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Parking wars get uglier

Spray painted car

Christina Failma reports:

Someone moved parking marker 1st before my unsuspecting friend parked and this happened. Not cool.

Washington Street in Brighton.

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Comments

So it was this guy's own spot and the victim was his friend? Sounds more like random vandalism rather than space saver related

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They're saying someone moved someone else's spot saver at some point, and then the friend parked in the spot, and found that treat on the car.

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Nope. Some unrelated person "owns" the spot and another person moved the space saver so that the driver ended up parking in an "open" spot, unaware of the dibs claimed by the spot "owner." The spot owner is likely the one who vandalized the car. Very unlikely it's random vandalism.

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This has just dragged on.

Really glad I don't own a car so I don't have to deal with this BS... this has gone from from bad to worse.

Can't wait to see what next we'll see. What's next? Someone getting stabbed?

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Is the City criminally liable for damages caused by tacit acceptance of this system?

Food for thought.

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No

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Hope this helps.

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Not how the law works....

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How does the law work? Walsh has said if you clear a spot after a snow emergency, you own that spot for awhile. The law said 48 hours. Neither he nor the law said what happens if you do take a space saver spot, nor does it say what happens if someone illegally saves a spot for more than 48 hours after a snow emergency (or anytime after a non snow emergency storm). So given the lack of clarity and the total lack of enforcement, and the city making these laws knowing how they are self enforced (thuggery), I would say a good lawyer could make the city, as well as the perp, liable.

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And if you can't find the person who trashed your car, you're left with the City.

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But first you start with your insurance and if you don't have info on the offending party, you're stuck out of your deductible until you can try and get $ from the City.

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The law said 48 hours.

Can anyone find the law that says this? I sure can't.

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but this is on the city's website:

http://www.cityofboston.gov/snow/parking/

DON'T
Use space savers more than 48 hours after a snow emergency has been lifted.

While it doesn't explicitly say "you can use space savers until 48 hours after the end of a snow emergency", it can be inferred that is what they are saying. And their actions (not removing space savers) speak quite loudly.

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http://www.cityofboston.gov/snow/parking/ is administrative policy, not law.
Can someone provide a link to the law?

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There us NO LAW. This is an inspectional services issue. The city will essentially ignore space savers until the first trash day after 48 hours of the end of a snow emergency, which is when sanitation is likely to remove space savers. If the trash guys don't, then call inspectional services. If you want to take matters into your own hands and damage results, then file a police report. Most importantly, if urban living is too difficult to adapt to, try somewhere else.

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And me and Bob disagree on the issue.

What we are talking about is a policy, not a law.

Here's the background of the policy that will drive people nuts.

Back in December of 2003, the policy was first promulgated. Here's what the Globe had to say on December 20th-

Starting Monday, the Department of Public Works will pick up "any materials designated as a parking space saver" 48 hours after every winter storm, he said.

After blizzards like this month's deep-drifting northeaster, chairs, barbecue grills, and garbage cans materialize at curbside spaces carved out of snowbanks across the city. But Menino said yesterday that he has decided that residents are unreasonably claiming spots long after storms and that recent episodes of vandalism and parking feuds show that the situation is getting out of hand.

"Streets in Boston belong to the people," Menino said. "I respect the tradition of reserving shoveled spaces, but enough is enough. The streetscape has been littered with household furniture long enough."

The new stance is a sharp departure from the city's attitude toward what a Menino administration official once called the "law of the street," dictating that anyone who digs out a spot after the first snowfall holds claim to it.

However, even at the time, the were questions about whether the policy will be enforced (ie removing space savers, not allowing them)

By the big storm of January 2005, things looked bleak for the idea of getting rid of the savers. From the Globe, Jan 25, 2005-

"The 48-hour rule is not the mayor's first priority right now," said Menino's spokesman, Seth Gitell. "Removing the 26 inches of snow is."

So, that's a bit of the backstory. No law. Policy and tradition. Agree or disagree, but there is no law.

Little EDIT- in looking further, Menino did crack down, on the 3rd of February.

