Dorchester ACORN offices torn apart
By adamg - Thu, 10/16/2008 - 3:52pm.
The Dorchester Reporter reports police are investigating a break-in at the offices of the community-activism group at 196 Adams St. in Fields Corner sometime late yesterday or early this morning:
ACORN Massachusetts' head organizer Noemi "Mimi" Ramos arrived at the organization's offices in Fields Corner Thursday morning, Oct. 16, to find the front door unlocked, three desktop computers missing, internet and phone lines ripped out of the walls and general disarray. ...
Yes, it's the group that John McCain last night accused of trying to bring down American democracy.
Location
Burglary
196 Adams St.
DorchesterUnited States
42° 18' 8.4456" N, 71° 3' 35.9784" W
Palin and McCain will own the violence they incite.
Palin and McCain are inciting the faithful by telling them that ACORN is trying to steal the election. Acorn registers people to vote. ACORN reported that a few thousand bogus names were submitted.
The outrage about ACORN is told at rallies just as the McCain/Palin argument that Barack Hussein Obama is pallin around with terrorists.
It's not race-baiting per se, it's religious and ethnic baiting. McCain has joined in with the "that one" comment. It's part and parcel of the politics of destruction.
We hear McCain and Pallin supporters yell "Kill Him!" and "Terrorist" at their rallies. This break in at ACORN in Dorchester is the least of our worries if McCain and Palin continue with their hatred-inciting political strategy. Palin and McCain will own the violence they incite.
Palin supporters answer the question "Is Barack Obama a terrorist?" VIDEO
siiigh
We hear McCain and Pallin supporters yell "Kill Him!" and "Terrorist" at their rallies.
One or two media sources reporting hearing it, but couldn't produce any witnesses, and the Secret Service investigated their reports, but couldn't find any witnesses.
Not saying it didn't happen or that McCain and Palin rhetoric isn't frightening...
Oh, for Christ's sake
Why don't we wait to see what the police say before concluding that Fields Corner is overrun with fascist Republicans or something.
Barack will own the violence he incites
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/24/mccain.sticker/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
Just sayin...I don't really feel taht way, but you know a lot of people I know worship the guy like he was a prophet.
Made up shit
A likely story. Even Michelle Malkin thinks she's made this up. What, the guy who supposedly held her down and scratched her face is dyslexic or something to do this backwards? Or is she just dumb and she did this herself in the mirror and forgot she had to do it backwards.
The Po-po think she's making it up too. They're giving her a polygraph, "because her statements about the attack conflict with evidence from the Citizens Bank ATM where she claims the incident occurred."
Sorry for the pol post
Here's the difference:
Obama campaign's statement on the attack:
McCain campaign's statements on similar situations:
Yeah, he took the mic away from the old confused lady who thinks Obama is a muslim terrorist, but where oh where did anyone in his campaign release a statement condemning this psychotic fervor?
If you find me one, I'll stop believing you are a retarded asshat, although you take the opportunity to slander Obama without reason. McCain and Palin earn all the criticism they get. Obama deserves some too, but not in this regard. You're SOL kiddo.
I agree that this lady is full of shit
I just thought it was funny. With regards to calling me a retarded asshat, well lets just say you need to grow up a little.
The post was tongue in cheek my friend. To say either candidated "will own the violence they incite" is ridiculous.
At least we agree on that
Well, I never made a claim that anyone owns the violence they incite; the phrase is not in my post and I did not claim to support anyone else's assertions.
And it's true I need to grow up a little; I'd never claim I have reached my peak maturity. I do apologize if the personal attacks were out of context, I may have misinterpreted what you were attempting to assert. Maybe you were just fighting fire with fire. But I think there's a material difference worth noting in how the campaigns react to similar events. The silence of the GOP speaks volumes.
Its all spin
Both camps will do underhanded things, both have spin machines, neither will accomplish what they promise and when the economy fails to improve in the next 4 years both will blame the previous president.
