ICE arrests undocumented Irish immigrant

The Irish Times reports on the arrest of John Cunningham, a Brighton electrician who has lived here since 1999 but who is now in the South Bay House of Corrections awaiting deportation. But the Irish Department of Foreign Affairs says that ICE isn't targeting the Irish any more than it did before Jan. 20. Still, that's not easing worries among local Irish residents.

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    Laws

    By on

    Rules are rules, we must deport ALL illegal aliens regardless of race/nationality.

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    Voting is closed. 41

    Did he commit a crime?

    Beyond being undocumented?

    Electricians generally make a good salary. So you can either charge him back taxes and fines (assuming he hasn't already had his taxes withheld by employers) or you can waste the time and money to incarcerate and deport him.

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    Does it matter?

    By on

    Is he legally here? No, so pog me thoin!

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    Voting is closed. 37

    It's Pog Mo Thoin

    You must be from the set that didn't get their Leaving Certificate en Gaeilge. There are a couple of other Irish words I would love to lay on you but decorum prohibits it.

    All of you screaming "What Part of Illegal Don't You Understand", How many of you are giving The Great Pumpkin a pass on all of his transgressions including alleged sexual assault, collaboration with the Russians (You know the bad guys in Red Dawn, Rocky 4, Miracle On Ice, etc.), obstruction of justice amongst other allegations are all for smacking around a person, one of may hard working people, from Ireland, Niger, China, El Salvador, Colombia, or wherever just living a clean life here (and paying taxes)?

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    Voting is closed. 56

    Laws

    The federal government has plenty of flexibility in how they choose to apply the laws. It would also be legal to not deport him.

    I assure you there are no unemployed native born electricians in the Boston area unless they are completely incompetent.

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    The issue is it's foolish

    Deporting him serves no purpose. It doesn't make this country safer or richer. The government could have bilked him for taxes and fines, but no, they picked the one option in which everyone losses. (Including his clients who now are scrambling to find another electrician.)

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    You must be new here (in America 2017)

    By on

    Plenty of hard-working illegals of various nationalities are getting deported. Famously there's a Latino guy in IL who owned a restaurant who was or is being deported for the same 'crime' as this Irish fellow.

    It's all bullshit of course but yeah it certainly shouldn't be based on ethnicity.

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    IT'S ALSO NOT A CRIME

    By on

    Overstaying a visa or other unauthorized residency in the US is a civil offense, not a criminal one.

    Unlawful immigration IS NOT A CRIME - it's as serious an offense as jaywalking.

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    And what is the punishment?

    By on

    For this guy, he could have avoided any time at South Bay by going online to Aerlingus.ie and booking his return from his 18 year holiday.

    I've often wondered if people really think the federal government cannot enforce immigration law.

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    It's a hammer in search of a nail

    By on

    I'm certainly not saying they cannot enforce it. I'm saying they should, as many do, focus on getting rid of actual criminals and focus on punishing and removing human trafficking organizations. That would serve the public interest. Kicking out some guy who hangs drywall or works as an electrician seems like an organization looking to justify its budget and staffing levels.

    And let's not fool ourselves, just like any branch of law enforcement, there is always a bad element attracted to the power aspect of the job vs the civic duty or interest in making a good living side of the job. The power hungry bullies are ascendant in ICE now and running the show. It was already the bottom of the barrel in terms of federal law enforcement.

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    What does that have to do

    By on

    What does that have to do with being deported? If you are not lawfully in the nation you can be deported. It is a pretty simple concept.

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    And if you drive over the speed limit...

    By on

    ...you can be pulled over and ticketed, and also written up for any other "safety" violation such as a blown-out license plate bulb. So let's do that to absolutely every single speeder, starting right now. You game for that?

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    It is a game of odds, one guy

    By on

    It is a game of odds, one guy getting detained to be deported is hardly an indicator that EVERYONE is getting detained and deported.

    Same thing happens with speeders, most get off, some dont.

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    I am not disputing that

    By on

    I just think a lot of the politics behind this is prefaced on the idea that these people committed a crime, when they didn't. It's also prefaced on the fact that a majority of white people fundamentally don't accept the 14th Amendment for what it says, which is a bigger problem.

    But it is irresponsible and misleading and reckless to say that undocumented immigrants committed a crime by overstaying their visa, or even sneaking across the border. They committed a civil offense - yeah, it has a nasty punishment, but they aren't criminals. This sort of blood libel bullshit needs to be stamped out before it starts any more fires.