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Menino is right

After blizzards like this month's deep-drifting northeaster, chairs, barbecue grills, and garbage cans materialize at curbside spaces carved out of snowbanks across the city. But Menino said yesterday that he has decided that residents are unreasonably claiming spots long after storms and that recent episodes of vandalism and parking feuds show that the situation is getting out of hand.
"Streets in Boston belong to the people," Menino said. "I respect the tradition of reserving shoveled spaces, but enough is enough. The streetscape has been littered with household furniture long enough."

Mahty should take a play out of Tom's playbook. I 100% agree.. it even happens near my house. Tired of seeing people hog spaces for weeks on end, and getting NASTY about it if someone takes it (Chelsea has the same 48 hour rule but it isn't enforced)

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He had the political intelligence to know that a balance needed to be struck. And when, a few seasons later, the city was "overwhelmed" by 2 feet of snow, he slacked off a bit and didn't do anything for 2 weeks, but then did something since the storm was well over. Of course, if things keep on getting ramped up like this, even Marty will have to invoke the edict of his predecessor.

I am sure that Adam will stick this idea in the back of his head. In June, someone will submit to Citizens' Connect a photo of a saw horse of whatever in front of someone's house, and we will discuss it. Let's just hope there is in fact no snow around by then.

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How does "not enforcing a law" and "mayor makes it clear that the laws won't be enforced" play into liability?

Space saving is actually illegal according to the laws that banned Haystack.

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For instance: Almost no one drives below the highway speed limit, except during a blizzard. Almost none of the fast drivers get tickets, unless they're doing at least 75 or doing something else the cop doesn't like.

The sort of act described in this post is pretty much inevitable, and we're going to see more of it. I agree that the Mayor's officially condoning space savers is very short-sighted.

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As in "Mayor says there is no enforcement"?

I'm wondering what the liability is here, given a the law, given the official pronouncement, and given that municipalities have been sued in the past for not enforcing laws.

If a Mayor of a major city declared that drunk driving or speeding laws would not be enforced over a holiday, what, exactly, would you expect to happen when there was an accident?

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Your hypothetical deals with non-enforcement of criminal statutes. The municipal ordinance in question is not a criminal statute and only carries a $250 civil penalty. Not the same thing. And see my comment below, the ordinance doesn't even ban space savers, it just rests authority in the city solely to set policies on reserving spaces.

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Municipal ordinance 1310

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if someone felt that Marty was personally liable, could they take him to small claims court? They'd lose, but it would put the issue at the forefront in the media.

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The "Haystack ordinance" is being misinterpreted as a law banning these space savers. It does not do that. The ordinance states that only the city and no other entity can manage space reserving. This is the plain language of the ordinance with relevant parts in bold:

No person or entity other than the City of Boston or any of its departments or designees shall have the authority sell, lease, reserve or facilitate the reserving of any street, way, highway, road or parkway, or portion thereof, under the City of Boston's control.

http://www.masslive.com/news/boston/index.ssf/2014/08/boston_city_counci... (ordinance at bottom of article)

That language is clear that only the city can facilitate the reserving of parking spots, as opposed to a private entity or person. And the city is in fact doing said facilitating by having a policy where it grants residents the ability to reserve spots after snow emergencies. What they're doing is consistent with that as I see it. People can argue over whether it's good policy or not, but it's not a situation where they're acting outside the scope of their authority. And the city is well within its discretion to adjust its policies on a situational basis and expand that written-down 48 hour window if it deems it more practical and efficient to focus its limited resources on snow removal or ticketing, etc.

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If the City actually removed the snow. If they just want to push snow around they cannot be held responsible.

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Thanks Marty for condoning the practice!

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This is what happens when you elect a life long townie as Mayor.

NYC elects mayors that are not from NY. We need to do the same.

We should elect someone from a world class city like LA, Montreal, London, NYC..etc.

- The Original SoBo Yuppie

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Ugh

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...until you blew that silly trite childish "world class city" dog-whistle.

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He posted the same trollbait shit in at least 2 other threads so it doesn't matter.

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He's like Markkkk or that Silver Line nutter.

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..but rather speaking the truth.

