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MBTA attempts new project it can't afford
By adamg on Mon, 03/23/2009 - 11:27am
Wicked Local Somerville reports the MBTA is looking at connecting the Red and Blue lines at Charles/MGH - and wonders:
Would be nice if they concentrated their money and time on ongoing projects like the Green Line Extension and solving disputes like the placement of the maintenance facility in Inner Belt instead of coming up with additional ones in this economy.
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Comments
I think connecting Red and
I think connecting Red and Blue is huge, currently those two lines are not connected at all. If anything a connector is more important then an expansion. Currently you have to go from Blue to Green to Red or Red to Green to Blue to cross over which is very inefficient and can add up to a half hour or more to your trip.
Should be on the "would be nice" list
A Red/Blue connector would be very expensive. For the cost of that single project, we could make several extensions of existing lines, which would be far more useful to attracting additional riders. The above mentioned Sommerville line, Arborway restoration, Orange Line to West Roxbury, F-Line to Dudley, full implementation of Indigo line, Blue Line to Lynn. Most of these projects could be done for the cost of the Red/Blue connector. Yeah, it would save folks in Cambridge a few minutes on their way to the airport, but I'd rather do all the other, more important expansions.
The connector has been in
The connector has been in the works for as long, if not longer than the green line extension.
Complaining about this now is like complaining about the big dig initial surveying fees
yeah! In fact,
I believe the Red-Blue Connector was one of the transit commitments as part of the original Big Dig deal. In which case, this is a case of MBTA following up on preexisting commitments, albeit a decade late.
It's the Law
Very true. As part of the Big Dig mitigation, and think they are legally bound to do the study
Yep
The T has tried to get out of this one. Got to give them credit for that.
But the Blue to Green to Red passenger traffic is a huge burden on the system between Government Center and Park St. Building this would be a really good idea.
As someone whos been stuck
As someone whos been stuck in the crunch I can tell you that the greatest burden is between Park Street and Government Center/Haymarket. There are obvious waves of people that are using it as a transfer to get from Blue to Red and from Red to Blue. Any additional expansions will just bring more people into this bottleneck which could very well cause the system to become so overwelmed in that one spot it could have cascading effects on all the other lines. You need to relieve the pressure.
Can't Afford This Project? How About This Idea
Before throwing scarce funds around to "extend" anything, how about fixing all those "signal/switching" problems and "schedule adjustments" on the Red Line. Get at least one line running at a first class level and then go on to bringing the Blue and Orange lines up to snuff.
What's the point of extending inferior service anywhere at this point? Just a thought.
I'm sure I'll get jumped on
I'm sure I'll get jumped on for saying this, but I feel like before even the Green Line extension construction begins, they need to fix what we already have. The existing Green Lines are awful, the Commuter Rail is so expensive and the schedules are so sporadic that they're not that useful, and the buses are unreliable.
Can we fix the existing MBTA before extending lines? Please?
I'll make you a deal, anon
You come and drive me to a rapid transit line every morning and I'll be willing to give up the green line for now.
Sound like a deal?
"I got mine and I want it to be better, so you will just just have to wait a few more decades so I can have even more while you get nothing" is not acceptable policy.
the EOT note that Wicked
the EOT note that Wicked Local links to is from a year and a half ago. Not exactly news.
Also, as previously mentioned, the Red-Blue Connector has been legally required to be built for almost 20 years now. Also not exactly news.
They also don't link to the press release mentioning the meeting tomorrow.
They just have to tunnel
They just have to tunnel like a half mile from Bowdoin to Charles/MGH... This is something NYC could do in like a month.
NYC is super like that
Just look how quickly they completed the Second Avenue Subway!
Or the third aqueduct
The construction of which is measured in decades.
be fair!
Tunnel number 3 is one of the largest public works projects ever undertaken, and it was *scheduled* to take decades. It's a totally different scale from a 200-yard run at subway depth... (and a much cooler project).
Yeah, Adam, be fair
That's totally not like the Second Avenue Subway at all! It's wicked quick in comparison!
Blue Line tunnel already goes part of the way
to around Russell Street, where the old portal was until the 1950s. I think the tunnel west of Bowdoin station is now used as storage tracks.