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    So you're saying

    By on

    using your jaywalkers analogy, a cop could decide to not ticket the jaywalker and instead escort them right back across the street and order them use the crosswalk.

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    Did he commit a crime?

    By on

    Beyond being undocumented?

    Did Neil Entwistle commit a crime outside of murdering his wife? This Irishman is an illegal alien and just because he's white he can't get special treatment.

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    Is he going to be punished

    By on

    Is he going to be punished beyond being deported? No?

    So what is the conflict?

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    Taxes

    By on

    He was paying his taxes.

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    I hope you don't eat food

    By on

    I hope you don't eat food because guess who picks/slaughters/cooks the majority of it in this country?

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    I know this one

    By on

    People who drive cars!

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    If only

    By on

    this idealic thought were true. But alas the darker you are i.e. come from below the equator the more likely you are to be deported. Send his ass back to the Isles.

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    We'll get right on that...

    By on

    First, can you update your address in our database so we know where to send the cops to administer all of your traffic violations to you?

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    Good

    By on

    I'm not anti-immigrant, and not advocating we spend a lot of resources on big sweeps or arrest people at the hospital or in court. But if we have a guest policy that stipulates it's good for 90 days, and people treat it as if it's permanent, then things are out of control. And this doesn't seem like just a Trump thing- IIRC, plenty of people were deported (properly) under President Obama.

    I also think the legal immigration system should be drastically improved, but that's a different discussion.

    The native of Glencolmcille, Co Donegal, had been living in the United States since 1999 and had not returned to Ireland in 16 years

    “entered the country lawfully under the visa waiver programme but failed to depart in compliance with the terms of his visit,”

    The visa waiver programme permits visitors to travel to the US for tourism, business or while in transit for up to 90 days without having to obtain a visa. Overstaying the term of the programme is one of the most common ways that undocumented Irish enter the country.

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    The system needs to be reformed

    By on

    Going back to the second term of the GWB administration, there was a feeling from all sides of the debate that the immigration system needs to be fixed. In my mind, that means dealing with people who are here but shouldn't be, making the system better (perhaps more visas for sectors of the economy where it is needed while making sure that these visas aren't intended to replace workers that are currently doing the jobs) while at the same time ensuring that the borders are respected and only those authorized to be in the country are here only for as long as they are authorized to be here doing that which they are authorized to do. Even if all sides can get together and accomplish something, overstaying a tourist visa will probably remain a grounds for removal.

    This guy came on a tourist visa 18 years ago. While I have some sympathy for him, he knew that he broke the law and was continuing to break the law, so hopefully Donegal will be good for him. Or Australia. Probably Australia.

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    How about...

    By on

    In my mind, that means dealing with people who are here but shouldn't be, making the system better (perhaps more visas for sectors of the economy where it is needed while making sure that these visas aren't intended to replace workers that are currently doing the jobs) while at the same time ensuring that the borders are respected and only those authorized to be in the country are here only for as long as they are authorized to be here doing that which they are authorized to do.

    How about we fix the immigration system first, before we go buck wild deporting everyone we can get our hands on? Because you see, if we first "deal with people who are here but shouldn't be", that means deportation (or, less likely, an asylum claim). So you toss 'em all out, and then you start to "make the system better" with a timid and tepid approach of issuing more visas (not more classes of visas, which would make sense, but "more visas" that are presumably of the same types we have already). Oh, and we have to make sure they "aren't intended to replace workers that are currently doing the jobs", which is impossible to do; how do you measure intent, and how could you possibly screen that many applications? So, your proposed changes will have the effect of:

    1) Removing a whole lot of law-abiding people who are currently doing jobs that need doing
    2) Putting them in a position where, in effect, they cannot "get in line" to get back in, because the classes and numbers of visas available for the jobs they're doing are somewhere between "fuckall" and "none" (this is assuming they could afford the visa process)
    3) Leave most of these jobs unfilled and the work undone, because citizens and people with legal immigration status are not lining up to do them
    4) Separate families where some members have legal status and others don't
    5) Give a nice big budgetary shot-in-the-arm to an already overbearing bureaucracy, AND
    6) Sacrifice a whole fuckton of our remaining civil liberties (yes, yours too) in order to fulfill the "only for as long as they are authorized to be here doing that which they are authorized to do" border security fantasy.

