Racism banner unfurled on Green Monster

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    I agree

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    1) Stop playing the Star Spangled Banner before sporting events. Do we play the anthem at other entertainment venues, like films, plays, concerts, etc.? What makes sports so special?

    2) Stop with the forced militarism by all the "honoring" the military at sporting events.Sure, give the active military and veterans free seats, even put them on the Jumbotron, but why do we have to stand up and clap?

    3) Stop the shaming of people who dont stand up or remove their hats for "God Bless America" at baseball games. It isnt our national anthem, and it brings the imaginary wizard in the sky into the equation too.

    4) Stop with the giant flags, Air Force flybys, and honor guards on opening day.

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    Are you say

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    Patriotism and honoring the military are right-wing ideals. If so your also saying liberalism is blatantly anti-american.

    Thank you for your honesty.

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    Are you say(ing)

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    that you are an right wing extremist that has no clue? Thank you for your honesty!

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    what do they signify.

    it's perfectly reasonable to examine practices like playing the national anthem at sporting events and fighter jet flyovers and ask what do they signify.

    militarism

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    Pervasive militarism and war fetish as the pinnacle of patriotism .. Now that's right-wing.

    American Pride

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    shines through in sports, both professional and amateur. Have a look at New Orleans Saints returning to the Superdome after Katrina, or JJ Watt entering the field at the Houston Texans' first game this year after Harvey. Go look up the Bruins national anthem from the days following the Boston Marathon Bombing.. the entire stadium sang the national anthem together, and if that doesn't make you proud and give you chills, check your pulse. Sports have a positive influence on our culture, and provide an opportunity for millions of people to forget their problems for a few hours and just enjoy themselves.

    Do you not think military members deserve your applause? Then don't clap. Better yet, don't go to sporting events. Do your own thing and leave sports alone. You're entitled to your opinion and your preferences, and SO ARE the millions of sports fans who enjoy the games as they are. Attending a sporting event is a social and communal event; if that's not for you, great. No problem.

    But don't try and ruin it for me and the MILLIONS of Americans who love sports for myriad reasons.

    Thank you. Go Sox

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    If a little tiny banner up for 45 seconds ruined it for you

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    I'm sorry that you're so thin-skinned. For those of us who were there, it happened, it created a little conversation, and it was over.

    Sports are intrinsically communal, yes. However, they aren't intrinsically patriotic unless a team and league unabashedly adopts a semi-jingoistsic, MURICA attitude (ala NFL teams which have been paid by the pentagon for such displays).

    Part of being a community is acknowledging truths of that community. I have no problem with some passionate activists expressing their message in a way that harmed exactly no one at a baseball game.

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    Huh?

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    WTF does honoring the military and the country have to do with a sporting event? I love going to Sox games, but I dont need Sox and MLB management to tell me how to be patriotic and force me to honor the flag and the military on their terms. I come from a military family, and although I am not an active member or veteran, I honor the military on my own terms. I guess you need someone to tell you when and how to do it. Sad.

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    Real honor

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    Have you ever heard "taps" being played at a military funeral for a relative?Have you ever visited a grave in a military cemetery?
    If the sports teams really want to honor the military, then lets have a moment of silence at the games for every serviceman or woman who dies in combat, each and every time

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    Yes.

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    Yes.

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    I know, right?

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    It's like the American Cancer Society - I had to go to like page 4 of their website to learn whether they were for or against.

    /firmly pro baseball
    //firmly anti racism
    ///firmly wishes he could be firmly pro America but geez

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    What a waste...

    ...all that money they spent on Monster Seats just so they could pull that BS stunt?

    Of course, I guess if they're stupid enough to come up with that plan in the first place...

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    Yes can you believe that

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    Yes can you believe that someone would think racism is a bigger deal than a few hundred bucks???

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    According to one of the TV

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    According to one of the TV news stations they weren't seated in that section. Supposedly they had approached fans seated in that section and asked if they could sit near them. That's when they pulled their stunt

    Says...

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    ...the voice from the couch.

    For a "BS stunt", it sure does seem to have you riled up.

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    I wonder

    I wonder if the same people who oppose a banner drop in Fenway that makes the point racism is in our national DNA also oppose Colin Kaepernick's silently respectful protest of taking a knee during the national anthem

    I wonder

    I wonder if the same people who oppose a banner drop in Fenway that makes the point racism is in our national DNA also oppose Colin Kaepernick's silently respectful protest of taking a knee during the national anthem

    It's difficult

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    to say what distinguishes a meaningful protest from an annoying attention-getting stunt. I admire Colin Kaepernick and think what he's been doing is worth a lot of respect, and I can't see a picture of Tommie Smith and John Carlos on the podium at the '68 Olympics without a thrill and a sense of awe. This seemed more like a small group wanting to be admired for pointing out what everybody else knows already.

