MBTA train crew ignores collapsed man; didn't get "safety is our number one priority" memo
By Brett - 1/31/09 - 5:20 am
A man collapses, the train crew ignore pleas for help, and MBTA dispatch fails to stop the train to meet emergency responders. Sound familiar? You're thinking of James A. Allen, who died on a commuter rail train because the crew continued on into Boston instead of waiting for emergency medical crews. Which is what happened here- except thankfully the victim hasn't died.
"He came into the car and he looked at the guy," Puckerin said. "The guy was lying on the floor and I thought they would have taken him off, but the doors just closed and he said, 'Next stop: Kendall Square,' and they did that all the way to South Station."
The train then continued on, past MGH where the man could have been carried to an emergency room within a minute or two- and the dispatcher didn't tell the train to wait at Park Street, where he had told Boston EMS / BFD (who gave the call their top priority level) to meet the train.
Despite Allen's death in 2002 which should have prompted training and policy changes, as well as years of training in emergency preparedness- the MBTA has yet again demonstrated it is inept at handling even the smallest-scale emergencies.
The MBTA's defense is that "years of experience" allow their operators to determine with a single glance whether a person is drunk or having a life-threatening medical emergency. This will be the answer to our nation's need for universal health care! Send our brightest minds to the public transit systems for "years of experience" pushing "door open" and "door close". They will become infallible at instant visual medical diagnostics (provided they're not drunk or high on cocaine.)
So, everyone- it's official. We now have to look out for each other. Here's an idea: the next time you see a medical emergency on the subway, by all means notify the crew, but organize among the passengers. At the next station, remove the person from the train (or block the doors to force the train to stay) and send someone up above ground to use their cell phone to call for help- because while Boston EMS/BFD did their jobs, the MBTA just can't be bothered for the second time.
Comments
My first thought
By Kaz - 1/31/09 - 5:29 am
Yeah, that's the thing I didn't get. If I'm on that train and it stops and nobody comes to help, then why am I not going to block the door at the very next stop so that the train can't go anywhere until someone is forced to deal with him or, at the very least, deal with me. I couldn't believe the people on the train weren't trying to stop the train in any way so that help would be forced to happen or nobody would be going anywhere anyways.
So weird.
Mine too
By neilv - 1/31/09 - 5:51 am
I would've expected people to block the doors and *demand*.
On second thought...
It might have been that they were less certain that he needed medical attention than the article makes it sound.
Or they might have deferred to the authority/judgement of the T personnel who came on.
Or they might have assumed that the T was taking the most effective action for the person, such as by rendezvousing with an ambulance at the next station ASAP.
Then again
By neilv - 1/31/09 - 6:26 am
At least five times in Central Square, Inman Square, and Kendall Square in the last few years, I've seen someone collapsed on the street in a way that doesn't feel like merely a drunken person.
In *all* of the cases, people had walked by and I saw *no one* stop. Before I got a cellphone, I used to have to go into shops and ask to use the phone. Once I asked a private security officer across the street to phone CPD or an ambulance, and he was reluctant, so I had to go into a shop. Another time, with a respectable-looking middle-aged man who appeared to have driven his convertible into the curb and was delirious but not drunk, I asked a woman passing by to call 911 or loan me her phone (I'm clean-cut and non-threatening), and she debated and then declined, so I had to go into a nearby pub to call 911.
I'm guessing the problem is that drunks, druggies, and crazies around the area have desensitized people. People wonder whether the person is just "one of those people," rather than take immediate action to help the person. I *have*, however, seen people stop and try to help at auto accidents where it looked like someone was injured (in Inman Square and Union Square), which is not inconsistent with the drunks/druggies/crazies theory.
Thankfully, in my experience, once *someone* calls 911 or CPD, then EMS (always Pro Ambulance?), CFD, and/or CPD get there quickly.
One big problem is, however,
By independentminded (not verified) - 1/31/09 - 11:40 am
is that, with the advent of cell phones, the pay phones have all but disappeared, which makes it harder to call an ambulance or police directly. All too often, when someone tries to call an ambulance or police on the phone, the caller gets routed elsewhere first, therefore causing delays that shouldn't happen.
E911
By neilv - 1/31/09 - 5:00 pm
Yeah, in September or October, I called 911 from my mobile phone (after hearing a small explosion from the street and seeing smoke come from the vehicle in the road)... and the operator had to ask me what city I was in, and then, IIRC, they forwarded me to an operator for Cambridge.
I assumed they had E911 location info to within 100 meters, especially from a recent Nokia smartphone. Google Maps seems to be able to locate my phone.
