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Man beaten, stabbed at South Boston market; an hour later another man found stabbed nearby

UPDATE: The more seriously injured man, Edwin Santos, died; two now face murder charges.

A man was taken away in critical condition following a beating and stabbing around 5 p.m. at Bell's Market, 246 Dorchester St.

Boston EMS Incidents reports that about an hour later, another man was stabbed around the corner from the market on E. 9 St.

On Friday night, a teen was stabbed on Gates Street, about three blocks away.

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Comments

but according to the "old southie", it's all of us younger newer types that are ruining the neighborhood.

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You wonder why we can't stomach your type. How about some compassion for whoever lost their son!

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I agree that the poster could have had more tact, but it is still true. i moved to the neighborhood just over a year ago, and I have been harassed on several occasions for no good reason. once, while walking my small dog (not a toy dog, but this a--hole probably didn't know the difference, and not that it should matter). Another time, while simply parking my Jeep Grand Cherokee (it's not like a BMW or anything, people!), which apparently "in the old days would have been set on fire", according to this dipsh--. The reality is, some "old school" Southie natives feel threatened and are responding in anger with threats. They are sad, pathetic, angry people. They should look to the South End story and realize that change is going to do wonders for their neighborhood in the long run, and they could be a productive participant and real beneficiary if they would just start to change their ignorant views and bad attitudes. Young professionals bring money, which brings investment and business, which brings jobs, which brings tax revenue, which brings better schools and higher property values and safer streets.

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they're sad pathetic people? Im from southie originally, and i dont think that we need people representing southie, that make us look like ignorant trash,..but they feel threatened, because we have young upper class, (yuppies) moving into our neighborhood, trying to force us out, and trying to make us feel inferior, to the rich little college kids from upstate new york.

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i don't make you look ignorant... you do that to yourself. my post doesn't address all Southie natives (and what exactly qualifies as a "native"? 2nd generation? 3rd generation?). Re-read my post. Clearly, I wrote "some" Southie natives (who sad, pathetic, etc.). If I thought this neighborhood were so bad, I would move. That's what is great about America: freedom of mobility. Growing up in a particular town or neighborhood doesn't hand you God-given rights to certain lands. I grew up just an hour from Boston (in MA, not Upstate New York), in a very unassuming town, in large lower middle class family. I applied myself in school, paid (and am still paying) my way through college/grad school, and then happened to take a job in X industry that pays me Y amount of money. Now, I live in Southie, and for the record I mostly like and get along with people who live here. I actually like that is gentrifying, with more diversity in languages, races, economic situations, etc. than many parts of Boston. I'm not trying to "force" anyone out. I'm trying to live my life like everyone else.

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I don't think so. No one is trying to force you out. Stay if you like! If you can't afford it anymore, don't blame the new people for moving here. Blame the neighbors, friends and family that you grew up with for selling their 3-familes to developers who flipped them into "luxury" condos. They didn't seem to mind reaping the rewards of an influx of young professionals who want to pay a premium for a condo - or better yet, if they didn't sell, they probably paid off their house years ago and are renting out the basement level for $2K a month, pure income. A lot of people on the gravy train.

It's easy to blame the new people that come here that can afford it. You don't know them, you don't relate to them and frankly, you just don't care. And that's fine. But it doesn't make what you say true.

Also, since when is going to college a bad thing? Upstate NY has a lot of colleges, but a lot of them are state schools - so the people coming out of them probably aren't little rich kids. I bet a lot of them are saddled with student loans and they're paying them off by commuting from the wonderful neighborhood of Southie to downtown where they work for a paycheck. Yeah, those people are terrible.

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I'm not from Southie originally; I came here after the Marine Corps, and have loved living here ever since. The dark side of saying that gentrification improves neighborhoods and pointing to the south end as an example is that this is not what Southie is, and the higher property values and taxes are actively forcing the Old Southie out of their homes, preventing many of their children from settling here, and is actively changing the neighborhood feel that is part of the Old Southie fiber.
If you idolize the south end, move there. Southie is not the south end, and the beauty of Boston is in the heterogeneity of her neighborhoods. If gentrification is going to make south ends out of all our neighborhoods, well, this isn't good.
Blaming Old Southie for problems is neither intelligent nor constructive. Those of us who have the privilege of living here should do well to respect those who grew up here and whose families helped create the Southie that we now love. Have respect.

