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T still unsure about service levels on the Red and Orange lines tomorrow

The MBTA says it will run the Green and Blue Lines, but at reduced frequencies tomorrow. There will be trains on the Red and Orange Lines, "but the level of that service will not be determined until later today."

Commuter rail will only make about 70% of normal trips, but there will be no service to Plymouth, TF Green Airport or Wickford Junction.

And buses will continue to replace the Mattapan Line.

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Comments

did anyone ask about how the blue line cars (all new) are holding up?

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Wow - there is no equipment in the way today to inhibit snow removal, so I have to chalk this up to equipment failure.

What the hell is going to happen when we get this (even modified) real cold weather toward the end of the week and early next (not to mention more snow)? Are we going to be looking at a major American city without meaningful public transportation of any kind for days on end?

For a long time I have been wishing that I worked back in town instead of having banished myself to the suburbs. Just about now, I'm pretty thankful for that (I'll be back to hating it around May 1, though).

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If you lived and worked downtown, youd be a brisk walk or easy bike ride away, no need for the T.

Or, income permitting, you could live in Mayor Menino's Innovation District (TM) where a Silver Line bus arrives every 90 seconds, regardless of how the rest of the system is faring. Of course, youd have to live near WTC and work near South Station.

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If you lived and worked downtown, youd be a brisk walk or easy bike ride away, no need for the T.

What a practical suggestion!

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It really is. I moved to an apartment 1 block from work (previous apartment was 14 minute walk).. When I move again, I will plan accordingly. Fact is, the underinvestment in transit in this country means it's simply not reliable. Obviously we know the MBTA has died recently, but lets not forget how sick it was before (a disabled train - or fire - nearly every day).

WMATA is a disaster these days, with sky high fares and 22 minutes off-peak waits. The MTA continues to hike up fares, and SEPTA is, well, theyre SEPTA. I know nothing about Chicago, so I cant comment.

So take the $150-$300 a month in monthly pass costs, and put it towards rent. Also cash in hours of saved commute times, and untold stress avoided. It's life changing.

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There was a time when I made similar close to work moves. Living near work is nice, to be sure.

It doesn't work when you are not single and you have a spouse that works in a different direction and distance, or if you can't find suitable housing that you can afford for your family, etc. Also, once you buy a place you will have more difficult time moving if you are changing jobs.

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Buying is dumb

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Because everyone has your life and your priorities.

Buying is dumb if you move a lot. Buying is dumb if you don't mind that half your salary ends up building someone else's net worth.

You know what? Buying is not dumb if you are facing massive rent increases, housing discrimination (due to kids) and want to build equity. I find it to be very nice to be living in a space that costs less than it did in 1998 (4% interest rate drop on 15-year refi), knowing that it is also a substantial bank account because it is nearly paid off and trebled in value.

Sucks to be stuck paying escalating rents. This place would rent out for at least twice what I pay every month.

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The problem is, the math doesnt work out with that "build equity" unless you get lucky and buy low in a crash and sell high in a bubble. Or, youre one of those people who come in, rebuild the house, and sell at a profit, but thats not home ownership, thats a renovation business.

Start adding in maintenance costs. All of them. The yard. The dead tree. The driveway. The new roof. The HVAC system. The water heater. The toilet. The new appliances. The plumber, the electrician, the pest removal service... Costs that you incur and incur and incur but people fail to properly add up when calculating their IRR. Costs that when you rent, you dont pay.

And then there are the things you cant control. What if your neighborhood goes to shit? There are millions of gorgeous houses, mansions even, around the country that are selling for $50,000 because regardless of how much effort was put into the home, the neighborhood fell apart. Can you predict when and where that will happen?

Youre also stuck. Its 2009. You just got a new job offer, but to take it, youd have to move. But your house value cratered. What do you do? Stuck at the job you dont like because of how much money you sunk into the home? The new government comes in, they mess things up. Property taxes go up, services decline. The school district has various sex scandals. Is that still the perfect home?

Buying a home isnt an investment, it's a gamble. Hopefully, youre lucky enough that it works out for you.

Incidentally, for Valentines Day, Newark is selling dozens of lots for $1,000 for any couple who promises to build within 18 months. Every one of those lots was at one point an investment for someone.

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There is certainly risk, and endless maintenance, true. But there comes a time and phase of many people's lives where owning makes sense.

For many people, that time never comes. That doesn't always mean that owning is a bad deal for everyone. It just means you need to choose wisely.

