It *is* extremely irresponsible to drive 60MPH after dark, when you know that your headlights don't reflect off of anything less of neon orange at the established 260 foot required-stopping-distance.
Speeds of 40 MPH are considered safe on Storrow Drive. Given Markk's figures, crossing while wearing what I typically wear would make me a goner if I depended on a driver stopping in time.
He might be an ass (in general), but he's right. Wearing dark clothes at night (guilty as charged) and expecting to be seen by drivers is a fool's errand.
I do apologize for just taking what I could get online rather than producing my own graphic.
Most modern car stopping distances at 60 mph are 120 feet or less on dry pavement, so the graphic includes a liberal amount of reaction time and allowance for crappy vehicle stopping distances.
I do hope the picture is clear that pedestrians are safer when they choose to wear more conspicuous outerwear and/or reflective elements.
Driver here won't be responsible for hitting the pedestrian, as the roadway is specifically for drivers.
Drivers driving through areas with lots of crosswalks are completely and totally responsible for hitting people, because it is expected that people will be using the roadway and the roadway is for people to use, not just drivers.
How do you distinguish between the populated Esplanade and a populated street? Why should people expect jay walking one place but not another? You still don't make sense. Neither situation is OK for jay walking.
Its not fenced off from Storrow Drive to prevent pedestrians and cyclists from accessing it, so, in this case they did. Walk Boston has actively lobbied against having fences to protect pedestrians from hurting themselves jay walking.
Expect to share the roadway. Slow down. Be aware of the limits of your head lights. Pay attention to following distance, braking distance, and what is going on to the sides.
Drivers do not get held responsible in Boston even when they very clearly violate traffic laws, kill someone, and leave the scene. This driver won't be held responsible for hitting someone playing frogger.
That is not the same as saying that drivers should be expected to pay attention to where they are and what is going on around them, which is what you object to because you are infected with driver entitlement.
Bottom line: if you don't hit someone in the first place, you are good in any case. Wear your head out, your attitude where your head was, and pay attention. If you can't manage that, don't drive.
Well, yes, because if you put up a giant fence with razor wire on top, then pedestrians crossing from the other direction are apt to find themselves trapped when they reach the Esplanade side. Which, based on your comment history, is probably something that would cause you to cackle with glee, but which most folks would consider a bad outcome.
Also, I assume that everyone who drives on Storrow has had a pedestrian hop the jersey barrier and try to cross in front of them. I certainly have. And yet, somehow, most of us manage not to mow them down at high speed, even when they're not clad in a neon orange reflective tape tuxedo. I wonder why that might be.
Actually, on a reread, you might actually be suggesting that we put up cyclone fences topped with razor wire on BOTH SIDES of Storrow. For safety. To which I would humbly counter-propose that we put the fence up around Arlington instead, because I don't want you in a car within half a mile of me, regardless of whether I'm on foot or behind the wheel.
more than you. I presume that they will look and see the fence somewhere in the crossing and be dissuaded rather than wait until immediately confronted by each challenge. At some point rational beings will decide its easier to walk to the overpass than climb over a fence and dodge traffic twice.
I don't think anyone's trying to make the argument that jaywalking is always "OK" or never dangerous. However, it's something us drivers need to be alert about in areas where pedestrians are also around the same road with cars. What they were saying sounds pretty simple - you don't expect pedestrians on storrow drive because it is not set up like a city street. Say, Newbury or Boylston.
Unrelated to this story but last winter a woman fell from the BU Bridge onto Storrow drive. As I recall there was some speculation that she slipped on the ice and snow build up which effectually lowered the railing on the BU bridge and would have made it theoretically possible for someone to slide right over the edge.
I never heard anything else about this strange and disturbing incident which was not widely reported at the time.
Anyone know the end of the story? As I recall the woman did not die at the scene.
Welcome to Universal Hub. Sometimes I and other contributors write longish pieces. And sometimes I link to reports on other sites. If you click on the blue text, you'll find a more detailed account. HTH.
