Hey, there! Log in / Register

A woman's home is her man's castle, court rules

The Massachusetts Appeals Court today threw out the conviction of a man police found with an illegal loaded gun, ruling police improperly went after him in his girlfriend's apartment building even though the pair raised suspicions when they barred the door in officers' face in an apparent escape bid.

The court ruled that two Boston officers investigating a Mission Hill break-in early on the morning of Sept. 2, 2006 didn't have sufficient cause to enter the building after they questioned the man as he and the woman walked along Darling Street to her residence at 30 Darling St.

According to the decision, the couple went inside the building as police looked at his Mass. ID card, then he went up the stairs while she stayed at the door.

The court ruled the man did not match the description given out by a police dispatcher for the break-in suspect and up until the point the two tried to leave, they did nothing to give police any reason to suspect they had just been involved in a crime. The court allowed as how people walking around Mission Hill at 5 a.m. could raise suspicions - as could the manner in which the pair left the officers and then locked the building door. But:

Nonetheless, the combination of those factors did not accumulate to a level of reasonable suspicion that the defendant had committed, was committing, or was about to commit, a crime. Nor did that combination equal a reasonable belief that the defendant was armed and dangerous.

Therefore, both the rush into the building and the pat frisk that revealed the gun, violated the man's constitutional rights, the court decided.

The ruling follows:

NOTICE: The slip opinions and orders posted on this Web site are subject to formal revision and are superseded by the advance sheets and bound volumes of the Official Reports. This preliminary material will be removed from the Web site once the advance sheets of the Official Reports are published. If you find a typographical error or other formal error, please notify the Reporter of Decisions, Supreme Judicial Court, John Adams Courthouse, 1 Pemberton Square, Suite 2500, Boston, MA 02108-1750; (617) 557-1030; [email protected]

COMMONWEALTH vs. Jose M. MARTINEZ.

No. 07-P-1424.

November 4, 2008. - May 11, 2009.

Practice, Criminal, Motion to suppress. Search and Seizure, Threshold police inquiry, Probable cause, Protective frisk. Constitutional Law, Search and seizure, Stop and frisk, Probable cause. Arrest. Probable Cause.

COMPLAINT received and sworn to in the West Roxbury Division of the Boston Municipal Court Department on September 5, 2006.

A pretrial motion to suppress evidence was heard by Kathleen E. Coffey, J.

An application for leave to prosecute an interlocutory appeal was allowed in the Supreme Judicial Court for the county of Suffolk by Judith A. Cowin, J., and the appeal was reported by her to the Appeals Court.

Kathleen Celio, Assistant District Attorney, for the Commonwealth.

Rose E. King for the defendant.

Present: McHugh, Sikora, & Rubin, JJ.

SIKORA, J.

The Commonwealth takes this interlocutory appeal from a Boston Municipal Court judge's grant of the defendant's motion to suppress evidence and statements. The issues arise from a stop, pat frisk, and arrest of the defendant on a porch and in the common area of an apartment house in the Mission Hill section of Boston. The pat frisk produced a handgun and ammunition. After the
defendant's arrest, police officers also found a substance believed to be marijuana and a pill of apparent Class E character in the possession of the defendant. The defendant sought to suppress that evidence as well as statements made to officers after his arrest. We affirm the judge's order suppressing the evidence and statements. The ground of decision is that the stop and pat frisk lacked the support of reasonable suspicion.

Background. In the absence of clear error, the motion judge's findings are final. Commonwealth v. Yesilciman, 406 Mass. 736, 743 (1990). We supplement those findings with uncontested testimony from the motion hearing. See Commonwealth v. Isaiah I., 448 Mass. 334, 337 (2007), and cases cited (appellate courts "may supplement a judge's finding of facts if the evidence is uncontroverted and undisputed and where the judge explicitly or implicitly credited the witness's testimony"). In this instance, the detail and clarity of those findings are especially helpful for the application of appropriate doctrine.

The only two witnesses to testify at the hearing were Boston police Officer Michael Flaven and Marielis Rosado, the defendant's female companion at the time of the events in question. At the end of the hearing the judge stated, "I found the officer to be very credible, and I thank him for his honesty.... I find him to be a credible, hardworking officer who was investigating a legitimate 911 call." At the same time, the judge derived critical findings from Rosado's testimony. See Commonwealth v. Moon, 380 Mass. 751, 756 (1980) ("The determination of the weight and credibility of the testimony is the function and responsibility of the judge who saw and heard the witnesses ..."). Although the judge's findings describe Rosado as the defendant's "girlfriend," Rosado did not use that term to describe their relationship. Nevertheless, in light of the testimony of the two witnesses, which the judge credited either explicitly or implicitly, the finding that Rosado was the defendant's girlfriend is not clearly erroneous.

On Saturday, September 2, 2006, at approximately 5:00 A.M., Officer Flaven and Officer McDonough received a dispatch on their police radio stating that a 911 caller had reported an attempted breaking and entering of a residence at 13 Sachem Street in the Mission Hill neighborhood. The dispatcher described the suspect as a twenty-four year old white male wearing blue jean shorts and a gray T-shirt with orange stripes and "some kind of writing on the front."

[FN1] In uniform and in a marked police vehicle, the officers drove past 13 Sachem Street and did not see any evidence of an attempted breaking and entering. The officers had not noticed any pedestrians or moving vehicles in the vicinity until Officer McDonough saw the defendant walking on Hillside

Avenue, which runs perpendicularly to Sachem Street. The officers noticed that the defendant was wearing a white T-shirt under a long-sleeved, multicolored, button-down shirt and was accompanied by a woman, later identified as Marielis Rosado.

The officers wanted to question the defendant to determine whether he was involved with the attempted breaking and entering reported in the dispatch. The series of one-way streets in the neighborhood required them to drive around the block to approach the defendant. When they reached him, he was walking with Rosado on Darling Street, which runs in parallel to Sachem Street and perpendicularly to Hillside Avenue. As he walked, the officers drove alongside him. One of the officers asked him his name. He replied truthfully, "Jose." The officers noticed that the defendant was Hispanic and had light-colored skin. He appeared to be in his early twenties. He appeared also to be nervous.

After the defendant's response, the officers stopped their vehicle and got out. They followed the defendant and Rosado up a set of stairs onto the front porch of 30 Darling Street, a small three-story apartment house where Rosado lived. As Officer Flaven approached the defendant, he noticed that the defendant's shirt was long-sleeved and gray with "a little bit of blue in it," as well as with vertical "orange stripes." Officer Flaven noticed also that the defendant had a cast on his arm. [FN2] The defendant had not attempted to flee from the officers nor had he made any furtive gestures. [FN3]

On the porch, the officers asked the defendant for identification. He produced a Massachusetts identification card. As they examined the card, the defendant and Rosado entered the apartment house. The defendant then locked the building's front door. [FN4] He stood behind Rosado, put his hands on her hips, and whispered something in her ear. [FN5] He then walked up the flight of stairs inside the front door. [FN6]

Rosado remained immediately inside the door. Officer Flaven told her, "Open the door or I'll fucking kick it in." She was afraid that, if she did not open the door, the officer would have forcibly entered the building and caused property damage. So she unlocked and opened the door. Officer Flaven entered the building and climbed the stairs to meet the defendant. He grasped the defendant and brought him downstairs and outside. Officer McDonough conducted a pat frisk of the defendant and found a loaded handgun. Officer Flaven then asked the defendant for his license to carry a firearm. The defendant told the officers that he did not have one. They placed him under arrest.

