Berating fare evaders on the Green Line
By adamg - 2/2/09 - 9:22 am
Riggs reports he'd finally had enough: Even though the guy probably outweighed him by 140 pounds, as he got off at his stop, he berated the couple who got on the train then refused to pay:
... "It's not fair to skip fare. The rest of us paid. You should, too."
They looked stupid with their mouths hanging open, and I stepped off the train. They probably recovered quickly and laughed at the uptight geek in the suit and shiny shoes lecturing them about paying to ride public transit, but oh well.
At least I spoke up and said something.
Comments
Ugh
Dude, whatever, mind your own business. It doesn't affect you in any tangible way. You can skip paying the fare if you want to. If you prefer to be a moral person, so be it. Let karma take care of the cheaters and stop being such a whiny baby.
Amen Pat, amen!
Amen Pat, amen!
It doesn't affect me?
What's the weather like on your planet? It affects every paying T rider. Less Revenue for the T either means more fare hikes or less service. By not paying, it's contributing to the problem by providing less revenue
The T is at fault for allowing this to happen. It would be great if everyone was an upstanding citizen and paid their fare. However, don't say that this doesn't affect me, as it affects every honest person on the T.
I completely disagree with
I completely disagree with P.Pat
Public humiliation is karma and a great way to point out bad behavior.
Keep it up, and good on you.
Furthermore, in most
Furthermore, in most civilized societies tickets are checked randomly to catch fair evaders.
Go to Europe and you don't have turnstiles and it's much easier to get around a station, because they use the honor system and some really heavy fines if you are caught without a pass.
People like these massholes are the reason it would never work in US public transit.
..then again, they could always increase the fine and increase the checking policy.
Oh, spare me.
Fare evasion DOES effect those who pay their fare in a tangible way. It impacts the level of service we receive and encourages fare increases to compensate for evasion. The fare isn't a suggestion. Its the payment for a service. Not paying is a crime and has a detrimental effect on all other riders. We should see more peer pressure, not less.
Only not of caution I'd offer is that one should be mindful of stops where the T often decides to go express or otherwise take a train out of service, kicking out a bunch of fare payers to wait in the cold for the next train. Its a reason not to be quick to condemn, but assuming that wasn't the case, I see no reason to side with people who are stealing from public transit. I don't like the T much, myself, but that doesn't give me a right to steal a train ride nor does it make sympathetic to those who do.
Whiny Baby?
You dickweed. It affects every one of us when some douchebag decides he's so special he doesn't have to pay for what the rest of us do. The logic is so obvious, I won't even waste time putting it into words.
As for Karma taking care of them, I'm much happier when someone immediately points out, to as much of the world as possible, when an asswipe is being an asswipe. That way, Karma can take effect instantly.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
A wise man once said,
A wise man once said, '[Suldog], you know by tattling...you're really just tattling on yourself. By tattling...you're just telling them you're a tattletale. Now is that the tale you want to tell?'
Also, you're the dickweed, dickweed.
so, stop snitching? Bollocks
so, stop snitching?
Bollocks I say. Public humiliation is the best form of Karma.
Don't want to look like and ass, don't be an ass. Be a man and own up to your responsibilities.
Now That We've Pointed Each Other Out...
... I await Karma's choice between the two of us.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
it's a problem
I get pissed off at fare evaders too. A couple of times at State Street, I've had people run up right behind me as I'm going through the gate after swiping my card and then doing a double-quick in the opposite direction. I've noticed that happening a lot at that stop.
Unfortunately, it's awfully expensive to catch and prosecute fare evaders, and I have a feeling that's why the T cops don't take it seriously.
But based on how he refers to said fare evaders, maybe Riggs could soften the 'tude towards people who talk a little differently, lest he be characterized as one of our more parochial denizens:
Broken Windows Theory
When NYC started going after fare evaders, one cop described approaching each group of people rounded up with great excitement because it was like opening a Christmas present: so many of the people who jumped fares had outstanding warrants on them. They soon realized that it was an easy way to haul in large numbers of people who were wanted for often dangerous crimes.
People who habitually run lights, cheat on fares, and commit other "small" or "MYOB" crimes are people who think the law does not apply to them. Their attitude frequently doesn't stop at small crimes.
Indeed
It's amazing how many people with active warrants out get caught by Boston Police when they do dumb stuff like blowing through red lights or driving with a broken brake light.
I was quiete late paying a
I was quiete late paying a parking ticket once, and until I knew my check had processed I was the perfect driving citizen lol. Heck until I got confirmation that it was all set I even avoided driving sometimes, I dont know what they could have done for a small 15 dollar ticket not being paid but Im a wuss I guess. I dont know how I would act if I had a warrant out for my arrest.
are you kidding?
for a parking ticket? they wouldn't do anything if they pulled you over with an outstanding parking ticket. worst case scenario, if you NEVER pay the ticket, next time you try to renew your registration they will force you to pay the ticket (plus late fees) first, but they're not going to issue a warrant for your arrest for a lousy parking ticket.
