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Woman attacked in the Fens
By adamg on Thu, 11/06/2014 - 2:47pm
The Hub reports a Simmons College student was grabbed from behind around 11:45 p.m. on Sunday in the Fens near Clemente Field.
She managed to break away from the attacker by screaming and struggling, causing him to flee the scene.
Simmons Police urged students to avoid the area, right in front of their campus, at night.
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Comments
Visions of "There's something about Mary"
Half naked men popping up from the reeds probably spooked the attacker too.
But on a serious note, why the hell is there a woman walking through the fens at that time of night?
I think you asked the wrong question
Why the hell is a man attacking people in the Fens?
Neither question is wrong.
Both are valid.
No, only one is valid
There isn't a curfew.
The fact that there are assholes out there who attack women should never be used as an excuse to tell us what to do, when to do it or otherwise control our behavior through fear and victim blaming.
Nice try on the social control. There aren't special rules for women. The answer to your question is NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS. Period.
Spot on, swrrly!
Spot on, swrrly!
Why does it have to be about
Why does it have to be about women? No one should be walking alone in the Fens at that time of night. Lots of sketch people there and crime. This is well known
It shouldn't be
Please read what I was replying to upthread before your patella gives you another black eye.
Your comment is absurd in that context.
I'm not victim blaming or, it
I'm not victim blaming, it is unfortunate what happened to the girl but saying flatly that someone shouldn't be there isn't a womens' issue, it's a citizens issue. The Fens at night are dangerous to men and women both.
Maybe I'm wrong but I read the context as: Jim: "What could someone possibly be doing out in that dangerous area at night?" Swirly: "Don't tell women where they can and can't go."
"woman" not someone
I understand your point about the area being dangerous for anyone, but the language in the OP specifically asks "why the hell was a woman" walking in the area. This question does not typically get asked if a man is walking at night and is a victim of a crime. That's why some of us see this as an issue of sexism/social control.
It could also be a nod
to the fact that once upon a time we all would have known exactly why a man would have been hanging out in the Fens at 11:45pm--it was always a huge gay cruising spot. So I didn't make the same analytical leap that you and Swirly did. I'd also agree that I'd question the common sense of anyone male or female who walked through there alone at midnight. Yes it's residential but it's also a wide park with a rustic wilderness landscape, not very well-lit or well-patrolled, lots of shrubbery, reeds etc. It has never been a very safe place late at night. It'd be nice if it were but until then, I'd be very wary.
Adam gave him a chance to check his comment
He doubled down.
Thats right. I did.
And I stand by my statement.
You have a right to walk a known dangerous area.
I have a right to say that's a bad idea for a woman.
If that's unPC I really don't care. But I won't be advising any of my nieces to walk the fens at night without the safety of numbers.
Id rather err on the side of safety than prove some point about having a right to walk alone in a dark park at night.
Advice
So the simple solution is to advise your nieces to never accept a good job in an area that may be unsafe after dark, unless they have friends who can escort them from office to home. Or if they are out of coffee/milk, whatever, not leave their home to got to a store until daylight, again unless they are accompanied by someone. Or walk home from the T unless you are part of a group. Try putting yourself in the position of someone who would actually have to live like that. Obviously anyone living in the city needs to exercise common sense after dark, but you are asking half the population to place safety above activities most men can take for granted.
You remind me of the guy whose child shot himself at a gun range
It was his second amendment right to give his child a gun. And you know something? He was right..
I'm sure he sits at home thinking about the day he exercised that right. Over and over and over.
You remind me...
...of someone who can't tell the difference between his jawbone and a shovel. You're just digging yourself deeper, son. Better stop while you still have a chance to climb out.
So
by your logic, you approve of the father giving the child a gun, because it was his right to do so? And I should be able to take a stroll through the Bromley Heath projects at midnight because it's convenient for me and it's my 'right', no one should dare question my judgement? BTW, for the sake of argument, I don't look like I belong in the projects, and look like an easy target.
