Hey, there! Log in / Register
Speaking of Boston TV signals...
By cybah on Tue, 12/20/2016 - 2:19am
It works!
Last week, NBC Boston said they planned on increasing the coverage for WBTS in Metro Boston by leasing temporary signal space in the form of a digital sub channel from WMFP at the “FM-128” broadcasting site in Needham. NBC Boston said this new digital sub channel should appear on channel 60.5 on December 20th.
Well, shortly after midnight, I re-scanned the channels on my TV and I now get 60.5! Prior to this, I would just barely get WBTS on channel 8.1. Channel 8.1 was pretty unwatchable and often would not come in at all if the weather wasn’t just right.
The signal on 60.5 is very good, at least for me. However, since I already receive WMFP’s stations on 62.x without much issue, I should have no problems receiving the new digital sub channel also.
For you geeks, 60.5 has a signal-to-noise ratio of 27.09db, signal power of 58, and according to my TV, a ~80% signal strength peak verses WHDH 7.1 which has a signal-to-noise ratio of 25.39db, signal power of 58, and according to my TV, a ~74% signal strength peak.
If you don’t speak geek, that basically means WBTS’s new 60.5 comes in slightly better than WHDH’s 7.1. Of course, this is for me in Chelsea, so your mileage will vary depending on your location and antenna type.
But yay, it seems like NBC Boston has fixed its signal problems finally. It looks like many of us won’t lose NBC come January 1, 2017 after all.
Editor's Note: My picture says channel 10, which is where the station is found on the many cable systems (mostly Comcast). It's confusing, and I apologize, but I wanted to show that NBC Boston is now being broadcast on channel 60.5 (as seen by my TV's display in the upper left hand corner of the photo). To see what channel NBC Boston is broadcast on near you, click here.
Topics:
Ad:
Support Universal Hub
Help keep Universal Hub going. If you like what we're up to and want to help out, please consider a (completely non-deductible) contribution.
Comments
Channel 10?
I thought it was either 8 or 60.x, where x depends on where you live.
That's confusing
Sorry about that. I took the picture during a promo to show it was NBC. Channel 10 is the channel it will appear on 12/30 on Comcast Cable Systems. (or 810 if you're watching the HD station) And I'm sure since NBC is a Comcast property, they want to brand that way. (although their main brand being "NBC Boston")
This is going to be confusing for so many people.
NBC does say in the linked article they plan on buying a full power station in the first quarter of 2017 and I guess they would try to unify on one channel at least (and dump all these digital subs). Who knows if it will PSIP'd to channel 10... or 8.1 or another channel.
My point of this article is more to show that now that the City of Boston now can get a strong clear signal of NBC Boston, since most of people could not get WBTS's signal. WBTS's *real* transmitter is a low-power transmitter, which is broadcasting on channel 46 (but PSIP'd to 8.1) from a tower in Needham.
And of course, if you're in NH, (and extreme northern MA if your lucky), you get WBTS on WNEU's digital subs as channel 60.2 from a tower near Bedford/Manchester/Merrimack, NH.
They only added the new leased a digital sub from WMFP because people (and Ed Markey) complained that WNEU's and WBTS's signals were not enough to provide coverage.
Oy this just makes my head hurt.. so many channels. I feel sorry for the elderly who only have over the air TV. And then of course NBC Boston may change again once they buy a full power station in the next few months.
PS - it's not that uncommon for stations now to brand with their cable station rather than their OTA assignment. Many stations in rural areas do this.
Number me among the confused
Cybah,
Thank you for all this information. I've been trying to get a handle on it but find it all so confusing. And I'm not elderly yet. Do you know what's happening with NECN? I've poked around but haven't been able to figure it out. Is it being consumed into NBC Boston? The NBC Boston news staff includes NECN staff like Matt Noyes and Latoya Edwards, etc, so I can't figure out what's going on. Any enlightenment would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Pretty sure nothing
I think I remember seeing Matt Noyes tweet that NECN was staying exactly where it is, as a separate channel from NBC Boston.
Thanks, KSquared. In that
Thanks, KSquared. In that case, maybe they are shifting most (all?) of the NECN staff to NBC Boston and hiring new people for NECN. That would be a shame. Aside from the infomercials, I like NECN as it is.
It is confusing
I was writing this about 2am and my eyes began to cross. It really is confusing.. and I'm not elderly yet either, so don't feel bad.