I think you are looking too deep into what I consider non-issues. I don't think that either camp should apologise for this kind if garbage. I will agree that it is a different reaction, but it was an easy apology for Obama to make because any knucklehead can see that he is not guilty of anything here. It is cheap PR that doesn't cause any negative backlash. I don't feel that McCain should be apologising for anything because I don't feel that he has done wrong. He has done the same thing that all politicians do while they are campaigning...theyre slinging mud. If he starts apologising for that, he just looks wishy washy.
All I really care about is economic policy. Both options are too left for me in that regard. I don't care what mean things they say to eachother. That is nonsensical garbage to get caught up in, imo.
The reason they get into this stuff is because the average Joe can't seem to wrap their head around real issues. Obama's economic policies sound great to the average Joe, but they will hurt business and the average joe will feel it in ways they can't easily see. The economy will lilely continue to sputter, but just like FDR blamed it on Hoover, he will just blame it on Bush. But hey you got a $1000 tax credit. Woo-hoo!
Ok, adam I promise I will stop being the anti-Anonymous after this.
She lied.
"A Pittsburgh police commander says a volunteer for the McCain campaign who reported being robbed and attacked near a bank ATM in Bloomfield has confessed to making up the story. Police say charges will be filed. More details to follow."
Reminds me of To Kill A Mockingbird...
All I really care about is economic policy and social justice. To that end, there is a bright line difference in these two. And I don't think anyone can say for certain that nothing will change under Obama, or even McCain, because what people say and do can be different (not always a bad thing).
I am all for social justice in the truest sense of the word
But giving tax credits to those who pay no taxes is not social justice. Thats stealing from the taxpayers and giving it out to those who did nothing to earn it. If they deserved more money, their employers would pay them more.
Babble re: Taxes
Well, it is a trait of America to redistribute wealth through taxation.
Your assertion about the credits sounds prima facie unreasonable, but I would have to see the details before taking an actual stance on the question.
If you mean this:
I'm not against that. It sucks being poor. I don't wish it on anyone, so I generally support tax code changes that try to lift people out of poverty. If people in this category think they are better off being in poverty and getting an extra $500/$1000, they are sadly mistaken, but that's their choice. It's about as much money as I make in three or four days. They need it more than I do.
I'm not a fan of Reagan. I like Obama's "bottom-up" approach. The more money people have, the more they can participate in the economy, which is good for everyone.
Will it work? Maybe not, so let's revisit it. Should it pay less? Maybe so, so let's revisit it. Is it a step in the right direction? Yes. Is it unconscionable? Quite the opposite.
well i guess that's your way of looking at it
I disagree. Bottom up economic policies, while on their face seem to work, defy all logic. Someone making $9000 a year doesn't participate in the economy, they burden it. Dedicating more money to these folks is additional spending which would require additional taxation to pay for it. So we tax those big greedy corporations and rich folks more, those big bad rich people then spend less which is less money going to the middle class, who will then spend less because the $1000 tax break they get cost them either their job or an even bigger pay cut. It becomes a net loss for the economy. Folks who subscribe to the bottom up approach fail to realize that this money that is being doled out doesn't come from nowhere...it is subtracted from the economy.
Well, letting them suffer
Well, letting them suffer hasn't worked for the past decade, so while I might agree with some of your anti-poverty notions, the rich corporate executives certainly don't seem to be helping us very much right now either.
Letting the poor drown might be economically efficient, just as killing the sick and old would be, but it's still unconscionable.
If someone makes $9k, they should get a break. They're probably struggling to _eat_. So at that point cutting them off for efficiency sake is subhuman.
Yes, everything I've ever posted is my way of looking at it :D
Try a different logic then
So, it is much more economically sound for the government when a family to has to go on welfare and medicaid because they cannot afford to pay for childcare and healthcare on meager wages than get a couple thousand dollars back from the government to enable them to keep working?
Okay.
Also, please explain how money is somehow removed from the economy when somebody who spends just about every penny by necessity gets a small payment from the government? Macroeconomic and microeconomic principles would argue otherwise.
I don't see how money can possibly leave the economy anyway, other than to send it overseas to Swiss Bank accounts and when former US industries who have received enormous tax breaks in recent years move offshore.
Dude, that Modest Proposal essay was satire!