Before Orient Heights yard was built, Blue Line cars needing repair had to come out of the subway here, run across the Longfellow Bridge on their own streetcar tracks, and then be coupled to Red Line cars to be towed to the yard at Harvard Square.
Where do I sign?
I'm all for the Red Line / Blue Line connector.
One future project I'd also like to consider is a walkway between the Green Line at Symphony and the Orange Line at Mass Ave. Would do wonders for the commute of many ... and you can switch at Back Bay to get on Amtrak!
Duplication.
The walkway between Symphony and Mass Ave? It's called a sidewalk, and we've had them in Boston for a few years at least.
Indoor fare-paid connection
is what he wants, like at the Winter Street Concourse (Park to Downtown Crossing). it sounds like a reasonable idea.
Red/Blue connector is worthwhile
This project is legally required as a Big Dig mitigation, just like the Green Line extension to Somerville and Medford. It would improve the usefulness of both the Blue and Red lines, and improve the efficiency of the Green Line (removing a lot of Park<->Government Center traffic).
Pay for it by cancelling the widening of Route 128 and any planned 'improvements' to various interchanges along it. Extend the hours when people are allowed to drive on the shoulders if that it necessary to reduce congestion. This costs nothing.
Ever been broken down in
Ever been broken down in rush hour only to find there is no safe place to pull over because the breakdown lanes are being used as high speed lanes? I never understood the practice, rush hour is when you have the most people on the road. It would seem that this is also a time when there would be allot of break downs.
Pull all the way off the road, then
or take the next exit.
Nothing against the MBTA or riders but ...
We're talking about a road where the state made some emergency breakdown areas for people who break down in the breakdown lane. It's not particularly safe. "Getting off at the next exit" isn't going to cut it if your engine dies or you have a blowout. Also: There are areas where you can't simply pull off the road, because that would put you in the Charles River or a swamp.
Seconded
I find people driving in breakdown lanes remarkably scary (and dangerous) -- one of the worst ideas ever (absent special -- and very temporary -- circumstances).
Not to mention the chaos
Not to mention the chaos that ensues when you do pull over to the side of the road and now everyone who was travelling in the breakdown lane are forced to swerve back into normal traffic lanes.
Your right, not every breakdown is a weird sound in the engine or a wobble of the tire. Oftentimes its a massive blowout, or a blown piston where even if you wanted to get that car moving (and cause more damage to your car) again you couldnt.
the breakdown lane
Driving in the breakdown lane is a freakin joke. Who ever thought that was a good idea??? Lived here less than two years and I've seen two accidents involving people speeding down the "breakdown lane" only to either a- crash into the car, or b- swerve back into the other lane to avoid a disabled car, only to hit people driving in the normal lanes. That this is legal is just stupidity beyond measure. As for pulling into the grass, ever try to change a tire in the grass? Not gonna happen...
Wrong sir!
It costs the price of listening to you whine. Stay at your farmers market you creepy old man! or get a job and pay some more damn taxes!
Wake up people, the Green line extension isn't going to happen for at least a decade. Something will cobb it up, whether it is the self styling green people or the hippes or the poor folks, it will be 2019 before trains are running regularly if at all. The connector is much easier, though they will have to dig up Cambridge street for the third time in about six years (one for fibre optic, one for the recontruction that took too long since it was delayed due tot he DNC) and now this.
I only wish Boston was more like new york! make the homeless disappear and trap all the douches in their slumerville buroughs! A girl can dream!
HOWSE THAT IKEA IN SOMERVILLE????
Red/Blue Connex Costs
I would like to know just why everyone thinks that the connection between Bowdoin and Charles/MGH would be so expensive. Generally, the right of way acquisition is where the real money is on a project like this. If you tunnel deeply enough, you can avoid all of those pesky utilities that have thrown a very expensive wrench into so many projects around here (see, e.g., Kenmore project, Big Dig)
Fortunately, in this case, the ROW (presumably, the blue line would be extended a couple of hundred/thousand yards under Cambridge Street) is already publicly-owned (by the City of Boston). I would think that all you would need would be a stroke of the legislative pen, and presto, the City has to transfer a permanent subsurface easement to the MBTA for $1. If the City (or its Mayor) whines, it should be reminded that it exists at the pleasure of the Commonwealth. Next issue.
