Armed robber costs worker her job
By adamg - Sat, 01/03/2009 - 11:52am.
The Herald reports the owner of Darque Tan was upset the woman didn't fight back when the gunman held the place up last month.
Police are looking for Preston Jackson, 42, of Mattapan, in connection with that and other recent hold ups in the Back Bay and Fenway.
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if the story...
...about this young woman losing her job is true, I feel terrible for her.
It's not out of the question that she's experiencing some level of post-traumatic stress.
She may have grounds for legal action, but if it's a crappy job and she can find a better place to work, it may be the wiser thing to move on and look at Darque Tan in the rearview mirror.
Uhhh...
...call me stupid, but how exactly is she supposed to fight back if she doesn't have a weapon? Of course she's scared...she couldn't defend herself.
Stupid Employer
Even when I worked in retail as a young teen two decades ago, the owner of the mom&pop store in Oregon instructed, in cowboy casual manner, "Just give 'em the money."
I think he just didn't want me to get hurt.
Nowadays, the liability of an employee "fighting back" is huge: if an employee, customer, or robber gets injured or killed, you have a big lawsuit.
Being robbed at gunpoint, anywhere, is traumatic, but
that manager of Darque Tan is an absolutely and totally disgusting piece of work. In the first place, yeh, they're acting illegally if they don't offer their workers any breaks, and, secondly, it's not safe for a woman of any age to work the night shift by herself, especially in that kind of a location. Here's hoping the young woman finds a better place to work, with better hours, and that they fire that manager's ass...pronto!
IMHO, anybody who disregards the welfare and wellbeing of their worker(s) so flagrantly doesn't belong a manager....of any business!
Talk about unprofessional
Talk about unprofessional behavior, getting upset because someone doesnt fight off an armed robber!
Ive never held a job that would have expected me to fight off armed robbers, even when I was a teenage football player working at a local popular joint. In that particular job managers would try their best to keep the registers free of too much cash but on busy nights it would not be uncommon for me to have thousands of dollars in my register. I was always told, and we were told DAY ONE to never engage in a fight or get involved in a fight between patrons. We were essentially told to just give anyone any cash they wanted if they came up to us and threatened us. I had another job where I was by myself more often, and was a little less safe, but the managers at that place also thought in advance. Any bill larger then a 20 went immediatly into a slit that went to a sealed safe type thing. Anytime your register had more then a certain amount you were supposed to put the rest of the cash into the slit as well. So if someone came in and demanded the cash Id have 50 bucks to give em, Im sure thats how it must work at 7/11 as well because they always have those signs saying theres never more then 50 bucks in the reigster. Its not worth robbing a place for 50 bucks.
I've owned and run a retail store
the store sold tech stuff in a small town, but the principle was the same.
The instructions to my staff (written, and verbally reviewed often) were explicit: if for any reason it's not safe to be in here, get yourself and everyone else out. Period. If someone comes in and threatens you, give them whatever they want, and get out fast as soon as you can do so safely. There are fore and aft exits, and two above the wings on either side, etc.
We also had 911 on a speed dial button on every phone, including those phones that couldn't been seen from the front of the store, just in case.
Anyone who runs a retail operation differently is just a clueless, stupid, **** of a moron who's putting the business and staff at risk for nothing at all.
And yeah, if something like that had happened (thank g-d it did not while i owned the place, or after), we would have probably closed for a couple of days afterward to catch our breath...
Für Elise
take a look here and here and here.
Oh
So the manager is a precious lower-20-something experiencing her first power trip.
That explains lots and lots and lots.
This isn't so complicated after all. She can be fired and easily replaced with another one just like her. They're cheap, eager, and above all else, expendable.
the owner of this place is SO screwed
1. Liability insurance is problematic for these places. If their agent has any brains, cancellation is on the horizon.
2. These bozos may actually have figured out a way for her to get Worker's Comp for PTSD. I once saw it done for a certain LARGE car dealer on the Automile who abused a worker. Again, the insurance company will not be amused.