    I always think that the story of The Emperor's New Clothes should end with the kid's uncle pulling him aside, and saying, "Look, kid, everyone here knows he's naked, except for him. He's batty as a loon, so we humor him. And by the way, he's your grandad; other than him, the only one who thinks that he's really the Emperor is you."

    Nice to know than Fenway has

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    Nice to know than Fenway has such crack security that something that large could easily be smuggled in. Goes to show the searches are more about keeping concessions and liquor from being smuggled in than anything else.

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    You can bring food in

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    A friend's ritual involves getting a Popeye's meal* on the way into the park. You can't bring a drink in, and they'll peek in the bag, but she's never had anyone give her a hard time about it.

    *no, my friend isn't John Lackey

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    Their stunt worked

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    Whether you agree with their stunt or disagree they got their message across and will make national news. Somehow Tom Yawkey will be blamed for the banner that was probably hung by white males who grew up in segregated suburbs.

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    With the majority

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    Of non-crazy ____-winger whites stuck in the middle.

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    Kinda like the Civil War!

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    It's almost like one group of white people think they are better than everyone else and the other group is like, no, no we're all human.
    Probably a term for that first group but i'm drawing a blank at the moment...

    Oh?

    Remind me who's fighting who and why?

    It must suck to be Black in America. If you speak up about biases, you're labeled as lazy or ungrateful, etc. If others point out discrimination, they're labeled as misguided hippies "at war" with others.

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    Transcendent progress would incorporate racist past

    I could say it's one group that was on top but is now losing its economic status and is threatened by another group with rising incomes. White liberal arts grads vs white sports fans (did I do that right?)

    These fights always turn out to be about something else. Maybe black people are mad at the Red Sox or Boston or America but this demonstration doesn't seem to have anything to do with that. White Knight heroism uses magical black saint-victims as ritual objects to venerate while attacking the real enemy.

    Discovery of racism is now the major weapon used against the middle class. A lot of those people are racist to some degree, yes, and certainly were more racist in the past. 95% of us would be sypathetic to the Nazis if we were transmuted into bodies living in Germany in 1937.

    Does your concept of improving race relations include a way to incorporate a past where the problems and goals were completely different and called forth completely different leaders? Only if you can give up using ghosts to beat on the people you live next to now.

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    Major weapon?

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    I don't see the people who dropped this banner as "white knight" heroes using the backs of an historically oppressed group of people as a springboard for their own devices. The burden of trying to end institutional racism falls squarely on white people, and it's not the job of any person of color to do that work for white people.

    The fact remains that Fenway crowds are incredibly white when compared with the demographics of the area. If you're trying to talk to white people about racism, go where they are.

    Incorporating our past in discussions -- rather than whitewashing or plain old ignoring it -- is key to understanding the impact of historical racism in this country. When present-day white people stop idolizing Jefferson Davis, maybe then we can begin to move on from the past.

    They idolize Jeff Davis BECAUSE you hate him

    If you make confederate monuments flags etc the battlefield to turn America into a social democracy or whatever we have to believe in now then they will fight for them.

    if there is institutional racism at the Red Sox please start the investigation. You won't because there is none, it's an irresponsible accusation, and your real target is the average white sports fan.

    If you demand that black progress can only come with the suppression and at the expense of the white sports guy then this is what you are going to get.

    Yes!

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    Their target (not mine, I came to watch the game) was the average white sports fan. You're right! But they're not demanding that progress for people of color come at the expense of the white sports guy. They want the white sports guy to remember, even inside the white safe-space that Fenway is, that racism is real and it is alive and needs to be reckoned with not swept under the rug.

    The fact that they did this at Fenway--where there have been multiple instances of overt racism just this season--seems okay with me.

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    No

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    The stunt didn't work.

    I still honestly can't figure out if this was some alt-right stunt or some progressive stunt.

    Protest fails.

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    Because...

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    Because Waquoit, the perennial Negative Nancy of uhub whenever the subject has the least whiff of progressive politics, is the best possible judge of whether a protest "fails" or not. I bet you can get a "Waquoit seal of approval" stamp made up just for you!

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    Well

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    it got a lot of people to talk about what a stupid stunt it was. If that's your idea of success...

    The "all publicity is good publicity" argument is really as stupid and lazy as it gets. If they'd killed a few people they would have gotten even more attention. Would that have been an improvement?