It would seem that easy, right?
Tunneling from Charles/MGH to Bowdoin might be a simple task (I will leave that to the engineers to comment on). However, you would need to tunnel past a lot of MGH. If you are a fan of MBTA projects, you might remember that the Silver Line needs to have tunnel connection near Tufts Medical Center--which the hospital is fighting because of the vibration and disruption to the Hospital. Perhaps ripping up Cambridge Street is an easy affair, but I would think that between Beacon Hill on one side (with possibly some Suffolk U property included) and MGH on the other, this will not be an easy project.
Subways were a lot easier to build in the 19th century and early 20th century.
Because of the station
I don't think the tunneling would be quite as cheap and easy as you suppose, but you're right, I don't think that's the main obstacle. The thing is, they just renovated Charles/MGH, and would have to go nuts with that place if they wanted to build a connection. True, a blue line station would need to go underground (and in itself would be a bitch to build), but it would still require a lot of surface work, would negate all the improvements done to make the station look all sparkly and shiny, and would likely cause the same -- if not larger -- clusterf^ck for traffic at Charles Circle...and for a damn long time, especially if lane closures on the Longfellow remain the norm.*
Which makes me wonder: was the recent renovation of the station, given the possibility of a future blue line connection, merely an oversight on the T's part, or was it a way to take the delay's onus off of them; ie. to make it seem like the public's fault that the connection won't be built (by virtue of public traffic/construction complaints)?
*I haven't been across the bridge in a long time, so the lane closures may be a thing of the past...though on that hunk o' junk, will they ever be?
Charles station
I think it was designed to allow, or at least not get in the way of building, a future underground level. Most likely any Blue Line track extension would end before you get to the circle itself. This is a connector for passengers, not for tracks and trains.
As for the bridge, all four lanes are now open to traffic, but the upstream sidewalk is still closed. The DCR is trying to finish repairing that so it can open by July 4. All of this work is still just an interim repair, though.
Charles/MGH built for future connector
I know that the new station and headhouse was built so that the red/blue connection could be done with minimal re-work at the new station. But I know the T sells projects as though they'll have no problem doing projects like these and they still end up botching it in the end. Regardless... there was some foresight on behalf of the T at Charles/MGH, but what level of foresight is the question.
Try this one on for size
Tunnel the Blue line down Cambridge Street to connect to Charles/MGH (a project I thoroughly approve of btw) and then keep on tunneling, under the Charles to Cambridgeside & on to Union Square in Somerville and then surface to follow the Boston & Lowell ROW to West Medford. Put all the money into one big project that will solve a lot of problems in one fell stroke.
Try this one on for size????
Othemts, I am not an engineer but it sounds to me like your "one big project," tunneling for miles under 2 cities and under a major river, would be a enormous undertaking. How could the financially strapped T afford something that gigantic? They ought to just fix what they already have and wait until they are in better financially shape before undertaking anything else.
Must be joking
And that would be two rivers, not one, to get to West Medford. The Mystic River crossing is the reason that the green line is slated to end at Rt. 16.
Either joking, or smoking ... it sounds good enough, but it would be difficult to outfit that corridor for the blue line type of train (third rail) instead of the trolley type with overhead wires.
Nope, would work fine
The Blue Line operates just fine above ground in East Boston and Revere. The corridor would be outfitted with catenary wire to be used by the trains already existing pantographs. And the tunnel would only have to extend a short distance into Cambridge before the trains could emerge on the Grand Junction right of way.
Not joking
Just thinking big. Why go for stopgap measures when you can build something that will last and change the system for the better.
Makes sense on the surface
... but "thinking big" in this case means increasing the cost of the project immensely, possibly by several orders of magnitude, and delaying the project by at least a decade. A blue line extension would take a decade before trains could even reach the right of way slated for the green line extension. The green line requires some surveying and preparation of the corridor.