As the officers led the defendant away from the building, he said to Rosado, "Bye, bye baby, see you later. I am going away for a long time." At the police station, Officer Flaven advised the defendant of his Miranda rights. The defendant told the officer that he had found the gun and that he carried it because he had been shot at twice. Police searched the defendant during the booking process and found marijuana and a small blue pill. With regard to the pill, the defendant, without being asked, told Officer Flaven, "It's Viagra. The girl I was with tonight. I was going to use it with her." [FN7]

The motion judge concluded that the officers had not seized or stopped the defendant when they had stood on the porch with him, asked for identification, and received his identification card. She concluded further that Officer Flaven's warrantless entry into 30 Darling Street was unlawful because it lacked the support of probable cause and exigent circumstances or consent. She suppressed all evidence seized from the defendant and all of his postarrest statements as the products of the unlawful entry.

Discussion. From the findings by the motion judge, we "make an independent determination of the correctness of the judge's application of constitutional principles" to those facts. Commonwealth v. Mercado, 422 Mass. 367, 369 (1996). The reviewing court may affirm a suppression decision upon any ground supported by the record, even if the motion judge did not rely upon it. Commonwealth v. Va Meng Joe, 40 Mass.App.Ct. 499, 503 n. 7 (1996), S. C., 425 Mass. 99, 102 (1997). Commonwealth v. Eggleston, 71 Mass.App.Ct. 363, 367 n. 4 (2008), S. C., 453 Mass. 554 (2009). We conclude that the stop and frisk of the defendant lacked the support of reasonable suspicion under the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution standards of Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 21-22 (1968), and Commonwealth v. Silva, 366 Mass. 402, 405 (1974). That deficiency provides an independent and alternative basis for suppression of the evidence and statements.

1. The stop and frisk. (a) The stop. Under Massachusetts law, a police officer has seized a person "if, in view of all of the circumstances surrounding the incident, a reasonable person would have believed that he was not free to leave." Commonwealth v. Borges, 395 Mass. 788, 791 (1985), quoting from United States v. Mendenhall, 446 U.S. 544, 554 (1980) (opinion of Stewart, J.). When an officer pursues a person and the pursuit, viewed objectively, indicates that the person is not free to leave the area without responding to the officer's inquiry, the officer has seized that person. Commonwealth v. Stoute, 422 Mass. 782, 789 (1996). An officer may seize a person if he reasonably suspects that the "person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime." Commonwealth v. Silva, 366 Mass. at 405. That

reasonable suspicion must "be based on specific and articulable facts and the specific reasonable inferences which follow from such facts in light of the officer's experience." Id. at 406. "The facts and inferences underlying the officer's suspicion must be viewed as a whole when assessing the reasonableness of his acts." Commonwealth v. Thibeau, 384 Mass. 762, 764 (1981).

We must allow officers "to take account of the possibility that some descriptive facts supplied by victims or witnesses may be in error." Commonwealth v. Emuakpor, 57 Mass.App.Ct. 192, 198 (2003), quoting from 2 LaFave, Search and Seizure § 3.4(c), at 241 (3d ed.1996); 4 LaFave, Search and Seizure § 9.4(g), at 201 (3d ed.1996). Thus, reasonable suspicion can exist "absent a full match-up of all parts of the description." Ibid. Yet "[n]either evasive behavior, proximity to a crime scene, nor matching a general description is alone sufficient to support the reasonable suspicion necessary to justify a stop and frisk." Commonwealth v. Mercado, 422 Mass. at 371.

At no point during the encounter did the officers reasonably suspect that the defendant had committed, was committing, or was about to commit a crime. See Commonwealth v. Silva, supra at 405. The defendant's appearance did not sufficiently resemble the dispatcher's description of the person who had
allegedly attempted a breaking and entry. The defendant is Hispanic and has light-colored skin. The dispatcher described the suspect as white. The defendant was wearing a white T-shirt under a long-sleeved, button-down shirt, and he had a cast on one arm. His shirt was multicolored, with both blue and gray elements and some orange stripes. The dispatcher described the suspect as wearing a gray T-shirt, with orange stripes and with script on the front. The dispatch did not refer to a long-sleeved shirt or to an arm cast. The defendant was wearing long pants, not blue jean shorts.

The presence of Rosado, the defendant's girlfriend, has significance. The dispatcher did not cite the accompaniment of a woman. When the officers first spotted the defendant, he was with Rosado. Her presence, viewed objectively, decreased suspicion that the defendant was the person who allegedly had attempted the breaking and entry.

(b) The frisk. An officer may frisk a person for weapons if a reasonably prudent person in the officer's position "would be warranted in the belief that the safety of the police or that of other persons was in danger." Commonwealth v. Silva, 366 Mass. at 406. "[T]he officer need not be absolutely certain that the individual is armed," ibid., but the officer must be aware of specific facts warranting a reasonable person to fear for his safety. Commonwealth v. Va Meng Joe, 425 Mass. at 102 & n. 7.

Here the officers' observations do not support a reasonable belief that the defendant was armed and dangerous. See Commonwealth v. Silva, supra. The dispatcher did not report that the person who attempted the breaking and entering was armed. See Commonwealth v. Murphy, 63 Mass.App.Ct. 11, 18 (2005), and cases cited (lack of reports of weapons at crime scene was one factor contributing to conclusion that frisk was unlawful). Nor did any element of the defendant's conduct suggest that he had a weapon or that he intended to harm anyone. The officers did not see the defendant assault, or attempt to assault, anyone. See ibid. (no observation of assaultive conduct was another factor contributing to conclusion that frisk was unlawful). He made no furtive gestures, such as grabbing his waistband or shielding part of his body from the police, and the officers did not observe a bulge in his clothing. See Commonwealth v. Johnson, 413 Mass. 598, 601 (1992) (officers' observation of defendant reaching into his pants was one factor supporting a lawful frisk); Commonwealth v. DePeiza, 449 Mass. 367, 371-372 (2007) (defendant shielding bulge in his jacket from police contributed to finding of reasonable suspicion to stop and frisk); Commonwealth v. Murphy, supra (frisk unlawful where, in addition to other factors, police did not see a bulge or furtive gestures). [FN8] In short, a reasonable person would not have feared for his safety after witnessing the defendant's behavior. See Va Meng Joe, 425 Mass. at 102; Commonwealth v. Gomes, 453 Mass. 506, 512-514 (2009) (insufficient facts to support a reasonable inference that the defendant was armed and dangerous). More than any other factor in this case, the invalidity of the frisk bars the resulting evidence.