Perhaps the E911 location info is not fast or reliable enough to automatically forward to the appropriate 911 operator? Perhaps they do the automatic and the human in parallel?
I checked into E911 last year
By Jay Levitt - 1/31/09 - 5:13 pm
At the time, E911's rollout was so far behind that the vast majority of Massachusetts was capable only of routing you to the right *state*. Some areas had city-specific routing, but greater Boston wasn't one of them.
The report's online somewhere.
You're asking why people
By anon (not verified) - 1/31/09 - 10:39 am
You're asking why people don't disrupt train service. Could it be 8 years of being threatened with arrest if you don't sit quietly and do as you're told, MBTA police who would rather hassle photographers than protect passengers, random bag searches, and other tactics designed to intimidate the public?
We've been trained to be passive, and we need to get over it.
Oh, really?!?
By independentminded (not verified) - 1/31/09 - 11:13 am
Pray tell me, anon (not verified) is this:
snark, or do you mean it for real?
If it's snark, it's not a funny joke.
If, on the other hand, you mean it, then you're just as insensitive as the MBTA workers who didn't stop the train and the passengers who ignored the guy.
@ independentminded: Would
By anon (not verified) - 2/1/09 - 11:58 am
@ independentminded: Would your English comprehension go up if I didn't use complicated words like "it"? Try this:
We've been trained to be passive, and we need to get over being passive.
or
We've been trained to be passive, and we need to get over that training.
Ha ha ha!!
By independentminded (not verified) - 2/1/09 - 1:49 pm
My English comprehension is perfectly fine. Don't insult my intelligence.
Hey "anon," get a clue!
By patriots1 - 1/31/09 - 11:55 am
You obviously have a problem with the Transit Police. Where does this story mention that they were involved at all? It doesn't, it was the T itself, not their police department. The T doesn't like to stop service, end of story. You won't find it written but the employees are told to "keep the service moving, no matter what."
could that also be part of
By anon (not verified) - 1/31/09 - 12:09 pm
could that also be part of the problem?
Where the hell are the transit police in an emergency such as this one? Why was a run of the mill customer service rep, with no medical training making decisions on a medical emergency?
This is the final straw. We need to demand Dan's head for this one.
maybe they were at Park St with EMS waiting?
By patriots1 - 1/31/09 - 1:47 pm
Or, maybe they weren't even called. I mean, if the T employees didn't help maybe they didn't even call the police department that is in charge of the Authority. The best thing to do in a case like this is to hold the train once the emergency is identified and to then send the emergency services to the emergency. But, like I said, the T employees are told to "keep service moving."
please read the article- Boston EMS was called and waiting
By Brett - 1/31/09 - 4:28 pm
MBTA police called Boston EMS and said the train would be at Park. They then failed to tell the train to stop and wait at Park.
It's even less excusable because the whole thing started at CENTRAL- and they rode right past Charles/MGH. Still, the choice to just keep on rollin' was stupid- what if the train got stuck in the tunnel somewhere between stations or they had "switching problems"?
Radio communications on T are not perfect
By bostonian - 2/1/09 - 9:52 am
For all we know the T police couldn't communicate well with that train or the train with them (once underground from MGH) so things got mixed up. Or, because the train personnel (who seem to be medical experts) deemed it not to be a true emergency, kept going because of that "keep it moving" attitude mentioned above?
the T spent millions on new radio gear in 2003
By Brett - 2/1/09 - 3:37 pm
$25.7M to be exact, and it works just fine.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb5553/is_200307/ai_n22339174
The train operators knew they had a medical emergency.
The dispatchers probably could have stopped the train via signals.
Or contacted a 'station agent' and had them wait at the platform and stop the train.
There's no excuse here.
Brett, your wrong
By patriots1 - 2/2/09 - 5:04 pm
I've spoken to T employees about their radio system and they tell me that it has dead spots where one can't transmit from and others that you can't receive transmissions from. Just because something costs a lot doesn't mean it works....remember the space shuttle Columbia? Or, the Big Dig? Or, the War in Iraq?
Only the crew can decide
By Anonymous - 1/31/09 - 6:20 am
Only the crew can decide where to meet emergency services and to stop the train there so even if riders raise a concern about a medical crisis, the responsibility to put the person in emergency care rests with the MBTA.
Perhaps riders should be instructed to push the emergency box button, so there's a record of the report.
A call over the PA for any doctor on the train wouldn't be a bad idea either.