Boston is long over due for a leader with fresh ideas and new ways of solving problems. Typically, outsiders are the best for that.

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But usually you stick to bashing the local sports teams.

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Please find another city to assimilate your boringness into like and stop desperately trying to turn Boston into a midwestern amalgamation of monoculture.

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... why the Midwest-bashing? - has soboyup ever said he was from the Midwest?

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Sorry, Montreal isn't any more 'world class' than Boston. Great city, fun place to visit, lots of industry - not the same as London, NYC, etc...

Also, most of their mayors are from there or have spent signifiant time there - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mayors_of_Montreal

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By nearly all measures, Toronto would be more of a "world city" than Montreal: millions of people, very diverse population with a strong immigrant culture, flights from other world cities.

And ... Rob Ford.

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It took Montreal 30 years to pay for a stadium with a retractable roof that never worked and that sits empty most of the year now that the Expos are playing as the Nationals in Washington, D.C. The games were a financial disaster for the city.

Given that Montreal went through four mayors in 2012, I don't think that they have an example to follow when it comes to selecting chief executives. The incumbent, Gerald Tremblay, resigned under the cloud of a corruption investigation. His successor, Michael Applebaum, was indicted on corruption charges a few months after being selected as interim mayor by the city council. A replacement was chosen, Laurent Blanchard, who managed to hold onto the position until Denis Coderre won election a few months later.

But let's follow Montreal's example when it comes to snow removal.

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you world class city you.

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Bring in the tourists! They are dying to meet all the friendly Massholes!

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Nobody could have predicted this outcome.

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A lot of people pay good money for similar detailing. I think it looks faster now.

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I doubt anyone will be complaining once they get that bad boy on the road and VTEC kicks in, yo.

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I doubt anyone will be complaining once they get that bad boy on the road and VTEC kicks in, yo.

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Seems like they've all vanished in a hurry.

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Busy at work. #notallspacesavers

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They are out vandalizing cars, threatening their neighbors and making poorly written signs.

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In addition to a couple of other minor issues said this is it (cited this incident and the German papers writing about what infantile children we are).

Pass alternate side of street parking rules - in odd years (like 2015) designated alternate side of the street parking areas need to be free of cars on the odd side for the first 24 hours after a snow emergency ends and then the even side for the 24 hours following that. To be fair - in even years you reverse the order. If that's not reasonable - find something that works so that we can grow up and act like goddamned adults. C'mon people.

Oh - and if the snow is not deep enough to declare a parking emergency - no space savers.

DONE - not rocket science.

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How does this solve the problem though, if the city doesn't plow the empty side?

Somerville already has something similar, though the sides do not switch off. For many side streets now, the side that didn't allow parking during the snow emergency is now 6 ft high snow banks, because they never came back to plow to the curb after the first storm and everyone on that side piled the snow from driveways and sidewalks into the unplowed side of the street. So more than half the parking spots are now gone, and yes there is space-saving going on.

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Success of your plan depends on drivers keeping track of time, of when a snow emergency is declared over, and of whether the year is even or odd. That's asking a lot of them.

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I park my car for $10 in a lot during snow emergencies - and keep an eye out for when they end (the city also sends me a text - hats off for good use of modern technology on that one).

If I don't get my car out - I pay full fare. If you don't move your car - it gets towed - auto-texting and towing are not rocket science.

It's Boston - it snows. sometimes it snows a lot. Obviously people haven't put enough thought into this - until it happens. If nobody fixes this - they should all be voted out. It should be a MAJOR issue in the council elections this fall.

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Not everyone is sagacious as you. I'm sure you've noticed this -- in fact I've seen you pointing it out, right here on this site. How many sub-Stevil ignorami would it take to thoroughly sabotage this parking solution by losing track of the time, or by just not giving a shit?

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It's not that hard.

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I'm sure you're enjoying your first day in Boston, but in fact, it *is* that hard, as decades of evidence indicate.

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Unlike just about anything else.

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While bailing their car out of the tow lot for $150. That's just not as free as $#!+

Are we somehow stupider than all the other cities that do this without all the fanfare of parking savers? If you are so stupid that you can't tell time - you probably shouldn't have a driver's license. How's that for sagacious?

