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Roxbury meeting on use of force by police turns tense

WBUR reports.

Rev. Laura Everett livetweeted the forum.

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State Sen. Sonia Chang-Diaz asked Conley if he would support legislation banning racial profiling.

“There’s no place for racial profiling. I’m with you on it,” Conley said.

“Thank you,” Diaz said.

“So you support the law?” someone from the audience called.

“I don’t know what the law is, but I support no racial profiling,” Conley said.

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in Boston, in Suffolk County, involve 'people of color', especially young men involved in drug trafficking, gang activity, and violent street crime. Most dangerous neighborhoods for violent crime are majority black or 'people of color'. There is heavy police presence on these neighborhoods because of the unending violence and rampant street crime. This has been the case for decades, 40-50 years. It's mirrored in every US city and major metro area. Nothing new.

I'm white, a guy, and have been stopped by police multiple times in my life, as recently as a month ago. I'm not a yuppie, hipster, don't live in a 'nice' suburb, don't drive a new, flashy vehicle, and am not required to dress in a suit and tie for work, so maybe there are socioeconomic factors at play here. Some people, if they look like a college student, yuppie, tourist, 'professional' indeed probably are rarely stopped by police or harassed in general, suspected of being a 'trouble maker', of stealing, ect., If you are used to being in the Back Bay, downtown, ect., but dress 'professional', especially in a suit, look like you work in a white collar office job, you will be treated differently, better in many cases, by almost everyone you encounter vs if you dress 'casual', especially if you are a guy of any skin color. I think women, in general, are automatically treated better in most places, treated with less suspicion. Everybody is 'profiled', and yes, it can be very insulting and completely off base, but it routinely happens and is part of life. It angers me, too.

As far as black folks and police, especially males, especially young males, it's mainly because of the very real and disproportionate level of violent crime, especially involving guns, that involve black males. Why do some people pretend this isn't the case? It's been well established for my whole life growing up and living in big cities. It's no secret, everyone who has grown up in especially less than ideal neighborhoods has stories to tell. And law enforcement statistics compiled by the DOJ and FBI back it up, they are really disturbing to look at, especially since some people gloss over or deny facts. I don't know what the solution(s) are regarding the very high rates of violent crimes, especially gun related, involving especially black males, are? I suspect the #1 cause is the massive breakdown of the basic family unit in especially black communities, the vast majority are born and raised in single parent homes, vast majority by a single mom or grandma, and due to the heavy involvement with social services, living in places like public housing projects, heavy involvement with the courts and justice system, ect., a sort of institutionalization takes hold. You of course aee examples of this among all people not just black, butbit's particularly pronounced and disproportionate among black folks.

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The forum was specifically about police use of force, which, yes, is an issue in minority neighborhoods.

Conley, Boston Police Superintendent in Chief William Gross, and Robert Merner, head of the Boston Police Department’s investigative services, thought they had come to the Twelfth Baptist Church to explain what happens in Boston after an officer is involved in a fatal shooting.

It was not a forum to discuss crime in general in the black community.

I realize this is upsetting to you Angry White Guys, but no, I'm not going to pass through anonymous comments about saggy pants or EBT cards or Obama or whatever other crap you feel like sputtering about today.

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Someone writes a thoughtful post about a serious issue and you respond in a childish manner with personal attacks.

You're acting no better than the trolls here Adam and as the site administrator should know better.

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Even before this comment, I was already seeing the black-on-black-crime crowd showing up with comments. You don't see those since I'm deleting them as fast as my poor fat fingers can go, but I want to head off further such comments (not that it will work, but, deleting comments is actually really easy). The fact that this poster did put some thought into his comment, rather than just copy-and-pasting from some Howie Carr thread, is why I did approve it.

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Appreciate that you described a little of the "behind the scenes" work on this blog Adam. There's a reason that reading UHub is frequently an enjoyable experience - there is work that goes into filtering out the crap that usually dominates the comment boards at the newspapers and such. Letting the comment above through is a good thing because, as you said, it's an articulate voicing of this point of view, regardless of whether you agree with it or not. All the other stuff you filtered out is derived from this argument but voiced far less clearly (and far more annoyingly) - so thank you for putting the time into weeding that out and leaving the nugget to be debated.