What the f*ck are you guys doing up at the hour?
drunk vs insulin shock
By Pete Nice - 1/31/09 - 7:58 am
Always remember that people that have diabetes and go into insulin shock will often appear drunk. These people need medical attention obviously.
And even drunk people can have medical conditions that would warrant medical attention.
And without stereotyping, someone that just looks like they are going or comming home from work and is well dressed like one of the witnesses in this story said might be an example of someone that needs help due to insulin shock.
dress well
By david_yamada - 1/31/09 - 10:29 am
I think that many of us have become desensitized. I know that if I see someone on the ground and catch even a whiff of alcohol, I'll assume they're sleeping it off. And how someone is dressed makes a difference too. Indeed, the best reason not to wear your very grungiest clothes on the T is that if something happens to you, it's more likely that people will pass by.
Oh...and above all,
By independentminded (not verified) - 1/31/09 - 11:09 am
always wear clean underwear.
hah!
By david_yamada - 1/31/09 - 11:58 am
I thought about that line...and realized by the time we're down to skivvies...we're getting the help we need!
Pants Free T Ride?
By SwirlyGrrl - 2/1/09 - 12:27 am
Definitely a case for clean underwear.
In any case, so what if he was drunk - alcohol intoxication to the point of lost consciousness is a medical emergency anyway!
Even nine cops...
By Kaz - 1/31/09 - 10:32 am
Can't tell the difference between stinking drunk and a cardiomyopathy. You'd think the T would know that you can't just look and tell what medical problem a person might be having. Also, when "did so drunk that you're not able to stand up or communicate" stop being a medical problem? Alcohol poisoning is very real. I doubt "suffocating on your own vomit" is how any of us want to die, even the raging alcoholics.
not a witness- the victim
By Brett - 1/31/09 - 4:29 pm
and is well dressed like one of the witnesses in this story
It was the victim that was "well dressed and carrying a laptop case".
In other words, he didn't look remotely like a drunk bum.
my bad
By Pete Nice - 1/31/09 - 8:07 pm
I meant to say that the victim was well dressed according to the witness.
Dunkin Donuts, Cops, and Quick Response
By SwirlyGrrl - 1/31/09 - 7:02 pm
Last night I took the kids over to the moving sale at the Newbury Comics over across from the fresh pond mall.
As I walked into the store, I noticed a woman in a car parked just outside the line of stores.
She was sort of nodding off in an odd way ... she didn't respond to my tapping on her window ... and she was opening and closing her mouth in a very strange way.
Through the window, I spotted the "medic alert" symbol on her wrist. Couldn't read her bracelet, of course, but it made "seizure" or "diabetic issue" all the more probable in my mind. Even though she was parked outside CVS near Kappy's, "drunk" didn't occur to me - she didn't look drunk, just, well, weird. She was also behind the wheel.
I didn't call 911 though, because I thought it would be more efficient to get the attention of a cop doing paperwork in his car over near the dunkin donuts . He went right over, tapped on the window, and immediately called for backup.
I went in to the store to catch up with my youngsters and left the responders to their work.
Hooray for citizens looking
By neilv - 1/31/09 - 7:37 pm
Hooray for citizens looking out for each other.
By the way, I'm sure SwirlyGrrl was knowledgeable enough to know that she didn't have any info that would have been helpful to EMS. But I think in general it is best to get out of the way but hang around somewhere visible, in case EMS has any rapid questions about what you observed.
One time I did this while several first-responders attended to the guy, and after it seemed they had everything under control and would have no more questions for me, I must've looked like I was debating whether I should go. A cop on the scene noticed, said something to someone about talking with me before I left, and came over and asked me some more things.
Another time, at a speeding car vs. pedestrian accent, I ran up to the victim and tried to reassure him til first-responders arrived (nothing else I could do; no bleeding, and he had a back injury and possibly neck injury). I hung back after a Somerville or Cambridge cop arrived, and gave a statement after EMS and more police arrived and things had settled down.
I let the cop know where I'd be ...
By SwirlyGrrl - 1/31/09 - 10:47 pm
But since he already repeated my initial investigation, I went into the store to rejoin my kids.
I agree it is best to be around, though. I once witnessed a dooring incident where a woman was left unconscious on the pavement. The motorist was freaking out, insisting we move her out of traffic (I asked her how much liability insurance she had ...), and screaming at me because she thought it was "weird and sick" for timing how long the woman was unconscious.
The first thing the EMTs asked: "Has she been moved?"
The second thing: "How long was she unconscious".
In this case it was more clear from the early time what was going on. By the time we left the store, the ambulance was pulling away and somebody was moving the minivan.