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Jim - first of all, thank you for your service. Now, respectfully, I don't believe this is a "respect" issue. It's about living in a country where we uphold a greater ideal: choice. Southie is not a gated community: people are free to come and go as they please. Higher property values favor those who have money AND those who already have homes in the area. If you don't already own a home here (or won't have one passed down by your parents/grandparents), then you should move to an area that you can afford. It's not my responsibility or yours to make every neighborhood and house/apartment affordable to everyone. Now, we do have subsidized housing (I live close to Old Colony), and I am a proponent of having it in limited quantities to promote diversity, but I don't think it should be the block-to-block norm. It's incredibly impractical and unaffordable (yes, our tax dollars help fund it... and i pay 30-35% of my wages every year) to turn all of Southie into a subsidized housing development. If you can't afford the rising real estate taxes, rent/sell your place to someone who can and use that money to buy/rent a more modest home within your financial means. Not everyone can and should own a home, and not everyone can and should own a home IN SOUTHIE (or Back Bay, or the North End, or wherever). Trust me... I don't idolize the South End. I could have lived there but chose to live in Southie instead. I merely point to the South End as an example of how neighborhood change can be a good thing. The South End used to be a dilapidated, crime and drug infested war zone. Look at it now. Can anyone really argue that that neighborhood is worse off now? And I would argue that the beauty of Boston is not in the heterogeneity of her neighborhoods... cultural tribalism exists EVERYWHERE because we are a nation built on diversity, and people naturally settle with those people with whom they identify, be it based on race, religion, social interests, whatever. We don't need to protect it by saying that such and such places are off-limits to settlement by new groups of peoples. Frankly, I think fearing that every neighborhood is going to turn into a South End is unwarranted. That's just not going to happen.

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Yes Jim thank you. I am southie life long resident and for me and many like me it is a RESPECT issue. A lot of u are clumped together and a catagory that may be wrong. that memorial up m street park honoring our vets and it has become a clicky dog park. I know of more than one occasion a dog not on a leash attacked a kid going to the park our fell in holes dug up by dogs. Just a few nights ago sitting on MY stairs with my daughter a kid comes running by screaming obscenities to his friend a block away then has the nerve to question my parenting when I tell him to watch his mouth. And u do have a right to live any where u want, "cuz u have money". Southie was a once a hard working town and and everything we got came from our families or friends. We dont have the luxury of daddy's trust fund. Southie is one of the best places on earth and it sucks the way it changed into a college town. No sense of family, no sense of knowing our neighbors. A lot of us want to stay here that's why we feel we are being priced out.

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All of Boston/Cambridge has LONG been a transient, evolving, COLLEGE town because half of the city's population is comprised of students. To think Southie somehow is exempt from that reality is ridiculous. And it's not going to change anytime soon unless you start demolishing Harvard, MIT, BU, etc... so, complaining about the younger population is a pointless activity. And I take exception to people who assume that "someone like me" has the luxury of a trust fund, isn't hardworking, is disrespectful and obnoxious, takes no pride in his neighborhood, etc. None of that is the case, and those that blindly assume these mistruths reveal their own deep-rooted bias and ignorance. I grew up in a lower middle class family and paid my way through school. I work for a paycheck so that I can pay my bills. I take care of my property, including the public sidewalk in front of me. I don't throw parties late into the night or start up the lawn mower at 6AM. I clean up after my dog, watch him closely around children (which he loves), and prevent hole-digging (and he knows better)... and, frankly, if it weren't for the dogs and their owners, the Dorchester Heights/Telegraph Hill Park nearby to me would be overrun by drunk high schoolers and drug addicts. All and all, I am engaged in my community as a Southie resident. I am involved in the local politics discussions. I pay taxes. I treat my neighbors with kindness. I have hopes for the neighborhood, but it has to start with dropping the biases, the anger, the sense of property/neighborhood entitlement... and opening up the lines of constructive communication.

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JMR I have more respect for u then u know. In now way was I making assumptions about u. Just like what u think of us originals or whatever u want to call us.Does one bad apple spoil the bunch? I would like to say no but unfortunately a lot of people get grouped into catagories, which I admit I do, because not one of them had intraduced themselves to me they are having parties all times of day n night so my interaction has been negative. I respect you for taking the time to explain. No one else has.