It also helps to have a good eye for property and neighborhoods and communities, and that is very hard to quantify. I'm three for three so far, and I have no idea what the ingredients are.

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Costs that when you rent, you dont pay.

Of course you pay. It's just not itemized out in your monthly rent. Do you think your landlord provides all these services for you out of the generosity of his heart?

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Landlords tend to act a lot like the T. They defer maintenance. Or if they chose to raise the price to cover the costs, they lose ridership.

If you rent, you win. You get to bail right when these expenses arrive and move to an apartment where those costs havent hit yet. Meanwhile the landlord is left holding the bag.

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If you rent, you win. You get to bail right when these expenses arrive and move to an apartment where those costs havent hit yet.

Translation: You get to live in a shithole, and move to a different shithole right before it gets fixed up.

Meanwhile the landlord is left holding the bag.

Boy, those landlords must be wicked suckers, huh? That must be why nobody wants to own rental property in the city of Boston.

Thanks for straightening me out with all your intelligent, well-thought-out information!

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You been to Allston lately?

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Why, is it not full of shithole apartments anymore?

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Yeah, because moving is such loads of fun, and sooo cheap too!

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Youre also stuck. Its 2009. You just got a new job offer, but to take it, youd have to move. But your house value cratered. What do you do?

Rent it out? I know it's beside your main point, but I have thoughts on those scenarios of ownership vs renting. What are your thoughts on condos? From my calculations, it would sacrifice any flexibility while gaining the advantages of ownership. The big cravat is taking a safe location (high rent place)

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My place is worth more than yours. Probably double. But who cares?

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Heavens, Swirl, stop feeding the troll. Really, stop acting like you're talking to a sane and rational human being -- it's a waste of time.

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You know what's REALLY dumb? Generalizing.

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me wife and I looked into this when the kids up and took off for their adventures....could not come close to a 1BR loft downtown (or cambridge, or somerville|) on a two wage earning income...happy h/o-ers in sunny and interesting and green HydePark (where is that?) where the T pass is $75 and mortgage is less than rent...(now if we could get the trains to run regularly and get the state to shovel the damn bridges, and the ice dams not to leak)....pluses and minuses with every choice, ain't there?

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Putting my $75 pass towards rent isn't going to get me a apartment within walking distance of where I work.

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You're responding to the Don Saklad of the Silver Line.

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is worth gold these days...what, with the roads the way they are...?

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Every 90 seconds? The weird thing about the South Statin based Silver Line is how often these buses still bunch up. Wait at South Station on a summer day and 5 to 10 minutes often go by and then suddenly two or three buses come out. Or wait at WTC or the Courthouse in the direction of South Station and A) pray the bus is not so packed that you and the 30 other people who have waited 10 minutes can not fit on it.

One truism about the Sliver Line is that it does not offer the T a silver lining where good service is concerned.

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I'm married with 4 young school age children and work in Back Bay. Please direct me to an affordable 3 or 4 (dare I say 5) bedroom "a brisk walk" from the pru. Oh, and affordable day care for our toddler would be good since we both work. Thanks.

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I can't fix your poor decissions

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Those 4 kids will be helping you enjoy your retirement.

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...can fix your poor spelling.
(sorry, couldn't resist.)

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As much as I love walking a few miles through the snow to work, I feel like I shouldn't be paying 75$/month just to enjoy the great outdoors during all of these weather phenomenons.

*disclaimer: If I do get a refund, I'd probably just spend it on a lift ticket.

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The orange line uses the exact (well, almost exact, no need for the overhead power thing) cars as the blue line. In fact many decades ago, blue and orange line cars were bought at the same time.

That makes a whole lot of sense. Usually, when placing an order, you buy as many as possible. You get a bulk discount. It's much easier to say "give me 100 more of the same thing" when the factory line is rolling, then coming back later with a new order requiring the whole process to start from scratch.

In the very recent past, the T ordered brand new blue line cars.

Even though the orange line cars were just as old as the blue ones, and had no backups on hand, the decision was made not to combine the orders.

I assume the MBTA management knew damn well that not doing so was a huge mistake, but were constricted by funds on hand.

Mr. Governor, could you remind us why the MBTA did not have the cash on hand to place this order at that time, thus saving the taxpayer millions in future costs and avoiding the complete collapse we're seeing with the equipment today?