Then there is the cost. Running a train line down an existing corridor is immensely less expensive than preparing new right of way. Add in the tunneling, plus the cost of getting the line under or over two rivers and it would take forever cost a whole lot more than just laying track starting with an existing line.
I want my kids to be able to take the new green line to work at jobs from Medford to Union Square and in town if that works for them as teenagers, which will happen on the current time line. I don't want to wait until their kids are teenagers for blue cars.
This is an important project
This connector would alleviate a tremendous amount of traffic at four major downtown stations, and for someone who lives in East Boston and needs to commute to the Red Line every day would be a dream come true. To have one subway line that does not connect to another is asinine, and hopefully will be fixed soon.
Indigo Line
Good story in the Glob today about the Indigo Line. Now there's a worthy project. Very encouraging.
This is the best single project the T could complete, IMHO. It will bring the T to the greatest number of unserved Bostonians.
Nice Map!
I'm a big fan of the Indigo Line, too. It potentially delivers the most bang for the buck. It is exactly this type of project that deserves our spending focus because it is fairly cheap and easy to do, yet yields a tremendous result.
The only missing piece is electrification. If they took that extra step, then the Indigo could run electric multiple unit trains in 1, 2, or 3 car combination with a very frequent headway. It would essentially become a true rapid transit line with electrification.
And who knows, a successful electrified Indigo line on the Fairmont branch might lead to similar efforts on all of the urban sections of our commuter rail. I could see the Needham line, and parts of the Worcester and Fitchburg lines working as something similar.
Kill the Octopus!
Stop adding fruit-flavor colored lines! Give me ONE RING to in the darkness bind them! I should be able to get from Brighton to BUMC in less than an hour...DURING RUSH HOUR! That's not even 5 miles! 5 miles an hour at RUSH HOUR!! Am I asking too much to be able to transit from Cleveland Circle to Lechmere in under an hour too? It's a 15 minute car ride.
As pretty as this picture is, it's also equally false in terms of distance and even direction to a lot of degrees. It shows MORE dots on the D line than the B line (I'm guessing they tried the right number of dots on the B line and it turned it into the White Line instead of the Green Line...).
If we're not talking honestly about what the big "picture" looks like than we're not discussing the right issues. We need a complete overhaul of the mass transit system in this town. Inside DC, people say "Why would we drive there when we can just take the Metro?". In Boston, people say "Who in their right mind would want to take the T when we can just drive there?" Adding the indigo line does nothing for the rest of the system except to add more chaos to South Station. We need an improved system, not more passengers, right now.
The Urban Ring needs to be
The Urban Ring needs to be worked on that is true, but dont take it out on the people who have limited options at the moment. We need the octopus, and we need the calamari rings as well. The problem is resources. The options you spoke about seems to benefit those who already have transit lines that service them. So they already have ok service, and you want good service. The people who are being served by the new "indigo" line have bad service and are looking for ok service. Im not saying your wrong, Im just saying that when you focus on the existing infrastructure your leaving out those who have always been left out.
Do you understand this project?
In response to Kaz:
The Indigo project is an effort to fix an existing rail line so that rather than being kind of useful to a few people, it is very useful to many. Fortunately, good rail service can be brought to Dorchester and Matapan without requiring a huge capital investment. We should do it because it's easy to do, and it helps a lot of people. I have sympathy for your argument, but as bad as the scenarios you present may be, they pale compared to the bus only options available in much of Dorchester and Mattapan.
The Urban Ring should be done, but it isn't close to shovel ready. It's going to take some years to figure out the optimal alignments, how to pay for it, etc. Yes, by all means, let's agitate and lobby for it, but not at the cost of something else that is also very worthy, and more importantly, ready to go.
Here's the problem
You all want to draw blue dots on the map to cover space. A very noble cause for being able to brush your hands off, wipe your brow, raise your fists above your head, and claim victory. But where would the Indigo line put people? South Station? If they wanted to go anywhere else? Say the blue line? Why, they could just go up to Park, ride the green to Gov't Center, and get on the blue! Yay, an existing problem just got worse by every single person now served by the indigo line who wants to get to the airport with their own expectations of "rapid transit". Drawing more people into South Station by light rail is not a solution for much of anything other than to pay lip service to those people who currently have to take heavy rail or drive directly to their destinations...as optimistically as possible it's still zero-sum for the entire system.