    Woah, Cowboy

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    From dropping a banner for 30 seconds to killing a few people in only four sentences?

    I was

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    just using the rhetorical device of reductio ad absurdum, which admittedly is easily abused, and perhaps I abused it. I think that the argument that anything that gets noticed is by definition a success is a nauseating one, and wanted to demonstrate how easy it is to make it lead to ridiculous conclusions.

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    Fumble on the play: the posited "reductio ad

    asburdum" is actually a straw man argument, a logical fallacy.

    Rational people don't believe killing someone to make a political point is a good idea. Saying, "This is effectively as dumb as murdering someone to gain publicity for your cause: not helpful" is a classic straw man, an irrelevant distraction.

    An example of a proper reductio argument would be contending that hanging banners at a baseball game inevitably leads to murder as a form of political protest, which is patently absurd: clearly not your intended point.

    When dangling, mind your rhetoricals.

    Nope

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    From the picture it looks like one white dude, one white chick and a very short Grim Reaper in the middle.

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    Absolutely worked

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    They made a largely white crowd and television audience discuss racism. That's always a positive.

    The anger over it is simply some people being upset that their safe space was momentarily disturbed by the reality of our world.

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    The amount of people on the

    The amount of people on the internet who are too dense to figure out if this banner is pro-racism or anti-racism is kind of blowing my mind right now.

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    actually...

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    maybe the ones who can't figure it out are the smart ones, you know, the ones who think about things...

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    But here's the thing

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    If this banner was displayed 2 or 3 years ago, my snarky comments would have been "so, they're saying we shouldn't watch baseball" or "yeah, it was much bigger in the 50s, and now it's more concerned with Latinos than with African Americans," but since we are in the "Trumpland" era, when people are being more up front with their alleged racist viewpoints (see the Charlotte protests a few weeks back) there is always the chance that this banner was not unfurled by allies of the Black Lives Matter movement but by allies of the Free Speech movement. I mean, they took the "basket of deplorables" comment and ended up hosting a "deplora ball" after Trump took office. They might be wrong, but they are owning who they are.

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    Ever try looking

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    On the field? Also are you trying to suggest blacks aren't allowed at Fenway? Or you just upset THEY choose not to go, maybe they're avoiding people like you.

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    Yup

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    It's racist, white America's fault that at this time basketball and football are more popular among Black Americans, than hockey is.

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    Riiiiiight.....

    nothing to do at all about where we live or the fact that most folks that live on Geneva Ave don't expense their BoSox tix, eh?

    Check your racism

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    Is "folks that live in Geneva Ave" code for black people? Black people can't possibly have a job where they can expense tickets, yet choose to go to Celtics games instead of Red Sox?

    What are the Red Sox doing that's racist and keeping black fans away?

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    35 Years

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    Check your racism.

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    You're a fool

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    You know where most city residents take the Orange Line to when attending a game. Ruggles which abuts a large minority neighborhood.

    I was there

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    At least in our section the meaning was pretty clear -- it was forcing a perennially white Fenway crowd to remember that racism is with us and has been with us since the origins of our country. Certainly not excusing or legitimizing it.

    There were definitely some boos, but generally the park was pretty quiet. Perhaps confused, or perhaps (dare I imagine) in acknowledgement of the facts.

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    I was there too

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    Not many people in my section saw it. At that fourth inning break, Fenway had stopped playing music and announced an elderly veteran who walked onto the field waving. Our area stood up and cheered him. The banner was unfurled while we were saluting the veteran, and was yanked before we sat back down. I had to tell my group about the banner they didn't see.

    Fenway

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    "generally the park was pretty quiet"

    Because it's the most boring sportball sport. People were look at their phones between pitches instead of the field.

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    There were definitely some

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    There were definitely some boos

    Why would people boo?

    Oh that's right. It is entirely unacceptable/wrong/illegal to make white people uncomfortable. Can't believe I forgot that for a second.

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    Or maybe booing was the

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    Or maybe booing was the equivalent of an eye roll. Ah jeez, not these guys again. They've moved on from blocking traffic during my commute to interrupting Sox games.

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    Or

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    People trying to enjoy a nice late summer night don't like being lectured to by a bunch of white social justice warriors.

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    Boo hoo

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    It inconvenienced NO ONE. It caused NO HARM of any kind. If it's so traumatizing to be reminded of racism for a split second in a white people's safe space, then maybe we should all just hunker down at home.

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    Wow

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    A six-word sign is a lecture now. I'd say more, but this post is approaching Fidel-Castro-speech-length already.

