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Maybe the Olympics people should hand out traffic cones with their logo on them
By adamg on Fri, 03/20/2015 - 10:39am
In contrast to the idea of a Boston Olympics, Bostonians love them some space savers. WBUR reports:
70 percent of Boston residents are in favor of the use of space savers, despite the controversy, vandalism and parking challenges the tradition brings each winter.
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Comments
"Among the 229 Boston voters
"Among the 229 Boston voters polled"
Thats quite the sample size.
Especially when they dont break out the demographics of the sample. How many sampled own a car vs the census rate? Income levels? Neighborhoods?
I didn't notice that insanely
I didn't notice that insanely small sample size at first.
A lot of these polls are small
Usually on the order of a few hundred. The latest Olympics poll was only on 500 people.
EDIT: This is actually coming from the same poll. But yes, a lot of the WBUR polls are smaller, because that's what is actually achievable by cold calling people.
Cold-Calling Landlines Yields a Weird Sample
If they cold-call landlines, they're probably getting the over-60 set that's been using space-savers for decades. Naturally they'll want to save a spot in front of their house because they feel entitled to it after all these years, and it's all the more important now, because they don't want to have to walk five blocks and potentially break a hip.
Over 60 set...? I don't think
Over 60 set...? I don't think so. Our household is 30-somerhings and we still have a land line. Everyone I know who has steady emoyment and is over the age of 25 has mobile and land. Maybe it's different in the 'burbs and among the under-emoloyed? Thankfully there's no space saving in my neighborhood despite the lack of parking, however I wouldn't vote against it for other neighborhoods... vandalism is much worse in South End since a select few banned it for everyone.
seriously?!
I'm in my late 20's, my friends are mostly mid-late 20's to mid 30's. I have a professional job, so does everyone I know, except for the people in grad school. I literally do not know anyone who has a land line phone. Different crowds, I guess.
How big should the sample
How big should the sample size be?
It's been a long time since I've taken a statistics course, but based on this calculator, 200 people is more than enough to get you within 10% of the correct number.
The website notes a 6.5%
The website notes a 6.5% margin of error, which is somewhat large. But more important is how representative the sample is. If all the people sampled were wealthy international BU students, for example, it would mean jack shit when talking about Boston as a whole.
According to the link provided in the next comment, 20% of those sampled do not have a car vs 40% Boston overall rate. So when yuore asking a car-related question, this survey seems bunk.
Another sampling issue
If people were contacted by phone, was it all land-line phones or land-line and cellular phones?
Makes a difference in which demographic you end up sampling.
These polls also have crosstabs
http://s3.amazonaws.com/media.wbur.org/wordpress/1/files/2015/03/Crossta...
So you can see how well the random sample represents the population.
20% surveyed dont have a car
20% surveyed dont have a car vs 40% census dont have a car. Bad survey.
What difference does that
What difference does that make, when the numbers are virtually identical for both groups?
Not bad
Surveys are fundamentally limited in what they are able to show.
Example - this is registered voters. If you look at the age range, it skews much older than what you would see in census data, because older people are more likely to be registered voters.
So you don't say "This survey is bad", you say, "It appears that among this sample of people, most are in favor of space savers, with the catch that many of them are older than the median age of the city and more of them have cars."
Interesting
75% of Democrats think space savers are ok, but only 46% of Republicans. Space savers are more favored by women than men, and slightly more favored by the young vs the old. Last part is quite surprising.
Negative correlation between income and pro-space saver-ness.
They talk about how much
They talk about how much Boston will benefit financially when the Olympics arrive in Boston if they do.
But,they do not talk about neighborhoods in Boston, Roxbury, Dorchester, East Boston how will the olympics impact small businesses in these neighborhoods. What will the Olympic commitee do to make sure that the tourist dollar would be spent in neighhorhoods instead of just Boston proper.
Olympic Commitee should reach out to neighborhoods too.
The majority
After reading all the ignorant space saver hate on Uhub for the last 2 months, I am happy to see I'm in the majority. Space savers may not always be pretty but they work in times of need.
But you're NOT, Blanche
...you're not.
What is your basis for
What is your basis for claiming that? This poll shows a strong preference for space savers in the City of Boston, as do the late Mayor Menino's actions for his entire term of office. Do you have a single piece of evidence to support your assertion that anon's opinion is not the majority opinion (other than the UH comment boards)?