Instead, building a ring to go from UMass/Savin Hill/Fields Corner, through JP, up to Chestnut Hill, to Fresh Pond/Harvard, around to Charlestown (or even wider to Everett/Chelsea) and finally ends at the Blue Line. Make it high-speed for real and not some stupid shared path bus option. People on the "Indigo Line" would only need to get as far north as the ring by bus/car and then be able to go east to the Red Line or west to the Orange/Green Lines.
Want my layout for a *real* ring plan?: Start by splitting the Ashmont Red Line off of the Red Line and make it the Ring Line starting point where it splits off of the Red Line. Go through to Mattapan for real. Continue on to Fairmont. Extend the Orange Line south far enough to reach the ring as it passes by the Commuter Rail stations around West Roxbury and bring it north crossing the D and B lines near Chestnut Hill and BC. Bring it up near the river towards Fresh Pond, crossing through Watertown just west of Mt Auburn Cemetary, and head towards Tufts (follow Rt 16?) and follow onwards into Chelsea with a finish near the airport.
Nearly all of what I just laid out already has existing track/right-of-way to some degree and only a bit of it would require sharing with a road to some degree. Many of the Indigo Line commuters would probably be equally served by being able to get *around* town to other lines and options than just being taken downtown a bit more frequently than the commuter rail can already do for them (and you trust that just turning that line into "light rail" is going to improve the schedule?). It also means that their impact on the system would be spread around to multiple lines AND riders on the other lines would have a way to avoid the "everyone going downtown" mentality that pervades the Octopus system. We have a spoke-and-wheel system with no wheel! It's the ultimate cause for so many of the problems with everyone's commute. It means everyone piles in more and more as the trains get closer to the center of town. It means that the ends of the lines serve an equivalent vector of commuters radiating outwards as people drive to the rapid transit system as opposed to having an option to go "around *then* in" instead of "in *then* around".
Reaching out a little further and grabbing a few more communities into the existing system deals solely with the symptoms of sprawl and not with the efficiencies that make the system worth a damn in the first place. At worse, they exacerbate all of the pinch points created by the current load on the system.
Here's the other problem
The great is the enemy of the good.
Getting to South Station by T isn't a problem people living in the big trainless area of Dorchester are trying to escape. It's a problem they aspire to have. But you know better than that, eh?
It's all super duper for us who already have T access to talk about how cosmically fabulous it would be to make a ring, or a fishbone, or a ubiquitous grid, or a tesseract, but using that as an excuse not to extend currently nearby access to existing underserved populations would be hypocritical at best.
Response to Kaz
Look, I'm not opposed to the ring. In fact, I'd like to see the one you describe, and the close in ring that the MBTA envisions. But neither of those are realistic anytime soon, even though the 'T claims it as a priority. I believe we will eventually get one, but it is a far more complicated and expensive project than Indigo. I'm not saying do Indigo instead, just do it now. It won't disrupt the ring time line.
As for your practical complaint -- that it won't actually help the folks in Dot, I think you are wrong. Is Quincy worse off for the Red Line, considering it doesn't connect with the Blue? Of course not! Ideally, the Fairmont upgrdade is just the beginning of something bigger. If it can demonstrate that rapid transit class service is feasible on a rail line, then it might come to some other commuter rail corridors. And what makes you think this is limited to South Station termination? Fairmont is Indigo 1. If next is a line to Brighton following the Worcester ROW, a South Station bypass could be built that would make it a line running from Brighton, through the Back Bay, and on to Dorchester. That would be our first cross town service. Open your imagination a bit, and you'll see how this could be something much bigger.
If you haven't already looked at it, I highly recommend the future MBTA site. There are some fantastic maps showing a significantly expanded Indigo line (along with other cool stuff).
The need for an Indigo line
Sometimes a map is worth a thousand words. See if you can spot the part of Boston without any T stops within a half-mile radius.
