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Suck it, Phoenix

Robert David Sullivan gets a bit schadenfreudey on the news that while Boston's population seems to be increasing, albeit at amounts that require a microscope to notice, that vast Sun Belt engine of growth known as Phoenix may actually be contracting.

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Okay, so I've never been to Phoenix. I have been to Tucson for a conference, and the outbound flight almost collided with a small Piper Cub type plane that crossed the runway we were supposed to land on, but never mind.

Point is, complaints aside, Boston has it so over Phoenix. Here is what the curmudgeonly James Howard Kunstler said about Boston in The City in Mind: Notes on the Urban Condition (2003 ed.): "My own prediction is that Boston will be America's most habitable big city in the first quarter of the new century. In Boston, there seems to be a new and clear consensus that city life can be wonderfully rewarding, and that we possess the means to make it so."

He doesn't say anything about Phoenix, but I can't imagine the same words coming out of his mouth.

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Phoenix is hotter than Tucson, especially in the summer, and it doesn't strike me as a very cultured city, either.

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Certain people on this site claim that Boston is losing population fast and other cities, like Phoenix are winning the population war. I disagree and agree with the assesment that this blogger makes.

I feel that Boston is and always has been the tortoise in the race when it comes to population and always will be. We are not growing by leaps and bounds but we are also not going to collapse in on ourselves. I dont see the problem with moderate sustainable population growths with the population growing only when it is needed as opposed to boom towns that will explode only to have a massive implosion down the road (Detroit is a prime example, possible Las Vegas in the future especially if legalized gambling takes hold elsewhere.) While we are known for being very liberal our take on expansion has been very conservative and I think in the long run thats a better stradegy.

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I dont see the problem with moderate sustainable population growths

No, but your congressmen do. By mid-century America will have 400 - 450 million people, which means 8-9 million people in Massachusetts even if the state's share of the nation's population declines somewhat. I now yield the floor to smart-growth advocates so they can tell you about the joy of high-density living and constant competition over scare public spaces.

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I'm not well-versed in urban planning wonkery, so I'll just say that smart, steady, natural growth, with moderately high density living spaceS, mixed-use areas, and walkable neighborhoods -- along what Jane Jacobs wrote about for years -- is my idea of great city life. It's a look-and-feel thing.

I guess that's why it's hard for me to think of some of those southwest big cities as, well, big cities.....what are they..."citiburbs" or "suburbities"???

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I dont want to live in a massive metropolis thats growing at a massive speed and is missing good urban planning. I have a feeling many of these midwestern cities will be like LA but only worse as they settle into their old age.

Im willing to lose a congressman or two if it means being able to go to the beach or woods within an hour of my home, but still be able to take in a baseball game or concert in the city.

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Arizona's public school enrollment is also declining rather dramatically.

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Let's not forget that, in other parts of the country, cities sometimes grow rapidly simply by annexing the surrounding suburbs, which often have little or no say in the matter.

The last time Boston annexed anything was in 1912, which explains why it's one of the, if not the, smallest major cities in relation to its Census-defined metropolitan areas in the country.

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It was a story deep inside the newspapers during the era when Chelsea's schools were in receivership and municipal finances resembled the Nation's today; but I recall that somebody came up with the idea of annexing that City (yes Chelsea IS a city!) into Boston. But nothing came of it, or The Hub would have 30,000-or-so more residents today.

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Would have been interesting because it was way more for the benefit of the annexed town (in that case, a city with a dysfunctional school system) than for the annexing city (which typically swallows up places for the tax revenue). I think the idea died when BU agreed to take over the Chelsea schools.

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Yes and no, while Chelsea is far from perfect it is still in better shape then the worst parts of Boston. Being new to the Boston club I doubt they would have gotten the resources they needed to recoup and I think it would have ended up as one of Bostons worst neighberhoods rather then just a slightly run down poor neighberhood. Although I think it would have been great news for East Boston as they would have a fellow Boston neighberhood on that side of the rivers and it may of forced Boston to spend more time over there by virtue of the resident bump (Id assume people would clump Chelsea in with East Boston if there were an annexation anyway, kinda like Allston/Brighton.)

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Which is rather a big point. Boston itself can't grow very much - there's no room for new development. Many cities around the country have been surrounded by pastures, fields and desert, and have had room for developers to build entirely new communities. That hasn't happened to Boston since about 100 years ago. The truth is, Boston really isn't a big city. It's a medium sized city with a small "big city downtown" area. You could probably shoot a slingshot from the North End and hit the Copley Library. The population of Phoenix is almost 3x that of Boston - that ratio won't be changing any time soon.

Metropolital Boston - out to I-495 - has developed in the last 25 years, to the point that those ring communities are raising the drawbridge to block any more growth. Which is exactly the opposite of communities around the country, which have welcomed growth. Phoenix grew by 10% between 2000 and 2005 alone. Arizona had the second highest growth rate during that period.

If you like cities like Boston, then Boston is the place to be. That's a truism, not at statement about the relative values of Boston and Phoenix. If you love the desert, Boston will look like a dump.

Being schadenfreudy about the lack of growth in Phoenix is like being pleased when the guy with a better paying job than you don't get still another raise. Years ago, I heard a historian say that if the United States had been settled from the Pacific, New England would be empty forest now. The land was so rocky and resources so limited that no one would want to settle here.

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I thought the Weekly Dig was trashing my former employer again!

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In view of the discussion, I thought folks might find this interesting -- a cut & paste from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston,_Massachusetts:

Historical populations
Census Pop. %±
1790 18,320 —
1800 24,937 36.1%
1810 33,787 35.5%
1820 43,298 28.1%
1830 61,392 41.8%
1840 93,383 52.1%
1850 136,881 46.6%
1860 177,840 29.9%
1870 250,526 40.9%
1880 362,839 44.8%
1890 448,477 23.6%
1900 560,892 25.1%
1910 670,585 19.6%
1920 748,060 11.6%
1930 781,188 4.4%
1940 770,816 -1.3%
1950 801,444 4%
1960 697,197 -13%
1970 641,071 -8.1%
1980 562,994 -12.2%
1990 574,283 2%
2000 589,141 2.6%
Est. 2007 608,352 3.3%

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HA! My husband and I just moved here from Phx. It's a terribly depressing city, and we're thrilled to be back to an East Coast blue state.

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...kicked the Suns' asses up and down the court last night, too. So there.

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Wow...such aggression towards Phoenix. I'm Cali raised, but have lived here for 14 yrs...and I've been to Boston several times for tradeshows, etc. I love Boston!!! Great city.

But I love Phoenix. Maybe we aren't rich in culture, but we are rich in scenery, city scapes, sky scapes...and we can watch any live sporting event....

And, today, while you are buried in snow, its a beautiful 80 degrees out.......

Have a happy day.

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It's 60 degrees today and there's no snow.

Hah!

Um, OK, it's supposed to snow and sleet on Sunday.

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News to me ....

Now Flagstaff, that has scenery.

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Death Valley has scenery, you dont see me flocking there.

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