As far as NECN.. it's not going anywhere. If you're on Comcast, I believe the high def version of NECN has already moved from channel 810 to channel 840.(I don't have Comcast TV anymore so I can't verify this as a fact)
However the standard def version of NECN (Comcast Ch 10) won't move to a new location until Dec 30, which is when Comcast plans on making channel 10, NBC Boston's standard def channel. (NECN's new SD home has not been announced yet)
NECN really isn't going anywhere, it'll still exist as it does today. NECN, like NBC is owned by Comcast, so when NBC decided they wanted launch NBC Boston, they planned on sharing the same on air staff as NECN. NBC Boston even will use the same broadcast studio in Newton as NECN. (This is similar to KNTV/CNBC setup in San Francisco)
I think NECN and NBC Boston will be one in the same. Either they will be simulcast on both stations with some different graphics to differentiate the two, depending on which one you're watching. And NECN will have certain anchors, but shared reporters/staff/correspondents with NBC Boston, AND NBC Boston will have certain anchors but use same reporters/staff/correspondents with NECN. In short, they are just going to be two separate entities who share resources.
I also feel like NECN will still focus more on a broader New England coverage, as they do today, while NBC Boston will be more Boston-Focused.
Confused yet?
Interesting
Thanks again, Cybah! I'm still well muddled but light begins to dawn. As long as NECN will remain more or less the same with more or less the same people, I will be happy. I really appreciate you going to such lengths to explain it. I've been wondering for a while how it would all shake out and yours is the best explanation I've read.
You're welcome
I don't think NECN will change much for you. Same decent news. I like NECN myself, it's one of the few things I miss about not having cable TV service. It's pretty decent for local TV news.
NECN I think will get better than it is today since now it will have more resources at it's disposal.
And you're welcome. It is confusing. I've been following this since they announced this last year, so I have a grip on what's going on. I'm kinda a broadcast TV buff so it's interesting to me how they plan on mimicking WHDH's coverage area without buying WHDH themselves (Or another high powered station).
And as I've been saying for well over a year.. and I was right about my prediction. Much like KNTV in San Francisco. NBC purchased a small low power station, pumped money into it, share resources with another NBC property (in SF it was CNBC West), and come out with a power house station to replace a current NBC affiliate. (in SF, the former NBC station was KRON-4)
DirecTV
It's also CH10 on satellite. They've been running NECN news and reruns of Dateline (incessantly!)
Dont forget the M*A*S*H
Dont forget the M*A*S*H
Side note, I'm hoping this transition can facilitate NECN on DirecTV. Fox25 has gotten so bad (didn't start that great) since the handover to Cox that it's nigh unwatchable. That leaves me with no local news options in the 7 o'clock hour, unless someone has an idea.
LOL yes
I fell asleep to WBTS last night.. I flicked it on again after writing the post(s), and musta just passed out right after during Access Hollywood Live!... and woke up to NECN news.
I looked at the schedule for WBTS.. which btw.. I find funny that their on air branding is "Countdown NBC Boston" (yes and they say it just like that).
The schedule for WBTS seems to very light these days. Lots of simulcast of NECN's newscasts throught the day. A few NBC-produced talk shows (The Rachael Ray Show, Harry Connick Jr Show), tons of reruns of Dateline, and the occasional rerun of MASH or Fraiser (to fill in those pesky 1/2 hour gaps).
also, old Avengers
With Diana Rigg. Hubba Hubba.
57 channels and nothing on!
57 channels and nothing on!
Where around the web do you watch it?
At what link do you get it online?
As far as I know, no
But keep in mind "NBC Boston" really doesn't launch until Jan 1, 2017.
I actually don't know of any station (NBC or not) in the Boston area, and folks feel free to correct me if I am wrong, that allows you to watch their OTA broadcast unrestricted**.. meaning all shows not just newscasts or special events/emergencies. Of course an unrestricted stream still would have restrictions, such as blackouts for sports games that have restrictions on them, or advertisers who didn't pay for "online stream" ads.
However, I will say that NBC does offer a service called "NBC Select Markets". This service does allow for a full stream of their OTA broadcast. BUT... it is restricted to certain markets like NYC (WNBC), SF (KNTV), and a few other NBC owned and operated stations in select markets. And since WHDH is not owned and operated by NBC (It's owned by Sunbeam Television... hence why NBC started NBC Boston to be an O&O station), it's not avaliable for Boston views.
But but but... since NBC Boston will be a O&O station, so I can't imagine why they wouldn't eventually add WBTS "NBC Boston" to this service. I have a feeling it will eventually come, but probably will not launch until after Jan 1, 2017 since this is when "NBC Boston" goes live.
Note: NBC Select Markets is avaliable on SlingTV, DirectTVNow, and PlayStation Vue, which are pay IPTV services. It's also avaliable as an separate app on Roku as simply "NBC", but a cable tv or satellite subscription is required to use the app, which kind of defeats the point of cutting the cord! (I do not own an Apple TV 3, so I can't speak if they also has the same apps or services)
And... while NBC Boston currently has its own "app"currently, that app is mainly a news, weather, and breaking news app, not a way to actually stream the live OTA signal.
