Hey, there! Log in / Register
Girl struck, dragged by car driven by elderly man in West Roxbury Roche Bros. parking lot
Support Universal Hub
Help keep Universal Hub going. If you like what we're up to and want to help out, please consider a (completely non-deductible) contribution.
Comments
Madlib Comment
In 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...
Congrats
It's like you live for this kind of stuff.
Something funny?
Somehow I didn't find it so...
So glad things are so much
So glad things are so much better young Alex than would be expected. Hoping she is back to her usual routine soon.
I'm glad
The young girl will be okay. Parking lots are tricky and hazardous for everyone, made worse when elderly drivers who shouldn't be driving anymore are around. I've had some close calls there.
if they're tricky and hazardous
....then people should slow down and drive more carefully.
Aging population
Source: http://www.cityofboston.gov/images_documents/4-14%20UMASS%20Aging%20Repo...
Boston is in better shape than most of the Commonwealth when it comes to getting elders around without cars, but the Registry continues to be a fee collection agency rather than a public health agency. It is very difficult to get an elder off the road - or any impaired person, for that matter, save for the dated approach to epilepsy.
Perhaps it is time to lobby the legislature for some changes in how the RMV approaches licensing and competency in general? Of course, that would also require the Commonwealth and local communities to address transportation issues for the rapidly growing population of elders. If a completely incompetent driver hitting and dragging a young child isn't enough to even warrant a citation or license removal, then there needs to be some legislative intervention to require systematic screening and testing and removal of unfit drivers.
Now you're citing statistics
Now you're citing statistics and acting like you give a damn after you've been called out for your callous first comment. Think about it next time before you post a snide remark about a little girl being hit by a driver. Oh right... she wasn't riding a bike. Shame on everyone who voices their support for cyclists who get hit by car drivers, but not pedestrians and children who are merely walking through a grocery store parking lot. You know who you are.
Oh deary me!
I've been scolded by an anon! Whatever will I do!
And, yes, so callous to preempt a comment from a notorious user that we all knew was going to happen (and one version of that madlib from that user did appear, just below!).
Swirl
mirror.
Crash protection making cars less safe in these instances
To improve crash protection ratings, car makers have made doors higher with less glass area, pillars bigger, rearward trunks/hatch solid areas higher, and overall less visibility than cars 20 or more years older. Its so bad now that rear backup cameras are becoming standard equipment on some brands, and more and more companies now offer proximity detectors. Cars have gotten higher and higher with more and more rolling over, and parents backing up over their own children whom they can't see from enormous SUVs best suited to child car seats (higher so less back breaking to get kids in and out).
Compound less glass area with the lower flexibility of older bodies to twist torsos and necks to try and see around them, and its a sure thing more such parking lot collision will occur. Its the price of enhanced crash protection regulations and child seat laws.
Older drivers creating new drive-throughs have their cause too: Only 3% of US cars now selling with manual transmissions. With a clutch, there is a safeguard when mistaking gas and brake pedal in the less likely chance they are confused. Sadly, anti-car policies and the failure of government to meet the transportation demands of the public with more capacity increases stop and go traffic and more use of automatic transmissions in the US than most other countries.
My points: 1. There is no free lunch. 2. Beware of unintended consequences.
Not talking about your points, just your evidence
Reading this just irritates me far more than it should have. I don't care about the final conclusions. It just doesn't stick to me, but goddamn, your reasoning and connections you just made had made no goddamn sense.
1. You connected growing use of proximity sensors and cameras as a sign that the accidents is getting worse? Maybe it is just the natural progression of feature that started in luxury so a whole much of other features that is standard these days? That cameras and sensors have just kept getting cheaper while the selling point value never change to the consumer?
2. You made a connection that higher SUV spurred by child car seats. I'm pretty sure it is just the fact we been choosing giant SUVs to buy than laws. We have been choosing to buy bigger and bigger cars for years, long before these laws.
3. And you made a connection the decline of manual transmission - that would be indirectly related by the clutch - declined because of "anti-car" policies and "failure" by government to meet capacity... in other words stop-and-go traffic drove everyone to automatic. Well.... I can see the logic in that.. heynowaitaminute! Have you ever tried driving in Paris? By that logic, Europe would have went Automatic long, long ago. Our switch to Automatic is driven by trends in our culture, same as the higher SUVs and cameras.