Confirmed: she made it up
kdka is now reporting the woman has admitted to making it all up.
I guess the B is for BUSTED!
Prophet Ability
I certainly find that tendency disconcerting, but I can see why they would do so - people are really freaked out by the damage that the "takeover of the GOP by the Bible Borg" (to borrow my lifelong Republican father's terminology) has unleashed in our society.
If you deal with the EU, and have seen how they have constructed their systems over the past decade or so, what has happened to our government and society are thrown in brutally bold relief. Other societies have moved forward, ours has moved backward and the crash has been brutal.
The damage that just about everyone can see from wherever they are isn't limited to the economy and the military. There have been intentional attacks on the intelligence and scientific communities leading to the erosion of our standing as a world leader in both areas. There has been a systematic assault on the very organs of government that buffer and protect people. Most people can see the latter - or have crushed by the consequences.
Obama has steadily offered hope and salvation to people raised in a society that is already primed with those memes by the rise of evangelical thinking. In the meantime, McCain hasn't been articulating any sort of consistent policy message other than the worship of the Divine Profit, has wasted vast amounts of time rehammmering smear campaigns against Obama that haven't stuck yet and probably won't on the thirtyseventh try, and doesn't have the carefully worked out documents to back up his policy positions and plans posted on the web since day 1.
As for actual messianic delivery? We will see ...
I will agree that
Large black man attacks Ashley Todd b/c she supports McCain
Back in the days of Nixon and Watergate, these kind of dishonest campaign tactics were conducted by operatives who were derisively called "ratf*ckers", by the opposition and by their own party. Unfortunately, they're just not a bright as they used to be.
Think about it. Ashely Todd is from Austin, TX. She goes to Pennsylvania, an essential swing state for McCain, and lies about getting beaten by a large black man ho did it (and get this) because she had a McCain bumper sticker. This is the kind of ratf*cking stunt Jack Abramoff used to pull off but he got away with it until he bilked and laundered millions of dollars from native Americans.
College Republicans don't necessarily take orders from the McCain campaign so there is no evidence this illegal and dishonest act was coordinated. But people like Ashley Todd, who are politically active in College Republicans, end up working to advance the Republican Party down the road. You'd think the McCain campaign and the RNC would come out with a strong statement decrying this kind of RACE-BAITING deception.
And about the assertion that "both campaigns" do it, show me the evidence.
This whole thing's got a Tawana Brawley-esque flavor to it,
if one gets the drift: it was a total hoax. Ashley Todd's completely off her rocker. To her credit, she confessed to having made the whole thing up and put the backwards "B" on her own face, but note that she only confessed when she realized that even the police saw that something didn't add up and that it was a fabricated story. Fortunately, the woman didn't get away with it--she'll probably go to the slammer for awhile, maybe.
I never wanted to be part of
I never wanted to be part of ACORN as I didnt like some of their tactics but the republicans are out of control on this. If I recall ACORN was railing against predatory lending since at least the late 90's, thats when I started paying attention to the world at large, and were being told to pipe down about it. It seems like now that they could actually say I told you so someone found a mistake they made and they are now being attacked like they are public enemy number 1 in America.
This video is less about
This video is less about ACORN in particular, although ACORN is a part of the story, than it is about the Palin/McCain tactics to incite anger.
If its true that the ACORN office in Dorchester was destroyed by McCain/Palin supporters, which we don't know, then you can already see the consequences of this style of politics. Watch the video.
Jumping to conclusions?
While this theft could be politically motivated, it could also be ordinary property crime. It's a bit early to be tossing accusations at local Republicans.
Whoever ransacked the office
Whoever ransacked the office in Dorchester and Seattle is the criminal - breaking and entering, theft, destruction of property. When they're caught, they will have no R or D on the police report.
My concern is that they were motivated to take this course of action as result of the hate and demonization of ACORN being intentionally sewn by Palin and McCain at their campaign rallies.
Go out and buy
A jump to conclusions mat.
Why do you think the ACORN
Why do you think the ACORN offices in Dot and Seattle were torn apart?
I don't have a clue
But Fields Corner just doesn't strike me as the sort of place where people get riled up by Sarah Palin. However, an office with computers in it does seem like a good robbery target.