Did you know that biking on Storrow Drive is legal. Bicyclists can only be prohibited by posting signs, the DCR could prohibit bicyclists on Storrow Drive, but they refuse to post signage.
Saw a cyclist on a hubway bike and a jogger on Storrow this past summer... seemed rather dangerous. Quite frankly, I think the cyclist was impaired as he was swerving quite a bit.
So sorry to disappoint, but the man wasn't killed, but "seriously hurt" with life-threatening injuries. I know it won't give you the same kind of pleasure, since he wasn't killed outright, but perhaps you can get your giggles imagining his long and painful recovery.
So you've got your people on the left side screaming about driver error and how the driver should have been watching and its all his fault and on and on and on......
Then you've got your people on the right who say well this gentleman shouldn't have been there in the first place. How could you expect a driver to go 30 in a 40 just because its dark?....
Well lets clear up some facts for you guys seeing as how you all had sooooo much information to go off with this article clear depiction of what happened.... Just so you guys are aware i was the car directly behind and to the left of the car that hit the gentleman. First off the area where the gentleman was hit is absolutely closed off to pedestrians there is in fact a Fence more than six feet high to stop people from crossing. Anyone living in Boston would know this area very well. There is parking under the overpass and a fence that stops people from crossing that runs the entire length of the overpass. Now on the other side of the road there is in fact a sidewalk for people to walk on that is only accessible when you walk over the overpass about one mile further down the road or if there is an event going on in which case the right hand lane of storrow would be closed down.
This gentleman takes it apon himself to squeeze his body between the concrete of the overpass and the fence post and promptly step in front of traffic that was moving at 40 miles an hour with about 8 to 10 feet of clearance between him and the first car. The car in front of me slams on his breaks as the man goes into a full sprint across the highway the problem here is he didn't allow anytime for someone to see him he literately stuck his body through the space and ran across the highway without any hesitation or looking at traffic. The car in the right lane was about 4 feet or so behind the car in the left hand lane (front to front) and would not have been able to see the guy in ANY WAY. As the the man bolted across the road his right foot was hit by the car in the left hand lane and he made impact with left front side of the car in the right lane with his upper body. He promptly shoulder rolled and flipped into the air and landed and then skidded about 5 to 10 feet.
I exited my car after instructing my passengers to call 911 and checked on the gentleman. He was not in good condition as you can imagine. As i cleared the area and started to get traffic moving so emergency vehicles could get to us the gentleman who was driving the car that hit him was hysterical and uncontrollably crying, understandably, while trying to give info to the 911 operator.
From someone who was there and seen everything first hand.... I find it appalling that a group of people on the internet would just start saying whatever they want and pointing blame at the driver with no information on what happened in anyway. These comments are public and just think about how bad this guy already feels. He hit another human with his car and had no control over the situation. This guy has to live with this for the rest of his life. I seen how sorry he was but. I guess the people on the internet who weren't there know better.
I will say this and leave it at this.....
Pedestrians and Drivers both have a responsibility to pay attention to the road. Pedestrians have signs and walk ways with rules that are promptly broken multiple times a day in Boston (I drive upwards of 300 miles a day in and around Boston). Pedestrians in Boston do not look both ways or stop looking at there phone to walk across or even look at the lights and walk signs they simply walk right into the road. PEDESTRIANS are responsible for their lives too..... As for drivers they don't pay attention as much as they should either weather it be carelessness, overwhelmed with street signs and lane closers, lights, or traffic. The list goes on. The point is there is a lot that drivers have to pay attention to and so little that a pedestrian has too. It is unfair to simply say "whelp the driver should have been paying attention" when there are countless things that can and do happen. Pedestrians need to stop for a second and check if conditions are OK for them to cross ie. (Traffic conditions, do i have a walk symbol?, is this an area of road i should be crossing?, will this driver be able to see me?) just as much as a driver should be aware there is a person standing on the side of the road that could just step into traffic at any moment. The time has come for us to stop assuming the driver is in the wrong always and start holding ourselves and other pedestrians more accountable for our/their poor choices.
and know that lack of information never held back some people for blaming drivers for everything on Uhub, just because they drive a car and not ride a bicycle or take the MBTA. You sounded like you did a good job to assist at the scene too.
