Why does the Blue Hills Reservation need a replica of Fenway Park?
By adamg - 8/5/08 - 7:22 am
Not a clue, but apparently, a bill before the governor would let a developer recreate the baseball field in what is supposed to be (at least, I thought) a bucolic nature sanctuary. Background info on the field.
Comments
That's just not right
People are insane with the baseball, here. Enough, already! Of course, anyone opposed to it will be accused of not liking the Red Sox and cut off from their friends and family forever. Or even worse, accused of being a Yankees fan.
It's just one of those quirks one has to put up with here, I guess.
oh please
Im not a proponenet of them sneaking this project in, but to call an area of Quarry hills next to an auto auction a "bucolic nature sanctuary" is crap.
Well, if that's the case
If what you say is true, they may as well build it. I used to go to Blue Hills when I was on that side of the city and what I was imagining was not cool.
Other neat things can probably be done with old rock quarry hills, though. I still think we're going overboard with baseball. :)
"bucolic nature sanctuaries"
"bucolic nature sanctuaries" rely on buffers, and this is a retarded chomp out of that. Regardless of the auto auction next door, if the property is within the sanctuary boundary it should be absolutely disallowed
50% of it is a gravel
50% of it is a gravel parking lot right now. and it is not much of a buffer. Again, I think the way this is going down sets a bad precedent...but lets not overstate things.
hmmm
the gravel parking lot didn't build itself. And look who's filled it with cars!
Recovering Land
Oh, I see. Land that has been thoroughly abused, but recovered for the public commons and designated for return or remain in a natural state is fair game if it doesn't do so quickly enough?
Is this sort of like " of course she's a fallen woman after being attacked - it's fair to use her again"?
of course not. The probelm
of course not. The probelm I have is the embellishment of referring to the place as a bucolic sanctuary. I don't intend to say that it can't someday return to its natural state.
I most certainly want to vomit at the whole concept. I mean they are selling license plates to support a replica of a sporting venue. I don't get why its necessary. I wouldn't be suprised if the place will be used by kids from the richer suburbs and high-priced corporate events will be held there. All to make a private developer some money.
But its location is not pristine wilderness. Don't kid yourself.
Not pristine ...
So what? This gets turned into a huge complex and then the land around it is no longer pristine and that gets developed and then ... and then ...
No wonder land use planning is such EPIC FAIL in these parts ... when every triple decker isn't a shrine to the past to be protected in perpetuity, all is merely a land bank for future development at the whim of connected forces.
Take a deep breath
Take a deep breath CrazyGirl. I am not saying that they should develop it. I just was taking issue with the classification of the land. It could be called a buffer to a bucolic landscape or whatever.
I still don't understand why the rmv is involved here. This private moneymaking project has somehow been spun into a public benefit. A better benefit to the public would be preserving the land.
No, more like
Hitler already gassed the Jews, so now it's okay to remove their gold fillings.
I think there should be a special corollary of Godwin's Law for (fill in the blank) is just like blaming a rape victim.
SwirlyGrrl never disappoints
Man, I didn't see that one coming, but I should have!
It's messed-up already?
It seems like that's the core argument here: that the developers want to build there because too much has already been done to what WAS the woodland edge of the Blue Hills Res. along Ricciutti Drive (look at the map) to matter anymore. It's now had a gravel lot carved out of it, so let's carve out more and build a nice ballfield.
I'm not familiar with the other MDC parks nearby, and I love baseball & want kids to have a nice park- but why not just renovate another park or something? Probably a no-win situation here.
forested protected land
The 11 Acre parcel sure looks like forested protected land from this aerial view. Claims about the unworthiness of the land to have an undeveloped reserve status seem untrue and self-serving for development advocates.
Notice what's across the street,an 'MDC Ball Field Parcel' What, we need one public access ball field on one side of the street and one for-profit ball field built on Blue Hills Reservation? That's give the expression, "we're in the ballpark, alomst" a new meaning.
The legislative and review process for approving the lease doesn't pass the smell test. It was fast tracked and circumvented normal review.
You have to ask, how is the use of this land by private developer in the public interest? And why do they need 11 acres? That's a lot of acres of reservation land for profit. Does anyone know the terms of the lease? Will they replant all the trees they raze when the lease runs out? Apart from the public/private use of Reservation land, were traffic and environmental impact studies done?
Who cleared the lot in the middle of the 11 acres and under what authority? Quirk is using it.
FULL VIEW
I dont disagree with using a
I dont disagree with using a "polluted parcial" of land for a ball park, but I draw the line when you take private land and privatize it.