You could be right, it could be political. But we don't know that yet.
You make a good point too.
You make a good point too. It could be just a robbery. But here is what else I noticed: The breaking and entering in their Seattle office plus the threatening communication from "partisan forces" (see below) is what made me think that Palin and McCain's demonization of ACORN on the campaign trail may have instigated this break in.
In the debate yesterday, McCain said this about ACORN, "one of the greatest frauds of voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy in this country."
What's to stop a "patriot" from delivering a little street justice?
It is a wild accusation, not grounded in any bit of reality. Just asked Florida Gov. and McCain surrogate Charlie Christ, who says the allegation is being overblown.
You're not familiar with
You're not familiar with anyone ever "demonizing" George Bush I suppose? Nah, never heard of it.
not demonized, excoriated
Bush should not be demonized, he should be excoriated for the following, threatening the US population with mushroom clouds, invading Iraq, torturing detainees and Iraqis, suspending Habeas corpus, outing a covert CIA agent, refusing to have diplomatic communications with our enemies, emptying the treasury with no bid military and homeland security contracts for his wealthy friends, giving tax breaks to the rich, funding the war with debt, cutting $200 million from the budget for levees in New Orleans before Katrina, responding ineffectively to the Katrina disaster, wiretapping US citizens without a warrant, national security letters, militarizing domestic police forces, putting a US Army division on active duty inside the US (suspending posse comitatus), not securing the border, not securing the ports, not regulating the banking and shadow banking system, asking Us taxpayers to ponu up $700 billion for wall street financial institutions, had enough? I have.
Minus 10 points for
Minus 10 points for mentioning posse comitatus.
Fields Corner
Yeah, Fields Corner is the type of place where random burglaries and vandalization can happen.
But Dot is so densely packed, that Fields Corner is 5 minute drive from pockets of older White, Herald-reading, still suspicious of "the Blacks" / vote for McCain 'cause he's White and has an Irish surname Dorchester. It's also 10-15 min drive from still-bitter about busing Southie. And I don't think it has to be someone from the immediate area. It could be angry suburbanites or suburban OFD-types still bitter about "the Blacks" moving in and ruining "their" neighborhood. My own gut, not-founded-on-fact speculation says that if is McCain-related, the culprits are more likely to have came from Quincy or Wouburn than Neponset or Adams.
Perhaps ACORN was the easiest target in Fields Corner, but it's not the only target by a long shot. And the evidence is inconclusive. But the timing and the suspicious emails make it hard for me to weight random break-in as likely as motivated by recent scare-tactics.
Although, few motives would surprise me. Perhaps a burglar targeted ACORN because he knew that people would automatically think it was politically motivated and he thinks that having more suspects will give him a greater chance of not getting caught?
I don't know
But what matters is that I haven't made a determination based upon my disdain for conservatives. I think it could be purely coincidental considering things were stolen that were of value from an office in the city. Now if there was grafitti or some sort of sign of pure malice, your conclusion may seem a bit more logical. You are letting your politics get in the way of your judgement. If this had happened outside of this election period, would you think twice about this being a random theft?
It's the repetition
The ACORN offices in Dorchester and Seattle were vandalized and robbed on the same day. ACORN has been receiving a lot of hate mail, and even death threats.
It seems like a far stretch to call all this coincidental.
Friend of terrorists and
Friend of terrorists and Acorn.
Laptops v. Desktops
If they only stole laptops, and not desktops, the "usual burglary" argument holds. But if they steal desktops, then it was a targeted surgical strike with a purpose. That's my take. Street thugs don't steal desktops. Nobody wants to buy a stupid tower on the black market. They want lappies. Look at the police reports. It's not hard to infer (but that's all it is, for now).
Computer thefts are probably 9-1 laptops-desktops, if I were to wager.
ACORN in the news... the election... it's not that big of a conclusion to jump to.
The vending machine change and copper wire lifting, however, smell more "usual burglary"... those guys love change!
Now that's
change you can believe in.
excellent joke! change you
excellent joke! change you can believe in. LMAO.