Nice you and a few others on here are encouraging everyone and their little sister to hang out and take short cuts through (fill in the blank) after dark, early AM, odd hours when few others are around, because it's a God given right as an American and citizen of the world; will you all be there when some naive, gullible soul takes you up on that advice and ends up jumped, beaten, robbed or worse? And I don't mean using such an 'outrage' to march in candle light vigils or protest the 'War on Woman'. There are some duplicitous individuals who look forward to 'outrages' because it affords an opportunity to further a political-ideological cause.
Police ARE NOT everywhere, and ARE NOT personal bodyguards.
"They also reminded students
"They also reminded students that several serious crimes have been committed in this area lately and for students to avoid it at night."
That would make sense
Your reply is misplaced, however. Read up thread before commenting, please.
Swirl: You give women a bad
Swirl: You give women a bad name. You are an absolute bat shit crazy lunatic who thinks everything has to do with you.
I read the thread. I don't excuse the behavior of the scumbag in question.
The bottom line is that we live in an imperfect world. If you put yourself in dangerous situations, you become more likely to be a victim.
Please up your dosage and go take a nap.
Oh please.
If you think one person gives half the human race a bad name, you're the one in need of a meds adjustment. Now leave yourself alone for a while.
You couldn't be further from the truth
Swirls is a smart woman who doesn't take BS from anybody, and who has a low tolerance for idiocy.
I, for one, find those to be attractive character traits.
Really?
But then again, some people are into getting pissed on, so I suppose finding narcissistic personality disorder attractive wouldn't be that strange either.
You've got it all backwards
Funny how when women, in particular, reject stupidity and challenge illogical restrictions they are somehow "pissing on someone".
Even though the reality is that we are simply refusing to be pissed on.
If you want to diagnose a personality disorder, perhaps you should take a self inventory.
I should take medical advice ...
From someone who doesn't even bother to read what I replied to.
Right.
Stick to your day job, honey. Or go post on Mercola or one of those vacuous antivax websites with your magic prescriptions for well-being.
Better yet, take your "terrified little boy compensates by playing macho control freak" act somewhere else.
Valid questions
Is it also valid to ask, why the hell was a woman walking in the Arboretum this summer, in broad daylight, when she was raped at knifepoint? Following that logic, women should never leave their homes unaccompanied. An attitude awfully close to the mindset of ISIL, et al.
"An attitude awfully close to the mindset of ISIL, et al."
If you think that I wouldn't want to bump into you in a park late night, friggin nut.
I wouldn't want to bump into you in a park late night, friggin
Well, great, one less person to worry about if I am walking outside late after dark (which it is right now).
Don't worry
You won't. He's too afraid to leave his house.
So what's the difference?
Really, if you think a woman should not be able to walk through a park in broad daylight, what's the difference? American Taliban...
You may wish to live in a perfect world
But I reside in the real world. A world where I, as a man, will avoid places that I know to be unsafe.
If you want to hang out in dangerous places at night to prove a point, knock yourself out.
"Dangerous places at night"?
So let's think about what you're saying, Mr. Man Who Lives In the Real World (unlike all the silly unrealistic women).
I work less than a block from the McDonald's that got robbed via shotgun last night. It's between my workplace and the nearest T stop.
It is now pitch dark outside. I have another 20 minutes to go until quitting time.
If I walk to the T -- the only way I'm going to get there -- am I "hanging out in dangerous places at night to prove a point"?
For that matter, why do you characterize any woman who goes out after dark as "hanging out", or as trying to "prove a point", when you have absolutely no information to indicate that she's not simply trying to get from point A to point B?
And with all your lies and mischaracterizations and distortions, you have the crust, the colossal gall, to say that you "live in the real world". How can you say such a thing and lie your ass off the way you just did?
Oh really
I'm 5'3" tall and I have walked through that area late at night many times, probably before you were born.
I have also biked home late at night from places like MGH and Mission Hill, alone, because my lab work needed tending and feeding at odd hours. This was back when those places were massively more sketchy - and my standard response to patronizing gits like you was "well, I don't have my husband with me so I'm much safer, statistically".
I also biked right through the area of Charlestown where someone was shot a few hours later.
NOBODY HAS EVER BOTHERED ME. You got that.
Oh, wait, somebody did once - A cop with your patronizing attitude. That's the only person who ever insisted on stopping and harassing me on my way home.
So, tell me about reality and the real world, again?