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it's funny how you assume that everyone who moves into the neighborhood who's not "originally" from there is relying on "daddy's trust fund" Probably kind of similar to how yuppies assume everyone "originally" from southie had their houses handed down to them from their partents/grandparents and didn't actually earn anything themselves.

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That's the myth you all keep telling yourself, that we bought our places with "mommy and daddys help" . If I had a trust fund, I'd be living in San Francisco, NYC or at the very least on the Charlestown Navy Yard.

I wouldn't be walking a mile home on Sunday night after parking in South Boston, or keeping on the back of my head for all your "nice" heroine addicted children roaming the streets with knives if I had Trust Fund money.

The truth is, the people gentrifying Southie are just smarter and harder working than you are. That city job your uncle got you is easy and safe, but you ain't buying getting a $400k mortgage making $40k a year.

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Tough Guy!

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Then why u still here?

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If not, get the eff out if you think so little of our neighborhood. Douche.

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You say "Southie was a once a hard working town and and everything we got came from our families or friends", then you complain about people using daddy's trust fund to move to Southie. First off, nobody with a trust fund is living in Southie, they're in Back Bay or Beacon Hill. Second, wouldn't accepting help from your parents be the same as you saying "everything we got came from our families"? You arguement makes zero sense.

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Not having had the incredible good fortune of a fancy education does not make somebody a lesser person in any way.

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JMR, first, I don't have any animosity towards you or anyone else who fits the "yuppy" description. I agree that many of the aspects of gentrification are objectively good, and these are also important. As an economist myself, I understand that free market capitalism IS what's driving the changes in Southie, and that ultimately this is just an example of the monocentric city model meeting the amenity-value model. Here in America, we aren't keen on limiting the market too much, and I'd never advocate barring certain people from purchasing homes, and price controls on housing have nothing but deplorable historical precedents.
However, having said this, what many posts on this thread have indicated must be addressed. First, when I walk down the street, I greet my neighbors that I see, by name as often as I can. I can't count the number of times that our newer neighbors look away nervously or just mumble a response. The old Southie value here was truly caring for your neighbors and being involved enough in their lives to know when an elderly neighbor needed their car shoveled out of the snow. This is just an example of one of the critical beauties of old Southie that can't be lost as the new Southie comes in. Another example of this is in civic action. It's no secret that Southie's political power is dropping, as so many of our new or temporary neighbors don't care about local politics. Our neighborhood civic organizations are also suffering drops in membership, and this is a huge shame.

Another concern is that many of the triple-deckers are being replaced by large apartment buildings built by developers who care nothing for the old values of Southie, and who build without any regard to the neighborhood. Yes, anyone has a right to live here - as one who is relatively new to the neighborhood, I cannot say enough about how warm and supportive Southie has been to me. It was the Old Southie that received me after multiple tours of duty overseas, and it was the Old Southie veterans and the many families here with the military strong in their histories who welcomed myself and my Marine brothers here in town. I owe Southie a tremendous debt for making a very difficult transition infinitely smoother.

Of course, I'm not indicting the new Southie at all here - I'm simply saying that we are looking at an intersection of civilizations. We can all learn from each other. The Old Southie can stand to learn from some of the diversity-embracing, forward-thinking of the new generations here in town, just as the New Southie can learn from the traditions and values of the Old Southie. It's pointless to argue what's better or worse, which time period was better or worse, and which people are better or worse. We must take the best from both worlds, and move forward. Respect comes in where we must remember that this neighborhood has a tremendous amount of history, good and bad, and regardless of judgement, the new Southie is changing the ancestral home of old Southie. Move to Southie - bring your friends, but as you indicate in another post, have respect for your neighbors. Turn the music down after 11, pick up after your dogs, leash them in parks, care for your elderly neighbors, have your neighbors' backs, and value the sacrifices of those who went before us. Take a stroll to the WWII, Vietnam and Korea memorials from time to time and remember that those fallen heroes died fighting for South Boston. America isn't an abstract concept to those fighting overseas; it means family, hearth and home. Understand that this implies a legacy of custodianship passed on to each of us who have made South Boston our homes. Respect is central to all that we do here in Southie.