Would plain burglars vandalize phone/internet connections?
The article mentions that phone/"internet" lines were ripped out.
That implies vandalism. I would guess there is not much value for a fence in the kind of cheap broadband routers one would expect in a place like that.
Desktops
When I've needed to move desktop towers around, I've wanted to rip internet cables out of their sockets as well. If you're in a hurry and you're trying to steal a computer, you're not going to be too calm as you go about disconnecting everything in the back. I doubt the "wire damage" was anything like pulling it through the drywall and more likely that they just cut some of the cables or ripped them from the wall side in order to take the computers in a greater hurry.
Good eye
Good catch, dmoisan. It does say phone and Internet lines were ripped out. If they vandalized cables to detach computers, that's one thing Kaz argues. If they ripped out cabling, it's quite another.
You guys are something else
It is more likely that they mean the patch cables connecting the stolen computers to thewall were ripped out of the socket. Really if someone was going to vadalize an office, why would they rip wires out of the wall? Face it, someone stole some computers, a valuable commodity. Theres probably nothing more to it.
black helicopters hovering
Really if someone was going to vadalize an office, why would they rip wires out of the wall?
Do you have any idea what it costs to run datacom cabling, especially if you're in a union 'part of town' or building?
I think it's silly to armchair debate this- none of us have any clue what happened or why.
It will probably cost ACORN a pretty penny to get that wiring repaired...
how do you know that?
Like I said, for all we know patch cords were "ripped" out of sockets...
I think its silly to assume a robbery is vandalism. I know plenty about what installing cat5 would cost...but like I said, you don't even know that is what happened. The media sensationalizes things you know.
In your own little world
I'd say that I'm amazed by your denial of just about every flavor of thing that you don't think happens, don't want to think about, or don't want to believe, but then again we have all seen how completely sheltered you are in earlier threads.
Things do happen outside the manicured suburbs you have called home your whole life, and some of them are quite disturbing. Real, but disturbing.
The police investigation will bring more details to light, including details that are missing here, and similarities that speak to or dissimilarities that speak against a conspiracy in two cities. Meanwhile, you are way too quick to discount the possibility of something more sinister than just grabbing some computers given the current hate-filled climate surrounding ACORN and any of the "enemies" that Palin and McCain are flogging at their "energetic" rallies of late.
I'm sure you would also deny that this hate-fest has resulted in the Secretary of State in Ohio being sent death threats, white powder, and denial of service attacks on the state website. Somehow, you'd try to make the case that state officials have their staffs threatened every day by shipments of white powder wrapped in extreme threats. I'm sure that the black bear cub that was shot dead and turned up on a college campus with an Obama for President lawn sign stapled to it is simply a "non political" frat prank in your book, too. That fits in better with the quiet, civilized view of life from the Sudbury/Concord/Weston corner of the world just fine. Continually denying possibilities within the realm of reality by immersing yourself in entrenched arguments over arcane details at the expense of wider issues makes you more entertaining than persuasive.
See thats where you are wrong
I don't deny that its possible that this was related to the McCain attacks on ACORN. My point is that folks here are drawing conclusions based upon snippets of information provided by a media that does a terrible job at reporting things clearly. To me it is just as if not more likely that this was something random, that is all. I am not in denial, I just don't draw conclusions so that I can get on a political rant.
But nice cute conclusions you have drawn about me. How did you decide I live in the suburbs?
Well done Swrrly
Well done Swrrly. I'd like to see anon-y-mouse respond to the actual assertions in your post with substantive answers. Do you think it will happen?
Here's a re-cap of anon-y-mouse's persistent denials and assumed attributed motive. Note, anon-y-mouse will not look at the evidence in hand and draw a conclusion. Instead, anon-y-mouse takes the role of discrediting all other poster's judgments without ever taking a position and providing her/his reasons.
------
me: My concern is that they were motivated to take this course of action as result of the hate and demonization of ACORN being intentionally sewn by Palin and McCain at their campaign rallies.
anon-y-mouse: Go out and buy a jump to conclusions mat.
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anon-y-mouse: I think its silly to assume a robbery is vandalism.
