Herald pricks anti-vaxxers, eliciting a response

Anti-vaxxers outside the Boston Herald offices

Titanium Cranium shows us the small group of pro-measles anti-vaxxers who showed up in front of the Herald offices today to express their outrage at a Herald editorial accusing their Minnesota kin of putting Somali immigrants at risk by making them forego measles shots on the discredited theory they could cause autism.

No word if the Herald is planning an editorial in favor of fluoridation.

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Wow!

You mean there are people daffier than your average Herald reader?

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My facebook feed is full of them

Don't see anyone defending the actions that has the Somali children in Minnesota catching the measles, but they do think that vaccines are corporate and big government means to destroy innocent children.

Robert De Niro is a favorite of theirs. Anti-vax thing seems to be an infection of its own.

I do my best to ignore them.

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My favorite part

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is the inevitable accusation that vaccines are an insidious scheme by Big Pharma to line their own pockets off of mandatory vaccinations schedules. Because what I want is more Little Pharma. That's what I want to see: Mom 'N' Pop vaccines, made with love in someone's kitchen. When it comes to what I inject into my kids, I don't want no fancypants "rigorously tested peer reviewed research" or "the urgings of thousands upon thousands of doctors" telling ME what to do with MY kids.

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As long

As it's organic, free-range, and BPA free!

And if you could provide comfort goats in the backroom clinic, that'd be super!

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Gluten free would be a good idea

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CDC has found the prevalence of Celiac to be close to 1:140, with enrichment in places where there are concentrations of people whose ethnic origins raise that risk.(read IRISH).

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That's what we need

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Bathtub vaccines. Like bathtub gin during Prohibition. After all, anything homemade is automatically better than store bought.

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I believe....

Bathtub vaccines.

I believe the word you're looking for there is "artisanal." You heard it here first, artisanal vaccines are going to b the next big thing. Handcrafted in drafty workshops by men with impressive beards.

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Robert DeNiro son is vaccine injured- vaccine injury is real

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Robert DeNiro's son is vaccine injured and so is my son. DeNiro has been very outspoken about this. Thousands of families are affected. We so called "anti vaxxers" complied and had our kids vaccinated only to watch them suffer a severe adverse reaction leading to lifelong disability. We are attacked because we speak out about vaccine safety and question the approach the CDC pushes because it is not safe- there is no science to back up the safety iof the CDC schedule. Furthermore the CDC admits that individual immune response varies and there is no way to predict how an individual will react to a pariclar vaccine- so why do they oush a cookie cutter approach? Why are they playin Russian Roulette with our kids health. you people who criticize us are uneducated and have no clue because you haven't walked in our shoes.

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My condolences on your child

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Now, how dare you.

My daughter is alive because she received her shots. Millions of other kids are also alive because they got their shots. I, and possibly you, are alive because we got our polio shots (or drank down the liquid version) and our smallpox shots (and because we did, our children never have to worry about them). Thousands, maybe millions of immunocompromised people are alive because the people around them got their shots against the diseases that would otherwise kill them.

Yes, it is sad that vaccines do have risks. But how dare you call one of the great public-health victories in all history the work of uneducated boobs. Maybe you want to go back to the days when people died horrible, painful deaths from smallpox, or spent their lives in iron lungs because of polio, but I don't.

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furthermore, for those who

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furthermore, for those who are immuno-compromised and cannot receive vaccines, you better be pounding the drums in favor of immunizations for all who can receive them. herd immunity is your only way to avoid polio, etc.

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My son is vaccine injured because I complied!!

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Are you kidding me? How dare you attack me? You apparently missed the part where I said my son was vaccine injured because I COMPLIED and had my son FULLY VACCINATED per the CDC recommended vaccine schedule which I found out after the fact was never rigorously studied for safety.. He had his shots and he suffered serious adverse reaction and now is disabled get it? Why do you think the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program was created? Because both the government and industry knew that vaccines can cause severe adverse reaction leading to permanent disability. Vaccination carries serious risks which are often downplayed. Sorry you can't handle the truth.