    You do seem somewhat well-intentioned about this, so I do kinda hate to harsh on you, but this is a really, really dumb idea. I hope that you were just missing some of the above information, and that's why you put it forth. And I'm no immigration expert, I've just been receiving an education in these topics lately because I'm trying to help some decent people who are caught up in this mess. My suggestion -- and I realize there's a lot I don't know -- would look more like:

    1)Develop additional categories of visas that are based on the reality of the labor situation in the US today, and not on fantasies of red-blooded American high school and college kids doing farm work on their summer holidays. Revisit this annually and change quotas and add categories as appropriate.

    2)Make the approval process timely and affordable.

    3)Provide assistance to workers in the US to renew visas legally.

    4)Come up with something better than deportation for civil immigration violations -- at the very least for undocumented people without criminal violations or with citizen children or spouses. Once deported, the cost and resources of being readmitted is prohibitive for many.

    The current situation encourages undocumented people to stay underground rather than try to "get in line", as people who don't understand the problem always want them to do. That's what needs to be fixed. Simply rounding up every undocumented person in the country and sending 'em back to wherever may result in emotional gratification for some people, but it won't fix any problems.

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    Question of prespective

    By on

    You ask-

    How about we fix the immigration system first, before we go buck wild deporting everyone we can get our hands on?

    The status quo benefits the status quo. Obama's deferred action was a slight move, but not a change in the system in reality. Honestly, I think that deporting the likes of this guy and having a growing season without enough farm workers (or a summer without imported summer help) will drive the issue better than anything Obama did. Since 2006 there has been very little movement in this issue. Perhaps sometimes a little disruption gets things done.

    That said, "dealing with people who are here but shouldn't be" (my words) doesn't necessarily mean deportation, but since no one in Washington, on either side of the aisle, has the fortitude to rewrite the immigration laws, maybe having the face of someone from the Gaeltacht who's heading home on the cover of the newspapers will get some action.

    Immigration is an issue where bipartisan compromise could be achieved. Politically, one of Trump's biggest faults (and yes, there are many) is not tackling this first, but rather going after the ACA, but that's just me.

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    Speaking of non sequiturs

    By on

    The status quo benefits the status quo. Obama's deferred action was a slight move, but not a change in the system in reality.

    In what way does that have anything to do with what I wrote?

    Honestly, I think that deporting the likes of this guy and having a growing season without enough farm workers (or a summer without imported summer help) will drive the issue better than anything Obama did.

    If you get your wish, I hope you and your whole family go hungry. That will drive the issue home to you, Child of Nader.

    "dealing with people who are here but shouldn't be" (my words) doesn't necessarily mean deportation

    And what else would it mean in order to remove these undesirables from our shores, as you said should be done in your previous post? Teleportation?

    Immigration is an issue where bipartisan compromise could be achieved. Politically, one of Trump's biggest faults (and yes, there are many) is not tackling this first, but rather going after the ACA, but that's just me.

    Kidding, right? Trump has absolutely no will to create a workable solution around this. Hint: a solution doesn't become workable just because it stigmatizes, terrorizes, incarcerates and deports the people that YOU don't like.

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    Oh, boy, so much here

    By on

    Let's start with your last 6 words, "the people that YOU don't like." I'M IRISH, you feckin eejit. Like, an Irish citizen. As in, I've seen Gaelic football both in Canton and at Croke Park. But enough of your ignorance.

    I don't have the time to give you a history of the history of "immigration reform" in the Bush and Obama administrations (one tried and failed, the other barely tried), but across the spectrum (perhaps except for you) there is a need to change things. From one side, there is a desire to provide something to those who are here when they don't have authorization to do so, while the other side there is a desire to make sure those who are here obeying the terms of admission with an eye towards securing the border. There is a place for compromise, but the likes of you can't see it. Perhaps work permits for illegals without a pathway to citizenship. If the economy really needs workers as opposed to cheap labor, there is a way to achieve this. Heck, America is a nation of immigrants, but it is also a nation of laws.

    Again, at the end of the day, DHS' moves are a direct example of the previous administrations (and Congresses) failure to deal with this. Why do you think it is okay that we have the situation we have?

    EDIT- I left a word out in the last paragraph. Hopefully it makes more sense.