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The orange line uses the exact (well, almost exact, no need for the overhead power thing) cars as the blue line. In fact many decades ago, blue and orange line cars were bought at the same time.

I'm sure you meant this in a different way, but just so someone else doesn't get confused...

They replaced the Blue Line cars in 2007 with new Siemens "700 series" cars.

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Yes, it's true that the current Orange Line trains and the previous Blue Line trains were both manufactured by Hawker Siddeley of Thunder Bay, Ontario. In some ways they were identical, but in other ways, quite different.

Because they need to go around the loop tunnel at Bowdoin Station, the Blue Line cars are much shorter than those on the Orange Line. If you notice, the Orange Line cars have three sets of door on each side, while the Blue Line cars have only two. The Blue Line also has a dual-mode power system, where the trains switch from third-rail to overhead catenary lines. On the roof of the current Orange Line trains, there are vestigial components that could have supported this feature, but it was never implemented.

Both the Orange Line and the Blue Line had trains that were worn out and needed replacement, but at the time, the Blue Line cars were rustier. More importantly, the Blue Line capacity was being expanded; from four cars per train, to six cars per train. Some stations were rebuilt with longer platforms (alas, with tragic results at State Street Station).

Although Orange Line trains couldn't work on the Blue Line, the old Blue Line trains could have been reconditioned and used on the Orange Line. It was decided however, that this would be too much trouble, since "new Orange Line trains will be ordered soon".

So, there was a plausible reason to order new Blue Line trains first, but new Orange Line trains should have been ordered on the very next day.

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Sure, the T didn't have the cash because real Americans drive, who gives a crap about people who take the T? As Christie said when he turned down money for the rail tunnel, I'm not going to spend money on public transportation that could be spent on highways. I havent even spoken to the manager of the T in weeks, who gives a crap about them?

Mr. Governor, could you remind us why the MBTA did not have the cash on hand to place this order at that time, thus saving the taxpayer millions in future costs and avoiding the complete collapse we're seeing with the equipment today?

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Wikipedia says:

The Blue Line cars are also narrower and shorter than otherwise similar ones running on the Orange Line, due to the stations and tunnels on the former line having been originally designed to accommodate streetcars.

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They're not exact. In fact, they're not close at all. Orange line cars are longer. They have six doors, blue line has four. Blue line also switches from third rail to overheard. Orange line is third rail only. Orange line is orange. Blue line is blue.

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Expansion of the Blue Line to operate six-car trains, which was one of the original Big Dig mitigation items from 1990. Initially, the plan was to place a small order of about 24 cars to augment the 70-car fleet built in 1978-80 (the same order that also produced 120 Orange Line cars in 1979-81). Around 1994, it was decided it would be better to order a complete replacement fleet for the Blue Line of 94 cars, as it was felt the cost per car of a small order of 24 cars would result in very high bid prices. It was at that time that the fates of the Blue and Orange Line fleets diverged. The Blue Line cars, although a short version of the Orange Line cars, also suffered from more corrosion issues at the time (1994), as the mounts for the roof top power collection devices (pantographs) resulted in holes, which allowed water leaks and corrosion problems. The Orange Line cars would eventually suffer the same problems years later, it was accelerated on the Blue Line cars.

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The T is holding passengers who rely on public transportation to get to work, school, doctor's appointments, etc. hostage and it's despicable.

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I'm glad the MBTA found the money to build that brand new station at Assembly Row though. And it'll be great when the Green Line extension is built just so trains won't run in bad weather. Seems like there's plenty of cash to spend on everything but maintaining or updating the system they already have.

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The T has lots of ongoing projects right now. Maybe everything in the "planning" and "design" stages on that lengthy list should be deferred and/or cancelled until the maintenance issues are dealt with.

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It seems to me the T also wastes money with unnecessarily overbuilt stations that wind up, down and around like mazes and lack the functionality to simply get riders in and out as efficiently as possible. Have you seen the monstrosity they're putting up in Government Center? It's miles high. Does it really need to be that big?

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Assembly Row was paid for by the developers (just like the station in Allston over by New Balance.)

The Green Line Extension is being paid for by the state.

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I looked at the the red line tracks thru savin hill before sunset and they are covered in snow. Despite being closed to passengers, the line normally runs to keep the tracks clear. They have not been running and there is just too much buildup. I predict failure tomorrow.