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anon-y-mouse:I don't deny that its possible that this was related to the McCain attacks on ACORN.
anon-y-mouse: But what matters is that I haven't made a determination based upon my disdain for conservatives.
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A little off topic but related. Watch this clip by
RFK,Jr on Voter Suppression.
Dunno how I missed this
Dunno how I missed this one:
#2 - The Roxbury ACORN office was instigated by McCain's campaign vilifying ACORN but not conducted by campaign operatives.
Your point?
Really? What is it?
Yeah so well done
Calling me out as being in "denial" simply because I think it is ridiculous to come to a conclusion based on presumption? Thats really well done. I feel "owned". This was an "epic fail"(ure) by me. I am going to go hide in shame now while you high-five over whatever victory it is you think you seem to have achieved.
So what assertions do want me to respond to? That I live a sheltered life in the suburbs? I am not even going to justify that BS with a response.
Quite simply, neither you nor I know what happened, but this is a convenient instance for you to get on a political rant. My discrediting is simply to offer some balance to your bias. You seem to want me to come out and say that it couldn't have been politically motivated. I can't do that any more than you can say it was. Why must I take a position here?
I have many concerns about the way this campaign is being conducted on both sides, but Uhub is not the place for that.
I think your criticism of my
I think your criticism of my judgment that ACORN in Roxbury was vandalized by people riled up by Palin and McCain:
- Sen. John McCain 10/7/8
is less motivated by the evidence than by your affinity with (preference for) McCain and Palin.
If you don't want to take a stand about what you think happened at Roxbury ACORN, that's fine. But your continual and persistent dismissive denial of my judgment that comes with reasons, should at least include reasons.
You could respond to this, if you want (just the news items not the characterizations of you and where you live):
Certainly
Those new items present a much stronger case for ties to the political race. You know that if someone had plastered the office with McCain stickers or did something to the ACORN office to identify it as a political act, then there might be some sort of comparison between this case and the ones mentioned by Swirly. You do realize taht there is no economic benefit to a thief in killing a bear cub or issuing death threats. Of course in the case of this ACORN situation, nothing of the sort has occurred. Simply valuables were stolen from an office. That is all I have heard. Sounds like a theft to me.
With regards to my politics, I strongly dislike McCain and Palin...but not to the same extent that I fear Obama's economic policy (speaking of theft...tax credits are not tax cuts folks). I don't really have a dog in the race, especially since my vote will not make a bit of difference in our ridiculous electoral system.
more details
More information on break ins and death threats.
Threats against ACORN were
Threats against ACORN were covered on the news VIDEO. Oct 20.
The question of whether the
The question of whether the Roxbury ACORN office was
is anyone's guess. I'm leaning towards 2. I say that because of other activity around the country that includes a break in in Seattle, voice mail and US mail threats - video 30 secs., and videos of Palin/McCain supporters leaving campaign rallies pissed off about ACORN trying to steal the election.
He's a five minute video about the controversy regarding whether ACORN is registering new voters in good faith or trying to steal an election as John McCain asserted in the third and final presidential debate last week. VIDEO
So far in this election cycle, there has been a lawsuit to take folks off the voter roles in Michigan whose mortgages have been foreclosed (it was defeated), a lawsuit in Ohio to force the Secretary of State to verify all new registrations against other state databases (it was defeated in the Supreme Court) and voter role challenges in Nevada. You can expect to see a lot of challenges from the GOP in this election. It is not a new technique, it is just finally getting press. Here's another 3 min. video in defense of false attacks on ACORN.
Well of course you guess #2
we all know your politics.
Wildly Ridiculous Theory (?)
When I first heard of the thefts, my thought was that perhaps there had been noise concerning the FBI or other governmental investigating agency subpoenaing computer records and that the "theft" was a way of making some of those records disappear.
Am I so neanderthal that I have no idea what I'm talking about concerning computers? Probably - and if I am, I'm sure I'll be told immediately. But, that was my initial reaction.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
McCain and Biden on ACORN and Marxism
McCain answers questions on WFTV 9 10/14, link.
Biden answers questions on WFTV 9 10/14, same interviewer. link.