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And where is the money for
And where is the money for this coming from? And why are they extending the green line before ripping up the tracks and fixing the existing lines that run at approx 2mph? What the heck?
Doing this before other work:
Because it's been promised forever.
Because it's a huge hole in the service area.
Because Somerville has some of the lowest air quality in the country due to all the cars.
Required to build it... and it makes sense
It is one of the public transit commitments that are part of the Big Dig.
http://www.clf.org/programs/cases.asp?id=421
- The Feds are paying for
- The Feds are paying for much of it.
- Capital funds to build new infrastructure are entirely separate from those used to run and maintain existing infrastructure. If the Feds say "We'll give you $700B to build this" and the T says "No, we don't want to spend money on that", then T gets nothing.
- Furthermore, the idea is at least 80+ years old, and the state committed itself to building it after blowing billions to make it easier for cars to get around and pollute the metro area with the Big Dig.
What remote cave do you live in?
UHub alone has been explaining this for a very long time. Google is your friend, too.
This is being built because it was supposed to be built as a federally required offset for the big dig - except professional excuse makers decided they didn't have to when they overspent on car accommodations, and the CLF took it to the courts, and the courts said YES YOU DO NOW DO IT!
This is being built because Somerville and that piece of Medford constitute one of the most densely populated areas in the entire country AND they don't have a single rapid transit line.
Somerville typically is #3 to #5 most densely populated community in the US in any given census. Davis Square is their only rapid transit. Look at a map and see where the big hole is.
The right of way is there and has been there all along, which eliminates the largest barrier to rapid transit. There is no excuse for there not having been an extension 20 years ago, save lame excuses by people who want to screw those not in their direct constituent base and think transit is for losers who don't get state funded cars.
Boeing
In 2050, when the project has finally been completed, the Boeing LRVs will come back into service as antique nostalgia trains, similarly to the current Mattapan Line.
2050?
So you really want MA to pay the fines on that - court order says it has to be done much sooner.
Awesome
Those animations are great. But where's my house??
Gumdrop Trees
You have to hide behind all the gumdrop trees.
I wonder if you can buy gumdrop tree futures ... time to do it now before they need the delivery in six years.
Pretty pictures, but the devil is in the details
Apparently there are to be no maps, lighting, or communications systems at the new stations.
Maps I understand, the MBTA only drives home their inhospitability with ridiculously out of date maps posted in other stations. Clearly the ability to print & post the odd mappage every year or so pales in comparison to the effort in supporting, say, advertising.
Lighting seems one of those basic necessities, likely required under some sorta WHAT-THE-FRAK-WERE-YHEY-NOT-THINKING law. Y'know, so folks don't stumble onto the tracks aftyer sunset. Ruins a good rendering to show how it'll look on a dark & stormy night.
The communications systems, well that can be done in phases like the rest of the comms system. Speakers, maps with little lights, unreadable scrolling displays, more legible scrolling displays, animated displays, none of which ever manage to communicate anything actually useful or relevant but left around to rot in layers of grungy crud.
Finally, anybody at the MBTA ever notice we're in a temperate climate? Where's the rain & snow s'posed to go off of those nifty glass roofs? Down our necks as we queue onto the trolleys? Splash off of the pavement onto us from the utter lack of gutters or downspouts? Make nice puddles & icy patches?
Details
I'd imagine that details like maps, lighting, and communication systems should be pretty easy to come up with even if they're not in the drawings now.
The platforms, on the other hand, well, it seems to me you hit the nail on the head there. Precipitation is in the forecast, and if you're waiting for the train, it's going to land on you.
Each station has a great big building just to enclose, basically, a set of stairs, escalators, and turnstiles. Then you go back outside again and wait for the actual train. Okay, fine, that works at, say, Bunker Hill. But underneath a roof that looks about as useless as that weird pergola thing on City Hall Plaza?
That's not a detail. That's a major design flaw.
Mr. Form? Mr. Function is on line two. He sounds ticked.
