Woman punched repeatedly by man who wanted the cab she was getting in

Mr. Magellan reports on an incident that happened as he was getting out of a cab at Tremont and Park Saturday night:

[T]wo girls were about to get in. Then two guys came up and tried to steal it from them. One of the girls just got in the cab and one of the guys called her a "disrespectful bitch" and then proceeded to lean in the backseat and punch her...hard. I couldn't see where/if he landed any punches but no doubt that girl would have been really hurt. His friend started messing with me but luckily I wasn't about to have any of that. The other girl got in the cab as the two guys were threatening me and then the cab took off. The cab peeled out and the guy chased it to a red light, where the cabbie had no choice and just ran the light.

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And this is why every woman should carry pepper spray

And be trained to kick a guy in the junk. As a man, I fully endorse the right of any woman to kick a guy in the nuts if the guy punches her. It's a sensitive area, ladies. You can't reason with the unreasonable. Some (expletive) thinks it's acceptable to punch somebody smaller than him, hit him where it hurts. Defend yourselves.

Pepper spray

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I've read that in Massachusetts, you need a weapons license (gun license?) to carry pepper spray. Have there ever been reports of people using pepper spray, then themselves getting in trouble for having used it without a license?

CS

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CS, Pepper spray is fine. CS is a chemical weapon.

Pepper spray is not fine. You

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Pepper spray is not fine. You need to get a FID from your local police department to carry it. $25 and good for 6 years.

massachusetts doesn't differentiate that way...

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they have the same restrictions on both pepper spray and chemical sprays. the laws are are written to include "chemical mace, pepper spray or other similarly propelled liquid, gas or powder designed to temporarily incapacitate". so you still need an FID card to carry it.

How do you know the woman was

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How do you know the woman was smaller than the man?

And why should it matter? Should someone be allowed to physically attack someone bigger than them if they want their cab?

Forget pepper spray..

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I think those little stun guns would send a more shocking message to any scumbag who hits a woman over a fucking cab.

Stick with the kick

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Firearm? You need a license to carry. Good luck.
Pepper spray? You need an FID card. Apply at your local police station.
Stun gun? Illegal. MGL c. 140 § 131J.
Kick in the balls? Just good old fashioned self-defense.

Devil's Advocate

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Could there have been extenuating circumstances? Perhaps the two guys phoned for a cab and the ladies were "stealing" it? What if the ladies had stolen something else from the guys, previous to this incident? There could be back story.

(I'm not saying violence was absolutely the appropriate reaction, but maybe it was under the circumstances we know nothing about. I don't know. Neither does the guy who just got out of the cab, from his story.)

One of the girls is in the cab, the guy reaches in and slugs her, then the other girl is able to get in the cab because both guys have taken to arguing with the innocent bystander who just got out of the cab, rather than arguing with or punching the females whom their real argument is apparently with, then the cab takes off and they stop arguing with the innocent bystander and chase after the cab? Wouldn't it have made more sense for guy #2 to block female #2's access to the cab, while guy #1 did whatever he deemed necessary to get whatever he was after, be it girl #1 or the cab? Why in hell are they threatening the guy who just got out of the cab?

Just some thoughts. I'm not saying Mr. Magellan hasn't given the exact sequence of events, and I'm not discounting the possibility of the two guys being utter douchebag assholes, but just assuming that the women were innocent parties set upon by vicious guys who got their jollies punching one of them, then getting in the face of an absolute stranger, then chasing after the cab for a block, seems somewhat strange, too.

Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com

So, if the women were

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So, if the women were "stealing" the cab, it's acceptable to (possibly try to) punch them? Of course you don't think so, but you're stretching pretty far to make this situation sound OK. Oh wait, never mind, you said it yourself, "but maybe it was under the circumstances we know nothing about." Just wanted to be clear, punching women is OK if the situation calls for it. Gotcha. I know your point is that this situation sounds like it's missing something. My guess is, the guy getting out of the cab saw men getting into a confrontation with women and tried to step in. It's what a lot of men would do observing something like that.

Devil's Advocate is not only not necessary here, it makes you sound ...probably not how you'd like to sound.

In So Many Words, Yes

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Just wanted to be clear, punching women is OK if the situation calls for it.

Male or female, if someone ATTACKS FIRST, then retaliatory violence MIGHT be an appropriate reaction. It always depends upon the situation. We know NOTHING about what transpired prior to Mr. Magellan arriving on the scene.

Please note: I have never punched a woman in my life. I am not advocating violence, in any way. I'm just saying that we don't know any more than what Mr. Magellan has told us, and that story seems to have a few holes in it that I'd like to see filled before I rush to judgment. That's all.

My first reaction would probably have been the same, to come to the defense of the women. But we, and he, came in in the middle of the story, whatever it was, so to blindly assert that the men were wrong in all of their actions takes a big leap of faith.

Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com

Not in the eyes of the law

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If someone punches you and you punch back without making an attempt to flee, that's not self defense, but fighting. That'll get you thrown in the same holding cell as the person who threw the first punch.

If you happen to be a man hitting a woman in that situation, good luck in both the cell and at your court date. Judges and cellmates tend to frown on that scenario... stubborn social mores being what they are.

This "Law" stinks

Why can you not defend yourself and be free of any legal trouble? Who the hell said it was more acceptable to lay down and take a beating? If I'm walking down the street and someone attacks me, I want the right to blow their arms off with the biggest rocket known to man (hyperbole there). I'm sick of criminals being defended and victims being persecuted.

I'm sure somewhere there is good documentation explaining why this is. Does anyone where such a document is located?

FYI

I want to point out that the law is a little bit more nuanced than this. You can defend yourself if it is necessary to do so. You can’t escalate the situation (legally). If someone punches you, you cannot take out a gun and shoot your assailant, for example. You can only use deadly force if deadly force is being used against you. (You can also use deadly force to fend off a rapist). You do have a duty to retreat if it is safe to do so. The courts take it on a case by case basis.

Also, there is no duty to retreat in your home. Massachusetts has a stand your ground law.

If you are charged with a crime, it will be up to a judge or jury to decide whether or not you used an appropriate amount of defense.

See, as clear as mud.

Clear as mud is right

I'm certain people have been killed by punches. I guess the question then becomes how do you define deadly force?

You are right

And how are you to make these judgment calls when you are being attacked? Because you are right. You can be beaten to death. (BTW - I am not advocating violence. I am just trying to point out that law looks at the situation on a case by case basis.)

Deadly Force

This comes up with police officers all the time.

I was watching Southland the other night and saw something similar to this where a female cop was basically beaten to within death by a larger man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jjW3DlzaRw

Both used very poor tactics, but it shows you that there are many factors when it comes to when you can use deadly force or not. Size of the person, the ability of the person to hurt you, any weapons available, your own fatigue are all factors that come into play when dealing with deadly force.

In police terms, deadly force is:

The officer reasonably fears imminent death or serious bodily injury to him/himself and or another person

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