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    "the likes of you"

    By on

    Let's start with your last 6 words, "the people that YOU don't like." I'M IRISH, you feckin eejit. Like, an Irish citizen. As in, I've seen Gaelic football both in Canton and at Croke Park. But enough of your ignorance.

    Do you seriously think I was talking about the (almost certainly non-existent) crackdown on undocumented Irish people in the US?

    From one side, there is a desire to provide something to those who are here when they don't have authorization to do so, while the other side there is a desire to make sure those who are here obeying the terms of admission with an eye towards securing the border. There is a place for compromise, but the likes of you can't see it.

    "The likes of me" can see that "compromise" is the wrong word here. You "compromise" between the two simplistic positions that you outlined is a solution for nobody. What we need is a different approach. I outlined that in some detail above, but it sounds like you're not interested in engaging with that.

    Again, at the end of the day, DHS' moves are a direct example of the previous administrations (and Congresses) to deal with this. Why do you think it is okay that we have the situation we have?

    The first sentence is not a sentence, the second is nonsense. Care to rephrase? What exactly do you mean by "okay"? According to whom?

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    You make a lot of assumptions

    By on

    And you know what they say about people who assume too much.

    What is the problem with any nation enforcing their immigration laws? I have not problems with any immigrants, and I would put the immigration policies of the United States against most nations and you'll see how liberal they are (perhaps aside from the current administration's approach to 6 nations.) My problem is with those who violate the law. Take this cultchie as an example. Say you had a spare bedroom and a friend asked to use it while some work was being done on his condo. A while passes and you ask him how the work is going. He says that he sold the condo and plans on living with you (and of course he will help out with the bills.) Let's be honest, that wasn't a part of the deal.

    From a public policy perspective, the status quo isn't working, and things need to be dealt with. One way or another the nation has to figure out how to deal with those who are not here legally. One way to handle it would be to have people debate like adults and come to a common ground. Then there's what you seem to be doing.

    And yes, that sentence is missing something and will be edited.

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    The pot calls the kettle black...

    By on

    And you know what they say about people who assume too much.

    The pot calls the kettle black, and attempts once more to shift the goalposts.

    What is the problem with any nation enforcing their immigration laws? I have not problems with any immigrants, and I would put the immigration policies of the United States against most nations and you'll see how liberal they are (perhaps aside from the current administration's approach to 6 nations.)

    I'm sorry, is there some kind of prize for having "liberal" immigration policies? No. Have I said or suggested that there should be? Also no. Is there some kind of meaningful international standard of what constitutes "liberal" immigration policy, and is it relevant here? No and no.

    My problem is with those who violate the law. Take this cultchie as an example. Say you had a spare bedroom and a friend asked to use it while some work was being done on his condo. A while passes and you ask him how the work is going. He says that he sold the condo and plans on living with you (and of course he will help out with the bills.) Let's be honest, that wasn't a part of the deal.

    I see. So, you're equating someone stealing your property with someone overstaying a visa -- in other words, you're equating a crime in which there is a victim with a crime in which there is none. Do you feel equally strongly about anyone who speeds or fails to signal a lane change?

    From a public policy perspective, the status quo isn't working, and things need to be dealt with. One way or another the nation has to figure out how to deal with those who are not here legally. One way to handle it would be to have people debate like adults and come to a common ground. Then there's what you seem to be doing.

    Oh, now, I am crushed. Really, you put me in my place there. That's a surefire win when you don't want to engage on substance. You ride that pony till it drops, Waquoit, it'll take you far.

    (edited to add: for example, you failed to respond to any of the following:

    "My suggestion -- and I realize there's a lot I don't know -- would look more like:
    1)Develop additional categories of visas that are based on the reality of the labor situation in the US today, and not on fantasies of red-blooded American high school and college kids doing farm work on their summer holidays. Revisit this annually and change quotas and add categories as appropriate.
    2)Make the approval process timely and affordable.
    3)Provide assistance to workers in the US to renew visas legally.
    4)Come up with something better than deportation for civil immigration violations -- at the very least for undocumented people without criminal violations or with citizen children or spouses. Once deported, the cost and resources of being readmitted is prohibitive for many."

    I guess ad hominems are easier, though, huh?)

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    Let's end this

    By on

    Your suggestions are pretty good. I don't agree with them all entirely, but they are reasonable.

