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Police: Armed Jamaica Pond muggers held up six people in two incidents last Wednesday; tied one to a tree
By adamg on Tue, 09/30/2014 - 6:35pm
Boston Police report a total of six people were held up on the night of Sept. 24 around Jamaica Pond by two men, one armed with a gun, the other with a knife.
According to police, the men are black, Hispanic and in their early 20s.
Police said that around 11 p.m. on Wednesday, two people entered the E-13 station to report that they and three of their friends had just been mugged on the footpath that goes around Jamaica Pond:
One of the suspects displayed a black firearm while the second suspect had a knife. One of the suspects then placed his hand on the victim’s shoulder and demanded the victim’s possessions. The suspects then searched both of the victims for additional possessions. The suspects then fled the area on foot.
About 30 minutes later, police say, the two went after a man walking with his bicycle on the footpath near Pond Street:
One of the suspects displayed a black firearm while the second suspect had a knife. The suspects then forced the victim toward a wooded area and robbed him of his possessions. The two males fled the area on foot and left the victim bound to a tree.
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Comments
Just great. I guess I'll be
Just great. I guess I'll be bringing a gun when I visit JP from now on.
Weapons: If there's a
Weapons: If there's a reasonable chance that a given targeted, law-abiding citizen is carrying one, such perps would think twice about such attacks.
But in greater Jamaica Plain and for miles and miles around, such perps have no such fear. And so they go about their business largely unimpeded.
Massachusetts--underestimating the concept of deterrence...forever.
I spend a lot of time around the pond and I hate this stuff
But I don't think we will solve these kinds of problems by making sure everybody has an efficient method for killing people.
You don't? Well, then,
You don't? Well, then, perhaps you should re-read nira's last sentence.
Great point
Street crime is virtually unheard of in places like Florida and Texas.
Great logic nira, and
maybe then we can all just shoot-to-kill any time we think we feel a tad threatened, or a little cranky.
What's the difference between
What's the difference between that and those useless bottomfeeders that use the same weapon for their motives?
A tad cranky or threatened?
Maybe you can't trust yourself not to discharge a weapon at someone you have a minor spat with, but I guess thats more of a reflection on you.
I don't think having a bag tied to your head and left secured to a tree overnight is a case of being "a tad threatened" or "cranky".
I do not own a gun, and I don't want to own a gun. Though I can guarantee I would not be happy at that moment in time that I chose to stick to my beliefs rather than being able to defend myself.
Stand your ground
Hey, it's worked so well in Florida to contain crime.
Right?
Right?
Good logic
Since X did not work in a given unique circumstance
Then X shall not work in all other unique instances going forward
For many citizens,
For many citizens, anonamonster, it's just a matter of time until that happens. They, too, will feel not so happy.
Law-abiding people in this part of the country does not wish to deal with guns even as a means of deterrence and, if necessary, self-defense. Instead, they focus strictly on them as "killing machines" or something.
Quite naive and unthinking, if you ask me.
Not Naive At All
Nope - try informed.
A gun owned for "personal defense" is vastly more likely to be used against you, or result in an serious injury or fatal accident than it is to be used in self-defense.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9715182
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self...
Those aren't good odds. Sorry.
Hmm
I'd be interested in knowing if the sample contained only instances of legal and/or illegal gun owners?
Maybe it makes that distinguishment and I didn't see it.
Though I'd be willing to bet most of the times guns are used, it is by illegal gun owners.
The pandoras box is already open, you cant close your eyes and wish guns away. If it was that easy I'd already done so.
Do you feel police militirization is a good reason for an armed populace? Not being snarky here.
Chicago too!
.
Their crime rate was much
Their crime rate was much higher per capita until the laws were relaxed.
And Boston's crime rate was much higher, too ...
And yet we've relaxed nothing. You might want to investigate why crime in general has declined since the 1980s.
Violent crime in MA is up
Violent crime in MA is up overall compared to bordering states. Boston's decline has a lot to do with gentrification.
Anon is (suprise!) wrong. Violent crime in MA is down.
I know you're just a silly troll BSer, but it's so easy to go to the DoJ's Uniform Crime Reporting Statistics site and confirm it.