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Higher property values are a good thing?

Higher property values
Higher property taxes
Higher rent

Safer streets? Really? As a life-long resident I'd say just the opposite.

Since the yuppie invasion, Southie has lost the things that made it a great close-knit, family neighborhood. There are very few one-family homes anymore. Most of the old one-families have become three and even four-families, and many of those units are multi-car households which has made parking an absolute nightmare.

You very rarely see extended families living in houses on the same street or block anymore. Our own young adults looking to buy their own homes can't afford their own neighborhood so they have to move away. And now thanks to the often-transient yuppies who are moving in and causing the mass exodus, people don't even know their neighbors' names anymore.

And the new businesses? Oh yeah, they're AWESOME - especially the new(ish) bar on W Broadway, The Lincoln with their $9 grilled cheese sandwiches. They're way better than the old Brighams. And thank you very much to the yuppie hoard for prompting Amrhein's to completely change their menu. I guess there weren't enough pretentious, over-priced restaurants less than a half mile away in the South End so you had to ruin one of ours. When are you going to drive Sully's out of business so it can be torn down to make way for a new ocean front Whole Foods?

Yeah, the yuppies and their money have really done wonders for the quality of life here in Southie.

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The old Southie was perfect. It's a shame anything changed.

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The old Southie was perfect, Unless you were black. Then you would be chased through the streets and beaten,as I observed on more than one occasion in both Southie and Charlestown. I'll take it the way it is now. And if you weren't smart enough or prescient enough to see that gentrification would allow you to rent your paid for house for the ridiculous sums they get now while your tenants paid for your house in Wakefield, then it's your bad isn't it?

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A White person would/ was treated the same in certain Black areas. So please cut the crap about every White person from Boston being a racist.

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Seriously? Yuck. That's ancient old money fuddy duddy stuff.

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A black person can walk through any part of Boston without having to fear for their safety nowadays, but just how many white social justice crusaders would dare to walk around Blue Hill Ave side streets alone after dark?

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and I'm far from a white social justice crusader.

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Same thing as when my daughter went on a little walkabout recently and somehow wound up at Andrew Square near sunset. Damn right I told her to get on the train and get the hell out of there when she called to ask for directions.

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particular commits the majority of the crime, it becomes about both.

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Worse than the outback down there. Did u guys put another shrimp on the barbie?

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I bike on Blue Hill Ave after dark and have never had an issue. I even bike on the "side streets" down there after dark!

Making this a discussion about race in Boston is silly. The current Southie debate is about class. It's about privileged "kids" moving into a neighborhood that has historically been working class. I don't have a dog in the fight, but making this a race discussion (while convenient because we all know race sells in Boston) misses the actual point.

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I suppose if this conversation was about the gentrification of Egleston, then one could say that the same racist beatings happened there, but we aren't are we? And where did you see in my post that I said every white person in Boston is racist?

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The above poster longs for the days of the old Southie, I certainly don't.

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When the brie and chablis, BMW hordes take over SoBo, all the reality tv crews will flee. Then where will poor SoBo be?

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don't give yourself that much credit you are so full of yourselves you brought more negative than any positive you clump us all into a group we'll do the same for you as the ole neighborhood saying goes "if you can't take it, don't dish it out"

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It's funny, I don't see anything here to indicate whether the victim or a perpetrator were from south boston or new to the neighborhood. I've been walking back and forth to bells since I was a child and have never felt threatened or scared and one stupid incident isn't going to make me stop either. Maybe the problem isn't who was here first but people pointing fingers at each other when this kind of thing happens rather than banding together to make the neighborhood better

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Ya it is all u new ppl everywhere. When southie was all white this shit didn't happen. We had fist fights and that was it. Now people like Amy lord are getting murdered and it's a shame.

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South Boston had more than its share of lowlife scum and violence well before busing and integration of BHA projects. Yes, so did other neighborhoods. The difference is South Boston still has people like you who are unwilling to admit that your problems might just be homegrown.

How many South Boston residents did Whitey and his friends kill again? You might also want to read up on George Pratt's murder.