3. On a brighter note, now the thief knows where the manager lives. How is the security at The Piano Factory, Elise?
Security at PCG is pretty good
A few times times when I once lived there (and got out at the first opportunity, damn!) i had trouble getting in. My friends could not get in unless i came downstairs to meet them. We had to ask permission of the manager for all kinds of stuff.
However, it's pretty easy to get in if:
- your friend props the back door open
- you know the guard or manager, regardless of whether you live there or not
- you are there to buy or sell drugs
why did you get out?
and got out at the first opportunity, damn!
you are there to buy or sell drugs
I take it the two are related?
i go out
because i did not fit in there and the crack smoke from the people downstairs made my eyes burn
So very wrong ...
I think this employee may be able to sue ... but she was absolutely sensible and correct in not fighting back! Almost every retailer since CVS was sued for encouraging employees to apprehend robbers has clearly communicated that staff survival is most important. NIOSH and OSHA back this up.
Now that we know who little miss senseless is and where she lives, perhaps a nice bouquet of vinegar and water balloons would make a nice in-person presentation?
MA is an at-will employment state
I think this employee may be able to sue ... but she was absolutely sensible and correct in not fighting back!
The employee wasn't fired for not fighting back. She was fired for not showing up for work after being specifically told by her supervisor to show up for work at a certain time.
Massachusetts is an at-will employment state; much of the USA has been for decades. That means you can be fired for no reason at all. It does not mean you can be fired for *any* reason. From what I've heard, one of the biggest problems retail managers have is employees simply deciding not to show up for work on a particular shift. Guess what? The economy has gone south and there are plenty of people happy to fill this woman's shoes.
While the manager is clearly a bitch (myspace page quote: " Does it kill you knowing I have everything that you want.." A:Nope!), that doesn't turn into a get-five-days-off (5 days? *Now* who's a special princess?) card.
Now that we know who little miss senseless is and where she lives, perhaps a nice bouquet of vinegar and water balloons would make a nice in-person presentation?
No. That would make for a nice charge of assault and battery- good luck defending yourself when the crime involved a chemical weapon you prepared in advance, showing premeditation.
At-will doesn't mean quite what you think it does
Employers still can't fire people unfairly.
For instance, I was fired by a boss who was basically pissed off at me because I refused to do things like falsify medical records and defraud Medicare. My official firing notice said I was fired for turning in a progress note late. Every single clinician in the place had turned in progress notes late, because that's what happens when you have 15 minutes a day to do all your charts and sometimes that 15 minutes is spent attending to a crisis. The attorney general determined it to be wrongful termination after I found several cow orkers who were willing to attest that I had been fired for something that other people hadn't been fired for. I got unemployment benefit for as long as I wanted, the company had to pay for it, and they had to pay for my health insurance. I didn't even have to go to court or anything; the AG resolved it really quickly with a few phone calls to various people.
So no, you can't just fire someone for no reason. There still have to be policies saying that people will be fired for XY and Z, are entitled to N warnings, etc., and it has to be applied consistently.
Similar Situation
A friend of mine worked for a social services agency where his boss hated him, for somewhat similar reasons to what Eeka described. She had him work overtime until a critical inspection and audit was past, then fired him for various vague reasons.
He collected unemployment and they challenged it. Trouble is, the company has to prove at the hearing that they not only followed legal procedures, but that they followed internal procedures. Since the boss did not give him the required warnings, or note anything amiss in his salary reviews, or issue a correction memo, or put his termination reasons in writing, or do anything else required by their own handbook, my friend won his claim at his hearing.
That meant that the agency had to pay higher unemployment premiums as a result - partly because they terminated him, partly because they didn't follow their own procedures and lost their challenge to his claim.
This was in MA, but my brother's roomate in OR used to tell all sorts of stories when he presided over hearings for unemployment and worker's comp claims. He ruled for the worker a good deal of the time simply because companies didn't do what either the law required or what their own internal policies demanded, bosses didn't complete paperwork or keep records, etc.