I was trying to tell myself that the FMV station building renderings were done in simple shapes on purpose, much like the formless trees they used along the right-of-way. But looking at the elevation sketches on the rollovers, there may not be much else to it. Most of the designs look like someone shoved a cylinder into a cube and said "HEERZ YUR STASHUNS". And the flat, unadorned walls with random chunks cut in for windows at Lechmere, Union Square and Brickbottom make the stations look more like minimum-security prisons. Or elementary schools built in the 90s.
Some of the design decisions aren't even sound. That nearly-enclosed glass platform at Lechmere would be hell on a hot sunny day. Are they using the same firm that designed the Kenmore busway? There can't be too many people around with such a fetish for curving glass that serves absolutely no purpose than to look kinda trendy. At least, I hope not. The curving glass panels above the platforms offer no protection from the sun, and I bet they'll be lots of fun when snow piles on top of them in the winter, too. But this is the same criticism that's been given to Kenmore, and the T seems pleased as punch with it.
I can't find a single redeeming quality with these station designs. I love the line, I love that the Green Line will be coming through Somerville and Medford, but my god those are hideously ugly stations.
I have the feeling that as bad as they look now, they'll look horribly outdated by the time the project's done which, given the inevitable overruns and delays, will be 2018 at the least.
This is obviously passive-aggressive design from the T in response to the entire community telling it to Stop Whining, Stop Procrastinating, Stop Trying To Get Out Of This And Build The Goddamn Extension Already. It's like they're saying "Okay, you want the Green Line? You'll get it, all right, and it'll be ugly as sin."
I also hope the curvy glass
I also hope the curvy glass is some sort of stock texture they had in their rendering kit, and not what they actually plan to build. But, I also want to correct a slight inaccuracy. The T is not designing this. The T has virtually nothing to do with it right now. The state office of transportation is going to design it, build it (with lots of federal funds too, yes), and then give it to the T and say "OH HAI, HERE'S SOMETHING ELSE YOU GET TO RUN NOW WITH ALL YOUR COPIOUS EXTRA CASH."
I stand corrected.
Guess I should've paid more attention to the big EOT logos on the videos. Thank you for the pointer.
Sadly ugly is still ugly, no matter who designed it. I can take out all that MBTA passive-aggressive stuff, but it still doesn't make the stations any nicer, or fit them in any better with the neighborhoods they'll serve.
Mellow out, man.
Seriously, this early in the game is called "schematic design", or perhaps at this point "conceptual" or "pre-schematic" might be more accurate.
These drawings and the design process are nowhere near completion. Lighting and maps show up late in the design process. If the MBTA threw these images out there to generate (constructive) criticism, well, maybe they're on to something.
I hope they're on to
Putting a real roof over the boarding platforms. Because it sure looks like a world of suck at this point.
Like I said, I hope they
Like I said, I hope they were simply rendered on purpose.
And if not, then they deserve every bit of vitriol coming their way.
Flat Packed Stations
They will have to get them from the Orange Line over to the Green, then take them out one-by-one to assemble them.
The trickiest part will be figuring out how to position and turn those giant S-shaped hex wrenches that come with each IKEA Green Line Extension Station Set.
That would be the IKEA
SMÖRJA series. Available in "brick-effect."
Stations? What stations?
Hey, it's a trolley -- why aren't they just platforms, like almost everywhere else on the surface segments of the Green Line? What's with the fancy-schmancy "designs" and the justification for elevators and escalators?
Because its not on the
Because its not on the surface?
Oh.
That's very different then.
Yeah.
The Green Line extension is using the existing Lowell commuter rail right-of-way (and the Fitchburg line for the Union Square spur.) The Lowell line tracks were cut into the side of a hill, so it travels below street level during the part where it parallels Highland Ave and on past Ball Square.
Not the surface?
All the animations show the train pulling up with the ground underneath it and the sky above it. Is this not the surface?