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It kind of deserves saying, Adam. I mean I know people who have been railing on social media for weeks about racist white police killing black people, and many of the same people now seem to think it's hilarious that the rapper Bobby Shmurda is arrested on murder charges. They can't seem to see why holding these two views simultaneously is ridiculous, so maybe it bears repeating.

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Because the cops and some idiot rapper are one and the same.

Hint: one group is systematically violating civil rights and paid by the community while acting like thugs, the other is acting like a thug.

Flag on the play: false equivalence. 10 comment penalty. First down.

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hint: if you're going to pretend that you really care about young black lives ending prematurely, care about the ones who aren't killed by cops, too. Personally I hate cops AND hypocrisy.

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They are similar in certain ways.

Some kids aspire to become cop, some rappers. I personally would persuade my child away from the later, not so much the first.

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For a guy who's angered by profiling you seemed certain the problem that causes police-involved shootings is young black males.

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But you lumped him in with the angry white guy crowd, why? What did he say that was offensive? That's not really fair, just because he didn't totally agree with the average viewpoint on the board.

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You can't have a discussion about urban crime and enforcement without discussing racial aspects of the same.

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Don't confuse me, either deliberately or not, with a hackneyed, stereotypical 'angry white guy' (is that the same as the angry black woman stereotype?)....I have little in common with a Infiniti driving senior law or accounting partner and living in the Back Bay or Weston. I have not had a privileged life or upbringing. If you claim to be 'progressive', and claim you are offended by stereotypes, you would help your cause better if you yourself didn't engage in using blatantly bating language and stereotyping.

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So I'm not accusing you of anything. My Angry White Guy comment refers to the stuff that only I'm seeing - the comments that are posted anonymously, which go into a queue, where I have to look at them to decide whether or not to let them go public on the site or whether I just use the Plonk checkbox.

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I think it's vitally important for the progressive movement to welcome all points of view to the table as long as they are presented with respect and sincerity, affording dignity to others, and free of blatant and blind hatred. Silencing a particular viewpoint with ad hominen attacks, dismissiveness or in a humiliating manner can have a negative affect on moving this country from a right-of-center nation to a more classicly liberal, forward thinking, open minded society. Such verbal attacks can and do push a potential political ally in to the waiting arms of the Howie Carrs and Fox News stations of the world who are all to willing to validate and exploit who we might refer to as The Angry White Guy but who consider themselves just an Average Joe.

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And, sorry, I'm not about to start posting the stuff I'm deleting, but we're not talking calm rational arguments. Anybody who wants to get a taste, however, can certainly call up any Herald article about crime in Roxbury or about Obama, etc.

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I've read them all: YouTube, Yahoo, even CNN. The mere mention of Obama, Fergusen, gay marriage, or Muslims prompts vile and disgusting comments that make me weep for humanity but don't let that hatred color your world. Thoughtful disagreements and respectful debate are something to celebrate. Thank you sincerely for your dedication and hard work.

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Perhaps its time to stop explaining yourself. Thanks for moderating this site. The racists have infected comment sections and it is disgusting. Why allow them a platform here? Let them take it elsewhere!! Yes, they are ANGRY WHITE GUYS!! Women too. ANGRY WHITE WOMEN!! They don't get a pass. See how they like their new label!!

Guess they don't like stereotypes! Perhaps they will stop using them!!!

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I didn't realize that "progressives" we controlling the conversation.

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that I disagree with you here, Adam. I understand your response but reading the post, I don't see anything carrying the oft-seen Herald spittle and froth that comes frequently in these discussions. As someone who reads these stories with interest and concern and as a longtime "bleeding heart liberal" I think that we're doing themselves and others a disservice when we don't allow and encourage honest, respectful discussion. I just don't think the post warranted that response--didn't fall remotely into the Obamaphone saggy-pants category.

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He must be angling for a new position. No way he goes on the offensive about BPD in an open forum if he is staying in the DA position. Completely alienating the BPD will not serve him well.

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Offensive?

Against?

Good heavens you are a tool. The cops are also citizens ... not an occupying army at war with citizens.

