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Comments
The architectural style is
The architectural style is not fitting with the rest of the area.
Oh the horrah!
Old Sturbridge Village is an hour west on the Pike if you want to hang out in a museum.
This design takes hints from the architecture along the Greenway across from the tunnel entrance and of the new hotel at Haymarket.
God forbid we try something that is new in this town with design. Get going Koolhaas if you have a better design.
By the way, people are saying that it doesn't fit in with the "historic design" of the North End. When did 1910's cold water flat apartments, which if you look up is the dominant design in the North End, become "historic"?
It is one of the oldest
It is one of the oldest neighborhoods in the country, so it's good to try to make it look somewhat like the rest of the buildings neighborhood even if is only on the boundary.
This is not next to those hotels, it is directly adjacent to the neighborhood.
The buildings that are there now are very unique and not found in almost any other location in the country, as so many tourists attest to when the visit and talk about it.
You can always try to argue that no architecture is historic compared to what was built before, if you really don't find any significance in the architecture of one of the oldest neighborhoods. Some people advocate for making a building next to one of the oldest neighborhoods look at little more like the rest of the surroundings it's next to.
It is one of the oldest
If we followed that rule, we'd all be living in our own Paul Revere houses, which although probably cool, is not at all practical.
Except that's not even
Except that's not even remotely the situation, and there's only a few neighborhoods like the North End left.
there's only a few
This building isn't replacing a historic structure. It's replacing another modern construction building. How can you make the argument that this is a threat to classic structures in the North End?
"This building isn't
"This building isn't replacing a historic structure."
That wasn't the argument, it's saying it can look a little more like the neighborhood it's next to.
I agree that the design of
I agree that the design of the building should complement the historical nature of the North End. Let's preserve what makes Boston unique and not let it turn into cookie-cutter Everywhere, USA. It blows my mind that there are so many people foaming at the mouth in defense of building bland boxes in the city.
When AG runs a 'guess the location/date'
and it's the old buildings from a hundred years ago, am I the only one that is shocked at the run down look and sheer poverty of whole blocks of buildings?
Face it, fire, disease, lack of basic maintenance took their toll on old buildings.
Newer ones are up to basic sanitary codes and safer in many ways. Ya, make it look old, but that's about it. You want to side it in grey split siding? Broken windows? That's what you get when you see the historical pictures.
Yes, It's Such A Lovely Example Of Historic Architecture
Google Maps — Street View
There's clearly some very
There's clearly some very nice buildings historic right behind it, so it would be good for the new building to not be too much out of character.
How dare they!
How could they mess with that? I'm pretty sure Paul Revere used to use that Citizens ATM on a regular basis.
There's a reasonable
There's a reasonable alternative to building extremely modern boring buildings and keeping something exactly the same as it was before, and that is the point of the debate, putting aside your sarcastic post.
The post was not talking
The post was not talking about the building itself, that's a misrepresentation of the post.
Look at the older historic buildings right behind it. It can be designed to better integrate without the surrounding environment.
You Claimed The Buildings Being Replaced Are Very Unique—How So?
It did not say "the buildings
It did not say "the buildings being replaced". That is not found in the original comment. It was talking about the area in general. The new buildings can better match the buildings that are already there.
But, The Buildings That Are Already There Are To Be Replaced
I don't think you understand what the proposal is about.
There's plenty of other
There's plenty of other locations to try for more interesting architecture.
They are historic because they aren't really making them anymore and there aren't many other neighborhoods that still have that very interesting architecture.
Unique neighborhoods deserve some preservation
"of the new hotel at Haymarket. "
As if the city should be trying to emulate hotel entrances rather unique old historic neighborhoods.
There's plenty of other cities that replace anything old with something new and interchangeable.
Don'tcha know?
It is supposed to look like an elevated highway.
It can look more like the
It can look more like the buildings in one of the oldest and most unique neighborhoods that it's next to rather than a boring contemporary building that most other cities have.
With all due respect, just
With all due respect, just because you aren't a fan of architecture and history, don't knock the rest of us who give a damn. There are many of us who have interests outside of Facebook and Wal-Mart.
Haha
With all due respect, what does Facebook have to do with architecture and history?
"God forbid we try something
"God forbid we try something that is new in this town with design"
That thought brought us brutalist architecture and city hall back in the 60s.