Also there are already so many Fenway replicas out there. Couldnt somebody use the same amount of money and build an original looking baseball park that has some architectural elegance to it. Why do so many ballfields within striking distance of Boston look like Fenway park? Fenway Park is Fenway Park, your kid can play their if they are good enough to become a professional or if Fenway was to hold special events for the state finals or something (something I think they should do more often.) Looks like fenway (kinda) maybe smells like Fenway, sounds kinda like Fenway , Im thinking its a dissapointment.
evidence the 11 acres is polluted
There's no evidence the 11 acres is in any way polluted but if there was, the Commonwealth should track down the polluters and hold them accountable for the cost of cleanup. Not lease it to an amusement enterprise.
Parcel is real estate developer speak for marketable... can be bought or sold... for profit. Qui bono?
Im not saying its polluted
Im not saying its polluted thats why I used these "" Im saying that even if it were I dont like giving a developer land that is part of a larger reservation that belongs to the state so they can build a private amusement ball park, regardless of how much they are paying.
I see
Thx.
Development Pressures
There are several businesses who would like to get their hands on chunks of the Blue Hills reservation. These and other "just a few acres" of public lands will be under siege if this is allowed. Does anybody know what the status is for the function hall that is trying to eat several acres to expand their business? Once it gets nibbled and chopped up, well, why not get this stranded parcel and sell it too?
This seems to be a largely quiet but steady grab for public lands at a time that the DCR has been all too accommodating to potential buyers for various bits and pieces of public lands. While some sales make sense - scattered, odd, and developed properties in their portfolio, this ballpark marks an attempt to buy the Commonwealth's birthright for a mess of pottage. What happens here has serious consequences for public lands across the state - including the Middlesex Fells, Breakhart, and the Emerald Necklace.
Lantana
The latest on that project.
Another look from above
Where will Quirk park their cars when the building of mini-fenway starts?
I'm still curious to learn how the approvals were obtained for clearing two acres of trees to build a hidden parking lot in the middle of Blue Hills Reservation.
Ridonculous
I mean, Look at this thing! They actually think it's important to build all that stuff outside of the actual "mini-field?"
Does that mean people will need to crawl on their hands and knees up the mini-ramps to the mini-right field roof deck, where they can sit in mini-seats? Will there be a mini-Game On where the parents can go and drink shot glass-sized beers before the game, or just stay throughout the game, watching it at the bar on 6" plasma screen TVs, heads tilted so as to avoid hitting the ceiling?
Or maybe they could walk across the street to the mini-Cask N' Flagon and watch the mini-game there.
Seriously. You want to build a little league park, fine. But this is just way over the top.
And will it have a little red triangular sign next door?
Heh heh, Ron
Yeah...they need to have a mini Citgo sign nearby. And a mini Prudential tower as well, that reads, in very small letters through the windows, 'GO SOX.' But since it will be so mini, there will only be enough room to project 'GO SO.'
And we'll also need mini traffic jams along the street, comprised of Matchbox cars, inside which small figurines flip off the people who are on their way to the game.
What is this?
A baseball park for ANTS?
Seems like
This won't just be a field, but something more similar to the Aberdeen Complex that Cal Ripken, Jr. opened in Aberdeen, MD. The Blue Hills one won't be as big (Aberdeen has 3 replica fields and a Class-A minor league field), but it looks like they want to provide a good place for tournaments and possibly training camps in New England, not just a field like you'd find at an athletic association or random playground.
Why Here?
If the goal is to construct a regional facility, one would think that Worcester would be a more central location.
They dont want to be in
They dont want to be in Worcester for the same reason all of us arent in Worhcester
I would be in Worcester if ...
I had a sales territory or a business that involved traveling or shipping stuff around the bulk of New England.
The Boston area in general isn't terribly well located if you are coming down from NH or VT, or up from CT or even RI
I know alot of regional
I know alot of regional sales people and they all live near Boston because Boston happens to be the epicenter for people in Massachusetts. The population blooms out from Boston to the West, North and South. Worcester puts you on the Western border of that bubble and is only more convenient if Somerville and North Adams counted for the same number of average sales visits (Im gonna guess 99 percent of the time they do not.)
New England not MA alone
The population center of New England is pulled strongly by Connecticut. The land mass cuts To the south and west, pushing that population centroid to the West. Springfield and Worcester have better access to points South than Boston does.
You would be correct if this were about Massachusetts, but this was stated to be about New England.
Field of Little Dreams
That's easy, Swirly.
If you build it, they will come.
They don't call Boston the Hub of the Universe for nothing.
Why public land then?
It isn't that some large parcels near to highways don't exist. Isn't there a stranded parcel of about that size that Boston and Dedham were arguing over? This former grocery distribution center?
I think it might settle the issues of utilities, school funding for condo residents, extra roads, etc.
That deal is dead
Dedham didn't think it was getting enough money for its piece of the land - which is completely unreachable from Dedham, save by air or train - so it basically refused to cede the property to Boston, without which the developer couldn't put up all the apartments he wanted to, for a variety of reasons (from fire protection to schools).