Make connections where it makes sense, from the flaws I point above, you are just looking for connections there really isn't any at all.
No space for a book
I tried to make a few short points without detailing an exhaustive analysis of automotive and consumer trends. I'm not sure what you are expecting in a comment section of a news blog.
1. Yes, the technology is affordable. It wouldn't be developed and sold if there were not a need.
2.There are many reasons why consumers have shifted from the long, low slung stations wagons of last century to Chrysler and its copiers mini-vans. Compared to minivans, SUVs are sexier, less emasculating for men, less soccer mom for women.
But here is an anecdote. I studied the "cash for clunkers" federal auto stimulus program for gas guzzlers over 10 years old. 9 of the top 10 vehicles traded in were mini vans or SUVs and the popular replacement was a 4 door sedan. What that data fits is a family whose children have aged out of car seats.
3. Sure, shifting gets in the way of texting and is such hard work for lazy Americans. Its also a bad trend where driving isn't savored as a primary activity, but one of many in a multi-tasking environment complete with electronic infotainment video game technology.
lmao
Any man who thinks that SUVs are sexier, or that they make him sexier, than a minivan is hilariously mistaken.
I expect when people make
I expect when people make claims, the claims are reasonable to follow. When claims like you made is particularly "wtf", then yeah, I have a problem and chime in to point it out.
You made claims connecting laws and politics to current trends in cars. The connections were strenuous at best. The connections you made just annoys me on a particular level. There are multiple forces driving stuff, but at some point noting some things no longer adding another element to note, but just trying to see thing where it's not really there.
So which things can't you follow?
I'll try to explain them to you with smaller steps.
The safeguard for people who
The safeguard for people who mistake the gas for the brake are taking their licenses away before they hit another little kid.
Build a better parking lot
The West Roxbury Roche Brothers parking lot is my "Exhibit A" of poorly designed parking lots. It's no surprise an accident happened there. My surprise is that it didn't happen sooner.
There's simply not enough room for so much constant traffic. The lanes are narrow, and cars must make wide turns to get into the spots at sharp 90 degree angles. And since traffic is 2 way, you often find yourself making a wide turn into the opposite lane, and blocking that lane, just to enter or exit your spot.
Some ideas to help would be to make the lanes 1 way, or to increase the width of the spots to you don't have to make such a sharp turn. Or, good heavens, revert back to angle spots, instead of forcing everyone to make sharp turns.
This is a fair criticism
Not just about this parking lot, but parking lots in general -- when space is tight, they stripe 'em so as to fit in more cars. When you get a lot of high-profile vehicles, and you throw a lot of random pedestrian action into the mix, it's really hard to operate safely in these tightly-spaced lots. My solution? GO SLOW. There really isn't any reason at all to zoom through a parking lot, and many reasons not to.
How...
Sympathies and thoughts with this young girl. That said, I am enraged that such unfit elderly drivers are on the road. It's a joke, and people are maimed and killed every day because of it. They're a public health risk, and, frankly, no one over the age of 80 should be allowed to drive.
Maybe they should all just
be put to sleep.
Age is a very crude indicator
My elderly MIL, who is over 80, hasn't had an accident in years. Her mother drove until she was 94 years old, and willingly gave it up when her vision started to slide (and before she had any accidents or failed a vision test).
On the other hand, our elderly neighbor was a menace on the road. He damaged our car backing into our driveway. The police couldn't even yank his license, and his doctor told him not to drive but couldn't yank his license. He finally hit a rock wall, narrowly missing a group of high school students, and his mechanic lied to him about his car being totaled. He was 75 at the time.
That horrible accident in Somerville where a teen was hit in the crosswalk and a car exploded in flames? The impaired driver was in her 50s.
Age is an important indicator, but impairment can hit at any age. Doctors should be empowered to challenge a driving license if they think that their patient isn't fit to drive, and regular screening at renewal would also be good. It would also get around the "age discrimination" complaints of the AARP.