Here's a relevent excerpt from a generated table for violent crime rate in the New England states since 2000. The columns represent the year, total population, and total violent crime rate per 100k.
You can see that MA's rate is higher (and has been since the 60s - long before modern differences in gun control laws). We're a much larger state than the others (pop wise) and much more urban.
But in terms of the reduction in the violent crime rate, MA has been trending down for quite a while now. The rate peaked here in '93 (804.9), and has gone down by nearly 50% since then.
YEAR MA CT ME NH VT
2000 476.1 324.7 109.6 175.4 113.5
2001 477.8 334.6 111.7 170.2 105.1
2002 484.9 312.5 107.8 161.3 106.7
2003 473.1 316.8 108.6 150.3 114.2
2004 460.2 289.0 103.7 169.5 114.8
2005 461.0 273.0 112.0 135.0 126.0
2006 500.5 299.7 116.0 138.8 145.1
2007 441.7 301.1 118.8 144.1 129.1
2008 463.8 306.7 119.4 156.1 137.5
2009 462.6 300.9 119.9 160.4 134.6
2010 468.9 282.0 122.1 167.4 131.0
2011 427.3 275.7 123.3 217.3 147.6
2012 405.5 283.0 122.7 187.9 142.6
replace "violence crime" with
replace "violence crime" with "homicide" and you get a different picture
everyone with a brain knows violent crime has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with demographics (but we aren't allow to talk about that)
Bzzzzt! Still wrong!
Some (almost always anonymous) yahoo trots out this baloney once or twice a year around here - and it keeps getting debunked.
Here's the MA rate (per 100k) for Murder and Non-negligent Homicide in MA since 1974. Since the absolute numbers of these events are small, there's a fair amount of year-to-year variance. But the overall 40-year trend is easy to see - and it is down.
1974 4.4 1987 3.0 2000 2.0
1975 4.2 1988 3.5 2001 2.2
1976 3.3 1989 4.3 2002 2.7
1977 3.1 1990 4.0 2003 2.2
1978 3.7 1991 4.2 2004 2.7
1979 3.7 1992 3.6 2005 2.8
1980 4.1 1993 3.9 2006 2.9
1981 3.6 1994 3.5 2007 2.9
1982 3.8 1995 3.6 2008 2.6
1983 3.5 1996 2.6 2009 2.6
1984 3.6 1997 1.9 2010 3.3
1985 3.5 1998 2.0 2011 2.8
1986 3.6 1999 2.0 2012 1.8
Here's a quicky graph with simple linear interpolation for the trendline:
(Oh, and btw - sorry to burst your persecution-complex but we're allowed to talk about pretty much anything relevant here - however, dog-whistle BS like yours will tend to get called out. So sorry.)
Oddly the trend has been
Oddly the trend has been trending up the past decade with only last year being the outlier downward.
Anyone check to see if the FBI stats differ from the DoJ stats for the state?
How about we start in 1998
How about we start in 1998 with Mass's last big round of gun control?
http://www.bostonglobe.com
http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2013/02/17/the-nation-toughest-gun-co...
Trauma treatment
You do realize we have superior trauma treatment vs the 70s, 80s, 90s, even just 10 years ago?
People who died from gunshot wounds, stabbings, etc. in the past would have had a better chance to live another day, and do, in the second decade of the 21st century.
A better overall barometer would be violent crime rate, serious assaults,etc., not just the homicide rate. The homicide rate is however probably the most honest and least manipulated crime rate, you either died or didn't; most other crime stats can and are manipulated in a variety of ways.
actually no...adam censors
actually no...adam censors things he doesn't agree with....fairly cowardly move (and typical of pseudo intellectual "progressives")
Nothing pseudo about me, baby
Damn right. Here's how to combat my evil ways: Go set up your own site and you can rail around the clock about all those horrible minorities and evil libruls that are keepin' you down. And I won't be able to stop you!
I'm very pro gun.
Own a few, like to shoot a lot too.
On this board I've been called in idiot, been virtual bitch slapped by Swirly, had a few words with John Costello, had some disagreements with Anonymous. This is all after posting my very unpopular views (I know I've got some weird ones and own them).
You know what else? I've NEVER been censored by Adam.
Adam
Adam has posted alot of the crap I spew when I'm having a bad day (which I'm positive he doesn't agree with) - though he usually gives a sound, deserved thrashing after the fact.