Oh, but Southie youths were so much better when they didn't have to worry about blacks and could just settle things with their fists! Yeah, right. In July, 1966, Edmund T. O'Brien, Southie native and father of two, was walking home with his wife after a night out. He was attacked and stabbed to death with a pair of hedge clippers, by some local youths, according to a Globe account:

Police became convinced Sunday that neighborhood youths were responsible.

They formed this opinion after discovery of the apparent murder weapon, two-foot-long hedge clippers, in a deep pit on a steep vacant lot near the murder scene.

The area is difficult to traverse even in daylight.

"They had to be familiar with the area to get up there in the dark," Lt. John Donovan, head of the Homicide Squad, observed.

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Says hello. Just because things were not reported, does not mean they were not happening.

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It was a young person who committed the stabbings. But nice try. You still are ruining the neighborhood.

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Do you know the victim/perpetrators to be old/new Southie? <blockquote></blockquote>

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Ok children, I read with amusement these silly Southie bashing posts. But, as a life long resident, I believe I have a solution for you. Want to be treated with respect? Stop your damn whining. Oh you poor put upon things. You feel harassed, intimidated, threatened and disliked. Its embarrassing to listen to you. Toughen up and grow a pair. Maybe the way you go through life, expecting everyone to cater to you is how you were treated in the fairy communities that you came here from but in South Boston, if you are going to strut around and act superior; when we all know by the way you act and speak you are insecure, you will never get any respect. You look upon us; young and old as throw backs to a by gone era. We really don't care. We don't need or want your approval. We look upon many of you as shallow, rootless, sad and lonely creatures, lacking any type of street savvy and to be pitied, who are also very much afraid. Kind of pathetic really. Trust me when I say, you will get along just fine here if you adjust your childlike attitudes, grow up a bit and again, I must emphasize - stop your damn whining. If you don't have the maturity to do this, things probably won't get any better for you. But hey, there's always the South End..

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x2

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People from a southie don't whine! ???? Are you kidding me ?

And only people from southie say hi and shovel neighbors out .. And show respect ??

Been here 15 years and trust me people from southie whine , they glare and don't say hi when I say hi first , and respect ?? Please go to one community meeting and see the level of respect that is given

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You didn't ruin our neighborhood. Our neighborhood just changed when you moved in and we moved out.

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We use to handle are problems wit our hands live to fight another day

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South Boston was never an idyllic Eden where nothing bad ever happened and where white drug addicts never murdered their neighbors until those people (first blacks, now yuppies) moved in.

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This is an obvious attempt to troll by using intentional misspellings and bad grammar. Don't feed him.

Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com

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Even know why it gets pass the filters. Let anon trolling.

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lol it's laughable how low life losers come onto a post and try to post nonsense to scare people haha, you probably got your lunch money taken in school and you're still butt hurt over it haha cowards. My girlfriend lives in Southie and we walk everywhere from her house, whether it be at noon or 3 am and I have NEVER encountered a problem. Pathetic friendless losers try to portray a hilarious picture that just isn't true. lol at the idiot whose proof that Southie was dangerous was from a 1966 stabbing hahaha moron. FYI anybody who knew whitey knew he was a rat, nobody from Southie brags about that. My friends and I play street hockey at a local court all hours of the day and night, I walk the street in slippers to go to Murphy's at the crack of dawn, never had a problem ever. Southie is quiet and humble these days.

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I've been going to Bell's for years. This isn't going to change that. I knew when I read this story the South Boston bashing would start up. It's nice to see everyone getting along! Please continue.

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Why is this site (Adam G included), the media, Hollywood, and people in general obsessed with South Boston? Every post on this site about South Boston easily conjures up the most comments and discussion (Sans bike nuts). This is also holds true on the online versions of both the Globe, and the Herald. For the most part the comments are about how South Boston is not a desirable place to live (Forget $600/sq. foot), cringe inducing attempts at humor by "new" residents, or a snarky comment relating some obscure post in 2013 to James Whitey Bulger. What is this obsession and why does it exist? I personally think its jealousy from people who may at some point wished to have grown up there and feel insignificant. Why does this phenomenon not exist about similar neighborhoods? Charlestown for instance recieves very little interest and hate, is similar in many ways (Predominatly White blue-collar neighborhood with a shady and somewhat racially tense past that is now experiencing gentrification.) Can someone explain this to Me?