Boston, or Boston Area
The MBTA is the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority - formerly known as the MTA, or Metropolitan Transit Authority.
The T isn't just about Boston - and if there is one area on that map of the metro area that has large areas with a long ride to mass transit, Somerville is about as underserved as it gets.
Which begs the question - when is the Corridor though Chelsea and Everett going to get some mass-transit loving?
There are lots of areas on that map
Just look at Brighton and Southie. The maps a bit misleading, though, because it only includes rapid transit stations. I would add commuter rail stations, which would, for example, fill in much of Roslindale and West Roxbury. There is another one kicking around somewhere that does that, and then it becomes even more obvious, just how much the Indigo corridor suffers next to most other parts of the map. Now I freely admit, the missing vector is population density. I don't have that data, nor do I have information regarding the time requirement for alternative commutes. But suffice it to say, there are definitely some sections of urban greater Boston without any rail transit.
commuter rail stations
Putting in the commuter rail would also highlight how underserved the green line extension corridor is - the first stop after leaving North Station is West Medford, with two more stops within two miles.
The green line extension is likely to stop a half mile short of West Medford, filling in all the space in between with stops.
Commuter rail stops would help Chelsea, but not Everett.
Adding the commuter rail in
Adding the commuter rail in does add a stop in downtown Chelsea, but as you said that does not help Everett. One thing with Everett though is much of it is actually fairly close to Downtown Chelsea, and other parts are close to Wellington as well. This is assuming that people actually like the commuter rail, which does not run often enough and is more expensive then a subway ride.
Looking at that map, assuming the Indigo line were to exist, Chelsea/Everett would be the next area that is severely under served. Chelsea is the second most densely populated city/town in the state (behind Somerville) and Everett I am sure is not far behind.
The MBTA seems to focus more on Boston and points south/west more then the northern tiers. The Greenline expansion into Medford/Somerville is needed greatly, the Blueline expansion into Lynn/Salem would be a huge boon, and it would be great if we could get Chelsea/Everett hooked into the system as well. All of those areas are heavily populated and the car culture reigns supreme because mass transit options are so limited.
I never say this
Who in their right mind would want to take the T when we can just drive there?
Driving is a dangerous, expensive undertaking that isn't worth all the hassle of being stuck in traffic and looking for (& paying for) parking. The T is the way to go for me and appreciate being able to be transported to just about anywhere I want to go without the stress and hassle.
I'm not sure your quote is accurate either since in my impression Washington is a much more car-culture centered city than Boston where public transportation seems to be more accepted.
Indigo Line is The Second Best Idea
Once they complete the green line extension, anyway. If you ever looked at a population density map with rapid transit lines superimposed, this Indigo line is the second best single project and would serve the second greatest number of unserved inhabitants of the metropolitan area.
(remember - the T isn't just about Boston, and Boston is freakishly tiny and bizarrely-shaped compared to most cities - I probably live closer to Boston City Hall than Adam does and I live in Medford - that would be unheard of in any other city)
Of course, that isn't to say that the Indigo Line isn't a fanatastic, high-bang-for-buck idea. This thing should be built too! We can't point to it, however, and declare victory for underserved populations when the green line extension is still waiting to serve one of the most densely populated corridors in the country.
Boston's shape
Eh, ever seen a map of the city of Los Angeles?
Back in my New Yorker days, I lived farther from New York City Hall than millions of New Jerseyites. I survived :-).
As for Boston, you can sum it up in two words: Blame Brookline!
For whatever reasons, Brookline refused to be annexed to Boston and, this being the traditional home of strong home rule, there was nothing Boston could do to force it, so we wind up with something that looks like a death match between an amoeba and a paramecium.
Blame Brookline?
Oh....not sure about that, Adam. The B, C and D trains all stop at Brookline stations that are just a stone's throw from downtown Boston and the various hospitals, and even though Brookline's technically not part of Boston due to refusal of annexation to Boston, with the exception of the part that butts up right next to Newton, I get the feeling of being in Boston whenever I go there for any reason, even though I'm technically not.
B train doesn't stop in Brookline, technically
Some buildings on the south side of Comm. Ave. between the BU Bridge and Packard's Corner are in Brookline, but the actual track and stations are entirely in Boston.