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Actually, no.

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The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program was not created "Because both the government and industry knew that vaccines can cause severe adverse reaction leading to permanent disability..." but rather:

"The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program is a no-fault alternative to the traditional legal system for resolving vaccine injury petitions.

It was created in the 1980s, after lawsuits against vaccine companies and health care providers threatened to cause vaccine shortages and reduce U.S. vaccination rates, which could have caused a resurgence of vaccine preventable diseases." (emphasis mine)

ref: https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/

It is of course very sad when a child has an adverse reaction. What is not so sad? That so many more children now may it to adulthood because of these vaccinations.

I'm sorry that your child was injured. But the science just doesn't back you up.

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I'm sorry about your kid, but ...

your cultish conspiracy theories and your hatred (or complete lack of understanding) of science and how vaccination is one of the most scientifically validated medical practices indicates that you should take some community college classes to help you learn a few things and also seek mental health assistance.

Vaccines have been around for decades and the track record is extremely clear and repeated with each vaccination campaign. You are not being rational and your bizarre excursions are not helping or saving anyone. They do nothing for your own child, and they might scare people into making some extremely bad decisions about their own children's health.

You must be too young to remember physically disabled teachers and adults in your community, and when they started mainstreaming the blind and deaf kids who were damaged by measles, I bet you never looked through pictures with your parents only to be told "that's Velma - she died the next summer from polio".

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Longer than decades

Vaccines have been around for decades

Edward Jenner invented smallpox vaccine in the late 1700s if I recall correctly.

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I do wonder...

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...if age is a factor with anti-vaccine beliefs. My whole family had rubella ("German measles") back in the 60s. I have a friend who's about 15 years older than me and she suffers from post-polio syndrome... because she had polio as a kid. I do wonder if younger people who have no first or second hand experience with diseases that are now rare just don't understand that *they're rare now because of vaccines.*

'Course, there's also plenty of willful ignorance going around, too.

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I'm sure this is a big factor

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I can't imagine anyone who has ever seen a baby suffering from whooping cough being willing
to put their own child through that. (I think anti-vaxxers should be tied to a chair and forced to watch
Youtube videos of a baby gasping for breath until they learn the err of their ways.)

Most people under the age of about 70 don't remember polio. Most people under the age of
90 don't remember losing siblings to early death due to now-preventable illnesses. Childhood mortality
has become almost mythical. The anti-vaxxers are in some ways victims of our remarkable success
in preventing these early deaths.

That, and they're also victims of our lagging education system. Com'on people, learn some science!

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No truth detected

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I'm sorry about your child, but its empowering to wake up and see how people are preying on your situation to advance their own agenda much like recent story about Seth Richards.

Your child wasn't harmed by vaccination. Period. End of story.

I know you are desperately searching for a reason why, but you've landed on a convenient excuse from a snake oil industry praying on people who have gotten a pretty raw deal in the lottery of life.

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To be fair

We don't know what harm this person claims her kid suffered - there are rare allergic reactions to vaccine components and odd complications.

These are much much more rare than the extreme complications of the prevented diseases.

Solid huge studies have proven that vaccines do not cause autism.

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Allergic reactions are also preventable

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Every vaccine with a component or exposure to a potential allergen, such as eggs, is advertised as such, and you are explicitly told not to get it if you have that allergy. Every time you get a vaccination, the person administering it checks your allergy status. Is it possible that someone can still have an allergic reaction to a vaccine? Sure, if they have a known allergy and disregard the advice, or if they don't know they have an allergy -- but in the latter case, the vaccine is no more at fault for your reaction than is the restaurant that served you the sunny-side-up eggs you ordered while unaware that you were allergic to them.

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We accept probabilities.

Let's just stipulate for a second (i.e., I'm just making a number up to illustrate the point) hat vaccines severely injure, to the point of permanent disability, 1 out of every one million vaccinated individuals. If you look at the prevalence and severity of the vaccine-preventable diseases in an unvaccinated population, vaccinating everyone is still going to be a huge win. Yes, it sucks to be the 1 in a million who had the severe adverse reaction, but that isn't a reason to oppose vaccines. Net, they prevent orders of magnitude more misery than they cause.