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Would year-round street cleaning be the end of space savers? In the winter, it could just be street plowing, but making everyone eventually move their car would certainly change things.

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... Chicago used to simply move cars when they wanted to clear streets of snow (to the curb). They would clear a street, then move the cars from the next uncleared street onto the newly cleared street. This meant one sometimes had to spend a fair bit of time looking for where your car got moved. ;-)

This applied to ordinary streets -- not ones where parking was banned due to a snow emergency. (Much more civilized than towing to a tow lot -- and being charged a zillion dollars).

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residents of other cities seem to sort it out just fine.

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I don't agree with space savers unless we have a catastrophic amount of snow like this. In my neighborhood many people just leave their cars so only the ones who actually have to drive to work have to leave the space. But there is literally no other parking because any extra space has been filled with snow. If I thought I stood a chance of getting a space when I got home I wouldn't mind not saving it, but with the city just giving up on clearing the streets there is no other choice.

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this is the biggest problem with space saving. The city (or anyone else) can remove all the space savers. An unsuspecting driver finds a spot, parks and gets his tires slashed. The guy that parked had no idea the space was saved and was not trying to be a dick. But i've seen this happen too often.

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That's why it's a cultural attitude problem. The fact that people think vandalism of this sort is a perfectly reasonable reaction to having a parking space they don't own taken (note: it wasn't stolen, never was, never can be,) has got to go. It's just such a difficult thing to track. Outside of equipping your car with cameras, or pointing a camera good enough to make out people's faces out your apartment window, how do you get the message across to people this deranged? I feel like the city can make an official statement and pick up all the space savers as trash and put notes on the doors of all buildings in Boston, but people would still be over-reactive vigilantes they wan to be.

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At this point it's probably best to just not park in a residential area at all unless it's in a space you cleared out yourself. Nobody in their right mind is just driving off and giving up their spot. There are exactly as many spots as there are people who need to drive — there are no extra spots. So stay away and don't drive into someone else's neighborhood until the City makes some room.

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If said baby was being used as a space saver (which I have seen in photos).

I don't know any of the people in this situation, but for some reason I just got really unreasonably angry while reading this post! Almost angry enough to write a letter.

Grrrr...

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I want someone to shove this photo in Marty's face and film his reaction. What do you have to say for your stupid selfish idiot policy now, ya donkey?

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Go right ahead, and post the response on Youtube.

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Walsh is super interested in what someone who doesn't live in Boston has to say about his policies.

Neither one of you actually lives here, right? Even in the metro area?

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That's the best you've got? No, I don't live in Boston now. I lived here for ten years, I visit friends frequently, and I work downtown. And yes, I'm sure Marty the Donkey doesn't give a rat's ass what I think, but guess what? He cares about showing his jackass ears in public, and that's exactly what would happen if someone shoved this in his face at a press conference. So why don't I do that? Because I'm not a member of the press.

By the way, your boy Marty also doesn't give a rat's ass what you think either, even if you are one of his constituents (you are, right?). He'd only give a rat's ass what you thought if you gave six figures to his campaign and fellated him twice a day.

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The six figure donors are not quite the folk who put their cars on the street, so space saving is not a thing for them.

However, I am willing to bet that throughout Dorchester, Mattapan, Hyde Park, and Roslindale there are a lot of Walsh voters who would not think too kindly to an edict that the space someone shoveled out is not theirs.

Oh, and I might be wrong, but I want to say Vaughn was a Connolly voter. Could be wrong, though.

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So now it's an "edict" to say that a private citizen doesn't own part of a public thoroughfare.

Look, we're never going to agree on this. Just let it go.

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Heck, you might be right. I just was commenting on the political aspect of this, which is intertwined with the social aspect.

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I just was commenting on the political aspect of this

Exactly what I posted before the first flake of snow in Marty's administration had fallen. He's got more to lose by prohibiting space savers than by allowing them. Obviously Menino knew this as well or he would have prohibited them. It ain't complicated.