My basis
is as good as anon's basis. But I'm not the one with the burden of proof on me. That's the difference.
Um, no. Anon's basis is the
Um, no. Anon's basis is the poll that Adam cited. You know, actual numbers.
Bullshit numbers
Small unqualified sample set. Bullshit.
Sure thing, if you say so.
Sure thing, if you say so. Feel free to post your numbers any time.
That might be hard
It might be hard for IBB to find 220+ Boston residents to ask when they don't live in the city themselves.
Therefore
Bostonians actually favor the Olympics, since the same poll only shows 36% support?
Look, people like to listen to other people parrot their opinion. I'm very
Iittle different (in that I like to hear the other side, too). But if you learn about statistical sampling, it's a valid sample size. That doesn't mean that every corner of Boston thinks the same about space saving, the Olympics, or anything else. But that is a different survey.
I am anon
Scratchie is correct. lbb is not.
In addition, my own personal poll of family, friends, neighbors, and acquaintances in Dorchester shows support for space savers is 100%.
By the way, yesterday, finally, the city picked up savers in my neighborhood. Mine was gone the day before. Everything is back to normal, and Uhub worriers can worry about something else, like bicycle lanes.
Or
Globe Direct!
You're also not a Boston voter
Did you miss this part?
I don't know....
If I'd want the Chase logo on my space saver......
Your Car vs Their Car
Everyone is in favor of their own space saver.
Everyone is opposed to everyone else's space saver.
Everyone thinks they have a special circumstance which justifies their use of a space saver.
Everyone thinks everyone else's reasons are crap and they should leave the spot open.
Sometimes the majority isn't right. If you went with what the majority of people wanted you'd have 0% tax rates and abundant, high quality public services and handouts for everyone.
Everyone is in favor of their
Actually, that's bullshit, even if you felt extremely clever while you were typing it. If you click through to the actual poll results that were posted, you'll see that even people who don't even own a car are in favor of space savers by a wide margin.
Haters
The anti space saving people want to create a caliphate of no space savers across the City. Like everything else posted here the few nonresidents want to tell the rest of us how to live.
Whoa whoa whoa
First, "caliphate"? Really??
Second, there's a pretty good mix of residents here (myself included) that think space saving has gotten a little out of hand lately.
This is why no one takes anon comments seriously.
Space savers versus Olympics
Space saving issues are only relative to the specifics of each neighborhood while the Olympics will affect the entire region. Polling on the two issues together is lazy polling.
Asking “Boston area voters” as defined as communities inside route 128 about space saving is completely unfair and that part of the survey should be thrown out and WBUR should get their money back. A resident of Boston’s North End is going to have a drastically different experience and opinion about street parking during the winter versus a resident of Milton or Belmont.
I don't think that's happening here
I think they only asked the Boston-specific questions regarding Walsh and space saving to the people that said that they live in Boston proper.
Yeah, Bostononians will trash
Yeah, Bostononians will trash our own city with space savers, thank you very much. We don't need the olympics coming in here taking public property, space savers do that in a puritanical way that gives us that New Hampshire backyard feel.
i get that you are trying
i get that you are trying hard to instill your anti-Olympus radical ideas, but I do not see the correlation
It's a joke
Maybe not a good one, but still, I can explain it if you'd like (hint: It has to do with the results of the two polls WBUR released yesterday).
Pro-Olympic Anons
Seems to be a lot of "information lite" commenting from our Anons in favor of the Olympics.
Meanwhile, a wide range of regulars here, people who would hardly ever agree about anything, are joining in to
say negative and bad and mean thingsask a lot of critical questions about the vacuous saccharine Pollyanna spin emanating from Boston 2024.registering
I wish many of these 'pro olympic' people would register. Would make their cases far more valid than a bunch of non-name anon's replying to each other.
What does registering have to do with anything?
You're just as anon as I am "cybah"
What ever you just said is
What ever you just said is strictly your opinion. If you want to disagree with everyone you have the chance to disagree with, then that is your right. If you want to think I am not a Uhub regular then that is fine. If you want to try to bring me down by calling me an "anon", then that is fine as well. I hope you are enjoying yourself behind that keyboard.
52% oppose, 36% support
I think your definition of "radical" is a little off.
However, assuming you're one of the faceless Northwind interns tasked with "doing the social media" for your clients at Boston2024, then I guess you're already sucking at the teat and figure we're the idiots for questioning the Wonder and Majesty that His Holiness The Most Reverend John Fish would bestow upon the little people.