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One question

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How many people do you know who were deaf or blind or both from measles?
Probably not many because of vaccinations.

How many people do you know that have lost infants to measles or whooping cough?
Probably not any, because of vaccinations.

I could go on. I take it you didn't have polio-maimed teachers, either. I did. That's because vaccines were a new thing and every parent could not wait to get them for their kids when I was young.

They knew what the real world without vaccines looked like. You clearly do not.

NOTE: I'm betting that you either do not even have a "vaccine injured" child (100,000: 1 odds on that) or that your kid wasn't really injured by vaccines and you just find it convenient to blame them because some idiots have filled your head with nonsense.

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Before we entertain your ant

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Before we entertain your ant-vax viewpoint we need to know a few things to ensure your drive by commenting is interpreted correctly:

Bike Lanes are good, evil, or parking spaces?
Dunkin or Starbucks?
Who's at fault when a pedestrian is hit by a car?
Do you own a truck and have you driven it on Storrow?
The T is delayed because of underfunding, deferred maintenance, blizzards, or heat waves?
If someone drives a car are they not wanted in Boston, responsible for ruining the environment, or responsible for the lack of a living wage?

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"the CDC admits that individual immune response varies"

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the CDC admits that individual immune response varies

Indeed they do, but the "individual immune response" is how much immunity an individual develops in response to a vaccine (in this case). It isn't the "reactions" that are attributed to vaccines by those who hold your beliefs. IOW, the CDC's position is that different individuals will get different degrees of benefit from a vaccine, but this has nothing to do with so-called "vaccine reactions".

you people who criticize us are uneducated and have no clue because you haven't walked in our shoes.

I sympathize with your son's medical problems, but calling other people "uneducated" because they aren't you is nonsense. A degree in microbiology, experience as a clinician -- these are certainly educational experiences that would give someone plenty of clues. Just because someone doesn't come to the same conclusions as you, or just because someone wants to see evidence of causation rather than simple correlation before they credit your beliefs, does not mean that they "have no clue".

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CDC & FDA do not investigate individual cases of vaccine injury

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CDC and FDA have a reporting system called VAERS but they do not investigate individual reports of vaccine injury so therefore they do not have a handle on the true number. Most of the VAERS reports they write off as anecdotal. There is no serious follow up even in documented (settled) cases. Parents petition for compensation but only about 25% of the cases reach settlement. So limited settlements and lack.of followup is part of the reason they call vaccine injury "rare" but the reality is they don't actually investigate.

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You know what that means?

That means that these data OVERSTATE the risk of vaccine injury.

And before you start your "you're not informed" shtick, I'd like to know what your credentials are, since I have a Sc.D. in Epidemiology.

You might understand this better if you took a class or two in biostatistics. Such classes are offered through Coursera or at community colleges. Your beliefs are not science and not factual.

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Robert de Niro's son is autistic

Robert de Niro's son is not "vaccine injured." Probably, yours is not either.

The signs of autism sometimes present around the time that children are vaccinated. That does not mean autism is caused by vaccination, any more than pirates cause global warming.

One time, a long time ago, a fraud who has consequently lost his license to practice, or to call himself Doctor, faked a study that said a causation existed. Some credulous and desperate people got hold of that fraud, despite its debunking, and fixed on it.

We all feel for people who suffer disease or injury. We feel doubly sad for people who get suckered by charlatans with fraudulent explanations for their suffering.

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There's a theory that the

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There's a theory that the legend of "changelings," toddlers kidnapped by fairies and replaced with identical-looking frauds who weren't quite right, came from autistic children who went from developing at a normal rate to showing symptoms of autism seemingly overnight.

If only we could convince the anti-vaxxers that it was fairies and not vaccines they should be fighting, then maybe we could get herd immunity going again.

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Autism and the need to find

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Autism and the need to find someone to blame is the root cause of all of this. (Note: I'm not blaming anyone.)