So sure, you can fire anybody for any reason at any time - that doesn't mean it isn't going to cost you big money if you do and you haven't followed your own procedures or kept a paper trail.
were you fired for not being able to read?
In BOLD, from my original comment:
That means you can be fired for no reason at all. It does not mean you can be fired for *any* reason.
It's obvious to the most casual observer that workplace discrimination is just one of several situations not covered by at-will employment. Stop assuming everyone around you are idiots because they don't state the obvious.
There still have to be policies saying that people will be fired for XY and Z, are entitled to N warnings, etc. So no, you can't just fire someone for no reason. There still have to be policies saying that people will be fired for XY and Z, are entitled to N warnings, etc., and it has to be applied consistently.
Bzzzt, thank you for playing. The policies do not have to exist; only if they exist (and they are not followed) can you then challenge the termination. See under "statutory exceptions":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment
No, but if they don't...
If policies don't exist, it's hard to fire someone for violating one, as my employer found out.
There wasn't any policy in writing that progress notes were to be turned in on time. There weren't any policies about anything in writing. That's why the AG sided with me. There was no policy saying progress notes needed to be turned in on time and no record of anyone talking to me about turning them in on time. Just a pink (yes, it was actually pink!) paper saying I was being fired for turning in a progress note late.
The AG was prepared to side with me just on that basis, saying that signs pointed to me being targeted, given that the pink slip didn't say I'd caused a safety or financial or legal issue or anything. AG said it wasn't reasonable to fire someone on a slip-up that most anyone would make. They said my case would go faster if I could find other people who would acknowledge having done the same thing, so I did.
At-will employment laws pretty much mean that employees don't have the legal right to insist on a probationary period and severance and whatnot. Employers are still usually going to lose if they're challenged on some aspect of an "it's not working out" firing, because they're not going to have anything to back up that it wasn't a discriminatory firing.
My experience in the rehab field has been that when an employer provides no reason, the employee can shoot back and say it was discrimination on the basis of disability or perceived disability, and the burden then rests on the employer to prove otherwise. If they have documentation that they talked to someone about a specific issue and it wasn't resolved, then they're usually in the clear.
When you volunteer to work the late shift at Dorque Tan ...
or any other low wage late night retail job we might be willing to listen to your "empathetic" pronouncements about her legal standing in Massachusetts (reading a wikipedia article about general provisions sure makes you an expert!), what you "really meant when you said employment at will", or how only a special princess would avoid a rapid return to a situation where she was victimized.
Water Balloon = chemical weapons?
If you say so dear.
Well water is a chemical ... but then again she might fight back and that would get all messy and catty and all and her perfect faux dahhk tan might get ruined.
Then again, she doesn't need to smell like a douche bag when she is a douche bag, eh? Not that you could smell the difference over your own scent.
I think he was refering to
I think he was refering to the vinger concoction more so then the water balloons.
I think you do oftentimes resort to "blog mob violence" when you feel strongly about something. Wheter it be talking about shivving gang members in downtown Boston, going after cars with a chain on the street if they cut your bike off or launcing a water balloon attack on someones house (I still dont get the vinegar portion of it.) Im sure you wouldnt do any of those things, but they do make you , sometimes, seem like an irrational chain wielding , water balloon throwing, wild frontiers woman with no regard to the laws and customs of Boston regarding physical attacks.
I think you missed the reference
I assumed (correct me if I'm wrong, Swirly...) that "vinegar and water" was a sly way of implying that the woman is a douchebag. Remember the commercials from the '80s about how some douche was "just vinegar and water"?
well, it's not that clear
Brett, while you're right that Massachusetts and most of the rest of the nation follows the rule of at-will employment (giving an employer to fire someone for any reason or no reason at all), it's not an unconditional right. If she proves that she was unable to show up to work because of legitimate psychological impairment, she may have a disability-related claim. And being held up is pretty traumatizing.