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The guy who's most fired up about the saver system doesn't live in the city? I've yet to see a single UHub post on the topic where you haven't been the most prolific complainer on every comment thread with loads of condescension and snark towards anyone who saves a parking spot...but you don't even live in Boston. Too funny.

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I voted for Barros, then Connolly. What's that? Oh right, no one actually cares. I thought Walsh might be ok and now I'm leaning towards not so much, but I will also give him that no-one was going to come out of this looking very good.

I didn't even think you came to the city to work, but either way, I don't get the vitriol towards people on either side of this issue given that it doesn't impact you at all. If you don't want to live in the city, that's great but don't get mad about how people who do live in the city live their lives.

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I'm only here for the schadenfreude.

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I love how everyone is shoving this shit on the new administration. Oh everything is Marty's fault for not immediately changing Menino's carte blanche. Oh everything is Charlie Baker's fault because he's a RETHUGLIKKKAN who didn't ride the T in the three week's he's been governor of the STATE. Who cares if it's hyperbole, MY FEELS. HE A BAD MAN!!!!!!

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Mayor Walsh continued to let this practice continue when he could have stopped it immediately. Charlie Baker is getting slack about the T because it's a huge problem that doesn't have an easy solution, nor is it something directly under his control. Mayor Walsh just has to say "no more space savers" and that will be that. That's what Mayor Curtatone did in Somerville. The official city policy is "no space savers."

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Three weeks without riding the T, 3 billion dollars in debt he forced the T to take care of. Same thing.

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Yes, it could have gone many places, it could have disappeared, we could have just stopped building the Big Dig....but Charlie has had it out for the T since he was a little boy and he knew this was his chance! Saddle it with debt and then sit back for 20+ years and watch as NOBODY in any future administration or Legislature did anything about it. Then, one day, become Governor and summon all the powers of past ReTHUGlican leaders and bring 4 feet of snow on the city in a month. That should do the trick!

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Somehow, most states manage to administer federal construction contracts without paying the contractors for extreme cost overruns. Even at that time, most federal contracts contained fines for late delivery and no reimbursement for cost overruns, with incentives for early and high quality performance.

Massachusetts let Bechtel get away with overrunning the budget and being late. Baker chose to be novel and different, and came up with a scheme to reward those contractors with state funds and while clearing the books by dumping the debt on the MBTA.

Bechtel should have had to eat that money and pay fines for poor performance - Baker and his cronies chose to use state money to pay them, and screw us by shifting the debt to the transit system.

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And what was that clandestine meeting Coakly had with Bechtel where they agreed on a 50 million dollar figure that basically said "we'll just call it even"?

What was with that, did I miss something? It was odd to me then as it is now.

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People who don't have to drive or have off-street parking have no idea about the level of anxiety the loss of street parking brings to those who need to use their cars.

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After all of the worldwide publicity regarding space savers and the fact that we have the shittiest public transportation system in the world there's no way the IOC will allow the Olympics to come here!

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The IOC loves space savers, except only they can use them and they also demand an entire lane of highways just for themselves.

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Wow, didn't know the citizens of Boston were so immature. You'd think one of the oldest cities in America would have a bit more class. Guess not.

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Boston's not even 400 years old. By your logic, Tripoli and Damascus should be at the height of civilization.

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By publicly stating I was throwing out every single space saver in the neighborhood for the rest of winter.

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so classy

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I'm a pretty live and let live guy in respect to space savers (and most other issues.)

But enough is enough. This nonsense needs to stop. Starting tomorrow I'm going to start submitting reports on every space saver I see on my street and on my walk to the T. And I'm going to keep doing so until they're removed or spring comes. And I'll do so next winter as well.
I urge everyone opposed to this practice to do so as well. I'll happily participate and support any other efforts to stop this BS.

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You just don't care who you piss off, do you?

Crazy rebel.

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and you'll get a ton of

"ticket has be closed"

with no reply.

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And demand to know why they're being closed w/o action. If everyone who opposes savers did religiously the city might start acting on the problem.

I'm not just going to argue with people and make snide comments on the internet.

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You just did by replying. Nice try

And no snark at all.. you obviously have never filed a complaint on CitizensConnect they didn't care about. They auto close tickets all the time.