(c) Countervailing evidence. The defendant's proximity, in both time and location, to the reported attempted breaking and entering would draw police attention. The streets of Mission Hill were deserted at 5:00 A.M. Compare Commonwealth v. Carrington, 20 Mass.App.Ct. 525, 529 (1985) (two factors supporting probable cause for arrest were early morning hour and short distance between location of stop and crime scene); Commonwealth v. Quinn, 68 Mass.App.Ct. 476, 480 (2007) (stop was proper where motor vehicle was driving away from crime scene within minutes of crime and was only vehicle on road). The defendant's abandonment of his identification card by retreat behind a locked door created some suspicion. Compare Commonwealth v. Sanchez, 403 Mass. 640, 645 (1988) (flight from police after consenting to search and before police pursuit provides reasonable suspicion). Nonetheless, the combination of those factors did not accumulate to a level of reasonable suspicion that the defendant had committed, was committing, or was about to commit, a crime. Nor did that combination equal a reasonable belief that the defendant was armed and dangerous. [FN9]

We do not decide whether the officers seized the defendant on the porch prior to his entry of 30 Darling Street, although that conclusion could be reasonable. [FN10] Compare Commonwealth v. Barros, 435 Mass. 171, 175- 176 (2001) (officer's pursuit of defendant by leaving cruiser, approaching him after being rebuffed, and ordering him to "[c]ome here" was highly relevant in determining whether defendant was seized); Commonwealth v. DePeiza, 449 Mass. at 370-371 (defendant not seized because officers used conversational tone, did not block defendant's path, and did not order defendant to stop or answer questions), and cases cited. At the latest, the defendant was seized when Officer Flaven grasped him on the stairway. [FN11] A reasonable person would not feel free to leave when a police officer had mounted a flight of stairs and taken hold of him after ordering his companion to open a locked door and threatening to kick it in. See Commonwealth v. Pimentel, 27 Mass.App.Ct. 557, 560 (1989), quoting from United States v. Mendenhall, 446 U.S. at 554 (opinion of Stewart, J.) (two examples of police conduct evidencing a seizure are "physical touching of the person of the citizen" and "use of language or tone of voice indicating that compliance with the officer's request might be compelled"). It makes no difference, though, whether we determine that the seizure or stop occurred when Officer Flaven grasped the defendant or

at an earlier point in time. Under either analysis, the officers did not have reasonable suspicion that the defendant was involved in criminal conduct or a reasonable belief that he was armed and dangerous. [FN12]

2. Unwarranted entry of the residential building. At the conclusion of the evidentiary hearing, the judge invited the oral argument of all counsel upon the issues of both the validity of the stop and frisk and of the police entry into the residential building without a warrant. The Commonwealth responded that the entry had resulted both from the consent of Rosado because she had unlocked and opened the door and from the exigent circumstance of the defendant's likely flight and escape through another exit. The Commonwealth made no reference to the rationale of Commonwealth v. Dora, 57 Mass.App.Ct. 141, 144-148 (2003), that the tenants of a multi-unit residential building enjoyed only a qualified or diminished expectation of privacy in its common area hallways and therefore only reduced constitutional protection against police entry and search in those places, even trespassory police entry.

[FN13]

The judge invited posthearing memoranda upon all suppression issues. The Commonwealth, as appellant, has not included in its record appendix any written memorandum demonstrating its presentation of a subsequent Dora argument to the judge. It had the duty to do so or else suffer the waiver of the argument on appeal. See Commonwealth v. Best, 50 Mass.App.Ct. 722, 729 (2001); Commonwealth v. Giacobbe, 56 Mass.App.Ct. 144, 149 (2002). After her thorough subsidiary findings, the judge rested her decision of suppression exclusively upon the ground that the police entry into the hall and stairway had constituted the invasion of a dwelling without freely given consent and without probable cause to search in exigent circumstances. Her discussion contained no reference to the authority or reasoning of Dora. On appeal, the Commonwealth has relied upon the authority of the Dora reasoning in its brief and oral argument. From the record we infer that the Commonwealth did not provide, and therefore waived, any Dora argument to the motion judge. Even if it had done so, and even if we were to find Dora applicable to the present facts so as to justify police entry into the hall and stairway, the ensuing stop and frisk would independently remain unjustified and the resulting evidence suppressed for the reasons covered above.

3. Statements. The defendant's postarrest statements were results of the unjustified stop and frisk. They too require suppression. See Commonwealth v. Borges, 395 Mass. 788, 795-796 (1985) (evidence excluded as the tainted product of a sequence in which the "initial stop was improper and the subsequent actions occurred as an immediate and direct result of that
illegality").

Conclusion. The specific supported findings of the motion judge show that the disputed contraband and statements resulted from an invalid stop and frisk and required suppression.

Order allowing motion to suppress affirmed.

RUBIN, J. (concurring in the result).

I agree with the majority that on this record there is insufficient evidence to support a conclusion that at the time of the pat frisk of the defendant the police had a reasonable belief based on specific and articulable facts and the reasonable inferences that follow therefrom that the defendant was armed and dangerous. Commonwealth v. Silva, 366 Mass. 402, 405-406 (1974). [FN1] I would not address the separate question, which is not necessary to our decision, whether there was reasonable, articulable suspicion of criminal activity sufficient to support the stop of the defendant in the apartment building prior to that pat frisk.

FN1. The judge's findings state that "[t]he suspect was described in the


broadcast as a 24 year old white male wearing a gray T-shirt with an orange stripe." In the recording of the dispatch, which the judge heard at the motion hearing, the dispatcher says that the suspect was "wearing a gray t-shirt with orange stripes. There's some kind of writing on the front of the shirt ... and blue jean shorts."

If police rely upon a radio broadcast or dispatch to conduct a threshold inquiry, the Commonwealth must demonstrate a basis of reliable information in support of the transmitted information. Commonwealth v. Riggieri, 438 Mass. 613, 615-617 (2003). Commonwealth v. Walker, 443 Mass. 867, 872, cert. denied, 546 U.S. 1021 (2005). If the source of the broadcast information is anonymous, the Commonwealth may cure the unreliability of the informant by police observation or corroborating details of the broadcast information. Commonwealth v. Lyons, 409 Mass. 16, 19 (1990). In the present case, no evidence indicated the reliability of the broadcast and no observation of the police supported the report of an attempted break-in. These deficiencies weaken the basis for reasonable suspicion of criminal activity of the defendant discussed below.

FN2. Officer Flaven testified to the defendant's appearance as the officers approached him on foot. We include it here to compare the defendant's appearance with the dispatch's description of the suspect.


FN3. Officer Flaven testified to these facts at the hearing.

FN4. The record does not indicate whether the door was locked before the defendant's entry.

FN5. Officer Flaven testified to this observation.

FN6. The space behind the front door of 30 Darling Street is a common area used by the building's tenants. It includes a hallway and a narrow staircase. During Officer Flaven's testimony, the Commonwealth submitted photographs of the common area in evidence. Some of those photographs are part of the record on appeal.

FN7. Officer Flaven testified to these comments.

FN8. Nervous or fidgety demeanor alone does not substitute for furtive movement. Commonwealth v. Gonsalves, 429 Mass. 658, 669 (1999); Commonwealth v. DePeiza, 449 Mass. at 372.