On the other hand, those great big buildings may be necessary to avoid putting in a sloped brick sidewalk.
Stuck in a rut
Like the rest of the T.
Except for my station at the end - that one goes up to the level of the commuter rail bridge.
That made me happy - it means they are planning to possibly get it over the river at some point.
Semantics
So grade-separated does not qualify as surface for these purposes?
I couldn't find an authoritative industry definition, but using layman's terms, a line would have to be either underground (below the ground) or elevated (above the ground) in order not to be surface (on the ground).
The tracks are in a cut-away...
... out of the hills of Somerville, well-below street level (the bridges of McGrath Highway, Cross Street, Walnut Street, Medford Street, School Street, Sycamore Street, Central Street, Lowell Street, Broadway [below Ball Square] all cross above at "street" level). Also in Medford Hillside (College Avenue, Winthrop Street, and North Street).
The track is on bridges over Washington Street, Harvard Street (Medford) and Rt. 16, and at grade at Brickbottom, Union Square, Cedar Street, Arlington Street, High Street.
If they were roofed over, we'd call them "tunnels", eh?
Ridership projections
Ridership projections indicated that the passenger volume would be high enough to make pay-while-boarding a complete nightmare. And, new stations have to be ADA-compliant.
Also, the T, EOT, whoever,
Also, the T, EOT, whoever, whatever, is ADAMANTLY opposed to letting people walk across the Green Line tracks, so access to the center platforms has to be by an overhead walkway, even if you're not having to cross the commuter line tracks. This means stairs/escalators, elevators, big structures. This came out in the meetings - they won't even consider a plan where you just walk across one track on grade to get to the other.
Can't blame them
I'm sure they're making this decision based on all of the deaths that kept occurring at the St. Mary's Street Stop where the Green C Line comes above ground and they used to have a crossover point at the end of the station. So, you really can't argue with their experience on this.
[size=10]Yes, I'm being facetious.[/size]
I hope...
that they've ordered a bunch of new trolleys, so service on the extension won't come at the expense of the rest of the line, as happened with the Greenbush Line on the commuter rail. Ask any rider on the Kingston/Plymouth or Middleborough/Lakeville Lines how well that went.
Green Line service from North Station and Government Center to points west is inconsistent enough as it is; imagine how much more unpredictable it will get if the same number of cars have to service these seven new stops and additional miles of track...
Yes, that's in their "to do"
Yes, that's in their "to do" list of requirements. Along with a maintenance & storage facility along the extension. (And that opens a whole can of worms, since they're bound and determined to put it the one place Somerville doesn't want it.)
Anne
Some general questions - maybe some of you smarties can answer
-Whats going to be the average speed of the line? What is the average travel time from park to the end?
-Does the legal commitment specifiy when the extension is to be built vs actually run? My understanding is those crappy green line cars take years to build and to really provide service, you'd need more trains
-How many old people will complain about the noise and how 'things aaah just fine in somahville now, guy! ah donnna want dem darkies hear!" to prevent the line from actually being built?
-How long before the ghetto kids break the glass walls and roofs in the stations or carve their names in after robbing someone walking to Lechmere from the Cambridgeside Galleria?
-How many of you armchair liberals are willing to pay more for a T ride when they rachet to price up by 40% by the time this is built?
Some answers.
1. Faster than any commute from the neighborhood so far, by T, car, or bike.
2. No idea.
3. Not enough for anyone to care. They die. They move to Florida. Yuppies like me move in, and I'll be damned before I let negrophobia stand in the way of decent urban development in my area. And the demographics are on my side.
4. Kindly ingest feces and depart this vale of tears, sir. We live among these ghetto kids, and they're harmless. But this armchair liberal is pretty sick and tired of watching his tax money go toward projects that inflict asthma on these kids, and is very glad to see some action that is helping the problem instead of making it worse.
5. I'll gladly ay 40% more rather than 400% more to gas my car. You are ready for THAT, I hope?
No. 1
I bet my scooter will go faster from the end of line to Government Center than this line.