I was karmically rewarded with a half-price messenger bag and new headphones at moving sale prices, as the Fresh Pond Newbury Comix was having a moving sale that I hadn't known about ahead of time.
It's the Kitty Genovese Syndrome at work here.
By independentminded (not verified) - 1/31/09 - 11:07 am
The fact that the guy who'd collapsed on the MBTA train was just totally ignored by the MBTA staff is a total disgrace. The death of James Allen afew years ago should've been a lesson here. Who hired those people to work for the T? They should fire their asses at once.
Independent, thank your government
By operator - 1/31/09 - 12:04 pm
The government hires T employees. And, a lot of them are ex-students of the Boston Public School system....I'll leave it at that.
So?
By independentminded (not verified) - 1/31/09 - 12:22 pm
This:
imho, really doesn't excuse the fact that many of them are obviously poorly-trained in both etiquette and sense of responsibility. If there's anything to thank our government for, it's precisely that. Enough said.
they get trained, they just don't get it
By operator - 1/31/09 - 12:49 pm
an article in the Globe today on busing says that only 20% of Boston Public School students graduate college. What does that tell you.
Tells me
By anon (not verified) - 1/31/09 - 2:40 pm
that they shouldn't have been in college in the first place. It's like pushing people who shouldn't be in mortgages to buy houses.
Not everybody should buy a house, and not everybody should go to college. When you shouldn't and you do, you end up losing. Unfortunately, someone got the idea in his head that everybody should own a house and everybody should go to college. It's the American Way, innit? So these poor suckers who would have been better off as electricians' apprentices end up tens of thousands in debt with nothing to show for it.
From what I've read, the
By anon (not verified) - 1/31/09 - 3:28 pm
From what I've read, the training and testing is a joke.
Other professions have much more rigorous training, and they don't deal with thousands of commuters on a daily basis.
And don't forget
By Pete Nice - 1/31/09 - 4:08 pm
that the first one (wellesley man's death) was on the hands of Amtrak personell.
Well, still,
By independentminded (not verified) - 1/31/09 - 4:36 pm
As sad as this:
is, one doesn't have to be a college graduate to realize that etiquette and a sense of responsibility
are necessary for everybody if we're to survive in this world. What I mean is this: Whether the MBTA driver(s) are college grads or not, they were still obligated to stop the train at a place where the nearest hospital was located and help see to it that the patient in question got the fastest, safest, and the best care.
The Bigger Picture
By SwirlyGrrl - 1/31/09 - 6:58 pm
The MBTA seems to have a generalized inability to execute systematic response plans in emergency situations. Considering how "unrare" such issues as medical emergencies and the need to shut down segments of line seem to be, there is way too much "making shit up as they go along" and not enough implementation of preexisting plans for easily forseeable emergencies.
Like many who post here, I have traveled to other cities and used their transit systems. I have seen several systems with permanent signs directions in the station to guide you to buses in the event of an emergency shut down. The T seems to have this problem every other week and yet it is different every time. Nobody seems to know if there will be buses and where they will be picking up.
Even planned shut downs are not announced on the website, nor are there any directions as to where to go to get the buses. My dad is a retired transportation guy and he was bullshit when the only notice that the blue line was shut down was a hand-written piece of paper on a single entrance to the station - that made no reference to the need to walk two blocks to get the bus.
At least they seem to be doing less of the trapping people on trains inside the tunnels instead of moving each one to the next station or backing it up to the previous station.
Yes, fecal matter and compost happen - and they should be planned for, not blamed for the incompetence of a system that can't even come up with a bus schedule that isn't a work of high fiction!
well said
By david_yamada - 2/1/09 - 11:14 am
If they can't get the basic service stuff down, how can we expect them to have it together when emergencies occur?
To put it another way:
By independentminded (not verified) - 2/1/09 - 12:44 pm
This:
is the rub, david_yamada. No wonder MBTA emergency service is so poor! They don't even have the basic, ordinary services and communication systems down correctly.
New MBTA slogan
By Anonymous - 2/2/09 - 10:53 am
Come for the public transportation,
stay for the negligent death sentence.
Meanwhile, in NY ...
By Saul - 2/2/09 - 6:23 pm
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/02/strangers-on-a-train-share-a-new-york-moment/
A similar situation, in some regards.
Duh
By neilv - 2/2/09 - 7:19 pm
In the recent MBTA case, I didn't even think that people might have been reluctant to make an issue of the guy because it would delay their trip.
That attitude is an image people have of NYC (and, indeed, why I turned down some very tempting career opportunities there), but I suppose the attitude also exists in Boston, to some degree.