FN9. In the course of oral argument at the conclusion of the evidentiary



hearing, the motion judge pointedly addressed the issue to counsel for the Commonwealth:

THE COURT: "But what are the requirements under Terry? Not only do the officers have to have a reasonable, articul[able] suspicion that the person is committing a crime, or is about to commit a crime, but don't they have to have reasonable, articul[able] suspicion that the person is armed and dangerous? And what factors in this pattern, in this situation, would suggest that they had a concern for their safety ... ?"

FN10. As mentioned above, the motion judge concluded that the officers had not seized the defendant prior to his entry of 30 Darling Street. In doing so, the judge relied on the defendant's responses to the officers' conduct, such as willingly answering their questions, producing identification, and entering the building.

FN11. Arguably, Officer Flaven seized the defendant by ordering Rosado to open the door and threatening to kick it in. See Commonwealth v. Ramos, 430 Mass. 545, 549 (2000) ("The defendant ... was seized ... when the police notified her that they would not leave until she came out of the apartment and that if she continued to refuse, they would have the fire department break down the door").




FN12. A more expansive view of reasonable suspicion for a stop or seizure of the defendant on the interior stairs (strengthened by his abandonment of his identification card on the front porch) would still not overcome the hurdle of the unsupported frisk and therefore would still not lead to the admissibility of the frisk products.

FN13. The Dora court concluded its analysis of common area privacy with the following passage.

"While a technical trespass by police officers theoretically may have civil implications, how they gain access to the common hallways of a multi-unit apartment building is of no constitutional consequence. 'An expectation of privacy necessarily implies an expectation that one will be free of any intrusion, not merely unwarranted intrusions.' United States v. Eisler, 567 F.2d [814], 816 [8th Cir.1997] (emphasis in original)."

Id. at 148.

FN1. I would also note that in his very limited testimony about the pat frisk Officer Flaven did not suggest that either he or his partner had any subjective suspicion that the defendant was armed or dangerous.

NOTICE: The slip opinions and orders posted on this Web site are subject to formal revision and are superseded by the advance sheets and bound volumes of the Official Reports. This preliminary material will be removed from the Web site once the advance sheets of the Official Reports are published. If you find a typographical error or other formal error, please notify the Reporter of Decisions, Supreme Judicial Court, John Adams Courthouse, 1 Pemberton Square, Suite 2500, Boston, MA 02108-1750; (617) 557-1030; [email protected]

COMMONWEALTH vs. Jose M. MARTINEZ.

No. 07-P-1424.

November 4, 2008. - May 11, 2009.

Practice, Criminal, Motion to suppress. Search and Seizure, Threshold police inquiry, Probable cause, Protective frisk. Constitutional Law, Search and seizure, Stop and frisk, Probable cause. Arrest. Probable Cause.

COMPLAINT received and sworn to in the West Roxbury Division of the Boston Municipal Court Department on September 5, 2006.

A pretrial motion to suppress evidence was heard by Kathleen E. Coffey, J.

An application for leave to prosecute an interlocutory appeal was allowed in the Supreme Judicial Court for the county of Suffolk by Judith A. Cowin, J., and the appeal was reported by her to the Appeals Court.

Kathleen Celio, Assistant District Attorney, for the Commonwealth.

Rose E. King for the defendant.

Present: McHugh, Sikora, & Rubin, JJ.

SIKORA, J.

The Commonwealth takes this interlocutory appeal from a Boston Municipal Court judge's grant of the defendant's motion to suppress evidence and statements. The issues arise from a stop, pat frisk, and arrest of the defendant on a porch and in the common area of an apartment house in the Mission Hill section of Boston. The pat frisk produced a handgun and ammunition. After the
defendant's arrest, police officers also found a substance believed to be marijuana and a pill of apparent Class E character in the possession of the defendant. The defendant sought to suppress that evidence as well as statements made to officers after his arrest. We affirm the judge's order suppressing the evidence and statements. The ground of decision is that the stop and pat frisk lacked the support of reasonable suspicion.

Background. In the absence of clear error, the motion judge's findings are final. Commonwealth v. Yesilciman, 406 Mass. 736, 743 (1990). We supplement those findings with uncontested testimony from the motion hearing. See Commonwealth v. Isaiah I., 448 Mass. 334, 337 (2007), and cases cited (appellate courts "may supplement a judge's finding of facts if the evidence is uncontroverted and undisputed and where the judge explicitly or implicitly credited the witness's testimony"). In this instance, the detail and clarity of those findings are especially helpful for the application of appropriate doctrine.

The only two witnesses to testify at the hearing were Boston police Officer Michael Flaven and Marielis Rosado, the defendant's female companion at the time of the events in question. At the end of the hearing the judge stated, "I found the officer to be very credible, and I thank him for his honesty.... I find him to be a credible, hardworking officer who was investigating a legitimate 911 call." At the same time, the judge derived critical findings from Rosado's testimony. See Commonwealth v. Moon, 380 Mass. 751, 756 (1980) ("The determination of the weight and credibility of the testimony is the function and responsibility of the judge who saw and heard the witnesses ..."). Although the judge's findings describe Rosado as the defendant's "girlfriend," Rosado did not use that term to describe their relationship. Nevertheless, in light of the testimony of the two witnesses, which the judge credited either explicitly or implicitly, the finding that Rosado was the defendant's girlfriend is not clearly erroneous.

On Saturday, September 2, 2006, at approximately 5:00 A.M., Officer Flaven and Officer McDonough received a dispatch on their police radio stating that a 911 caller had reported an attempted breaking and entering of a residence at 13 Sachem Street in the Mission Hill neighborhood. The dispatcher described the suspect as a twenty-four year old white male wearing blue jean shorts and a gray T-shirt with orange stripes and "some kind of writing on the front."

[FN1] In uniform and in a marked police vehicle, the officers drove past 13 Sachem Street and did not see any evidence of an attempted breaking and entering. The officers had not noticed any pedestrians or moving vehicles in the vicinity until Officer McDonough saw the defendant walking on Hillside



Avenue, which runs perpendicularly to Sachem Street. The officers noticed that the defendant was wearing a white T-shirt under a long-sleeved, multicolored, button-down shirt and was accompanied by a woman, later identified as Marielis Rosado.

The officers wanted to question the defendant to determine whether he was involved with the attempted breaking and entering reported in the dispatch. The series of one-way streets in the neighborhood required them to drive around the block to approach the defendant. When they reached him, he was walking with Rosado on Darling Street, which runs in parallel to Sachem Street and perpendicularly to Hillside Avenue. As he walked, the officers drove alongside him. One of the officers asked him his name. He replied truthfully, "Jose." The officers noticed that the defendant was Hispanic and had light-colored skin. He appeared to be in his early twenties. He appeared also to be nervous.