** Edit: Corrected, I see that PlayStation Vue offers WBZ as a channel selection for a local Boston station (and that is all they offer). I also see that DirectTV Now offers both NBC and ABC, and Fox "select markets" but do not offer Boston live TV streams. Click here for an article from CNET on comparing the three's services channel offerings.
Signal
Any reason why the signal strength at 8.1, 8.2 etc changed over the last 10 days or so and why the countdown channel now shows up on 60.5 (after channel 60 appeared and then disappeared with channel 8 going on air)? I got channel 8.1 great when it was introduced.
Hmm
I wonder where you are... I never got any WNEU's stations** (either 60.1 as telemundo, or 60.2 as a simulcast of WBTS NBC Boston). But then again, with my indoor antenna, I don't get any stations that aren't located in Needham (i.e. channels like WBIN 60.1 (ex WNDS), WMUR 9.1, or WENH 11.1 (PBS))
I did get WBTS channel 8.1 when it was launched a month or so ago, but as I said in the article, it really was unwatchable so I didn't pay much attention to it after the initial "oh I get it but the signal sucks".
I did notice that I lost channel 8.1 about a week ago, but I just assumed the weather was wrong (or a plane was landing) so it no longer came in. And the channel was totally removed when I did a rescan this morning.
** Which I find surprising in itself, as Chelsea has a high Spanish speaking population, and you would think WNEU would want a transmitter nearby to catch the Spanish viewership. Much like the original WBTS setup (before the signal was reduced), maybe they will multiplex WNEU's signal as digital subs of WBTS (i.e. 8.2 for Telemundo, 8.3 for Cozi-TV, and 8.4 TeleXitos) once they purchase a new high powered station in the first quarter of 2017
(And I'm absolutely frightened on how much I really do know all about this! Ugh.. #GeekTimes10)
High quality audio fidelity... AM-FM-HD tabletop HD Radio.
What tabletop AM-FM-HD Hybrid Digital HD Radio is available with the high quality audio fidelity of, for example, a Tivoli and with the display mechanism "Artist Experience"?
Rescanned
I rescanned not far from Roslindale Sq. 60-1,2,3 disappeared on the fresh scan and 60-5 came up.
My set can check signal strength and I was pulling a 69% quality. Seems to be running test programs right now but was coming in very strong.
Interesting
That's interesting that 60.1-3 disappeared for you also, and you're further away from WNEU's transmitter than I am. (I bet I can't get the signal for WNEU 60.x because of the Tobin Bridge). They must have lowered the signal strength once 60.5 came alive. Did you ever get WBTS on 8.1 ?
Just an educated guess but it seems that NBC's original idea was to buy WBTS for the call signs and activate its low power transmitter to fulfill its requirements for broadcasting. And then beef up WNEU's signal as its main, more powerful, translator for a simulcast of WBTS on channel 50.2 to provide better coverage to the area. And pretty much be done with it, since WNEU was established and a NBC O&O station (no expensive transmitter to setup).
But then people (and Ed Markey) complained because that both signals were still not very good for Metro Boston, so they leased digital sub space from WMFP to act as a translator & simulcast also to serve our area better. Once that happened, I bet they reduced the power on WNEU since WMFP's new digital sub does a better job serving our area instead. Of course, it doesn't make a hellva alot of sense because by reducing WNEU's signal also reduces the power of NBC-owned Telemundo.
(Of course if someone who is a Spanish speaker and watches Telemundo can verify for me/us that WNEU's signal was very strong long in Boston before NBC Boston was ever thought of, please let us know!)
However, as I said above.. I wonder if this is all in a plan to buy a high powered station to become WBTS, and just multiplex a simulcast of WNEU on 8.2 for Telemundo, 8.3 for Cozi-TV, and on 8.4 for TeleXitos. This would give WNEU great coverage and viewership in this area.
Channel For RCN...
... still under negotiation.
One final thought.
One other thing I was thinking of, is why they decided to use Channel 8. You can't have two channels of the same channel assignment in the same DMA (market), both actual or PSIP channels (and even if its not the same DMA but a small section of the signals may overlap, you still can't)
WMTW is a part of the Portland, Maine DMA. And WTNH in New Haven CT is a part of the Hartford-New Haven, CT DMA. And it's pretty unlikely any viewer in the Boston area could get either of those stations (with the exception of places like Salisbury and Newburyport aka Northern Essex County might be able to get WMTW, but no one in this DMA should be able to get WTNH). (And remember we're talking OTA signals, not cable systems, that's entirely different, but we'll talk about those below)
There really aren't any other free channels, besides 8. The only other one would be channel 3, but it could be believed that WSHM in Springfield and WFSB in Hartford could possibly be received in extreme areas around here (like Worcester). And WSHM is essentially a simulcast of WSFB, except it operates on 3.5, while WSFB runs on 3.1 (this is how they prevent conflicts but maintain the same on-screen identity) And…. less number of viewers would be effected with a conflict by using 8 vs 3 considering transmitter locations in relative to where the DMA's primary viewership are.