    That said, again you are twisting things. I don't equate overstaying a visa with theft. I equate someone deciding to stay someplace beyond when they are allowed with, well, someone deciding to stay someplace beyond when they are allowed.

    Lastly, yes, as hominems are easier, which is why you lead this discussion down this path by saying there are people I don't like and don't want in this country. I don't really care about the ethnic makeup of immigrants, and I am definitely in favor of legal immigration. I just see the value in enforcing the laws, which is what every other nation on the planet does (save the internal borders of the EFTA.)

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    Double standard

    By on

    Why is there so much more outrage for the Irish guy being deported than when the same thing happens to Dominicans or Kenyans? I'm against the current "ship them all out" policy, especially when it's used against kids who grew up here or people in process of trying to correct their status, but if we're going to have it the policy should be applied across all ethnic groups. This man is no less blameworthy than someone from South America who came 18 years ago on a 90 day visa and never left.

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    I didn't read that there was

    By on

    I didn't read that there was more outrage for one than any of the the others???

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    To be fair

    By on

    MG has special reading glasses. While most of us see comments that say some variation of "Trump's enforcement of the immigration laws are draconian overall" or "who cares if he's Irish, he's here illegally and should be gone", MG sees none of that.

    Of course, other than 2 relatives of Obama, I've never seen anything about Kenyan illegal immigrants, so those glasses have a strong prescription.

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    Read it. That is no different

    By on

    Read it. That is no different than any other story I have read about good people being deported.

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    Perhaps

    By on

    mg will lend us his/her glasses when he/she is done with them.

    That said, Cullen is Irish, so he will write about the Irish with a certain sympathetic voice. I don't remember ever reading him write about Dominicans or Haitians or Kenyans being deported with the idea that it was good, but again, I don't wear glasses when I read.

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    I am against the wide sweeps

    By on

    I am against the wide sweeps currently being conducted but if they are going to happen it should be the same for all ethnic groups.

    Although I do find it incredibly ballsy to start going after Irish and other European people here from a "political" standpoint. Some of the anti immigration types hold those positions because they simply believe we are a nation of laws and what not. BUT a good number of the people who chant deport deport are doing so based off of racial prejudice. If the government under Trump starts deporting white people from Ireland and Eastern Europe I would be interested to see how well the "build the wall" block stands together.

    For their part the Irish Immigration community has been incredibly supportive of other immigrants even when it was looking like they themselves were not on the radar of immigration officials. So I would hope nobody finds solace or glee in this who would otherwise be pro immigrant.

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    What happens

    By on

    If I go to Ireland on a student visa and overstay my visit by 16years?

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    Starting now?

    By on

    In 16 years, you can probably easily file for asylum from the GUNited States of Jesus and stay there.

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    I think they give your kids

    By on

    I think they give your kids citizenship if they are born there.

    So I checked, nope. Those damn Irish with their racist immigration policies!

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    If you do not want to get

    By on

    If you do not want to get pulled over for speeding do not fly a flag saying you are speeding while speeding past a police officer.

    If you do not want to get deported for being in the country illegally do not go on a major, prime time, TV program describing how to avoid being detained for being in the country illegally while being in the country illegally.

    I oppose mass deportations, and support a major increase in available visas. That said it is difficult to feel bad for a person who may has well has shouted from the rooftops that he was unlawfully in the country.

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    That's one

    By on

    I oppose mass deportations, and support a major increase in available visas. That said it is difficult to feel bad for a person who may has well has shouted from the rooftops that he was unlawfully in the country.

    That's one. Would you even know about any of the others? No, you wouldn't, because they're doing their best to fly below the radar. So your "If you do not want to get deported for being in the country illegally do not go on a major, prime time, TV program describing how to avoid being detained for being in the country illegally while being in the country illegally" advice is nice for those who are going on a major, prime time, TV program etc., but what advice do you have for the rest who don't want to be deported?

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    Try not to get caught? Just

    By on

    Try not to get caught? Just like speeders there is a risk of getting caught. If you are in the country illegally you can be deported, that is how this works.

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    There's is not some obvious

    By on

    There's is not some obvious need for an increase, since there are so many people who are allowed already.

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    News? Illegal Irish have been deported for years

    By on

    Why is this news? Kevin Cullen at the Globe gets a column out of Irish deportations every few years. Go to any bar frequented by Irish here illegally and they know the risk and have known for decades.

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