Good for you.
You have never been attacked.
I'm sure the woman who was attacked in the fens can take comfort and solace in that while nursing herself back to health.
All the while thinking ...but this never happened to SwirlyGrrl.
Errr....
...so what IS your point, exactly?
...
A lot of people have walked through those areas alone, myself included. Nobody bothered me either. Some people get lucky - some are not so lucky. I try to avoid walking there at off hours if possible - a lot of other people do too b/c there are crazy people out late at night and we read stories (such as this one) about what can happen late at night. It's called taking precaution when possible.
Do you ever re-read your posts? You really have some attitude - I've been coming to UHUB for years and you have one of the worst attitudes I've seen on here. Not sure why that's necessary, but good luck with that.
I really don't care
... what you think of my "attitude".
I'm not a decorative doormat, and I have fragile tolerance for people who make factually-deficient, illogical, or patriarchal statements and then insist that people who call them out as such are unfair, are "unladylike", are "pissing on people" or "have a bad attitude".
As for real life, this attitude has taken me a very long way indeed ... from the trailer court to MIT to a PhD to a comfortable life as a scientist. Those things simply do not happen to nice girls who accept their economic, social, and gendered place.
Always so defensive.....
I didn't ask whether you cared I just made an observation. Just so I have it straight - I routinely advise my female friends not to walk alone late at night if they can help it....I usually tell my male friends the same, and I try to do the same. Does that mean I'm trying to keep anybody down or keep them in a certain "place" or anything like that? I guess it's trying to keep women down and make them into "doormats" if people mention to them they shouldn't walk alone at night if possible. Very confusing.....
I am a consultant at a number of biotechs and know many scientists/PhD's who don't have your attitude, but then again different approaches for different people. Good luck.
"defensive"
Another passive-aggressive, intellectually dishonest pseudo-debating tactic. You've got quite the repertoire, don't you?
Nah
Your friend is always extremely defensive. No special tactics here as you described, I just call 'em as I see 'em
It is irresponsible of you to
It is irresponsible of you to suggest that people should not take some part in providing for their own safety in an urban environment; and instead rely on the police and the court system for protection. Your position flies in the face of common sense although it is a good sound byte.
If people should not take common sense precautions, what must you envision as a police policy that could offer protection? I'd guess that it would be an environment with wide-spread surveillance cameras and a lot of more police; most people would rather not live in that world and instead would rather cultivate some street smarts for their own good.
Plus, in the event of a terrible assault victims should now that justice doesn't exist in most cases for the victim. Sure society may catch and imprison the perp for a few years but that does little to restore the long-lasting harm that the victim may feel; although you may feel that with imprisonment of the criminal the victim is made right.
On a more trivial crime level, I'd recommend that everyone make the individual effort to lock their cars at night rather than relying solely on the police to prevent auto theft.
Why the hell is a man
Because he's a criminal intent on doing something evil. As much as we'd like for people to never do evil things, there are always people who will still do evil.
Secluded places with poor lighting are a great place to do something evil. You can do your evil before people realize you're there, and they can't identify you after you do whatever evil you have in mind.
If he jumped somebody in broad daylight in the middle of Kenmore Square, say in front of the bank where all the cameras are, you'd have a more interesting question. But, we'd also probably already know who he is and have him in custody.
You're missing the point.
Instead of scolding women, for exercising their freedom, to walk whenever and wherever they want...we should be scolding boys and men, for the violence and harassment they commit towards women.
Shaming a woman for walking alone is ridiculous.
This is where this argument always goes off the rails
Nobody here thinks hiding out in the Fens and attacking unsuspecting women in the middle of the night is a good thing. Everyone here wants criminals like this caught, tried, convicted, and sentenced. I can't see what scolding all men would help.
Some people here think walking alone at night in the Fens is risky, and feel that it would have been nice for her to have help at her side when she faced that attacker. I can't see that as an unreasonable position.
Why does it freaking matter
Why does it freaking matter what her gender is? The same shit can happen to anyone in that area.
Your right, but sociopaths don't listen to scolding
>we should be scolding boys and men, for the violence and harassment they commit towards women.