Street crime is virtually
so are sidewalks
GET SERIOUS
You mean street crime in gated communities where everyone drives. There are no people on the streets there! Street crime in the inner cities of Texas and Florida is just as high as here, perhaps higher. Guns are NOT a deterrent to murder or robbery. This country, one of the most armed in the world, has much higher violent crime rates than less armed countries in the world. The difference is ADEQUATE policing and strong gun control. This country's Liberals fight surveillance cameras stupidly on the basis of privacy rights, for example. Conservatives support a gun industry that makes the illegal firearms which often fall into criminal hands due to poor gun control. There are no simple answers, but reversion to the Wild West won't make this a safer society for anyone.
Yeah, because things like
Yeah, because things like this never happen in other parts of the city.
Now would be a good time to
Now would be a good time to bring back the BPD mounted unit which used to patrol these paths.
Connolly Lost
Give it up.
Or
you could use some street smarts and stay off poorly lit, low-traffic paths after dark unless it's 100% absolutely necessary for you to be there.
Jamacia Pond is a park. Nothing good happens in parks after dark.
park at night
When this kind of thing happens in a park I always look to see what time it was. Most, if not all, of the attacks on the esplanade, for example, happen late at night. The people who are attacked are usually alone. Why would anyone expect mounted cops out there that late? Why would anyone walk there that late? Not that we should let our parks be unsafe at night, but it's just common sense to avoid, no?
Group of four and a group of two
Neither of these attacks were against a single person. If I was with three other people, I certainly wouldn't expect to get robbed in JP.
I'm also surprised there are enough people at the pond at night to make it worth lying in wait to rob people. It seems like hanging out near an orange line stop would be a higher percentage move by the muggers.
The fewer people go out at
The fewer people go out at night the more criminals are emboldened due to a lack of witnesses or potential intervention. Having MORE people out and about at night is SAFER.
I agree
I understand that and agree.
I'm just surprised that someone who wanted to commit a robbery thought the somewhat well lit Pond St. part of the Pond was a good place to go. They were right apparently. Unless the pond is a favorite hangout for the criminally minded, it seems kind of like a random choice.
And a higher likelihood of being caught.
It's hard to predict this stuff of course but there's a lot of foot traffic around the orange line stops, whereas the Pond gets pretty quiet after a certain hour. You have traffic racing by on the Jway but no one nearby to hear you scream, and a lot of easy ways for the perps to disappear quickly if someone does intervene. Scary.
Why would't you expect ot be
Why would't you expect ot be robbed in JP? Because JP is some sort of cool we don't get robbed because we wear skinny jeans mecca now? Robberies happened in the 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's and now. You live in the city and all you can get robbed anywhere at anytime in the city or the burbs. Does it suck? Yes. Is it a fact of life? Yes. Would a patrol or two arond the Pond and other parks like it at night be helpful? Yes. WIll it happen? Probably not.
What is even more concerning is the fact that my mom had to hear about it from an email sent around by neighbors and not anything on the news, or a robo call from local police. They have been calling the police & now mayors office to find out why no one in the area knew about it and what they can do to help (both police and neigborhood).
because statistics?
http://spotcrime.com/ma/boston
JP is a low crime part of the city. Getting mugged by the pond isn't completely shocking but yes, I would much less expect to get robbed JP than in downtown, or the South End or Southie or Roxbury.
I totally expect to eventually get my house burgled in Roslindale but not to get mugged in Roslindale.
There were several muggings
There were several muggings at the Rozzie Sq commuter stop earlier this year. It happens. A few years ago in JP ppl were trying ot rob houses in the same area in JP.
I wouldn't go by that website
I wouldn't go by that website. JP is not a low-crime area. It's *lower* than some areas, but it's not as safe as people like to pretend it is. We just don't want to freak out all the people who've moved over from Brookline.
I know right! Cower in fear
I know right! Cower in fear inside and let the thugs own the night. What is this the 1970s?
Totally
We should institute a curfew too.
False Fact!
"Jamacia Pond is a park. Nothing good happens in parks after dark."
One time I went for a midnight stroll around the pond with a lady friend. I got an HJ in the adjacent field. That wasn't just good, it was GREAT.