Stop being a big baby.. grow up and mind your own business. The city will do nothing about it. Why waste their time and yours.

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But you should take your own advice and mind your own business. why do you give a rat's ass what I do with my time.

And this is my business- being able to park on my own street and all that.

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As a tax payer of this state, it is my business. I am concerned with wasting my dollars on useless requests that won't be dealt with. We have bigger issues in this state than whether you get a parking spot or not.

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And quit being a baby about it.

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and quit being a baby about it.

Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhh i can't park
Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I'm going to report all the space savers
Wahhhhhhhhhh I can't get my way

*stomps feet*

PS - You are aware that you can log all the tickets you want that will just be auto closed with no resolution. And you are also aware that you can DEMAND all you want (like the big baby you are), but they don't have to reply

Marty has upheld the stance on space savers, so go ahead waste your time logging space saver complaints. Nothing will get done, and they'll probably block your account for spam. And that will get your panties in a bunch. Have fun and thanks for playing.

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Project your bullshit elsewhere.

I whined about nothing so spare me the "Wahs"

Cars have been vandalized on my street. I'm trying to be proactive.

If you have a better idea than CC I'm glad to hear it. I'm trying to offer solutions, not be part of the problem.

Keep up that good attitude though.

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thanks, I take pride in being freaky. The freakier the better. Vanilla is boring.

You know for someone who..

I'm not just going to argue with people and make snide comments on the internet.

You certainly are arguing alot.

Please save me the "i'm doing the right thing - I'm the martyr" BS. Talk about projecting BS. You're just trying to save yourself because you knew you were whipped. Besides if you really were thinking of others and not being a whiny baby about, you would have said this FIRST, not last. So you were just trying to save your ass. Next time be clear up front and maybe people's attitudes about your post would be different.

And yes you were whining, you may have not said "waahh" but your first post certainly screams "I'm whining"

And really, freaky? I'm not the one who thinks its a wise idea to clog up citizens connect.. after the city has clearly stated they support space savers, and will not enforce any ordinances surrounding it. So your just being a freak who will just waste their time.

As far as a suggestion, you know what? I don't own a car, and I think the whole space saver idea needs to go. Its escalated beyond just saving a space now (as we have seen here). But I think clogging up CC isn't the way to do this. Work with your city council members and get something firm on the books to stop this asinine behavior from the start.

But thanks for playing, now here's Rod with your departing gift!

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Get an F in your underwater basket weaving course this semester did you?

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Whoo, that's gold, Jerry. Gold.

'Fess up: You're actually a professional comedy writer, correct? C'mon Bruce, don't be shy!

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doublepost

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No, I'm not an alcoholic, still talk to my parents, have stable relationships, never had depression am usually in bed at 4 in the morning on a Tuesday.

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How did "Big Bang Theory" ever let you go?

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Because I'm funny, which is a incompatible with writing for that show.

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You're half right.

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What is this I don't even?

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Impale the space junk with a tiki torch and light it. That might get some attention to the problem.

You could even report it to Citizen's Connect "another burning torch space saver". Hmmm.

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Snow emergency in Boston was lifted Wed at 6pm. By the city's guidelines, space savers are acceptable until Fri 6pm.

Also, I don't condone any action against people who "steal spaces". Space savers should not be backed by threat of vandalism or violence. It should just be a matter of respect, if they followed the customs and guidelines: saving a spot AFTER clearing the snow, and removing the space saver once the snow has melted enough to allow for regular parking.

Leave all the notes you like or talk to someone if they take your spot, but vandalism is unacceptable. By the way, you can still be threatened with violence even without spot savers. My dad was threatened with a baseball bat when parking outside my grandfather's house in an unmarked spot, by a neighbor, years ago.

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I dont understand why the city is turning a blind eye or refuse to recognize that this is a potentially violent situation. Is vandalism not considered as an aggressive act? Does actual bodily or physical injury better defines it? Does the city have a threshold before they enforce law and order in crisis situations?

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Yeah baby! One submission to Citizens Connect and they came and removed every saver on the street. Took them a week but they got them all.

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