Comments
Again, drivers not wearing night vision goggles
to see deer, moose, squirrels, and pedestrians running into the road.
Yeah no one uses us.
Yeah no one uses us.
Too many thoughtless people wearing dark clothing at night
Yes, I agree.
It *is* extremely irresponsible to drive 60MPH after dark, when you know that your headlights don't reflect off of anything less of neon orange at the established 260 foot required-stopping-distance.
Ass.
Whoosh. You missed the message
which is that you are much safer wearing white or reflective clothing at night.
That is something YOU have control over, unlike how fast drivers will be traveling as YOU decide to J-Walk.
Someone doesn't drive
Speeds of 40 MPH are considered safe on Storrow Drive. Given Markk's figures, crossing while wearing what I typically wear would make me a goner if I depended on a driver stopping in time.
He might be an ass (in general), but he's right. Wearing dark clothes at night (guilty as charged) and expecting to be seen by drivers is a fool's errand.
Find me a 40-45 MPH graphic
I do apologize for just taking what I could get online rather than producing my own graphic.
Most modern car stopping distances at 60 mph are 120 feet or less on dry pavement, so the graphic includes a liberal amount of reaction time and allowance for crappy vehicle stopping distances.
I do hope the picture is clear that pedestrians are safer when they choose to wear more conspicuous outerwear and/or reflective elements.
I'm just scaling your graphic
Say 30 MPH gives half the distance (130 feet), I'm a goner since the driver can only see me in my dark blue coat 55 feet away.
You realize I'm agreeing with you.
I do need something reflective for my walk home.
Braking distance is non-linear
But better visibility can be a simple as a white scarf or reflective wristbands.
And that won't even matter
If you are driving too fast and have your head up your arse.
Which is what you seem to think that you have some right to do.
Expectation
Driver here won't be responsible for hitting the pedestrian, as the roadway is specifically for drivers.
Drivers driving through areas with lots of crosswalks are completely and totally responsible for hitting people, because it is expected that people will be using the roadway and the roadway is for people to use, not just drivers.
See the difference?
Expect Jay walkers?
How do you distinguish between the populated Esplanade and a populated street? Why should people expect jay walking one place but not another? You still don't make sense. Neither situation is OK for jay walking.
Once more for the addled
Does a street have sidewalks? Does it have crosswalks? Does it have intersecting roadways and driveways?
EXPECT PEOPLE TO USE THE ROADS.
Simple.
Cars do not have special rights - drivers have special responsibilities.
If you can't tell the difference between a limited access roadway and a city street, time to start riding the bus, pops!
Storrow has intersections and
Storrow has intersections and sidewalks near Charles Street and a reduced speed limit and no restrictions posted for bicyclists.
Yep
That was part of the point - it isn't a freeway, even if it is closer to one in design than Comm Ave.
I don't bike on it or frogger across it, but I pay attention to the conditions when I drive it.
Storrow is not a limited
Storrow is not a limited access highway by definition but only by presumption and ignorance and plenty of optimistic driver imagination.
Storrow Drive is absolutely a
Storrow Drive is absolutely a limited-access highway. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storrow_Drive#Pedestrian_crossings
The Esplanade has sidewalks and pedestrian crossings
Its not fenced off from Storrow Drive to prevent pedestrians and cyclists from accessing it, so, in this case they did. Walk Boston has actively lobbied against having fences to protect pedestrians from hurting themselves jay walking.
Therefore
Expect to share the roadway. Slow down. Be aware of the limits of your head lights. Pay attention to following distance, braking distance, and what is going on to the sides.