I really don't understand why some of that time spent in the registry waiting for a photo can't be spent sitting in a simulator. Fail the simulator? Get a medical clearance and sit through a road test. Also, with universal health coverage meaning no copay for a physical, one should have to submit evidence of medical fitness to renew.
The plural of anecdote...
... is not data.
Yes
And?
The original poster gave a blanket age limit. I showed several examples why that is a bad idea. I could show citations showing specific population-based declines with age coupled with incidence of diabetes,etc. But I did note that these were illustrative, not conclusive.
The reality is that the AARP fights any and all age-related attempts to get deteriorating drivers off of the road, and they are partly right: we should be testing everyone and requiring a medical fitness form at renewal (if nothing else, to force people to get a free physical every five years).
Because the medical fitness system
has worked so well in keeping unfit commercial drivers off the road - not. Check out any one of several NTSB reports about a fatal crash involving truck or bus drivers and note how often they cite a medical condition that was not reported to or picked up by the drivers DOT or personal doctor.
Ok...so...
OK, so what's your transportation alternative? Should they simply sit at home, out of sight and out of mind?
Via ice floe, obviously!
Isn't the answer obvious?
No
They can walk. Uphill, both ways. In three feet of snow, with no shoes. Just like when they were kids.
Elderly people who have no
Elderly people who have no business being on the road will continue to be a hazard. Old people vote. No legislator would dare even to suggest that there should be retesting after a certain age.
Elder driving
Generally, there are two ways an elderly person will lose their license:
- they have an "accident" like this and the police revoke the license
- the family convinces the driver that they should not be driving
Years ago, I was on the phone with my mother and she casually mentioned that she drove to the store to get something. I didn't think she was driving anymore, because there was no way she should have been. Right then, we had the discussion how we didn't want her to get hurt, and much more importantly, how we didn't want her to hurt someone else. Somehow, we convinced her and she never drove again. Scary, though.
Man, this little girl - and the driver - are extremely lucky. The father was incredibly forgiving:
I'm not sure I would have reacted the same......
It isn't even that easy
A coworker was dealing with her elderly mother, who has dementia and would drive for hours, sometimes until the tank ran out.
Despite her mental state, her doctor, family, and the cops couldn't get her off the road. My coworker finally took away the keys and the car, and then convinced her mother that she had given her car away to her niece (because she didn't have the memory to remember doing that). The woman still had her license, though.
It's never easy
Sometimes the younger generation (I.e. children of the elderly driver) are not in agreement about the severity of the situation and the need to "take the keys". In my family, it was necessary for me to "borrow the car" until the state thankfully required a re-test. Siblings were either unconvinced or unwilling to take a stand. I still do not know what prompted the notice from the state, but i suspect it was at the request of the physician. We all got a reprieve from having to force the issue and take the blame as the state was now to blame (she couldn't pass the written test and didn't even get to the actual behind the wheel test).
A year later she still brings it up every time I talk to her. Thank god it worked out before someone was hurt. Even when there are other options for transportation (often there are not), in this part of the world driving is such an integral part of identity, "freedom" and the all important INDEPENDENCE, a word I have learned to despise.
Yes, 80 is a reasonable age to at least require a trip to the registry for a simple test. That would save the family from the difficult task which many families are unable or unwilling to do. What is the downside? Inconvenience? If there is a minimum age for driving there ought to be a maximum as well to at least be tested to weed out the completely unfit.
And yes, that Roche Bros. parking lot is hazardous even if you don't have dementia.
Last night there was a wrong way elderly driver
on the highway (Rt. 3 in Duxbury). Fortunately nobody got hurt.
two reactions and an anecdote
I don't drive, so I don't really have a dog in this fight, but:
- glad the kid is going to be okay;
- when people renew their licenses, they should probably have to re-take the driving test every time. If they're over a certain age, perhaps they should have to re-take it more frequently; and
- anecdote time: my grandmother voluntarily gave up her car about 10 years ago, because even though she'd never had a problem, she knew it was more and more likely the older she got. My parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc., all live relatively nearby, so she's always able to get a ride when she needs it. It's probably a much harder choice to make if you're elderly and your family isn't around - but lucky for her and all of us, she was able to stop driving and still get around wherever she needed.