And it got us iconic pictures like this one
I know everyone says City Hall is ugly as sin, but I really don't mind it.
I blame Carl Sagan.
So, we know who to blame when the aliens come to kill us and eat us.
It's a transitional zone
It's at the boundary of the Greenway and the North End. It can fit into either or both places.
To be historically correct, you'd have to fill in the North End Greenway parks entirely with buildings. Do the North Enders really want that?
The architecture of these
The architecture of these buildings look similar to the building that once housed the HMV record store on JFK near Harvard Square in Cambridge.
Cross street businesses done very well in the past Martignetti's liquor store, Pace, Maria's bakery, I can remember in the 1970s and 1980s store front's along cross street use to be packed with people , cars would be doubled parked, I guess it's the demographical change in that area, now it seems new businesses come in then pull out that area does not appeal to much of the people who walk by there. I truly do not think placing new modern buildings at that cross street location won't change a thing. People are more drawn to Hanover and Salem streets. My opinion...
Really?
Are you talking One Brattle Square? Which looks nothing like the proposed steel and glass jewel box. One Brattle Square is brick and faux historic-esque.
No one is saying it has to be
No one is saying it has to be historically correct, however it can at least look more like the rest of the buildings currently there.
The buidling it's replacing was renovated less than 10yrs ago
Not exactly tearing down historic architecture
It's right next to some very
It's right next to some very historic architecture.
Check out Kenmore Square
This is exactly the thinking, led by Silber, that led to the hideous new hotel in Kenmore. I'd rather have some modern architecture of some variety than a slapdash simulacrum of a brownstone, blown up to hotel size.
If this was in the heart of Hannover or Prince St, that's totally different. Design on the periphery of the neighborhood doesn't change the feel of the interior streets of the North End.
Places like Amsterdam mix modern design with even older, even more historic architecture and the city is better for it.
The building is going to be
The building is going to be only a few or so stories, it can better blend modern and older styles without too contemporary.
Do the North Enders really
What North Enders want, like all Bostonians, is to complain. What the complaint is about or what it contains is totally irrelevant.
There's plenty of other
There's plenty of other cities you can move to if you don't want to live in one that tries to maintain some amount of consideration for it's historic surroundings.
you don't want to live in one
LOL. I never said anything remotely close to that, but thanks for proving my point.
By whining about residents
By whining about residents trying to make a building that is adjacent to one of the oldest neighborhoods in the country look a little more like the rest of the neighborhoods, it's pretty obvious you don't think that there is much significance in maintaining some of the character of these places.
Again, there's many other cities that you might be happier in with a lower cost housing and more modern and boring architecture.
it's pretty obvious you don't
LOL. Not that I care to respond to your ad hominem, but since you asked, I actually live in a historic North End tenement, I've been here for over a decade, and it's a place that I own and hope to die in. So yes, I pretty obviously place a lot of significance on maintaining character of the place . The problem with your argument is that the idea that replacing one non-characteristic building with another non-characteristic building is a threat to the neighborhood is a stretch at best. If you want to make that claim then you're going to have to make a stronger argument than just launching ad hominems against me.
The comments about
The comments about architectural preferences are simply based on your repeated mockings and dismissals of comments about new construction near historic architecture.
Also, the strawmans that you
Also, the strawmans that you post are hardly good points or arguments.
Also Posting Without A User Name Continuously...
Makes you sound like an abutter who may lose something in this deal.
Development in The North End; Beacon Hill's arrogance, Lynnfield / Melrose / Saugus based ownership, and a seething dislike of outsiders that makes South Boston look like the nicest, friendliest place on earth.
Assumptions like that don't
Assumptions like that don't make sense, not even a resident within city limits.
If you would rather argue about other things rather than the development itself that's not related to the issue.
That doesn't mean someone can't care about development of some of the region's most historic areas.
You don't have to live near
You don't have to live near something to care about how it's developed, especially if it's being built in an area that's architectural interesting or anything other reason.
LOL
LOL. Yeah, there are definitely some straw men being posted in here, anon (not verified).
And transplants like to
And transplants like to complain about the high cost of housing and everything else while it is they who moved here for better opportunities.
Nice try
Plenty of locals complain about the high cost of housing.