Did you read the note I was responding to?
It was a comment about how Boston has an odd shape on a map. And the reason Boston has an odd shape on a map is ...
Brookline's former Charles River waterfront
Is there any historian here who can answer this question: Did Brookline voluntarily give up its riverfront so that Brighton could be contiguous with Boston, or did the state legislature force Brookline to do this?
Act of the legislature
According to this history of Brookline (page 23). Scroll back a page or so and you'll see that Brookline actually annexed a small part of Roxbury at one point.
I'm Impressed!
That Ron knew that the buildings on the south side of Comm. Ave. were actually in Brookline for a stretch. I know that there are signs which indicate that, but still, I thought I might have been the only one that ever noticed them.
And kudos to Adam, who correctly answered that the legislature forced Brookline to cede to Boston the stretch it used to control along the Charles. As I have said in this space before, the several cities and towns of the Commonwealth exist at the pleasure of the Commonwealth, and the alteration of any of their boundries must be done through legislation.
Where Brookline begins...
There was a time when Boston meters ON Comm Ave cost $0.25 per 15 minutes for a maximum of 2 hours while Brookline meters OFF of Comm Ave in that area cost $0.25 per 30 minutes for a maximum of 4 hours. Half the cost and twice the length of time allowed! They are still a discount ($0.25 per 20 minutes) but they've also shortened them to 2 hours maximum. That's how I always knew the city line ran just past the Comm Ave sidewalk basically.
Sure
This:
I'm well aware of.
Development along the Indigo Line
Or, actually, the Fairmount Line at this point. It's already happening.
Just a thought
Seems a bit odd, anyone even remember that the North Shore exxists anymore? Lynn is as close to Boston as Quincy and has a population of 100,000. What about that blue line extension that we've been hearing about since 1980? Before we get too excited about further servicing south shore residents, we need to remember that Lynn, Salem, and Swampscott, Lynnfield and Danvers haven't gotten love either.
Also, forget the Red-blue connector, extend the lines, accessability is far, far, far more important than convinience. Let the Cambriddge people take longer to get to the airport if it means access for north shore folks.
Just a question
What factors go into the decisions of where to build and when?
If the Blue Line is extended to Lynn or beyond ...
the riders will start demanding the Red-Blue connector within days after the extension opens.
Um, people live on the Blue Line, remember?
Same kind of arrogant statement the MBTA loves to make. Thank goodness it's all about what Cambridge wants.
Does anyone remember that folks actually live on the Blue Line? Lots of folks? Or do you just see it as an airport shuttle? I know that's how the T sees it - whenever they try to squirm out of the connector they say "oh, well, we don't need that anymore - now Red Line customers can just transfer to the Silver Line to get to the airport!"
Convenience is not what's at stake here, by the way, no matter how you choose to see it. The Green Line is already an overtaxed dinosaur. Extending it (which I am in favor of) adds more people to the mix. Connecting the red and the blue would take a lot of people from Chelsea, E Boston, Revere, etc. out of that equation.
Not just the airport
Some Blue Line stations have gotten nice makeovers in recent years.
This would be great!
I used to live at Beachmont and work at Alewife. It was a nightmare getting to work and one of the main reasons I left that job.
Why not Walk?
Hmm, I am assuming most of us taking the T are not handicapped. Why is everyone talking about a 1/2 hour transfer from the blue to the red line? Isn't the best solution to go to bowdoin during weekdays and walk to charles? What is the big deal? It is less than 1/2 a mile.
.5 miles is the proven limit
.5 miles is the proven limit to many people taking mass transit, thats why people talk about .5 miles so often. .25 mile is the farthest that most people will travel for mass transit. So while everyone is capable of making the walk many do not want to, can not, or will not. Also while .5 miles is not that far many of us have to walk to get to our train/bus stop then walk to work from our last stop so when you toss in all of those .5 miles at some point your up to 2 miles... in the snow or rain... people will just take the car in that case.
Not everyone uses a monthly pass
And if you don't, the walking transfer means paying a second fare upon re-entering the subway system.