After the defendant's response, the officers stopped their vehicle and got out. They followed the defendant and Rosado up a set of stairs onto the front porch of 30 Darling Street, a small three-story apartment house where Rosado lived. As Officer Flaven approached the defendant, he noticed that the defendant's shirt was long-sleeved and gray with "a little bit of blue in it," as well as with vertical "orange stripes." Officer Flaven noticed also that the defendant had a cast on his arm. [FN2] The defendant had not attempted to flee from the officers nor had he made any furtive gestures. [FN3]

On the porch, the officers asked the defendant for identification. He produced a Massachusetts identification card. As they examined the card, the defendant and Rosado entered the apartment house. The defendant then locked the building's front door. [FN4] He stood behind Rosado, put his hands on her hips, and whispered something in her ear. [FN5] He then walked up the flight of stairs inside the front door. [FN6]

Rosado remained immediately inside the door. Officer Flaven told her, "Open the door or I'll fucking kick it in." She was afraid that, if she did not open the door, the officer would have forcibly entered the building and caused property damage. So she unlocked and opened the door. Officer Flaven entered the building and climbed the stairs to meet the defendant. He grasped the defendant and brought him downstairs and outside. Officer McDonough conducted a pat frisk of the defendant and found a loaded handgun. Officer Flaven then asked the defendant for his license to carry a firearm. The defendant told the officers that he did not have one. They placed him under arrest.

As the officers led the defendant away from the building, he said to Rosado, "Bye, bye baby, see you later. I am going away for a long time." At the police station, Officer Flaven advised the defendant of his Miranda rights. The defendant told the officer that he had found the gun and that he carried it because he had been shot at twice. Police searched the defendant during the booking process and found marijuana and a small blue pill. With regard to the pill, the defendant, without being asked, told Officer Flaven, "It's Viagra. The girl I was with tonight. I was going to use it with her." [FN7]

The motion judge concluded that the officers had not seized or stopped the defendant when they had stood on the porch with him, asked for identification, and received his identification card. She concluded further that Officer Flaven's warrantless entry into 30 Darling Street was unlawful because it lacked the support of probable cause and exigent circumstances or consent. She suppressed all evidence seized from the defendant and all of his postarrest statements as the products of the unlawful entry.

Discussion. From the findings by the motion judge, we "make an independent determination of the correctness of the judge's application of constitutional principles" to those facts. Commonwealth v. Mercado, 422 Mass. 367, 369 (1996). The reviewing court may affirm a suppression decision upon any ground supported by the record, even if the motion judge did not rely upon it. Commonwealth v. Va Meng Joe, 40 Mass.App.Ct. 499, 503 n. 7 (1996), S. C., 425 Mass. 99, 102 (1997). Commonwealth v. Eggleston, 71 Mass.App.Ct. 363, 367 n. 4 (2008), S. C., 453 Mass. 554 (2009). We conclude that the stop and frisk of the defendant lacked the support of reasonable suspicion under the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution standards of Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 21-22 (1968), and Commonwealth v. Silva, 366 Mass. 402, 405 (1974). That deficiency provides an independent and alternative basis for suppression of the evidence and statements.

1. The stop and frisk. (a) The stop. Under Massachusetts law, a police officer has seized a person "if, in view of all of the circumstances surrounding the incident, a reasonable person would have believed that he was not free to leave." Commonwealth v. Borges, 395 Mass. 788, 791 (1985), quoting from United States v. Mendenhall, 446 U.S. 544, 554 (1980) (opinion of Stewart, J.). When an officer pursues a person and the pursuit, viewed objectively, indicates that the person is not free to leave the area without responding to the officer's inquiry, the officer has seized that person. Commonwealth v. Stoute, 422 Mass. 782, 789 (1996). An officer may seize a person if he reasonably suspects that the "person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime." Commonwealth v. Silva, 366 Mass. at 405. That

reasonable suspicion must "be based on specific and articulable facts and the specific reasonable inferences which follow from such facts in light of the officer's experience." Id. at 406. "The facts and inferences underlying the officer's suspicion must be viewed as a whole when assessing the reasonableness of his acts." Commonwealth v. Thibeau, 384 Mass. 762, 764 (1981).

We must allow officers "to take account of the possibility that some descriptive facts supplied by victims or witnesses may be in error." Commonwealth v. Emuakpor, 57 Mass.App.Ct. 192, 198 (2003), quoting from 2 LaFave, Search and Seizure § 3.4(c), at 241 (3d ed.1996); 4 LaFave, Search and Seizure § 9.4(g), at 201 (3d ed.1996). Thus, reasonable suspicion can exist "absent a full match-up of all parts of the description." Ibid. Yet "[n]either evasive behavior, proximity to a crime scene, nor matching a general description is alone sufficient to support the reasonable suspicion necessary to justify a stop and frisk." Commonwealth v. Mercado, 422 Mass. at 371.

At no point during the encounter did the officers reasonably suspect that the defendant had committed, was committing, or was about to commit a crime. See Commonwealth v. Silva, supra at 405. The defendant's appearance did not sufficiently resemble the dispatcher's description of the person who had
allegedly attempted a breaking and entry. The defendant is Hispanic and has light-colored skin. The dispatcher described the suspect as white. The defendant was wearing a white T-shirt under a long-sleeved, button-down shirt, and he had a cast on one arm. His shirt was multicolored, with both blue and gray elements and some orange stripes. The dispatcher described the suspect as wearing a gray T-shirt, with orange stripes and with script on the front. The dispatch did not refer to a long-sleeved shirt or to an arm cast. The defendant was wearing long pants, not blue jean shorts.

The presence of Rosado, the defendant's girlfriend, has significance. The dispatcher did not cite the accompaniment of a woman. When the officers first spotted the defendant, he was with Rosado. Her presence, viewed objectively, decreased suspicion that the defendant was the person who allegedly had attempted the breaking and entry.

(b) The frisk. An officer may frisk a person for weapons if a reasonably prudent person in the officer's position "would be warranted in the belief that the safety of the police or that of other persons was in danger." Commonwealth v. Silva, 366 Mass. at 406. "[T]he officer need not be absolutely certain that the individual is armed," ibid., but the officer must be aware of specific facts warranting a reasonable person to fear for his safety. Commonwealth v. Va Meng Joe, 425 Mass. at 102 & n. 7.

Here the officers' observations do not support a reasonable belief that the defendant was armed and dangerous. See Commonwealth v. Silva, supra. The dispatcher did not report that the person who attempted the breaking and entering was armed. See Commonwealth v. Murphy, 63 Mass.App.Ct. 11, 18 (2005), and cases cited (lack of reports of weapons at crime scene was one factor contributing to conclusion that frisk was unlawful). Nor did any element of the defendant's conduct suggest that he had a weapon or that he intended to harm anyone. The officers did not see the defendant assault, or attempt to assault, anyone. See ibid. (no observation of assaultive conduct was another factor contributing to conclusion that frisk was unlawful). He made no furtive gestures, such as grabbing his waistband or shielding part of his body from the police, and the officers did not observe a bulge in his clothing. See Commonwealth v. Johnson, 413 Mass. 598, 601 (1992) (officers' observation of defendant reaching into his pants was one factor supporting a lawful frisk); Commonwealth v. DePeiza, 449 Mass. 367, 371-372 (2007) (defendant shielding bulge in his jacket from police contributed to finding of reasonable suspicion to stop and frisk); Commonwealth v. Murphy, supra (frisk unlawful where, in addition to other factors, police did not see a bulge or furtive gestures). [FN8] In short, a reasonable person would not

have feared for his safety after witnessing the defendant's behavior. See Va Meng Joe, 425 Mass. at 102; Commonwealth v. Gomes, 453 Mass. 506, 512-514 (2009) (insufficient facts to support a reasonable inference that the defendant was armed and dangerous). More than any other factor in this case, the invalidity of the frisk bars the resulting evidence.