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...I can live with the shut-downs and the delays if I have the info to make other arrangements: Fairmount/Indigo, my ride of choice/neccessity gets canceled at rate of about 80% for the past few weeks. My gripe is that neither the T or the Keolis folks will give you the straight dope....at 6pm at so station the other night I looked the "information desk guy" right in the eye and asked him if the 645p would be canceled (like every southbound train before it that day)...he said he had new info that it would be running...it was canceled at 650p. After standing around for 50 minutes I stood at a T platform in 7 degree weather for a hour while the sign said next train to Forest Hills in 6 minutes (it said this for an hour)...

I have been really impressed with people's patience and forbearance during this time. In general, people have acted with grace and humor while freezing this butts off. People have acted like adults. I would challenge the T and the Keolis' folks to aspire to the same graciousness and candor by letting us know the real news so we can make other plans to get to work, or to get home. Too much to ask?

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The guy can't and won't get fired. Why should he have to be nice to you and tell you the truth? If he'd rather be a cynical prick, he'll do it and get away with it.

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...the same dude told me wife that the reason Fairmount/Indigo gets canceled so much is that the community (read: Dorchester/Roxbury/Mattapan) has failed to build ridership...she then hung the circular argument right around his neck: how do you build ridership if your can't commit to a reliable schedule?

well done miss molly.

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WGBH is airing an interesting panel discussion where a Conservation Law Foundation (CLF) representative is trying to deny responsibility for creating nearly HALF the debt that the MBTA now carries due to their legal actions to stretch the MBTA too thin.

Yes, its a true mystery why Governor Baker would ever appoint one of them as his Secretary of Transportation. My theory is that Baker wanted to put someone from CLF who produced the financial mess at the MBTA, now owns it!

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You are blaming them for bringing a suit that they won? Doesn't that mean the law was on their side and the law is to blame? The real problem is with the folks who were banking on the law not being enforced, yes?

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There are many friendly lawsuits involving the EPA, where the EPA doesn't have the political will or power to make a decree or decision, so they get someone outside to sue for what they would want to do, and then courts enforce the change. In this case, public transit advocates couldn't get transportation funding for MBTA projects so they trumped up pollution claims with the EPA to force the added transportation.

So, the lesson for you is that not all lawsuits are adversarial and lawyers are sneaky.

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And that transportation funding to capital projects lays with the state. The debt, even assuming agreement that it is MBTA construction debt and not Big Dig (defined in the highway sense). The state built it with understanding they will handle the capital construction part of the MBTA while the MBTA handle operations costs. Not build it and then decide the debt should now be moved on to the MBTA books and thus forcing the operation budget to deal with capital side.

Technically, it was an attempt to pull of a "win-win" where the state get to put off debts from its books while bringing no harm to the MBTA because the dedicated sales tax with theoretically money on top. A pretty win-win action if to worked out and not bad of a move if you're going to break from the original plan. Except the sale tax never brought the amount expected. And it's up to the state to fix this.

So again, your pushing CLF as the group to blame means nothing. The original plan is the state to handle the capital and it was the state's who made the maneuver when they deviated from that. This leaves the state to fix it.

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Your first two paragraphs are reasonably accurate. It describes MBTA debt existing when the deal was made. CLF is responsible for a billion or so more debt on top of that existing debt due to their lawsuit. That is the straw breaking the camel's back - debt that should have instead been used for the maintenance backlog. New blue line cars wasn't so bad of a purchase, but other things like southern rail and the GLX have weak justification compared to maintenance.

Not the state's job to fix unrealized optimistic economic growth projections. Projections are a farce, as CLF demonstrated with pollution claims that didn't happen. If a company stock is doing well and I buy some, but it does not continue to grow in value, the stock broker is not obligated to "fix it".

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Since the state were the one who made the maneuver to move the debt with the "forward funding" plan, since it failed, now it's up to the state to go back to the drawing board. Regardless where the debt came from, it is not in the interest of anyone for the MBTA to be paying off capital spending rather than handling operations.

Your analogy of the stock buyer is flawed. As to my understanding, it was not some kind of exchange where MBTA bought debt for revenue, they was assign debt with a revenue.

This is more like a father bought his son a car. The son expected is to handle insurance, gas, and maintenance. But it turns out the father move the debt of buying the car to his son's name. Now the son is strained making car payments at cost of the crappier insurance, skimming gas, and deferring maintenance.

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MarkK and the Case of the CLF Lawsuit on the Big Dig. That unending conversation where light never does dawn on Marblehead and you're left feeling like Schroeder....

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