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    So Adam, was that a click

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    So Adam, was that a click bait headline, or are you just as lost and clueless as the rest of the commenters on here thought that the sign was done by people in favor of racism?

    I love you, man

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    Like I love all people who accuse me of click bait, but still click on the link to leave a comment. Just can't resist the lure, huh?

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    Don't want to answer the

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    Don't want to answer the question, huh?
    And yes I extra clicked to comment after you suckered me in with headline, congrats.
    Have a fun night out on the town with extra 5 cents you just made office me.

    Oh, you want a serious answer?

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    So hard to tell sometimes, but here goes:

    I thought it was pretty obvious it was a protest against racism. Having thought about it some more, here are three reasons:

    • The context: Fenway Park has a history, going back to Tom Yawkey and extending through the Adam Jones thing and now the debate over whether to rename Yawkey Way.
    • Racists don't like using the word "racism" to discuss their racism anymore. What's the phrase all the cool Hitlerjugend use? Identitarian?
    • The sign had no typos, not grammatical mistakes and no sekrit runes or weird crosses that all the Hitlerjugend like to sprinkle their signs with as a message to the Enlightented.
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    Your headline (and the dopes

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    Your headline (and the dopes commenting on here last night) sure made it seem like it was BY racists and not AGAINST racists.

    Thing is, I'm fine with it being click bait. I'd rather think of you as trolling the dopes on here for clicks than being 1 of the dopes on here.
    Enjoy the extra nickel.

    Yet...

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    It was deployed on the "Green Monster". That *might* have been code for Pepe.

    Hahaha "None"

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    The clickbait worked. Is that why you are upset?

    We didn't come from monkeys

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    That baseball came from rounders used to be the assumption, but timelining doesn't quite always work given earlier mentions of "base ball" than rounders in texts from the time.

    Just like humans didn't come "from" monkeys but have a common ancestor, It's more likely that rounders and baseball have a common ancestor in earlier folk games like stool ball and the two developed regionally differently.

    Racism is bred from tribalism which comes from our monkey brain...sorry, common ancestor brain. American racism isn't "based" on European racism...more like its child.

    soooooo...

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    ...they got kicked out faster than the racist who insulted Adam Jones. Good going, Sox management.

    Racism is as American as Fenway

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    I was at Monday night's games with some friends in Pavilion seating. In the bathroom, as two ladies were speaking to each other in Spanish, someone yelled "ENGLISH!!!" in their nasty voice. I yelled back from my stall "B***h what??" It was silent. As I washed my hands, I spoke loudly with someone else about how racist and ignorant that was. The others in their stalls felt comfortable to speak in Spanish again. I know white fear runs deep, but are racists really that threatened by people speaking another language? Or are you guys mad you can't eavesdrop? I waited, but the racist didn't come out of her stall for me to ask her to her face.

    Calling out racism isn't political. It's basic humanity. At a park where people watch many immigrants and people of color play, how is defeating racism not relevant?

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    Where is the racism at Fenway?

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    I've been going to Fenway for nearly 50 years. Where is the racism? I've stood in standing room only, sat in the bleachers and enjoyed a few games in the luxury suites. Rainy, empty April games in the 70s to the full house 2013 World Series. I've never seen or heard racism at the park. BPD has a Community Disorders Unit. Where are they on the Adam Jones investigation? If racist slurs were uttered so that Jones could hear them in the outfield, do we have a witness among the 33,000 fans that night who can corroborate? I believe one small child came forward (presented by his father) but quickly changed his story.

    As for the fan who was supposedly "banned for life" for using a racial slur when critiquing the performance of the national anthem the very next night, the timing was astounding but what was even more shocking, the Red Sox and their friends at the Globe refusing to identify the racist. Under MA law, "no trespassing" requires notice, often printed in a legal ad in the back of the newspaper. As I have written before, why haven't the Red Sox taken a full page legal ad in their Globe to give such notice and prevent racist conduct in the future? Are the Red Sox covering up racism or did it ever happen at all? Front page stories have been written for much less, never mind the Globe could easily obtain the facts (if they exist) from their sister company, the Red Sox. Boston media? Hello?

    TL/DR

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    It isn't racism if a white guy doesn't think it is racism.

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    Like an Onion Headline

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    Area White Man Who Doesn't Experience Daily Racism Says He Gets To Decide if Racism Happened

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    No Fish in the Bleachers

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    I guess Fishy has connections and never sat in the bleachers.

    You really think the guys who used blow up dolls as beach balls (like an advertisement for rape) didn't also yell all sorts of shit at black fans and players?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!