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Some people in Southie seem to think the rest of us spend all our time obsessing about you. We don't.

Please note that you're bringing this issue up in a discussion about two people getting stabbed last night. In beautiful, picturesque Southie. I wrote about that because it's news, especially given how it happened three blocks away from where a third person got stabbed just a couple nights earlier. It wasn't people living in Roslindale who decided to get all racist about it and declare this never would have happened when the local punks just settled things with their fists and then those blacks and yuppies ruined everything.

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Lmao you start off by saying people don't sit around and obsess about Southie but yet HERE you are once again speaking about Southie, lol you imbecile. It's people who were bullied and mad at the world because nobody likes them that troll and talk nonsense because they're losers and mad that they still have to watch Internet porn to see a naked female. None of you clowns would EVER have the guts to say this to someone's face down here, you'd soul yourself and lie in a fetal position lol, at least then you could say you had a bad experience from Southie. Get a life.

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This is one of my favorite Southie-ism's "I personally think its jealousy from people who may at some point wished to have grown up there and feel insignificant".

Haha, jealous of what? Before we moved in the place was ghetto.

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He's just angry his roslindale pad he picked 20 years ago only doubled in value, whereas a Southie triple decker he could have had for next to nothing back then would be worth well over a million now.

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Good. Will. Hunting.

You're welcome.

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Its funny how a non southie person uses this as a platform to complain about southie people. Why dont u just move? And being from southie im not totaly against change, just dont like that brad from Chicopee meets Brenda from Connecticut at the beer gahden and the move to the burbs to raise a family. It's turned into a revolving door. And I think my own southie people sold us out so they can fufill their "american dream" and move to Braintree. Because damn if there going to pay 1650 for a half a bed room and a toilet same on them. But us locals can no longer afford to stay in the town we raised. So u have to understand the frustration. But I bet the crime rocketed up shortly after whitey left, I'll put money on that. Something about the possibility of ending up in the back of an ltd kinda scares u. Ill end this little rant with this if u want to be comftorable say hi to us as u walk by and we're sitting on our stoops. Dont cross the street before and after u walk by. Stop walk down the street at 10, 11 o'clock screaming like no one is sleeping, there is still a few kids left.

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I wish there was a dislike button.

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"Ill end this little rant with this if u want to be comftorable say hi to us as u walk by and we're sitting on our stoops"

Maybe no one says hi to your on your stoop because you're a dick. Personally, I'll just wave good bye to you when you leave.

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You're right I am a dick. And you're a douche bag so I'd call it even bro.

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And you're right, I am a douche ;-)

Maybe I'll get a vanity plate that says "SOBO DB" on my new BMW X5.

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I hope u do. Know I'll now what window's to smash after listening to your friend navigate u into a parking spot that could fit a bus. Back back back stop now cut the wheel. Hahahahahahahahahahahahabahahahababahabaha!

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This is the guy who can't figure out why no one says "hi" to him on his stoop.

I'm not worried about my new Beamer though, I doubt you live on my side of Southie.

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There u go like the goody goody that u think u are. U have no clue. Maybe I'll be seeing u =)

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Either of you dopes actually live in Southie.

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You not from here and didn't visit those parts during the time. So just stfu already.

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I think both sides have to understand and appreciate that there are pros and cons that effect both the long time natives of Southie as well as the new folks who are moving in. On the one hand, the long time Southie Natives need to recognize that gentrification has brought in more money, more restaurants, shops, business, jobs, as well as modern new housing. This has helped increase property values as well which is substantial part (or should be) of anyone's retirement plan. On the other hand, long time Southie Natives may not be able to afford their increased taxes on their property (or the increase in rental prices) and be forced to move. One poster above mentioned that they should be grateful for the increase in value and simply sell their house or rent it and move to a new location. But thats just it. They so called Yuppies need to realize that the Long Time Natives may not want to sell or rent their place but simply live in the house/neighborhood they were raised in and called home for many years. So to them, its not a good thing. And yes, parking will continue to get worse. In the end. change is inevitable, and the Long Time Natives need to embrace it or forever be frustrated and angry. Both sides should recognize where the other side is comming from...and that each has a valid point/concern,and in the end try to get a long. Whether your a new Yuppie or a Long Time Resident, get involved with your community and reach out to your neighbors. Go knock on their door, introduce yourself, say hello. In the end, we are all going to have to live together. Part of that is watching out for our one another who live on your street/block. That is what makes a community.