The people who do this sort of thing don't listen to scoldings as they're sociopathic scum who don't care about society's norm and don't care about the women or men they harm. They lurk in places where they can easily prey on those weaker than themselves. Scolding them won't affect them, all you can do is jail them, or give E and hope they feel some empathy for others.
>Shaming a woman for walking alone is ridiculous.
Yes your right, it's not her fault, it's the scumbag's fault.
And what would you do with the answer to that question?
So, if she were to answer your question, what would you do with the information? Let's try to imagine a possible outcome:
"Oh, you had to work late and you didn't have any transportation to get home? That's terrible! I'll help right away, by working to get public transportation that runs at that hour and that will get you close enough to be safe!"
Is that what your reaction would look like? Or would it be something more like:
"Oh, so you thought you would be safe, walking down a public street? You thought you had a right to walk down a public street? What an idiot you are. Rather than blame your attacker, try to help you, or try to make the situation better, I'll just pretend that I can't think of any reason on earth why a human being might want or need to use their legs to get from here to there, or why a human being would be unwilling to submit to some kind of curfew that deprives them of freedom of movement. I'll just shake my head sadly and cry crocodile tears while I secretly get my enjoyment over berating someone who's already been victimized."
So what WOULD you do with the answer? Because if you can't or won't say, you really have no right to ask the question.
Well said!
Well said!
BU used to have a number you
BU used to have a number you could call and they'd send some student volunteers to walk with you if you thought it might be unsafe. Maybe Simmons could look into that.
They have it. She may not
They have it. She may not know about it
I walk throughout the city at odd hours
Going to and from work, to catch a train,etc. I will frequently cut through areas that are 'sketchy'. I'm a guy, can take care of myself, and it doesn't bother me, although I am well aware of my surroundings. The VAST majority of other human beings I encounter aren't 'scary' dudes, almost all are women, mostly young women,mostly young white college age looking women. I'll be honest, I always say to myself they are lucky I'm not a bad person, a rapist, serial killer. And I always keep a wide berth and make sure there's PLENTY of distance between me and these omnipresent young college age women. They make me more nervous than some homeless schizophrenic giving me the evil eye or some 'sketchy' dude.
USE FRIGGIN COMMONSENSE people. If you are a particularly vulnerable person BE CAREFUL WHERE YOU CHOOSE TO ARBITRARILY TAKE A WALK in the dead of night, early AM, odd hours, when few if any other people are around. A PARK or any isolated place certainly should be avoided ar certain times, yes, especially if you are a woman and can't effectively defend yourself. I'm a decent guy, but there are bad, very bad, predators in this world, and many are pretty slick and know where to troll. If you don't have to go to or cut through (fill in the blank), don't.
So half the human race is
So half the human race is "particularly vulnerable"? What's wrong with this picture? What's wrong with your mindset?
Because a person should be
Because a person should be able to walk around a residential neighborhood at any time of day or night. The park is in the heart of a neighborhood and by no means should be a scary no go zone.
Again
The whole world SHOULD be a nice happy place with no "scary or no go zones". This isn't candy land. It's a fucking city. The sooner you accept that the sooner you'll be better off.
"nice happy place"?
Candy land? Nice happy place? No one's asking for that. You're just being an apologist for a shitty situation, because you lack both the imagination to understand that things like this don't just happen to silly self-destructive idiots, and the compassion to care about anything that isn't direct skin off your sanctimonious ass. It'll only sink in if and when you're feeling the pain personally, and if you think that can't possibly happen to you because you "accept" that the city isn't "candy land", you're deeply wrong and achin' for a breakin'.
it's a fucking city and some of us fucking work in it
Chip on your shoulder much? Your aggression is off the charts relaxyapsycho. Have you noticed that it gets dark before 5pm now? On average people get out of work after sunset at this time of year. That includes women. Women have to walk through the fucking city after fucking dark to get to their fucking homes from their fucking jobs. It's not an invitation for fucking idiots like you to spout off your vile crap on the internet that somehow we're asking for it. The sooner you accept that the sooner you'll be better off.
Might want to just stay in Andover or Franklin
Or wherever the hell you are, since you are so terrified of cities, young people, etc.