(c) Countervailing evidence. The defendant's proximity, in both time and location, to the reported attempted breaking and entering would draw police attention. The streets of Mission Hill were deserted at 5:00 A.M. Compare Commonwealth v. Carrington, 20 Mass.App.Ct. 525, 529 (1985) (two factors supporting probable cause for arrest were early morning hour and short distance between location of stop and crime scene); Commonwealth v. Quinn, 68 Mass.App.Ct. 476, 480 (2007) (stop was proper where motor vehicle was driving away from crime scene within minutes of crime and was only vehicle on road). The defendant's abandonment of his identification card by retreat behind a locked door created some suspicion. Compare Commonwealth v. Sanchez, 403 Mass. 640, 645 (1988) (flight from police after consenting to search and before police pursuit provides reasonable suspicion). Nonetheless, the combination of those factors did not accumulate to a level of reasonable suspicion that the defendant had committed, was committing, or was about to commit, a crime. Nor did that combination equal a reasonable belief that the defendant was armed and dangerous. [FN9]

We do not decide whether the officers seized the defendant on the porch prior to his entry of 30 Darling Street, although that conclusion could be reasonable. [FN10] Compare Commonwealth v. Barros, 435 Mass. 171, 175- 176 (2001) (officer's pursuit of defendant by leaving cruiser, approaching him after being rebuffed, and ordering him to "[c]ome here" was highly relevant in determining whether defendant was seized); Commonwealth v. DePeiza, 449 Mass. at 370-371 (defendant not seized because officers used conversational tone, did not block defendant's path, and did not order defendant to stop or answer questions), and cases cited. At the latest, the defendant was seized when Officer Flaven grasped him on the stairway. [FN11] A reasonable person would not feel free to leave when a police officer had mounted a flight of stairs and taken hold of him after ordering his companion to open a locked door and threatening to kick it in. See Commonwealth v. Pimentel, 27 Mass.App.Ct. 557, 560 (1989), quoting from United States v. Mendenhall, 446 U.S. at 554 (opinion of Stewart, J.) (two examples of police conduct evidencing a seizure are "physical touching of the person of the citizen" and "use of language or tone of voice indicating that compliance with the officer's request might be compelled"). It makes no difference, though, whether we determine that the seizure or stop occurred when Officer Flaven grasped the defendant or

at an earlier point in time. Under either analysis, the officers did not have reasonable suspicion that the defendant was involved in criminal conduct or a reasonable belief that he was armed and dangerous. [FN12]

2. Unwarranted entry of the residential building. At the conclusion of the evidentiary hearing, the judge invited the oral argument of all counsel upon the issues of both the validity of the stop and frisk and of the police entry into the residential building without a warrant. The Commonwealth responded that the entry had resulted both from the consent of Rosado because she had unlocked and opened the door and from the exigent circumstance of the defendant's likely flight and escape through another exit. The Commonwealth made no reference to the rationale of Commonwealth v. Dora, 57 Mass.App.Ct. 141, 144-148 (2003), that the tenants of a multi-unit residential building enjoyed only a qualified or diminished expectation of privacy in its common area hallways and therefore only reduced constitutional protection against police entry and search in those places, even trespassory police entry.

[FN13]

The judge invited posthearing memoranda upon all suppression issues. The Commonwealth, as appellant, has not included in its record appendix any written memorandum demonstrating its presentation of a subsequent Dora argument to the judge. It had the duty to do so or else suffer the waiver of the argument on appeal. See Commonwealth v. Best, 50 Mass.App.Ct. 722, 729 (2001); Commonwealth v. Giacobbe, 56 Mass.App.Ct. 144, 149 (2002). After her thorough subsidiary findings, the judge rested her decision of suppression exclusively upon the ground that the police entry into the hall and stairway had constituted the invasion of a dwelling without freely given consent and without probable cause to search in exigent circumstances. Her discussion contained no reference to the authority or reasoning of Dora. On appeal, the Commonwealth has relied upon the authority of the Dora reasoning in its brief and oral argument. From the record we infer that the Commonwealth did not provide, and therefore waived, any Dora argument to the motion judge. Even if it had done so, and even if we were to find Dora applicable to the present facts so as to justify police entry into the hall and stairway, the ensuing stop and frisk would independently remain unjustified and the resulting evidence suppressed for the reasons covered above.

3. Statements. The defendant's postarrest statements were results of the unjustified stop and frisk. They too require suppression. See Commonwealth v. Borges, 395 Mass. 788, 795-796 (1985) (evidence excluded as the tainted product of a sequence in which the "initial stop was improper and the subsequent actions occurred as an immediate and direct result of that
illegality").

Conclusion. The specific supported findings of the motion judge show that the disputed contraband and statements resulted from an invalid stop and frisk and required suppression.

Order allowing motion to suppress affirmed.

RUBIN, J. (concurring in the result).

I agree with the majority that on this record there is insufficient evidence to support a conclusion that at the time of the pat frisk of the defendant the police had a reasonable belief based on specific and articulable facts and the reasonable inferences that follow therefrom that the defendant was armed and dangerous. Commonwealth v. Silva, 366 Mass. 402, 405-406 (1974). [FN1] I would not address the separate question, which is not necessary to our decision, whether there was reasonable, articulable suspicion of criminal activity sufficient to support the stop of the defendant in the apartment building prior to that pat frisk.

FN1. The judge's findings state that "[t]he suspect was described in the


broadcast as a 24 year old white male wearing a gray T-shirt with an orange stripe." In the recording of the dispatch, which the judge heard at the motion hearing, the dispatcher says that the suspect was "wearing a gray t-shirt with orange stripes. There's some kind of writing on the front of the shirt ... and blue jean shorts."

If police rely upon a radio broadcast or dispatch to conduct a threshold inquiry, the Commonwealth must demonstrate a basis of reliable information in support of the transmitted information. Commonwealth v. Riggieri, 438 Mass. 613, 615-617 (2003). Commonwealth v. Walker, 443 Mass. 867, 872, cert. denied, 546 U.S. 1021 (2005). If the source of the broadcast information is anonymous, the Commonwealth may cure the unreliability of the informant by police observation or corroborating details of the broadcast information. Commonwealth v. Lyons, 409 Mass. 16, 19 (1990). In the present case, no evidence indicated the reliability of the broadcast and no observation of the police supported the report of an attempted break-in. These deficiencies weaken the basis for reasonable suspicion of criminal activity of the defendant discussed below.

FN2. Officer Flaven testified to the defendant's appearance as the officers approached him on foot. We include it here to compare the defendant's appearance with the dispatch's description of the suspect.