I doubt that developer would
I doubt that developer would sell that land in Hyde Park/Dedham for this purpose.
Ayup
They're still hoping to put something up that's a bit more remunerative than baseball fields.
True, but ...
The existence of the parcel, which has similar attributes to the 11 acres at issue, attests to the lack of necessity to privatize public lands for private enterprises such as this.
In other words, there is land to be had elsewhere. If that land is "too expensive" for this purpose, then it underscores that what this guy wants is essentially a public subsidy.
Have you ever considered
Have you ever considered running for public office?
vote
Would you vote for Swirrly Goldie?
She has a keen mind for framing the issues and I tend to agree with her conclusions. I don't think she'd be interested in suffering fools however and that's in the job description for politician. Nah, not public office, but public policy aide.
But will they sell
tiny pink hats at the tiny souvenir store?
SIMPLY AMAZING
They need multiple three-story brick buildings surrounding a 50% scale Fenway park FOR KIDS T-BALL???? That's complete bullshit.
And financing is a public/private deal where some of the dough is from MA vehicle registration plates.
The deal was done in 2004. Could it be Romney had a hand in privatizing Commonwealth public resources to benefit his cronies?
Reality
No, Little League, not T-Ball.
Also, they'll likely hold training camps, regional tournaments, and other events there more than just a random game every so often. You won't make a dollar with just a field and a concession stand. The idea is to have a complex where people want to send their kids for periods of time to learn and play baseball.
See my above links to Cal's Aberdeen Complex. It gets primarily positive reviews and people pay $300-$1200 to send their kid there for lessons and other events.
Little league, T-Ball,
Little league, T-Ball, baseball camp, what does it matter? I could be Olympic bob sled and I'd still have the same objection. If it were Olympic bob sled, you might too.
It's your passion for baseball that overwhelms your sense of reason on this issue. How long have you had this condition? You know the Red Sox won the world series. You can let go now.
Besides Baseball is so 20th century. It's boring. More and more kids are forgoing baseball to play other spring sports, like lacrosse. Kids like lacrosse because it's fast and high scoring.
That said, even is the plan was to build a lacrosse field/camp with supporting money-making office park and retail surrounding it - sure sounds like a ruse to me - I would still object and for the same reasions.
What I do admire about baseball is the discipline to not make errors. Beside that, baseball can be a little boring.
Why should this guy gets an infusion of public funds and a sweat heart lease of MDC RESERVATION LAND for the price of a lease so he can compete with Dan Duquette who runs a baseball camp in the western part of the state?
Like Tonto to the Lone Ranger: How?
Slow your roll, Kemosabe. How do you know my stance on this project at all?
Nothing I've posted has been anything but information about why someone would build buildings associated with a ballpark.
How do you know my stance on this project at all?
You could clear that up.
Gimme a sec to take your words outta my mouth first
I haven't taken a stance on this project. I see pros and cons for doing it and not doing it. Regardless of my stance, you decided to rip into me for what you assumed was my stance as pro-stadium. I shouldn't *have* to "clear" anything up except now I have at the least to undo what you've already declared to be my position.
not you
You misunderstand. I am not ripping into you, I am ripping into arguments made to support this enterprise, some of which I incorrectly attributed to you as your position.
That said, you shouldn't *have* anything to "clear" up... unless you want to. At any rate, I hope you don't feel like I created extra work for you.
It sounds like your distaste
It sounds like your distaste for traditional American sports may be making your own judgement foggy. While I agree with you on the stance that it shouldnt be built you seem to be harboring some hostility to baseball, which seem to me is still quite popular around here (Im a football guy, I think baseball is sooooo boring, but nothing seems to grab a kids attention and grips it for longer than baseball, I dont know why.)
Lacross is fun and the kids enjoy it but its not baseball. Its incredibly hard to break into the American psyche when it comes to sports (ask soccer) and by the time other sports do break into our greater culture this field (if built) will be obsolete anyway and would need to be remodeled. Soccer is fun at the lower levels and has a high publicity in the high school scene but is still a joke at the national level, and how long has that sport been trying to break into scene?
I may have some bias about
I may have some bias about sports and I readily admit I find baseball boring but I don't agree that my bias or favor for one sport over another is central or even related to my concern about PUBLIC RESERVATION LAND development.
I would object to the development of this RESERVATION land for any sport, even sports I love.
I think you may be missing another point here. If you look at the developer's plan you'll see, this facility is not just about baseball. It is about acquiring land for an enterprise - baseball is the publicly popular gambit that sells the deal.
I had a great experience playing sports. I encourage kids, who show an interest, to participate in sports and I enjoy watching them grow as they compete, socialize, learn how to enjoy their accomplishment and learn how to respond to failures. Sports can be a good vehicle for learning.