At the very least, stop projecting your night terrors and boogyman fears on everyone else. Just because you are afraid of the world, doesn't mean that I or anyone else here is required to be.
A person born and raised
in rural Washington state is lecturing people in 'Andover' about urban living? You've commented repeatedly on uhub regarding suburbs and suburban people in sarcastic tones, what is the genesis of your hatred and contempt for suburbs and the people who live in them, if I may ask? This question is coming from someone born, raised, and who has always lived in big cities. I suppose this makes me somewhat of an expert on big city life, and I find many of your comments on this subject dubious. That includes this fens topic.
To get to the other side
Seriously. Look at a map. (There's a handy one right at the bottom of this post.)
If you are on Huntington Avenue, and you want to get to Kenmore Square, or the Regal Fenway ciema-plex, or the restaurant row on Peterborough Street, you're going to walk through the Fens. Doesn't matter what gender you are.
Oh, don't be silly. If you
Oh, don't be silly. If you're female, you're supposed to walk twenty blocks out of your way. Or pay for a cab with magic money that you have because you're female. And if you don't, you're just an unrealistic, self-destructive idiot who wants to live in some kind of ideal world.
Or maybe call a friend to
Or maybe call a friend to walk with you? Use the buddy system. It's a big scary world out there -- remember to hold hands and look both ways when crossing the street.
Won't be your friend for very long
If you keep calling them to come out and walk with you after you get off of swing shift.
I used to work in the
I used to work in the computer labs in that area and i was often there late at night after i closed the lab to go home. Why does it matter?
Yikes
Regardless of sex, I wouldn't recommend crossing through UHub after dark. The lack of civility in this thread is really off-putting.
Attacked in the Fens
I am a 67 yr old, 5ft, woman of pallor, who has lived in Cambridge, Boston and Brookline for most of that time except when I was in Chicago for a few years. I love Boston and was glad to leave Chicago behind.
I was mugged once in Symphony station on my way to school at the MFA by a kid who held a knife to my neck. Another time my cat alerted me to a man trying to climb in my living room window on Bigelow St near Central Square Cambridge.
I am street smart. I know which streets to avoid. I know which streets to walk down the middle of. (Oh dangling particle.)
I know where not to live.I know where not to walk. And that is the Fens after dark.
Making believe that it is ok for girls to walk through there so that you can be a big feminist is reprehensible. It is dangerous for women to be walking through the Fens, Copley Square, Boston Garden or Common after dark.
To suggest otherwise endangers the girls you pretend to want to protect.
Social control doesn't solve the problem
And accepting limits on where you can live, work, or walk because our society thinks that controlling women is the answer to violence against women endangers women and girls a whole lot more.
The problem is violence. It affects men, too, but making this a "women shouldn't" issue does not solve the problem, now does it?
Broadening that to males doesn't solve the problem, either.
Sorry Swirl
"because our society thinks that controlling women is the answer to violence against women endangers women and girls a whole lot more."
I don't know what that means. I was trying to say that I have been living in cities for 67 years and during that time I have made it my responsibility to protect myself. Which I have done.
It affects men, too, but
This was the point everyone was trying to make, this isn't an issue of what women should and shouldn't do.
So what do you suggest
to someone at the MFA School, or Simmons, or Northeastern, or Wentworth, who wants to enjoy a movie at the Regal Fenway, or have a nice meal on Peterborough Street, or shop at Best Buy?
At 11:45pm?
Think twice about it. Doesn't mean don't do it but as I posted earlier on this cuckoo-bananas thread--I'd urge caution and extreme alertness in this area late at night for anyone, male or female. And stay out of the gloomy, isolated areas. Personally I'm baffled by this premise that women should be able to be as free and unconstrained as men but somehow without any risk or danger. To choose the freedom, one has to acknowledge the risk--otherwise yes, you might as well stay at home in the parlor. I'm very glad that this young woman was able to stymie her attackers.
Yes, at 11:45 pm
Probably not a time of day to go out to a movie or dinner on a 'school night', but a perfectly reasonable time to return from one.
(And as we get on towards Christmas, even some retail stores may sometimes stay open that late.)
Edited to add: I'm pretty sure that the Fenway Star Market is open at least until midnight and maybe even 24 hours now. Which is another good reason someone might be walking around there at 11:45 pm.