I wa half joking yes...
I wa half joking yes... although I do think if there were a warrant out for my arrest I wouldnt be so cavalier as to run a red light or something.
not disagreeing
I'm not disagreeing with S'girl and Adam. Prosecuting the minor stuff can head off some of the bad stuff, and dumbsh*ts who do bad stuff often get tripped up on the minor stuff.
But I have a feeling the T is not looking at it from a social engineering standpoint. Actively prosecuting fare evaders means officers spending days in court, and devoting precious time of prosecutors, public defenders, and court personnel to fare beats, etc.
When I was a Legal Aid lawyer in New York, I represented one fare beat offender, and I shook my head at how many resources of the criminal justice system this guy ate up with his repeat performances. I don't think he ever graduated to more serious behavior; he just kept skipping over turnstiles and was dumb enough to keep getting caught.
A New York minute here
This has absolutely nothing at all to do with the Green Line or Boston, but one of the things New York's move to Metro Cards meant was the elimination of that unique species of token suckers, who would go up to a token slot, affix their mouths and suck and if they were lucky, they'd get a token to come up.
LOL...
Yes! The Token Suckers of the New York subway system!
After articles reported that particular perpetrator behavior, I started dropping my tokens very carefully, making sure my fingers never touched the metal of the token slot!
Here's an idea: First time
Here's an idea:
First time warning, second offense $150, any after that $500; all civil violation tickets.
Failure to pay within a year and you get a warrant slapped on you. As said, most upstanding citizens would have no issues with this, and it would stop fair evading in it's tracks.
those who continue to break it, who wouldn't pay, ect would be the ones that tend not to follow the law and already have misdemeanors or worse on their records.
And we could get rid of those shitty expensive turnstiles that break in the cold, or reject your pass for no good reason.
Priorities for the TRANSIT police
I don't know. Seems to me that fare evasion should be a primary concern for transit cops. What's the point of having laws if we're going to decide not to enforce them. As it stands, the transit cops aren't enforcing anti-smoking laws, littering laws, or fare evasion. They are TRANSIT cops, though. I mean, shouldn't fare evasion be a priority for them? I ride the T all of the time, and I hardly ever see transit cops. The only times I've seen transit police are when a train is being detained and searched or on New Year's when the Transit SWAT team was riding my trolley while armed with assault riffles and shotguns. I don't see why they can't be more visible. Surely they could use some of the time between more serious crimes (which they don't always even investigate) busting people for fare evasion and smoking. What I don't get is why transit crimes aren't a concern for transit police.
transit police
-they are understaffed and do not have a lot of time for minor stuff like fare evasion. They also look at money when it comes to enforcement issues. A (50K) a year cop getting paid for catching offenders that they might generate (20k) in fines for each officer?
-There are more serious problems on the T these days like these sexual predators and handbag snatchers. It happens more than you think.
-There are also a lot of undercover guys and gals that you don't see these days either that are going after these sex and larceny crimes.
-And again, the train is about getting there on time. Those green line fares that escape them could be collected if they made everyone get off and on the front of the train.
I mean, are we wondering why people aren't honest?
They wouldn't be criminals
They wouldn't be criminals if they weren't dumb, right?
Or they'd at least have the sense to commit white collar crimes where you can lawyer your way out.
NOTE: doesn't always mean people who are not the pillar of intellect are always criminals, just that most common criminals are always idiots.
EXACTLY
I wish Boston would do more in the way of giving a rat's ass about "petty" crime, for exactly this reason.
I agree, while I like the
I agree, while I like the fact that he spoke up and said something he had quite an attitude about it, and thats from his own blog! As they say your best face is presented in your own retelling of events, I wonder how snarky and whiney it came across in person for the other people on the train.
I never got the green line way of doing things, its kind of silly to not have everyone come in through the front doors. The few times Ive been on a green line train outside the city there have been maybe 15 percent of the students I saw avoiding paying the fares. Fast forward to life on the other lines and the buses, and its not quite so easy.
It’s bad engineering
It’s bad engineering meeting bad social behavior, especially when you collect fairs like they do.
There’s very little room to move through the isle, and people tend to crowd around doors and don’t move back / up the steps. So the train gets packed up front, and there’s no way to move people back once there’s a crowd. Furthermore, there’s no way to get off without the back doors opening if you are in the back.
What they should do is strip all seats out of the first car till you get to the connection to the second car. Better yet, have seats that fold up to the walls during rush hour.
It would make it easier to go to the back of the train, and people who want seats would be forced to move back as well.
It's serious now
The T cops are now writing a lot more citations. Like Swirly mentions below, they realize that criminals break all the laws, big and small. So, they know that they can catch some hardened criminals during encounters such as writing fare evasion citations. So, I say, rat 'em out. You might be helping more than you think.