You attitude needs a serious adjustment. They work for us. They are us. Improving their attitude is very important for improving service.

Get yours adjusted, too.

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Alright, so that means cops should act differently in these neighborhoods because the background likelihood is higher for incidents with guns/violence/etc.? Young black men are more likely to have a gun and use deadly force due to their involvement in gangs and/or drugs, so cops should ratchet up when approaching a situation with young black men involved? They should shoot first and ask questions later because the fact is that a young black man might shoot first at them?

Is that your conclusion after laying out all the facts about how and why young black guys murder more often than any other combination of demographics? Because you've "looked at the facts", you've suggested causation for why those facts are what they are which is besides the point of the forum that was held, and you've tried to ally yourself to them by suggesting you get the same treatment so maybe it's not about race...but you haven't exactly told us what any of it has to do with the disproportionate use of force by cops when it comes to interacting with the black community.

Is your conclusion that proportionate use of force is warranted because of the facts you've stated?

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Would you carry yourself in the same relaxed manner in Mattapan that you would in Beacon Hill? No. And neither should the police.

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I have friends that live near Talbot Ave. I've even sat on their front stoop handing out Halloween candy all evening while cops constantly rolled by. It was no different than when I gave out candy in Coolidge Corner. I occasionally drive through Uphams Corner with my convertible down at night on the way home. The other times I go down Heath Street past the projects.

I used to work in East Baltimore. I would buy lunch at the local market. Someone broke into my car once in the employee parking lot. It didn't change how I acted.

My high school was close to 40% black, about 3x the national percentage. Maybe that's given me a different outlook on race than you. But I don't worry about going to Mattapan, Dorchester, Baltimore...

I don't fear for my life when I'm in a high crime area, because I know that the likelihood of being a victim is still pretty low. You see, most of the people, black or otherwise, living in Mattapan don't have a gun and aren't out to get me. The sooner you (and the cops) figure that out, the better we are.

Funny you bring up Beacon Hill. The last big murder spree to happen there was carried out by *literal* Caucasians from Cambridge, not blacks from Mattapan.

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I grew up in Sourh Philly and my high school was similar to yours. So congratulations, but you're not the only one who grew up in a mixed race community. Why are you lefties so sanctimonious and presumptuous ?

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...so (insert cliched insult here).

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There was no presumption. You approached me with the class/racially loaded question of whether cops should act differently in Back Bay versus Mattapan. I didn't have to presume anything. You answered your own question. You stated that cops should act differently in those locations. I disagreed and laid out exactly why I disagree with your statement. My only presumption was that you have the capability of learning from your past experiences if you truly grew up in a situation that taught you there's no reason for cops to pull over a black man in Mattapan any differently than a white woman in Back Bay. My apologies for assuming better of you.

Also, sanctimony requires hypocrisy something utterly lacking from my statements.

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All the politicians who got elected in the city on platforms of being tough on crime are now soft on crime. These same politicians will call their local district and demand the police do something about gangs, panhandlers, drug dealers, prostitution, traffic etc and when the police do something the response is straight out of the movie Casablanca ' I'm shocked to find out that young men are being stopped by the police'

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How is questioning the police about shootings not tough on crime?

Especially if it helps local communities work with police rather than fear any contact with them for fear of their lives?

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These are crimes?

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Are serious concerns for many black residents, especially elderly ones. They complain to their politicians or the police, and the police and politicians try to do something about it.

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“I don’t know what the law is, [...] Conley said.

Fer cryin' out loud, aren't we the taxpayers paying you to know what the law is?

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I think that got lost in the translation somewhere.

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I think he meant to say "I don't know what 'the law' you're referring to is," but he dropped some of the words.

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State Sen. Sonia Chang-Diaz asked Conley if he would support legislation banning racial profiling.

“There’s no place for racial profiling. I’m with you on it,” Conley said.

“Thank you,” Diaz said.

“So you support the law?” someone from the audience called.

“I don’t know what the law is, but I support no racial profiling,” Conley said.

Chang-Diaz is proposing legislation. An audience member called it "the law" instead of "her bill." Conley clearly used the audience member's word instead of pedantically reminding him/her that it had not yet been passed by the state Senate and House of Representatives and signed by the Governor.

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