FN3. Officer Flaven testified to these facts at the hearing.

FN4. The record does not indicate whether the door was locked before the defendant's entry.

FN5. Officer Flaven testified to this observation.

FN6. The space behind the front door of 30 Darling Street is a common area used by the building's tenants. It includes a hallway and a narrow staircase. During Officer Flaven's testimony, the Commonwealth submitted photographs of the common area in evidence. Some of those photographs are part of the record on appeal.

FN7. Officer Flaven testified to these comments.

FN8. Nervous or fidgety demeanor alone does not substitute for furtive movement. Commonwealth v. Gonsalves, 429 Mass. 658, 669 (1999); Commonwealth v. DePeiza, 449 Mass. at 372.

FN9. In the course of oral argument at the conclusion of the evidentiary



hearing, the motion judge pointedly addressed the issue to counsel for the Commonwealth:

THE COURT: "But what are the requirements under Terry? Not only do the officers have to have a reasonable, articul[able] suspicion that the person is committing a crime, or is about to commit a crime, but don't they have to have reasonable, articul[able] suspicion that the person is armed and dangerous? And what factors in this pattern, in this situation, would suggest that they had a concern for their safety ... ?"

FN10. As mentioned above, the motion judge concluded that the officers had not seized the defendant prior to his entry of 30 Darling Street. In doing so, the judge relied on the defendant's responses to the officers' conduct, such as willingly answering their questions, producing identification, and entering the building.

FN11. Arguably, Officer Flaven seized the defendant by ordering Rosado to open the door and threatening to kick it in. See Commonwealth v. Ramos, 430 Mass. 545, 549 (2000) ("The defendant ... was seized ... when the police notified her that they would not leave until she came out of the apartment and that if she continued to refuse, they would have the fire department break down the door").




FN12. A more expansive view of reasonable suspicion for a stop or seizure of the defendant on the interior stairs (strengthened by his abandonment of his identification card on the front porch) would still not overcome the hurdle of the unsupported frisk and therefore would still not lead to the admissibility of the frisk products.

FN13. The Dora court concluded its analysis of common area privacy with the following passage.

"While a technical trespass by police officers theoretically may have civil implications, how they gain access to the common hallways of a multi-unit apartment building is of no constitutional consequence. 'An expectation of privacy necessarily implies an expectation that one will be free of any intrusion, not merely unwarranted intrusions.' United States v. Eisler, 567 F.2d [814], 816 [8th Cir.1997] (emphasis in original)."

Id. at 148.

FN1. I would also note that in his very limited testimony about the pat frisk Officer Flaven did not suggest that either he or his partner had any subjective suspicion that the defendant was armed or dangerous.

Neighborhoods: 
Topics: 


Ad:


Like the job UHub is doing? Consider a contribution. Thanks!

Comments

It sounds like the defendant had probable cause to believe that the policeman was armed and dangerous. I'm glad the judge didn't accept the Commonwealth's version of what constitutes consent.

That said, I wonder if Ossifer Flaven-hoyven said "Hey laaady!" to get Ms. Rosado to stop.

up
Voting closed 0

I'm glad the courts have put some boundaries and limits on stuff like this. There is supposed to be some line between cops and criminals.

up
Voting closed 0

1) Criminals should have a change of clothes with them when committing a felony. That way, callers who actually see the person who commit the crime, will have to leave their real name, and when you (the criminal) get stopped by police, your clothes will not match the original description, therefore police will not have RS to stop you or frisk you. And an anonymous phone call will hold less wieght than one where someone has to leave their real name.

2) If your girlfriend is there and you have a gun on you illegally, its best to hide behind her, pretend you have to run up to the apartment for something, lock the door, and make the police have to say things like "Im going to kick the door in". Try not to make it look as suspucious as the man in this case did.

up
Voting closed 0

One of the particular delusions police seem to suffer is that they become good by virtue of wearing a badge. In fact, some people without badges do bad things and/or are bad people, and some people with badges do bad things and/or are bad people. One of the key differences is that it’s much easier to get away with doing bad things if you’re wearing a badge, and it’s much harder to defend yourself against somebody doing bad things when they are wearing a badge.

This is one of those cases. As the judge ruled, the cop had no legitimate reason to suspect the defendant, and therefore his threat to “kick the fucking door in” was not legitimate police business, but mere thuggery. This cop forgot that he wasn’t magically “the good guys” by virtue of his badge, and forgot that he, too, has to follow the law and act decently towards his fellow citizens. He went on a fishing expedition because he didn’t like the way someone looked, and, as per the law, had no reason or right to know what was in the defendant’s pockets.

Thankfully, we have a functioning legal system in this country, based on the Constitution, so that a steroidal yahoo with a badge can’t just make up his own laws all the time. Sometimes they get away with it, but not this time.

Pete Nice here gives us a good example of Neanderthal cop thinking. The fellow must have been guilty of robbery. Why? Not because he matches a suspect description in the slightest; as the judge pointed out, he didn’t. He’s guilty of something simply because some other cop found him suspicious. If a brother in blue found him suspicious, he is ipso facto a bad guy… and a cop can do whatever the fuck he wants to him. And if a cop wants to lie or break the law in his pursuit of the “bad guy,” then another cop, if he is also suffering from Neanderthal cop thinking, will immediately lie to back him up. Because they’re the good guys, right?

No, there’s a point where they stop being the good guys. That point is the law. Officer Floyvenmaven stopped being a good guy the moment he decided his drive to harass a suspicious pair of Hispanics for no good reason made him better than the law. After that, he became the bad guy in this story, and nothing he did was legal or admissible in court. That’s the law, and if you think you’re better than the law, you have no business pretending to enforce it.

It's a good ruling, and one that makes all of us safer. If bad men with badges are allowed to think they can "kick your fucking door in" for whatever reason they make up, then none of is safe in our own home. A steel doorframe and a Mossberg over-under won't protect you against a thug if he's wearing a badge. Only a judge can do that. Kudos to Ms. Cowin.

up
Voting closed 0

Is this really a reason where police wanted to "kick a door in" because of a reason they made up? Or was it a case where police responded to a dangerous 911 call in the middle of the night where one man fitting the description (orange stiped men are all over the place at 5am) was stopped, nervous, and ran up the stairs before police were able to properly frisk him.

This is not a case of whether or not the man should have been frisked that night, this is a case of when the man was frisked. If the cops had stopped him right off the bad and frisked him before he got into the apartment, the evidence would have held up in court. And of course, thats why I had the paragraph regarding getting rid or putting on clothing if you are going to commit a felony, as that will throw off a judge as it would have in this case, and of course you knew about the absence of aguilar-spinelli testing, the original call gave police less rights to stop and search the man. Massachusetts is one of 5 states that still adhere by this principal, and its a principal that occurred in this case. If this had happened in Maine, then the arrest would have been good...do you think the same about Maine cops then?

The only thing illegal that the police did here (according to a Massachusetts judge under the MA constitution which is more strict than the US constitution), was that they entered the apartment and got evidence after that entry.

And what does steroids have to do with this? Just because cops aren't all white Holy Cross educated males like myself, the name calling isn't needed.