Have some sack
I love how this yo-yo waited til he was exiting the train to speak up. Grow some b*lls, if you really wanted to impress me, you would have said something to them while you were on the train.
Thanks for further reinforcing the stereotype that bloggers can be real heroes from the safety of their keyboards and their parents' basement.
Dear dvdoff (not verified),
Dear dvdoff (not verified),
I got off at the very next stop, which was about 100 yards down the track and less than 10 seconds from their laughter about evading the fare.
Have a terrific day.
PS: Tell your mom I said hi!
Oh Snap!
Oh Snap!
No, it's....
Salted!
Says the guy from the "Burned!" era.
Sorry, was going by this
Sorry, was going by this flow chart:
Survey
Have you EVER seen anyone busted (officially, that is) for fare evasion, particularly on the B line at BU?
Damned if you do
Damned if you don't. If you don't make others pay their fare, then you're going to cost yourself and others in the long run due to increased fares for those who do pay. If you do try to make others pay, then you're going to be raked over the coals by all the "cool kids" on the internet who want to pretend like we're not all together in this social experiment called "Life".
The only way to do it is what you did and ignore the mouthbreathers who think they know best when they give you crap for doing it right. So long as the train isn't wall-to-wall with people, I will usually call on someone who didn't even show a hint of caring about paying to go to the front and pay. I will also continue to send suggestions to the T that they implement a more European style check-in system to avoid this problem in the end anyways. Christ, they act as if installing a second and third card reader at the back doors would require a brain trust to create a solution. They can create a handheld reader for guys to stand around in the cold and swipe cards at the stop in the morning, but they can't figure out how to bolt it to the pole just inside the car door with a "Swipe Here" sticker for instructions? Even doing just *that* without any enforcement or alert to the driver that someone had paid or not would decrease evasion as people swipe to be honest even if they're too lazy or uncommitted to walk all the way to the front now.
Oh please...
Yes fair evasion is a problem, and the MBTA is not set up logically to catch such people, especially above ground during non-rush hour. But read this guy's full post, he clearly did not like them based on their appearance and gross generalizations of their accents. I'm not saying what they did was right, but I bet he was secretly glad to have something to berate them about, as he said in the comments above, he only had to about 100 yards to even mention something to them.
When the MBTA started
When the MBTA started charging for outbound service on the B line, they promised that they'd also start staffing the trains that use above-ground service with staff to collect fares in all cars (at all doors). They have not done this, yet the easily could for cheap money. Figure you have to pay a T employee $15/hr to ride the rails and verify passes, collect fares, etc....they'd make up for that in just one trip of all fares being collected!
"Cheap Money?"
$15/hr X (about) 20hrs/day X 4doors/trolley = $1,200 a trolley for one day. Then we ask; "how many trolleys do they have? How is this "cheap money" again?
Plus benefits.
There's no such thing as "cheap labor" when it comes to public services! But the person above brings up a good point. These people got on at an above ground stop going outbound. This was something that was free two years ago!
I just noticed officers on
I just noticed officers on the B train this morning fining people for getting on without going up front to pay. My question is this- if the train is so crowded that you cannot physically walk up front to pay your fare, what are your options? And if you keep a T-pass on your Charlie card (NOT stored value, the difference is you've already paid MBTA for the T-pass) how are they to distinguish that you are NOT in fact cheating MBTA out of a fare, from those who carry a card with stored value?
On a personal note, I once went to the front door to duck in and pay my fare but got out to go to a center door because there was no way to get on up front due to crowding. The damn train operator shut the doors and took off before I could squeeze on, wasting my fare and further instilling the desire to flash my pass and jump into a center or back door the next time I got on at rush hour. How do you solve THAT problem?
What I don't get ...
They could improve service and fare collection by creating a fare-gated restricted access area at each stop.
Then you could just get on whatever door you got on, and it would provide a sheltered place to wait, too.
That's the plan for all future new Green Line stations
but I doubt there's room to squeeze such a thing in on the existing B, C, or E line platforms. Even on the D Line it might be a challenge at some stations. (Riverside station already has fare gates.)
gates on Comm Ave or Beacon St?
Those platforms are small enough as it is and I would think the cost of building them would outwiegh the number of people who sneak on...
What about card/ticket swipe
What about card/ticket swipe boxes at all doors?
To help enforcement, driver can have an indicator of each successful swipe at the rear doors, such as beeps or numeric counts, which s/he can mentally match well enough against people observed entering through the doors. (There are expensive high-tech ways to do this, but the driver can do it.)
Maybe the cars will even load faster, once more people can enter at the rear door. And you won't have the event I saw recently, in which a woman entered the rear car, the driver announced twice that people should come up, she held up something but seemed to have attitude and refused to go up or even turn around (she was seated facing rearward), so the driver left his seat and went back and verified that she did indeed have a valid pass.