Way to contradict yourself Swirly
http://www.universalhub.com/2015/man-tried-running-across-storrow-drive-...
As you may have noted
Drivers do not get held responsible in Boston even when they very clearly violate traffic laws, kill someone, and leave the scene. This driver won't be held responsible for hitting someone playing frogger.
That is not the same as saying that drivers should be expected to pay attention to where they are and what is going on around them, which is what you object to because you are infected with driver entitlement.
Bottom line: if you don't hit someone in the first place, you are good in any case. Wear your head out, your attitude where your head was, and pay attention. If you can't manage that, don't drive.
Well, yes, because if you put
Well, yes, because if you put up a giant fence with razor wire on top, then pedestrians crossing from the other direction are apt to find themselves trapped when they reach the Esplanade side. Which, based on your comment history, is probably something that would cause you to cackle with glee, but which most folks would consider a bad outcome.
Also, I assume that everyone who drives on Storrow has had a pedestrian hop the jersey barrier and try to cross in front of them. I certainly have. And yet, somehow, most of us manage not to mow them down at high speed, even when they're not clad in a neon orange reflective tape tuxedo. I wonder why that might be.
On a reread...
Actually, on a reread, you might actually be suggesting that we put up cyclone fences topped with razor wire on BOTH SIDES of Storrow. For safety. To which I would humbly counter-propose that we put the fence up around Arlington instead, because I don't want you in a car within half a mile of me, regardless of whether I'm on foot or behind the wheel.
Perhaps I overestimate the intelligence of people
more than you. I presume that they will look and see the fence somewhere in the crossing and be dissuaded rather than wait until immediately confronted by each challenge. At some point rational beings will decide its easier to walk to the overpass than climb over a fence and dodge traffic twice.
Tourist-Pedestrians Frequently Cross Storrow Drive In This Area
Ah!
What Episode of what Show is that?
What Episode of what Show is that?
It's
"A Bit of Fry and Laurie". Dunno the episode.
Pick me, pick me!
You don't drive on the Esplanade. At least, you're really not supposed to.
Do you drive on the Esplanade, MarKKK?
I don't think anyone's trying
I don't think anyone's trying to make the argument that jaywalking is always "OK" or never dangerous. However, it's something us drivers need to be alert about in areas where pedestrians are also around the same road with cars. What they were saying sounds pretty simple - you don't expect pedestrians on storrow drive because it is not set up like a city street. Say, Newbury or Boylston.
Woman who fell into Storrow?
Unrelated to this story but last winter a woman fell from the BU Bridge onto Storrow drive. As I recall there was some speculation that she slipped on the ice and snow build up which effectually lowered the railing on the BU bridge and would have made it theoretically possible for someone to slide right over the edge.
I never heard anything else about this strange and disturbing incident which was not widely reported at the time.
Anyone know the end of the story? As I recall the woman did not die at the scene.
This was the UHub story from Feb 4th, 2015
a one sentence article. great
a one sentence article. great work.
Best investigative sentence!
Welcome to Universal Hub. Sometimes I and other contributors write longish pieces. And sometimes I link to reports on other sites. If you click on the blue text, you'll find a more detailed account. HTH.
Jayzus
If you don't like the product, don't renew your subscription or just stop buying it every day.
Still, his one line is more than the Metro will give the story tomorrow.
Biking on Storrow Drive
Did you know that biking on Storrow Drive is legal. Bicyclists can only be prohibited by posting signs, the DCR could prohibit bicyclists on Storrow Drive, but they refuse to post signage.
Saw a cyclist on a hubway
Saw a cyclist on a hubway bike and a jogger on Storrow this past summer... seemed rather dangerous. Quite frankly, I think the cyclist was impaired as he was swerving quite a bit.
I think
It's a little more complicated than putting up a sign.
Thus...
The herd is thinned.