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Autism and the need to find

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Autism and the need to find someone to blame is the root cause of all of this. (Note: I'm not blaming anyone.)

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For the record symptoms of autism do not appear around the time

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that vaccines are normally given. Even that would suggest correlation, if not causation. A 6 month, 12 month old child shows signs, but everyone explains it away and hopes for the best. It's only when they get a little older and do not progress that the diagnosis is made. I know that this is a difficult topic but I don't see why we can't talk plainly about it, and instead write 10,000 words about "vaccine damage".

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For arguments sake...

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For arguments sake... let's just say that vaccines can cause autism. That that is 100% proven by science and we all agree that it is true.

I would STILL get my kids vaccinated. Why? because it is a risk/reward... my kids are more likely to die or go blind/deaf from the stuff vaccines prevents then they are to become autistic from vaccines. Life is a risk reward and sometimes you get a raw deal, but the chances of your kid having a great healthy life are far better with vaccines then without. It's that simple.

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THANK YOU. As an autistic

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THANK YOU. As an autistic adult, it is so surreal to hear parents say they'd rather have their children dead in the ground than be like me. The autism conversation in this country is nuts.

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I know that calling you a dangerous idiot will do nothing

to change your mind, Sarah White, but it has to be said: you are a dangerous idiot. With your science ignorance and dearth of critical thinking skills, you and people like you are a menace to society.

Go back and repeat high school science until you and your ilk grasp it enough to stop putting other people's kids' lives at risk.

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Boston

They do that in communities served by the MWRA and it's already the best tap water I've ever drunk. Boston has awesome water. Strong teeth is a just a nice bonus.

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It's true but

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Cambridge water is even more delicious. It's the best reason to live there besides bookstores and Bob Slate.

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Really?

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The water that comes out of the tap at work you could cut with a knife. I like home (MWRA) much better.

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Cambridge water?

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MWRA for several months now.

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Told you cyclists are douches

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Told you cyclists are douches! Look at that anti-vaxxer spouting her garbage! Take their bikes! Make them pay taxes!

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Pro-measles?

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I know Adam, you're just trying to be witty, but just a note of journalistic accuracy: making even a joking reference to "pro-measles" anti-vaxxers reminds me of right-wing media calling people "pro-abortion" who are actually, accurately, in support of abortion rights.

I do not have a dog in the vaccination fight, but I'm calling out the inaccuracy, witty though it may be; "pro-measles" and "pro-abortion" are both unfair adjectives.

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Would you prefer

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pro-pertussis? Pro-smallpox? Adam actually let them off pretty easy with the measles thing, it's one of the less lethal epidemics that these jackasses want unleashed on the world.

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How, then, to explain ...

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Measles parties?

You're probably right - the people there would never, ever say they're in favor of measles, but actions speak louder than words and by encouraging people to keep the shots from their kids, they are encouraging the spread of a highly communicable disease that actually kills or permanently disables some of its victims. And because the disease is so easily spread, that means jeopardizing the health and life of children and other people who have no say in the matter, such as infants who have yet to get the shot and people with certain immune disorders.

So, yes, my bias is showing in this case. These people deserve all the shame they can get.

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By their fruits

You will know them.

I call people who oppose contraception pro-abortion. Because that's the change they make in the world.

These folks? Pro-measles.

Ravenous wolves, I'm tellin ya

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So a correct description in your mind would be...

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reminds me of right-wing media calling people "pro-abortion" who are actually, accurately, in support of abortion rights.

So you want Adam to edit so that it reads "anti-vaxxers in support of measles rights?"

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Condemn a man for using a

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Condemn a man for using a term that could, on the outside chance be taken wrong and then use a term that could be seen as being pro dog fighting. Two sides to every coin.

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Oh, but you do!

I do not have a dog in the vaccination fight...

Yes, you do. If you have children, or are related to children, or have relatives or friends who are immune-compromised, then you certainly should care about people advocating for reducing the population's immunity to these diseases. Pretty much all of us have a dog in this fight.