We all make those judgement calls
every day, as best we can. And we all know that things can be crazy and unpredictable. But would I be walking through any part of the Fens at midnight except on the well-lit outer edges? Nope. Again, maybe just my fixed perception from growing up here of it being a creepy place with a murky, sexual bent--there is no place in boston where you see as many used condoms as the Fens!--but no. I don't blame this woman at all--I'm for the freedom AND the risk--and I'm glad she was able to escape harm, but...be careful, people.There are wolves out there in the woods!
Don't get out much?
...or are you strictly limited to the 1 pm matinee? There's nothing unusual at a movie getting out at that time.
I do, actually.
But hey, props for the high-school snottiness and sarcasm--it really advances your arguments and makes for a useful discussion.
I'm rarely out alone late at night but as someone who travels exclusively by bike, foot and pub trans, I try to be hyper-aware of my surroundings. A late movie? Yes. Cutting solo through a poorly lit area next to an urban swamp where three bodies have been found recently? No, thanks. As I wrote earlier, we all make choices and calculate risk, but to demand or expect complete safety everywhere at all times is just plain foolish.
It's a Sally thing...
...to try and call out others for the failings of which she's most guilty, most especially ad hominems, strawman arguments and unwarranted judgments, which you don't seem to be able to write a sentence without. Tell me, how well are you acquainted with that neighborhood? I lived there for ten years, so I know it rather well. What exactly is someone "cutting through" when they're walking down a street? And where exactly do you get off claiming that anyone "demand[s] or expect[s] complete safety everywhere at all times"? Once again, you're using intellectually dishonest tactics to try to attack the victim. Typical Sally.
Defensive much?
Sorry--I didn't realize that you took this stuff so personally OR that you were so hazy on the definitions of "ad hominem" "straw man arguments" or "intellectual dishonesty." But really--please feel free to point out where you believe I've been guilty of any of these things. Oh--or "attacking the victim." Really--I'd love to see a quote where I did that and not just some more screechy drama-queen BS. And thanks--I've lived in the city of Boston my whole life and went to school in the Fenway for four years so please don't waste my time with your faux street cred crap. And really...you get really over-emotional in these posts and over-invested in attacking someone you don't know. Maybe take yourself to a movie, ok? A nice rom com?
Take a friend.
Take a friend.
No, attackers are reprehensible.
It is OK for women to walk when and where they want.
It is not OK to attack women.
It is not OK to dictate where and when women are allowed to walk.
It is not OK to put restrictions on a woman's movement.
It is not OK to try and control women.
It is not OK to shame women for walking alone at night.
Where do you see any of your commandments being broken here?
Have any posters here even suggested doing any of these things or condoned the attack in some way, or said that the attacker is *not* reprehensible? We don't even know that this was a sexually motivated attack and from the beginning of this thread the repeated theme has been that this is not a particularly safe area for anyone. Suggesting that a woman not walk alone at midnight in a dark woodland is not "restricting her movements"--it's common sense. No one is "dictating" "controlling" or "shaming" here--Boston is not Iran or Saudi, though honestly the hyperbole here reminds me of those Okies who are convinced that Obama is about to institute Sharia law.
Sweet Jeebus!
Are you really trying to convince me that walking through Copley Square at 5:00pm in December is too dangerous for a woman?
Five is probably ok
But after dark it's better to walk the perimeter. Stay on the streets where there are other people and open shops.
5 pm is "after dark" already
and even more so a month from now.
So, basically, you don't know
So, basically, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Pedantry
She's clearly talking about after the square has cleared out from typical daytime bustle, once it's slowed down, and it's dark.
This place really attracts the overly argumentative crowd.
Are we talking about the same Copley Square?
Where in Copley Square are you ever more than twenty feet from a busy street? The whole place is lit up like a Christmas tree 24/7. Sorry--not making fun but it's the last place in Boston I'd ever feel unsafe.
Well...
Not so long ago.
True but...
a notably strange event! Again...you never know. It's like that daylight rape in the Arboretum--in a well-trafficked, typically low-crime area. It makes it doubly rattling when things are really outside the norm. Generally though I would call Copley very safe.