So sorry to disappoint
So sorry to disappoint, but the man wasn't killed, but "seriously hurt" with life-threatening injuries. I know it won't give you the same kind of pleasure, since he wasn't killed outright, but perhaps you can get your giggles imagining his long and painful recovery.
Wow! All this and none of you where even there but.... I Was.
So you've got your people on the left side screaming about driver error and how the driver should have been watching and its all his fault and on and on and on......
Then you've got your people on the right who say well this gentleman shouldn't have been there in the first place. How could you expect a driver to go 30 in a 40 just because its dark?....
Well lets clear up some facts for you guys seeing as how you all had sooooo much information to go off with this article clear depiction of what happened.... Just so you guys are aware i was the car directly behind and to the left of the car that hit the gentleman. First off the area where the gentleman was hit is absolutely closed off to pedestrians there is in fact a Fence more than six feet high to stop people from crossing. Anyone living in Boston would know this area very well. There is parking under the overpass and a fence that stops people from crossing that runs the entire length of the overpass. Now on the other side of the road there is in fact a sidewalk for people to walk on that is only accessible when you walk over the overpass about one mile further down the road or if there is an event going on in which case the right hand lane of storrow would be closed down.
This gentleman takes it apon himself to squeeze his body between the concrete of the overpass and the fence post and promptly step in front of traffic that was moving at 40 miles an hour with about 8 to 10 feet of clearance between him and the first car. The car in front of me slams on his breaks as the man goes into a full sprint across the highway the problem here is he didn't allow anytime for someone to see him he literately stuck his body through the space and ran across the highway without any hesitation or looking at traffic. The car in the right lane was about 4 feet or so behind the car in the left hand lane (front to front) and would not have been able to see the guy in ANY WAY. As the the man bolted across the road his right foot was hit by the car in the left hand lane and he made impact with left front side of the car in the right lane with his upper body. He promptly shoulder rolled and flipped into the air and landed and then skidded about 5 to 10 feet.
I exited my car after instructing my passengers to call 911 and checked on the gentleman. He was not in good condition as you can imagine. As i cleared the area and started to get traffic moving so emergency vehicles could get to us the gentleman who was driving the car that hit him was hysterical and uncontrollably crying, understandably, while trying to give info to the 911 operator.
From someone who was there and seen everything first hand.... I find it appalling that a group of people on the internet would just start saying whatever they want and pointing blame at the driver with no information on what happened in anyway. These comments are public and just think about how bad this guy already feels. He hit another human with his car and had no control over the situation. This guy has to live with this for the rest of his life. I seen how sorry he was but. I guess the people on the internet who weren't there know better.
I will say this and leave it at this.....
Pedestrians and Drivers both have a responsibility to pay attention to the road. Pedestrians have signs and walk ways with rules that are promptly broken multiple times a day in Boston (I drive upwards of 300 miles a day in and around Boston). Pedestrians in Boston do not look both ways or stop looking at there phone to walk across or even look at the lights and walk signs they simply walk right into the road. PEDESTRIANS are responsible for their lives too..... As for drivers they don't pay attention as much as they should either weather it be carelessness, overwhelmed with street signs and lane closers, lights, or traffic. The list goes on. The point is there is a lot that drivers have to pay attention to and so little that a pedestrian has too. It is unfair to simply say "whelp the driver should have been paying attention" when there are countless things that can and do happen. Pedestrians need to stop for a second and check if conditions are OK for them to cross ie. (Traffic conditions, do i have a walk symbol?, is this an area of road i should be crossing?, will this driver be able to see me?) just as much as a driver should be aware there is a person standing on the side of the road that could just step into traffic at any moment. The time has come for us to stop assuming the driver is in the wrong always and start holding ourselves and other pedestrians more accountable for our/their poor choices.
Thanks for supplying information
and know that lack of information never held back some people for blaming drivers for everything on Uhub, just because they drive a car and not ride a bicycle or take the MBTA. You sounded like you did a good job to assist at the scene too.