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Mumps at age 41

Due to immune issues, my mother (who had pictures where she had had mumps as a child) got mumps at age 41.

It was absolutely brutal, and I don't think she was really ever the same after.

When I was in graduate school, my department head caught whooping cough while on an overseas medical corps visit. His wife did, too. They were in their late 50s.

I had two coworkers get chickenpox in their 20s ... hellish enough for adults, but then one developed endocarditis as an encore.

Kitty Dukakis gave birth to a doomed child as a result of rubella infection during pregnancy - something that can be prevented by vaccines.

Vaccinations and boosters are not just for kids anymore!

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Pertussis

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Hell, I got pertussis right here in the US of A because of someone's unvaccinated contaminated little child. Pure hell.

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yes and. . .

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. . . a lot of kids that get whooping cough get it from their unvaccinated parents. I can't imagine the guilt of giving that to a kid--it's heartbreaking to watch.

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"pro-measles" ahahahahahaha

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They probably don't think of themselves that way, but hey, if that's the side you want to line up on...

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I honestly don't think there

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I honestly don't think there is anyone on earth who is as wrong as often as Trump. He has never met a dumb conspiracy theory he didn't latch on to.

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How many of those protesters

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How many of those protesters in that photo actually have children of their own? And of those who do have children of their own, I feel bad for those children!

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Let's return to 1760s smallpox vaccinations

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That people had enough confidence that suffering the lessor harmful cowpox versus the full onslaught of smallpox says that the concept of vaccination of very old.

The fact that smallpox is virtually non-existence in areas where vaccination is common shouts the importance.

It is sad for each person who may suffer side effects from vaccination. But all of life has risks. If a person never walks outside because they fear sun burn or never crosses the street because they fear being hit by a car then they will go nowhere in life.

I don't understand the blanket condemnation of a process that has proved by the millions that it prevents immeasurable amounts of suffering and extends lives which otherwise would end quickly.

The average age in centuries past was not because most people died in the 30s. It was because most people died before they reached their 20s. i don't know the estimated statistics but I would not be surprised if the primary cause of death of anyone younger than 20 was disease. Many of which are now prevented by vaccines.

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Proof

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Nothing constitutes "proof" to those who ignore evidence and reasoning that doesn't support their preferred worldview. The fact that they're unhappy about their situation makes it really hard to get them to see that their worldview is a choice, not "truth". There is gratification in what they're doing -- finding an outside agency to blame for something that is just a case of "shit happens, you had bad luck" -- but it's the kind of gratification that leads to further pain.

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The fact that smallpox is

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The fact that smallpox is virtually non-existence in areas where vaccination is common shouts the importance.

Not virtually non-existent. Eradicated. Last case in 1977 thanks to vaccines.

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The anti-vaxxers are vicious...and dangerous, to boot.

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That whole anti-vaccine movement is mainly based on one thing: the fear of autism. What's really horrific is the fact that so many parents are refusing to get their babies and children vaccinated for precisely that reason. The chances are better than not that if an infant supposedly becomes autistic after receiving a vaccine, then s/he was more than likely hardwired together like that while in utero, in the womb...well before s/he even came into the world.

The people who refuse to vaccinate their kids are not only exposing other children to the good possibility of contracting a deadly but preventable disease or diseases, but are also exposing their own kids to that possibility as well. How would that make the anti-vaxxers feel to know that?

I remember getting both measles and mumps when I was a young child. I had the mumps, on both sides (which hurt like hell!), in pre-school, back in the mid-1950's, and the measles back in the spring of 1962, as a 5th grader, shortly before the MMR Vaccine came out. I subsequently developed a life-long immunity to both of those childhood illnesses. Today, however, much more potent and more deadly strains of measles and mumps have emerged.

My siblings and I I also got polio vaccines, both in the forms of injection and in the form that one drank. So did my sibling's kids get their vaccines, and we're all alive and well because of that.

There were several people in our town that came down with polio and became permanently incapacitated, because they were not vaccinated.

Dr. Andrew Wakefield lost his accreditation and his license to practice medicine, and well he should have.

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