That said, from a practical standpoint she's probably better off waving goodbye to that company, maybe collecting unemployment if she's eligible, rather than spending heaven knows how much time, mental energy, and money trying to sue a lousy employer over a less-than-wonderful job.
Plus, thanks to the good folks here and elsewhere, Darque Tan is getting its due. Sometimes revenge is served up best coldly online....
exactly
She could probably have a pretty easy case that she was mistreated in several ways in the few days leading up to her termination, which would then make it retaliatory.
From the Herald story, it sounds like the boss was asking/expecting the employee to do something that goes against workplace safety guidelines (trying to defend oneself against an intruder). IANAL, but I have spent years as an administrator, and I know it's retaliation to fire someone because they've stood up for their right to a safe/legal work environment. I think OSHA probably has guidelines about dealing with intruders.
Also, David, I don't think she'd even have to go so far as claiming a disability (plus, it's gonna be a long shot; the ADA doesn't consider normal/healthy response to trauma to be a disability, since it's not, so she would have to develop full-blown PTSD, which can't be diagnosed until at least 6 months post incident, and the ADA also only covers long-term disabilities, not injuries and whatnot).
The case she does have is being denied reasonable use of sick days. Unless there's a written policy about how many sick days someone can use and she's exceeded it, then her employer is discriminating by not letting her have sick days when other people are presumably allowed to take them. THIS is where psych disability laws come into play; it's not ADA here, but rather state statutes. If sick days are allowed for broken legs, they need to also be allowed for panic attacks resulting from being robbed. Both are short-term injuries, not disabilities according to the ADA, but need to be accommodated equally.
Companies have lost in court for having policies saying that "mental health days are not allowed." The company can of course disallow employees from taking a sick day "for personal reasons," but it's discrimination if it's OK to take a day off "because I have a sore throat and fever" but not OK to take a day off "because I'm panicking and having all kinds of racing thoughts." The person doesn't need to have a mental health issue of the magnitude that would warrant protection under the ADA in order to prevail in a case like this. They just need to have emotional symptoms that warrant staying home to the same extent as physical symptoms that the employer deems acceptable sick-day excuses. The employer can require a note from a credentialed provider saying the person should stay out for X days, but can't require that the note go into the person's medical details.
My advice to someone who's had a traumatizing experience and needs a few days off would be to see an urgent care doc and see if it would be appropriate to take some PRN meds for a couple days to help you calm down. Then you have in writing a completely legitimate excuse for staying out of work -- it's absolutely appropriate to stay at home for a few days if you're taking a new medication and aren't sure how it affects you. Says so on the pharmacy insert. The prescriber can write you a completely benign note saying you've been prescribed new meds that might cause sedation or confusion at first, and you shouldn't work/make major decisions/operate heavy machinery for a few days.
American Dream
It's sad that Americans as a whole take psych meds so easily, and that so many Americans have adversarial work environments in which a note from a doctor is necessary to get a few days off after an emotional trauma.
Being a numb slave is not the American Dream.
which gives me an opening...
...to shamelessly self-promote my new blog, "Minding the Workplace":
http://newworkplace.wordpress.com
Visitors and comments welcomed!
Oh, I agree wholeheartedly
My training is actually of a mind-body orientation (and its applications in reimbursable scientifically backed western therapy). But I practice in this country and this era, so I'm not about to tell people (either my clients or random strangers on the internet) that they'll have a breeze of a time being excused from work because I told them that self-care and personal reflection are really important in healing.
No matter what your theoretical orientation, I think most professionals would agree that someone is going to recover best when they don't have to worry about whether they're going to have a job when they go back. And if they don't have to spend extra energy dealing with bureaucratic BS. Unfortunately, society is such that even though someone does in fact have the legal right to attend to their mental health, employers don't know this, don't care, and the person is likely to have to deal with crap -- possibly to the extent of going to court over it. As much as I'm not a promoter of "go immediately take meds for everything before trying anything else," it's about the only simple way to make sure you have an excuse for your boss that won't be questioned.
Understood. Thanks for
Understood. Thanks for posting that.