Log in / Register All Boston UH only

A man and his windmill

Chuck Donaldson is the man who wants to build a windmill right at the top of Millennium Park in West Roxbury. When I first read about his proposal, I wrote NO!!! Donaldson invited me up to the park to try to convince me to support the idea.

Donaldson wants to put a 200-foot wind turbine (125 feet for a 16-foot-diameter tower, topped by a 75-foot blades), at the far end of the park, away from the parking lots, down near a dropoff that goes down toward the Charles, just past the soccer fields. This assumes the winds are right and he gets all the approvals he'd need.

Donaldson, a retired GE engineer, says that point is uniquely situated for wind power - winds coming off the Charles River plain hit the "wall" that is the park (a 120-foot high former landfill), creating an updraft that should pass right where the windmill would go. There are already high-tension power lines running along one side of the park, so it would be easy to feed the electricity into the local grid - to help power the nearby West Roxbury Education Complex and the VA hospital, he says as we stroll along the path that circles the soccer fields at the top of the park.

One of my objections was what the windmill would do to the view - Millennium Park is that rare Boston location where you can get a 360-degree view of the surrounding terrain. Donaldson claims that from the parking lot at the top of the park, the windmill would appear no higher than the Needham radio/TV towers you can see, or something like this image (I took a photo of a Hull windmill and stuck it on a photo from the Millennium Park topmost parking lot):

Doesn't look quite so bad, although obviously, the closer you get the larger the thing will loom. What about kite flying? Donaldson, who makes kites himself - including research kits for the Blue Hill weather observatory - said the blades would turn slowly enough that he doubts a kite would be damaged even if it hit one of the blades, although he said it's possible a blade could cut a kite line.

Now, obviously, Donaldson isn't just going to show up one day with a crane and a windmill. First, he wants to make sure West Roxbury residents agree with the idea. On Sept. 23, he goes before before the West Roxbury Neighborhood Council, an city advisory group (7:30 p.m. at the West Roxbury police station at Centre Street and West Roxbury Parkway). If they say yes, he has to make sure the site would actually work for a windmill. He plans to bring up a balloon and some monitoring equipemt to see what the winds are actually like up above the park. There might be wind eddies or other factors that would rule out a windmill. Even then, he'd probably want to build a 30-foot structure for testing before going to 200 feet.

He says he'd set up a non-profit concern to raise funds and actually build the tower. He'd also have to get permission from the city Parks Department to build the windmill. But not more:

"I don't envision this ever becoming a wind farm," he says.

And once the windmill is up? He'd like to experiment with geothermal - using the heat and methane naturally generated by decades' worth of trash at the site - to make electricity. Ideally, he says, he'd like to cover the "wildflower" side of the park (the slope that goes down toward the canoe-launch road) with solar panels, although he allows people might object to that, so he'd settle for a much smaller solar-panel area. Then there's using the windmill at night, when demand is low, to pump water up from the Charles to "low profile" storage tanks at the top of the park so the water could be released during the day to drive turbines.

But his ultimate project, which he's already begun prototyping at home, is generating electricity with kites. The idea: Take two kites, connected by a single string wound around a turbine. Set them to flying, one higher than the other, and then let the lower one go up higher. The string would turn the turbine, generating electricity. Reverse their positions periodically and repeat ad infinitum.

After spending some time with Donaldson, well, I'd be willing to consider a windmill at the park. He seems sincere and well meaning:

"[Millennium Park] is one of the reasons I've stayed here," the Kentucky native says. "I love this park."

But I'd be very concerned about turning the park into a large green-energy lab. It's amazing that one of the worst places in the city - a giant trash heap - is now a recreational gem, where you can do everything from flying kites to kicking soccer balls to wandering along paths through woods and along the Charles River. Stony Brook Reservation, where parts of a forest have been replaced with a skating rink and baseball field, shows the dangers of nibbling away at green spaces in the city. Perhaps there's a compromise though - somewhere between a great park and an energy farm/laboratory.

I think I had been for it

By ShadyMilkMan | Mon, 09/22/2008 - 9:06pm

I think I had been for it before, but now you mention former trash heap and I have reservations. I wonder how deep his pilings will have to go to keep that windmill steady on a pile of garbage?

why do you care how deep the pilings would have to go?