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EDUB, I agree with most of what you are saying. On my point about being happy about increased property values... people can't have it both ways. Everyone wants their properties to increase in value. Would you prefer that property values not increase? If they didn't, Long Time Residents would actually be losing value on their property assets (when inflation is factored in, i.e. the time cost of money). When your property value goes up, you have to pay more taxes on an absolute basis... that's life, whether you are in South Boston or some town in South Dakota. Local government sets the property tax rate annually, not the citizenry... so blaming Yuppies for rising property tax increases and then ignoring their property's value appreciation is a fallacious argument.

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old timers didn't buy houses as investments. House value didn't factor into their retirement planning. They just wanted a place to live and raise their families. In general, house value appreciate if you wait long enough (even if if you go under water for a short period of time) but the concept of making money off of a house is relatively new.

So yuppies, try to remember that when you talk about how awesome you are that you're raising the property values of houses, or should I say houses that get broken up into condos. A lot of people who have been there when my parents were kids only see that in the form of increased property taxes. It's not necessarily about Jeep Cherokees or Foodies or Stephi's.

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Whether they know it, Old Timers WERE buying houses as investments. They used a little equity and a lot of leverage to finance the acquisition of an asset. As they paid down the principal, they acquired equity. And, if the value of the property appreciated, they acquired more equity. It's a basic investing concept, and if they didn't understand that, and all they saw/see is a rising property tax bill... they shouldn't have bought the houses, frankly. I understand that they wanted the relative stability of having their own houses, to raise families and whatnot... but let's be real, the banks own the houses for many many years, and a lost job, serious health problem, deep recession, etc. is all it takes for a mortgage to become an investment disaster. People need to prepare for that, and they need to part with their possessions (and houses) if that's where life goes. But making money off a house is hardly a new concept; rather, it has EVERYTHING to do with home ownership. The Old Timers looked at the pro/con tradeoffs with renting a property (including the "intangibles"), and then they pulled the trigger. At the end of the day, they made a BIG purchase. An investment. And it remains just that to this day. No one needs to BUY a house to have a place to live and raise a family. That's a deeply ingrained American Dream lie, passed from generation to generation, subsidized year after year by the government/IRS. The fact is, home ownership isn't and shouldn't be for everyone. It's not a "right". For the record, I have a detached house that I'm going to keep until the thing falls down (or is about to) or a developer makes me an offer I can't refuse. I'm sure the supermajority of people reading this post would do the exact same thing.

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Listen, I took a few Economics and Finance classes in college so you're boring and insulting me by trying to school me in those topics . I'm a former yuppie myself and I was a smarmy little kid like you are now. So please, just stop. Stop it. Stop with the long, rambling posts about how you're making the city a great place to live. Just stop.

I don't care where you're from. I don't care where you live now. Your posts would be exhausting no matter where you live.

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Thank you.

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Nice that you can see it from both sides of the coin, I wish more people would do that.

One point regarding the term gentrification - I think that Boston is beyond gentrification now, and I'm not sure what to call it. Sterilization? Homogenization? Luxurification? It's not just Southie, but a city-wide phenomenon. At this point Southie has been gentrifying since, I dunno...the mid-90's? A decade ago South Boston was expensive, I can't imagine having the money to move there now.

This is far beyond bulldozing blighted factories, re-habbing boarded up triple deckers, and attracting monied folks from the suburbs. What is happening now (and frankly, has been for some time) is a huge social and economic shift where Boston has become - and will continue on the path to being - a home for highly-educated, wealthy folks, and then others in subsidized housing. Poor folks and working-class people who are shut out of this new paradigm will end up moving to affordable industrial cities in the hinterlands. Brockton, Lynn, Lawrence, Worcester, Fitchburg, Fall River and New Bedford will house these classes of people, and Boston proper will consist of ever-expanding universities, students, tech, finance, and the independently wealthy.

Personally, I wish this would not happen, but, I really can't see an alternative.

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* This conversation would never take place on UHub if we were talking about a "Minority" neighborhood.

* If said conversation did take place, the majority of you Lib's would have completely different opinions.