Also
I happen to own an Olympus. An EPL-5, in fact, and they are fantastic cameras.
Glad that Boston2024 is paying $100k/month for typos and anonymous postings.
#SuffolkTweets
Data on car ownership?
I'd be interested in what percentage of Boston residents own a car, and it'd be especially helpful to have a breakdown by neighborhood.
If you participate...
...in this behavior, you are part of the problem. You do not own the space. Ever. I've said it plenty of times before: I have never done it, and I have always found a space to park. Therefore, space saving is not necessary.
I have never done it, and I
Not everybody lives in your neighborhood.
Fuckin' logic! How does it work?
It doesn't matter...
City parking is city parking. So you ahead an respond like a jerk off if you want. I'm still right and you're still part of the problem.
I can see it now
Olympics 2024 - the Space Saver
Then, Olympics 2024 - the Shaving Cream
Then, Olympics 2024 - the Placemat
And then after that, perhaps we can wrap every car, truck, bus, man, woman, child, dog, and cat within the I-95 (128) ring in Olympics 2024 advertising and/or clothing.
After all, it's merchandising - that's where the real money is made
with apologies to Mel Brooks
If you rent out your house/apartment in 2024
Will this Olympic space saver be valid for reserved parking for your renter?
Here's the thing...
What about the people whose cars were vandalized and property messed with? Especially if, as they claimed, they parked in spaces that had no space saver when they arrived?
Even if those people were part of the random poll, their voice isn't going to count for much. A system that randomly gives 99 out of 100 people a cookie but punches the last one in the face is still shitty.
And shame on people who conveniently ignore the ones getting face-punched just because they got lucky. If you're claiming space savers are fine because this year the system happened to work out for you, and conveniently forgetting the people whose cars got spray-painted and windows got broken because some asshole mistook them for a violator, you're an asshole too.
Civilization is basically one big ongoing effort to prevent random face-punching, and some of my neighbors apparently don't appreciate how much they benefit from that. Don't buy into this moronic lottery. We can do better than that, surely.
Sigh....
So the space saver naysayers are upset and are clearly in dispute with the numbers. The funny thing is that if the numbers went their way then all would be fine in the world.
Space savers are here to stay. Just like Elizabeth Warren.
Not to blow my own horn, but
Not to blow my own horn, but I posted at the beginning of this winter that if the people of Boston didn't want space savers, Menino would have gotten rid of them years ago. He was a little more tuned in to what the "man in the streets" cared about than most of the posters around here.
Because the majority is ALWAYS right!
If people didn't want segregation ...
Oh, wait, they did want segregation and enforced it by electing people who ignored the reality of cities losing lawsuit after lawsuit until a judge had to order busing.
Worked out great, didn't it - this "majority wants it even if it is illegal" thing. Yup.
And, hey, the majority did not favor letting gay people marry and that nasty Supreme Judicial Court went against the majority! No fair!
See also - slavery, poll taxes, universal marriage rights, women's' sufferage, immigrant control laws, etc.
Whoa
Can we get a modified Godwin's Law to apply to people who compare space saving to segregation? Jesus H. Tap-Dancing Christ, dial it down a notch, willya?
First of all, in case you've forgotten, we live in a democracy. So, in most cases, the majority *is* right. The primary exception to this is when the rules set by the majority are determined to be unconstitutional or in violation of somebody's civil rights.
So, by all means, if you feel that your right not to have to move someone's space saver rises to the level of slavery, go right ahead and file a lawsuit to abolish this evil, inhuman tradition.
And please, don't forget to let us know how that works out for you.
We need an irony meter, too
From you?
I think I'll go borrow a rototiller and mark off my own private garden plot and dog run in the local park nearest you. It is public property, so it is all mine, amirite?
Oh, and where do you live? It would be nice to set my kids up in housekeeping in a tinyhouse parked right out front of your house. Public means all mine as long as I say it is mine, right? The majority says so!
Yes, those are perfectly
Yes, those are perfectly reasonable analogies, because both of them represent behavior that's been commonplace for decades, and which is supported by a large majority. :rolleyes:
Time to cut the dose, Swirly.
The irony here
is that you're a Boston transplant in NC where the Tea Party is in full control. So do you agree that schools are overfunded down there and the poors are ruining the state?