By anon-a-mouse | Mon, 09/22/2008 - 9:17pm

What difference does it make? It just would mean an increase in construction cost. How does that effect you, is this coming out of tax dollars?

No, it's not a question of cost

By adamg | Mon, 09/22/2008 - 9:36pm

Well, not for the taxpayer, at any rate. But darn, I should have asked him that question (arrgh!) because, yes, this is a hill made up of roughly 110 feet of trash and a few feet of clay on top of that, so not the best platform for something heavy. In fact, during the 2004 DNC, when Boston put on a party there for all the dinky states and territories (Alaska, Hawaii, Guam, etc., but with Fred Willard in attendance!), they couldn't have a barbecue for fear of a lit briquette rolling down a pipe into a methane pocket or something.

However, a windmill isn't that heavy, I'm sure there's an engineering solution.

Because Ive seen projects go

By ShadyMilkMan | Mon, 09/22/2008 - 9:39pm

Because Ive seen projects go forward then come to a stop because they ran out of money. Its also of interest to me because they may get approval then find they cant put it where they wanted to and then have to move it someplace else , at which point the public already stopped paying attention and had their say, and things end up in bad locations. You may have to big a bigger base, or you may actually have a windmill falling over if not done correctly. Before you tell me it wouldnt fall over take a look at the new high school in Lynn (The new Classical if memory serves me correct) where the inside is sinking very fast compared to the outside so the floors are cracking, the foundation is buckling and the facade is coming off the school.

ALSO more pilings , in the best case scenario, mean more drilling for more extended periods of time. The drilling would be noisier and more obtrusive AND you would have to worry about polluting the park with what was in the ground.

Im not saying no windmill, Im just saying there are questions that need to be answered and I am less gungho about it now then I was before. If I recall I was rather bullish about it before.

relax

By anon-a-mouse | Mon, 09/22/2008 - 9:48pm

this would never get built without qualified structural and geotechnical engineers on board. The one in hull is built on a landfill as well if memory serves me correctly.

why not?

By Anonymous | Mon, 09/22/2008 - 9:44pm

If he's got funding to build and later dissemble and dispose of the equipment, why not let him do energy research in his retirement? It's decent use of public land and energy is important to our future. I don't see an individual making great gains but you never know. You think the MDC would give him a tower on Blue Hills? Nope.

Here's some video. One is about a energy company installing windfarm in PA. The locals asked questions and got bullshitted. They aren't happy.

The other video shows how four-footed wildlife aren't disturbed.

Yet another about noise, and another about municipalities granting companies a permit to build towers on resident's land.

video

video

video

video

Windmill suggestion

By EM Painter | Tue, 09/23/2008 - 11:31am

Is this going to be one like in Hull, or one like the IBEW windmill on 93 south coming out of town?

The Hull wind turbine is huge, and I think it's visually awful, not because of the size necessarily but because of the speed of it. It's so big it's like having a double 747 spinning three times a second in the air over your head. It's so fast that you can't really follow the blades, they kind of jump around in your brain. It's very disconcerting.

My aesthetic objection to these wind turbines is that they are too big and too fast for the horizons they occupy. This is more for Cape Wind, but might apply in Millennium Park. We see a horizon and for us it looks like infinity. In fact it's not, but visually we need that kind of view now and then. When you put a moving object on that infinity, it cuts the scale back down to the actual and so you don't get the comfort of looking into the distance.

My suggestion for windmill people is that they make the windmills slower and more ponderous, so they move like massive objects rather than propellers.

It would be nearly identical to Hull 2

By anon-a-mouse | Tue, 09/23/2008 - 11:50am

And I think that would be lovely. Id doesnt turn too fast. I find wind turbines, espcially solitary ones wo be works of art.

The IBEW one is tiny and is more of a billboard than a wind turbine.

"...is tiny and is more of a

By Anonymous | Tue, 09/23/2008 - 12:23pm

"...is tiny and is more of a billboard than a wind turbine." picture

More info on the IBEW wind turbine.

Training Center

By SwirlyGrrl | Tue, 09/23/2008 - 1:07pm

When they put that turbine up, I figured it was partly to advertize electric technology (requiring electricians, of course), but also for training people to work on turbines. It is at their training center, after all.