I have found this to be true for every line in the city (even the red line). (as in "I don't have an extra helmet, take the subway right here and I'll meet you where it lets out" and I win, every time).
Not about getting downtown
At least those of us out on the far end of the line, it certainly isn't. I have the commuter rail and express buses for that, and they go quite quickly.
The green line extension is much more about connecting up what is in between Medford and Downtown, e.g. most of Somerville. This area, despite its density, is currently dependent upon a patchwork of highly unreliable bus service that does not conveniently connect much of anything, or go straight from anywhere to anywhere. This is particularly true if you want to get from Somerville to Somerville to, say, buy groceries, because the T systems are largely designed for downtown commuting rather than community connection. The green line extension accomplishes both, and will also connect places where people live with nearby jobs (e.g. areas of Somerville with shuttle services from Lechmere to Kendall Square).
So it doesn't matter that your scooter would make that trip more quickly - so does the commuter rail, and riding a bike from Rt. 16 to Government Center is a 40 minute prospect, too. What matters is that you don't have to take three buses (or make three connections) and over an hour to make that trip if you don't or can't own or use a scooter or a bike. What matters is that you can get from Medford Hillside to Union Square to connect into areas of Somerville and Cambridge, etc.
For example, my husband works between Kendall and Inman, it is a two- or three-bus hop that takes well more than an hour (this is a 30 minute bike ride). Folding bike to green line would be about 35-40 minutes for that journey - even if the green line took 25 minutes from Hillside to the station nearest to that area. Green line to a single bus would be more reliable than those two or three buses, too. If you live in Somerville and work downtown, it also means not having to ride buses that run on random schedules and wandering routes to get to Lechmere or Kendall or Sullivan. A coworker of mine living near Union Square claims that even a half hour trip on the green line would mean a half hour less each way for both her and her husband.
(I also find it amusing that our anonymous question asker above, who is clearly not from Medford or Somerville, is claiming something about people complaining about city minorities invading. Meanwhile the extension's most raving lunatic detractor is constantly blathering about protecting the "environmental justice areas" because the terminus is in a historic Black community and Medford is a very racially and culturally diverse city already (coach soccer and you see it!). I'm not sure how we would tell their youth from our own. The noise issue is ridiculous - there are diesel freights and the Downeaster running on this line already!)
Winge, Winge, Winge
I think they look pretty classy. Hopefully they hold up better than the glass at, say Porter. And it's cool that Lechemere II will be elevated.
And I'd still rather pay $8 to get into the city (say, to a sox game) than $40 for parking plus the hassle of fightign the clusterfuck traffic.
Lechmere II being elevated? Interesting,
given the fact that elevated trains and train stations have been coming down throughout the United States, because they're no longer in vogue.
Elevated?
Why is an elevated train station desirable?
Would you rather have
the Green Line cross O'Brien Highway at grade? The locals are unhappy enough over the "super crosswalk" proposal that Northpoint has been advocating and the DCR is supporting.
But it doesn't cross Msgr
But it doesn't cross Msgr O'Brien Hwy - it stays to the northeast side until beyond Washington Street. (That's why the hated crosswalk would have to exist, to link it to E Cambridge.)
Anne
Elevated trains aren't necessarily desireable,
which is why so many of the els are being dismantled nationwide.
Wow, you guys can take the
Wow, you guys can take the fucking joy out of anything.
Unemployed people have
Unemployed people have nothing to do but read blogs and spew their bile. If they didn't spend so much time reading blogs and twitter feeds, maybe they'd still have jobs. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.
Outdated
These stations are going to have the same feel as the orange line stations do now. Why they can't just build a simple functional station is beyond me. Roof over the platforms, stairs from a pedestrian bridge above. DONE.
Also those island platforms are going to be murder if the line is a success. I suspect massive crowding if people are waiting for a train and one unloads on the other track.
I want this to be done as
I want this to be done as soon as possible.