%ing pass so I had to replace it

b) the waste of money is astounding; why isn't a monthly decal (with security measures, obviously) you can put on the same CharlieCard feasible? Or RFID readers on trains? The former's certainly more cost effective than what they're talking about doing here.

c) YOU CAN'T REGISTER THEM?! Yeah, tapping into stations is a great benefit, but the fact that you still are up a f$^%ing creek if you lose your $300 flipping pass even though it's NOW A SMART CARD is just...ugh.

I'm annoyed. This is a solution I've wanted for a long time, but they did it wrong AND I'm not eligible to even try it.

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An update to the linked page (bolding mine).

With the March CharlieCards/Monthly passes, the end of the 3-month trial program is approaching. Because feedback from customers in the pilot program has been very positive, interim MBTA General Manager Frank DePaola is extending the program. GM DePaola says the CharlieCard/monthly passes are available to all participants in the Corporate Pass Program and customers who purchase monthly passes through the MBTA website.

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I hate this slightly less now.

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