* What make's it ok to bash people from southie? Is it because their White, and your Lib White Guilt allows for such hatred.

* 90% of you act like you're taking from experience, however had never step foot into particular sections of the city prior to 1-10 years ago.

* What little knowledge most of you had/have regarding the "Old Boston" was obtained through media outlets, and ALL media outlets are bias including UHub.

* How can one comment on the condition of a section of Boston during a particular time without ever seeing/ visiting?

So please ride off into the sunset in your Outback/Prius, Boston will not miss you.

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One type reports on things that actually happen there, the same as events are reported in all other parts of the city (and even in some suburbs), The other (largely via comments not actual stories) are blatant bits of anti-South Boston trolling, usually by anonymous (and unregistered) users. Curiously many (unregistered) SB "defenders" seem unable to tell the one sort of posts from the other. I can't think of any other section of the city that treats reporting of adverse events as "attacks" on that neighborhood.

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The more seriously injured victim died.

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My best friend's favorite question:

Where you from?
-Southie
No, I asked where you are from, not where you live?
-Southie, born and raised.

Sometimes we can't even tell each other apart! Amazing! 30-something OFS's are going to raise kids in Southie who end up going to college and becoming young professionals, and 30-something yuppies will raise kids in Southie who will be OFS.

How about we stop it, the amount d-bag yuppies = the same amount of OFS assholes. Let's move past the pointing fingers and towards the place where we all recognize that NO ONE wants crime in their neighborhood and we all want a nice place to live (friendly, safe, good for families).

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It looks like the 'conversation' has strayed a bit. A kid is dead and two people are facing murder charges. I'm sure whatever the fight was about was trivial. Much like some of the posts I have read on this subject. One dead, two more with lives ruined. That's it.

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Looks like we have to acknowledge that everybody on all sides of every issue having to do with South Boston whatsoever suck.

In the meantime, as somebody mentioned upthread, somebody is dead.

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"Yuppies" worshipping gentrification while at the same time screaming diversity (gentrification tends to wipe out any ACTUAL diversity there is in the neighborhood, while there may be minorities there, they tend to be exactly the same as their white counterparts, diversity *should* (but often doesn't) mean more than skin color) suck.

Angry racist townies screaming about the gays and minorities suck.

I have little sympathy for the townies, being a Puerto Rican, they'd probably hate me, but at the same time, my family was gentrified right out of New York City, and then Allston, so I have little sympathy for their point of view too.

Both sides are awful, and this thread shows it.

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Fact: neighborhoods change.
Fact: no one cares what happened in Southie yesterday, let alone 3 decades ago, toxic as it was.
Fact: this country is literally run on supply demand.
Fact: no yuppie wants to live in Southie of 30 years ago, they want to live in a neighborhood 2 miles from downtown in 2014


Fact: no neighborhood has ever avoided evolution and survived - think Brooklyn, NY vs Detroit.


Fact: only a neighborhood can dictate the direction of a neighborhood. If you do not like where things are, and where they are headed, then maybe this isn't the neighborhood for you...regardless of where you grew up.

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All of you are fighting over "new southie" and "old southie" get over yourself!! I'm the 3rd generatuon to live in southie and no natter who moves in or out of the neighborhood its still the same ass backwards racists that have lived in southie their whole life that assume they have the right to talk shit to whomever they feel is a "threat" which is everyone who's not white and irish.

The real issue right now is the fact that a son, a father and a hell of a good friend was taking from us over bullshit!!! It has nothing to do with old or new southie!! It had to with 3 people stabbing and beathing a man to death....how about worrying that a woman has to bury her son or the fact that his daughter will never know her father... care about something that actually matter instead of fighting because no one will say hi to u when ur sittin outside....trust me NO ONE cares about saying hi to you!!!!!

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I jus want to say tht the murder victim was my cousin and he was a hard working father coming home with his kids and wife, and was attacked!!
It's pretty sad that people have such dumb ass comments about what happened or judge a person who they don't know. No he wasn't from southie but he did live there, nd yu would think people from southie would care for there own even if that person isn't originally from there, he still was part of the community regardless.

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My condolences to you and your family on the loss of your cousin.

Unfortunately, ignorant and mean-spirited trolls show up on virtually every online forum. Please disregard the ones that have shown up here.

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