Where were the Police?
Do we know if they sent a car to the Pond after the first mugging?
Easy there, you want the BPD
Easy there, you want the BPD to actually work? They only respond to muggings if the victim is politically connected.
And by respond, I mean hold community meetings about how people need to be more careful, not do any actual investigations.
This happened
last Wednesday. Seems as though people should have been told about the incidents last week. A lot of people walk that route.
passwords and PINs as well
Someone sent an alert to neighbors via nextdoor.com with the added details that the person tied to the tree had a bag put on his head and was also forced to divulge laptop and phone passwords before they left. That little detail got me -- it's way beyond what the usual grab-and-run thieves do. Scary.
Yea, hence my comment about
Yea, hence my comment about the gun. If you try to rob me while I am armed I will run away crying like a little girl after dropping my wallet on the ground in front of you. If you try to take me into the woods and tie me to a tree while I am armed, one of us will be leaving in the back of an ambulance.
hey Rambo, stop it with the
hey Rambo, stop it with the 'little girl' derogatory comments -- it just makes you sound like an ass
Thanks, Captain America
An armed citizen makes a comment about knowing when to simply hand their wallet over to a mugger and both live to see another day, and when to actually make a stand to defend their lives using their weapon....and this is what you got from their comment.
Yes, very Rambo'esque. The similarities are striking /sarcasm
At least you'll be please to know girls everywhere from the ages of 3-8 are applauding your efforts not to have their good name sullied.
throws a ball like a girl
throws a ball like a girl
fights like a girl
runs like a girl
Sick and tired of 'like a girl' being an accepted put-down. Make your point without putting others down -- is that too difficult for you?
Little girl?
When I was a little girl I used to beat the shit out of weenies like you when they tried to push me around. Funny how they would cry foul afterward.
Let me guess, you're that "tough guy" who never leaves his "castle" for dread fear of statistically improbably events that will "absolutely happen" if he does.
I don't understand. Please help.
You're carrying. You are stopped by these guys, who demand your possessions. You throw your wallet on the ground. Ok so far, I guess (although I'm not sure that I believe that anyone who is armed is going to do that, particularly if one of the assailants produces a gun).
Then you seem to suggest that you are going to somehow draw your weapon when these guys are taking you into the woods (and after they have already searched you for other stuff, as the original post says happened)?
Given this chain of events, I don't really understand how these guys don't end up with your gun to complement theirs unless you use it to shoot them very early on in the confrontation.
How do you envision it would go down?
Throw down wallet and beat
Throw down wallet and beat feet. If they pursue my gun is coming out.
Does it matter?
So the possibility of being able to defend yourself is trumped by the possibility of not being able to defend yourself. Got it.
Scientifically speaking *
The mugging I hear about seem to be split 50-50 between "late at night" and "broad daylight".
Also, many are on or near main streets, not dark alleys.
* and by scientifically, I mean what I read on Uhub, tweets from BPD, Boston Courant Police blotter, and my neighborhood blogs, etc.
Questions for police
My question is why the police wait a week to warn anyone. These were promptly reported crimes and responded to by police. To make it worse, I've been around the pond around dusk several days in that week and only yesterday, AFTER they finally warn the public, did I see a patrol. I guess they finally had to with the news crews coming yesterday.
If there is a compelling reason to hold the info from the public, fine. But I presume that reason would be to catch them in the act the next day, or next day, or next day. But I saw no signs of them for week, until the press began to show up and the criminals had fair warning they knew what happened.
And better yet, who were they hiding the info from in the last week, who were they neglecting to warn? Not just us local residents, but how about the hundreds of people and their families who were taking part in the race on Sunday that included 9 laps around the pond, a race to benefit, and which included the participation of, people with challenges and disabilities.
I was there as the race was wrapping up, when the runners/walkers were thin but there was still inspiring, courageous disabled people, some with one assistant at their side, still making their way around.
They have no idea how courageous they were being. It's just unacceptable.
That's what the Boston Police
That's what the Boston Police always do. I have zero faith that the perpetrators will be caught.
They're having a community meeting, just as I predicted, at 4:30 on Friday. God forbid they hold it when people have time to get home from work.
BPD
"To shirk and deflect".