Hull Turbines? Huge??

By SwirlyGrrl | Tue, 09/23/2008 - 12:59pm

Honey, these are big:

And THIS
is huge!

Hull might as well have wooden blades and some blue delft stuff going on next to these spinners!

Making them slower and more ponderous for visual reasons is self defeating, unless you think coal-fired power plant pollution is romantic in that "hazy shade of winter" sort of way.

My reaction

By anon-a-mouse | Tue, 09/23/2008 - 1:02pm

And the reaction of many others I know to the Hull turbine is more of awe, curiosity and inspiration. My only gripe with it, and this would fade over time, is it causes folks like myself to take their eye off the road.

...My only gripe with it,

By Anonymous | Tue, 09/23/2008 - 1:50pm

...My only gripe with it, and this would fade over time, is it causes folks like myself to take their eye off the road.

Which is probably why you confused the scale of the wind turbine with the size of a billboard... "is tiny and is more of a billboard than a wind turbine."

(No subject)

By Anonymous | Tue, 09/23/2008 - 1:56pm

And...

By anon-a-mouse | Tue, 09/23/2008 - 2:31pm

The IBEW one is a total height (blade+tower) 150 feet, which is about that of a transmission tower...or a billboard down south. Cute graphic.

or a billboard down south.

By Anonymous | Tue, 09/23/2008 - 2:52pm

or a billboard down south.

That's the comparison I don't recognize. The 150 foot wind turbine and a billboard.

Its a twofold comparison

By anon-a-mouse | Tue, 09/23/2008 - 6:17pm

Take a trip down 95 through the Carolinas someday, you will see what I am talking about. The point is that it is small for a wind turbine. It has 5% of the capacity of Hull2 which isnt an exceptionally large wind turbine itself. It was not installed to bring significant power to the grid, but rather to serve as an advertisement on the highway...a billboard.

I-93 in Medford

By SwirlyGrrl | Tue, 09/23/2008 - 9:24pm

Check it out on google maps street view - the billboards in South Medford are about the same size as the IBEW turbine.

Yep. Thanks. MAP

By Anonymous | Tue, 09/23/2008 - 9:34pm

Yep. Thanks. MAP

no...

By anon-a-mouse | Tue, 09/23/2008 - 2:27pm

You apparently lack reading comprehension skills. The Hull one is distracting in all of its beauty. The IBEW one is the size of a billboard. Get it straight.

Try watching the the blades sometime

By EM Painter | Tue, 09/23/2008 - 10:17pm

I mean stand and try to get your eyes on a blade and watch it go around. You can't.

None of these pictures works because they are all still images.

We have an idea of the scale of things, and defeating it I think is emotionally disconcerting. Everything you see that size will move in a way that reflects its weight. For instance when you watch a really big airplane take off, you can see it go from a thousand ton object, and then the massive force it takes to lift it into the air.

So when you stand on the shore and look out at the sea, you get the sensation of looking at infinity, as if you looked hard enough you could see France, when in fact you're only looking 12 miles out to sea. I think that emotionally however you are more at peace by the sensation of infinity.

Wind turbines don't move in a way that is related to our concept of objects that size. I think that if you put them on the horizon you will shorten the horizon and eliminate the emotional effect of looking into the distance. It's the fact that they move that makes them more shortening than say a cargo ship or a tv antenna on the horizon.

Now I'm just a painter, but if I am right I don't see why the turbine makers couldn't just increase the resistance so when the blades turn a shorter distance, slower, they generate more power.

Wouldn't work

By Kaz | Tue, 09/23/2008 - 11:52pm

Now I'm just a painter, but if I am right I don't see why the turbine makers couldn't just increase the resistance so when the blades turn a shorter distance, slower, they generate more power.

Adding resistance would force a greater minimum wind speed to begin turning the blades making them less useful. They also wouldn't create more power by slowing them down. The transition isn't from wind speed into mechanical power. The turbine spins an electric motor that would make less power by turning slower.

If you want an infinite horizon to make yourself some how more emotionally enriched, you're just going to have to turn 45 degrees and look in a different direction. Or find a different shoreline. Your argument for messing with a wind farm's engineering because of some sort of pure internalized aesthetics you have with them is pretty vapid.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.