But just about every other channel assignment from 2-12 is taken between Boston, Providence, and New Hampshire. (Note: Channel 13 is seldom assigned anymore)
2 is WGBH/PBS, 3 see above, 4 is WBZ/CBS, 5 is WCVB/ABC, 6 is WLNE/ABC, 7 is WHDH/NBC, 9 is WMUR/ABC, 10 is WWDP/Ind*, 11 is WNEH/PBS, 12 is WPRI/CBS
* WWDP broadcasts on VHF channel 10 still, but PSIPs to 46.
And now that I've thought about this some, that the new high powered station they plan on buying probably will be PSIP'd (or even broadcast) on 8.x over any new channel assignment due to there just about every other channel nearby is taken. And of course, NBC wants a low channel assignment, not a high one!
And finally, if you really want to confuse things up., we can talk about the cable channel assignment on Comcast cable TV vs it’s "on air" channel identity.
I don't think WBTS will change its 'on air' channel identity from 10 to 8, since again, it's a Comcast owned station. And I'm willing to believe that since most other stations are 'locked' into channel their analog cable channel assignments via contracts, it was easier to just move NECN (a Comcast owned channel) somewhere else.
NECN throughout most of New England occupies either analog cable channels 6, 10, or 13, depending on where you are, and if a local channel already has that assignment (i.e. WWDP typically occupies analog cable channel 10 around here, so NECN is on analog channel 6 instead).
The digital side is a bit different, since many of these standard def cable channel assignments go back decades, long before digital TV, so it's unlikely for any of them to change. So when Comcast built out its digital side (and added all those 7xx and 8xx channels), it stuck NECN at 810, since the original agreements for the analog cable channel assignments did not apply so Comcast (or AT&T at the time) did what they pleased. This is why WBZ is on 4 and 804 (to be similar), but WWDP, a low power station, which is on analog cable channel 10 but it's HD station is on 818.
I also believe that since Comcast could do as it wanted on the digital side, they decided to do it in the order of "who had an HD feed first". I'm sure WWDP, since it's low powered, lagged behind so it didn't get digital cable channel 810.
It will be interested to see if Comcast moves WWDP's analog cable assignment somewhere else to it up to match NBC Boston's "on air" channel identity. OR if they just swap the analog NECN channel (currently 6) with another channel. (WBTS HD already occupies channel 810, where NECN was).
Anyways I've totally taken over my own article, but there's a lot to talk about with this, and I like to share information so people learn why things change and why things are the way they are. I hope folks are finding this somewhat interesting! It’s just so interesting, yet confusing!
Why is channel 13 never assigned?
Historically there have been many TV stations on 13, the most famous of which is New York City's PBS station, WNET.
Also, isn't channel 1 available in this new virtual-channel world?
Channels 1, 6, 13, & 37
Without getting into an long explanation...
First off, there are exceptions to the rules. And many of those stations who do use 13, were assigned their broadcast channel ID decades ago. It's seldom assigned these days. You'll find more stations on channels 2-12 stations than channel 13 stations.
But generally it's not assigned because the number 13 is undesirable (think "unlucky 13"). (same reason why many high rises do not have a floor 13)
There's a technical reason related back to analog tv.. I'm trying to find a link that describes why (so I can reference it) but not having much luck with finding a good source. But I seem to remember that since it was higher up the dial, the reception was less than desirable. (The wave form I think its wider than say VHF ch 7, which is the low end of that band (Band III) (Same reason why low end analog VHF channels were always sought after more than analog UHF channels).
It's the same deal with analog VHF Channel 6 (Audio can be heard on 87.7FM) and analog UHF Channel 37 (Never assigned due the frequencies being used for Radio Astronomy)
But as far as Channel 1, even if it was assigned with PSIP today, it just seldom is used due to the way the ATSC standard is written, as said below:
So yeah you COULD do it, but good luck getting permission to use it or even implemented. And frankly most broadcasters are interested in 2-12 positions, which are the most coveted on the dial.
NBC BOSTON
I THINK STATION SHOULD BE CALLED NBC 8 BOSTON BECAUSE 8 IS THE FCC NUMBER AND NBC 10 IS WJAR IN PROVIDENCE