Sure, just about everyone
Sure, just about everyone does, but the the locals already lived here, and the recent transplants moved here as a choice, and so it's easier for them to leave as they have no ties to the area.
Parochialism
You're making me hope that an Olive Garden moves into the new building.
That would be more authentic
than some of the restaurants in the North End.
<ducks>
That's not really a bold
That's not really a bold statement, even while arguing that the new building could look more like the historic surroundings.
Yes, the neighborhood is gentrified.
The point is about the architecture itself which can provide benefits regardless of what tenant goes in there.
Transplants usually make the
Transplants usually make the choice to move to region despite the high cost of housing or anything else, when there's plenty of other places. Someone who didn't live in the region from the start has less reason to stay.
They got the design building
They got the design building concept right from 44 Brattle street Cambridge Mass
Disagree
The glass + concrete brutalist building in Cambridge is nothing like the steel and glass box shown in the images in the link posted.
If anything, it takes hints from the architecture of the mid-1940's and 1950's with the skinny steel/exposed structure with loads of glass - showing off the technology of the day. Honestly, my first thought was van der Rohe, but the proposed is so watered down and derivative that it cannot reach the highs of Mies.
Do I think it can be taller? Sure! But there may be reasons for not going higher that we haven't been let in on. Are there detail decisions that I think should be massaged more to take the design a step or 3 further? Sure! I think the idea of this building, as proposed is lovely - it's like the light that will draw the moths to the flame, tourists being the moths - now the flame, the rest of the North End, needs to maintain said flame and draw the tourists further into the neighborhood. Work together, people!
As to the comments that it's "too bright", well, it is a drawing. Reality can be worked to bring that brightness down a notch, or give it a different temperature or even LED color. Now THAT will be something to argue about. ;-)
Context
It's hard to see on the web, but this really seems to be missing a lot of context. I wonder who the architect is?
Why is it only two stories high? That seems really odd--the North End is typically 3-5 Stories (on the opposite side of Hannover the end building is 6.Two seems really wrong (and the super high floor to floors seem even weirder--three would be much better, a high first floor and two floors above.
After rereading the article the whole project is nutty--way under zoning really odd given what is proposed elsewhere in the city. Someone is really missing a great opportunity.
And it is perfectly possible to build a new gateway building, entrance to the North End that is contemporary while picking up architectural cues from the surrounding buildings. Introducing a totally new style of architecture can certainly work and can add liveliness to a street. But, because of the really unusual condition here, with the leftovers of the overpass, the wide plaza and the key location at the entrance to a neighborhood it seems to deserve something taller and more interesting rather than just a few bays of the Haymarket Hotel relocated across the Greenway,
style
I actually quite like the style! but as others have said, it's too small. Lets put three floors of housing above it!
Maybe
I think they chose to align the roof with the nearby / next door Goody Glover building, thus the 2 floors.
2 floors in the heart of the city
Is crazy, it should be at least 4-5 stories.
Is it above a Big Dig tunnel?
and if so, is that part of the tunnel designed to support a 5-story building?
^possibly
Beyond this, there are so many reasons for design decisions that we never hear about because they either stay within the architect's office, the developer's office, or as a conversation/presentation between the architect and developer/money holder.
DOB posted a great pic
of the Salem St. end of the property a couple weeks ago.
Wondering if that plaza out front, which I think is a right of way from when the street was widened a long time ago, could get some more greenery or other street-level development. It's such an empty space right next to the bigger open space of the Greenway. That whole stretch of Cross Street could use some structure that will invite people into the off the Greenway into the North End. The way it is now makes it appear like a home that has too much of a setback from the street, so it's uninviting.
Lose the brick street!
The use of the wide sidewalk at the entrance of the North End for parking is just nuts. I'm sure it came about as some sort of neighborhood compromise, but how much better would that area be if it was loading 6-10am and then Cinzano umbrellas for lunch, afternoon, dinner, and drinks?
Deliveries?
Maybe the inner secondary 'street' is for deliveries?
I don't think
The north end is having much of an issue bringing people into the neighborhood from the Greenway. The streets are almost always clogged w/tourists.
It's not awful
But it could be done to fit in better with the neighborhood. I don't think you have to re-create the existing buildings that are there, but something that's more in the spirit of the North End would be better.