Of course Im sure you know all about threshold inquires, seizures, pat frisks and other procedural terms and Im also sure you've gone to 911 calls where people have illegal guns like in this case.

And if there was any serious misconduct like you say, judges never add in things like they did about the conduct and testimony of the officers like she did. They do

up
Voting closed 0

These cops made the observation that the man was acting suspucious, and you make the comment:

"He went on a fishing expedition because he didn’t like the way someone looked, and, as per the law, had no reason or right to know what was in the defendant’s pockets."

Ok, we no now that the man didn't break into the apartment. But he did have an illegal gun on him, so maybe the cops just missed this man clutching his waistband to hide the gun? Do you know that they went fishing because they didn't like the way he looked, or were they simply suspucious because of the way he was acting. Facts are facts here. Martinez was breaking the law by carring an illegal firearm. Ok, he WAS a criminal and was breaking the law.

Shouldn't you be more worried that we don't have police with better observation skills that might have done a better threshold inquiry with this man? A better stop might have resulted into cops seeing the bulge and furtive movements that many gun wielding criminals make when they have a firearm in their wasteband.

The cops did have a good reason to be suspucious of this man, as he had a firearm and could have simply fired it at the cops if he had a warrant, and if the cops approached him like you would want them too.

Ill end it by saying that I would agree with you if this man did not have a gun and police broke into the apartment illegally and did not find anything. That would make me believe more that they simply "didn't like the way he looked".

up
Voting closed 0

So what you're saying, Pete, is that the ends justify the means?

Because they found a gun on the man, it was justified retroactively that they searched him illegally? I'm glad you're not a judge, then. The law doesn't work that way, and it's a good thing. If you don't understand that, then you probably shouldn't be a cop, either.

As far as Mr. Martinez matching the description, you're just being silly. The description was a white man with jean shorts and a striped t-shirt with writing. Mr. Martinez had long pants, a white t-shirt, a multi-colored long-sleeved shirt, and a cast on his arm. No part of his appearance matched the description. You seem to alternate between trying to justify improper behavior by the policeman on the basis that the clothing did match and trying to justify it by imagining Mr. Martinez was a quick-change expert. This is not reasoning, it's justification. There's a difference, and you should learn it.

As for the cast, perhaps you should add that to your recommendations for criminals. Bring a bunch of plaster along so you can wrap it around your arm at the last minute!

You want to read in that he was suspicious, when what the cop said is he was nervous. Well, who wouldn't be nervous when accosted by a foul-mouthed policeman in the wee hours when all you're trying to do is get laid? Going even farther, you want to fantasize that he was clutching his waistband, despite the fact the cop testified that he "made no furtive gestures."

Look, here's the fact of the matter:

At no point during the encounter did the officers reasonably suspect that the defendant had committed, was committing, or was about to commit a crime.

You seem to want to make up stuff to the contrary, but all you're really doing is demonstrating your lack of objectivity and your poor grasp of the law.

The guy turned out to be carrying a gun illegally. Ok. Officer Flayvinnn illegally entered the apartment building and illegally searched him. So that makes them about even as far as illegal goes.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want either one of them in my house. But I can stop Mr. Martinez on my own. To stop the other guy, I need Judge Cowin.

up
Voting closed 0

But you said the police made something up, when the police thought that someone "suspucious" actually had a gun. That would make me believe more that the person was acting suspucious for a reason.

As far as Mr. Martinez matching the description, you're just being silly. The description was a white man with jean shorts and a striped t-shirt with writing.

Ever go to a call in the middle of the night regarding descriptions given out by anonymous callers from a 7th floor balcony or someone driving by in a car? It not a science, its not a fact, and its far from being silly.

You want to read in that he was suspicious, when what the cop said is he was nervous. Well, who wouldn't be nervous when accosted by a foul-mouthed policeman in the wee hours when all you're trying to do is get laid? Going even farther, you want to fantasize that he was clutching his waistband, despite the fact the cop testified that he "made no furtive gestures."

foul-mouthed at what point? I have never been nervous when stopped by the cops when I havent done anything. Im not fantasizing that he was clutching his waistband, I was saying that if these cops were such liars like you said they were, then why not lie about clutching his waistband? And I also said that when people have guns in their waistbands, illegally or legally, they do tend to clutch them. It could have been very possible that Martinez did clutch the wasitband and the cops did not observe that.

You might be able to stop Mr. Martinez on your own, but I don't think these kids that have died this year already by the hands of illegal guns were able to protect themselves.

Look, here's the fact of the matter:

At no point during the encounter did the officers reasonably suspect that the defendant had committed, was committing, or was about to commit a crime.

You seem to want to make up stuff to the contrary, but all you're really doing is demonstrating your lack of objectivity and your poor grasp of the law

This is far from a fact, and my grasp on the law is as clear as anyones would be in the middle of the night responding to a felony call. The cops don't call up judges on the way to 911 gun calls asking if they have reasonable suspusicion to stop someone close to matching a description.

And as the Martinez case shows that evidence can be thrown out from a Terry stop, there are hundreds of other cases with other judges that go the other way. So they are still far from "facts".

And Im not disagreeing with the judge here, I should make that clear. I just disagree with your contention that these cops were acting like criminals in this situation which is unfair comming from someone who has probably never responded to a dangerous situation.

up
Voting closed 0

Pete, your entire argument is that the fact that a gun was found on Martinez justified prior illegal actions on the part of a cop. And you are willing to make things up to support that argument - which proves mine. (Thanks!)

-"The cops don't call up judges on the way to a 911 gun call." It wasn't a gun call. You are making that up.
-"The police thought that someone 'suspicious' actually had a gun." No, the officer never stated Martinez was suspicious. He stated he was nervous. And no, Flavenmoyven never indicated he had any reason to believe that Martinez had a gun. You are making that up.
-"You said the police made something up." Read again, Pete. I said you made something up, and it's true. And you did it for just the reasons I stipulated: a cop will lie to back up another cop.

Thanks again for demonstrating my point.

As far as not disagreeing with the judge, if you disagree with this:

At no point during the encounter did the officers reasonably suspect that the defendant had committed, was committing, or was about to commit a crime.

Then you are disagreeing with the judge. That is her statement, and it is now a legal fact.

Now, because you are losing your argument, which is inherently indefensible, you are trying to pull rank. "Oh, you could never understand, because you're not a cop." Well, that cuts both ways, Pete. You could never understand the damage that bad policing does to the public, because you are a cop. You could never understand why a fellow would be nervous when stopped for no reason, because you are a cop. It's utterly disingenuous of you to say "well, why was he nervous? I'm never nervous!" You get to pull out your members only card and yuck it up with your tribe. You have no damn idea. You live a privileged existence and are safer than a civilian like Martinez.

As far as whether I have ever responded to a dangerous situation, I assure you I have, including knives and guns, and it's far more dangerous for me than for Officer Flavin because I don't get to hide behind a badge, a gun, and a blue wall. As a civilian, I have to deal with thugs on both sides of the law, and I thank Judge Cowin for making me safer.

up
Voting closed 0

First off, I can understand the damage that police can do to the public, because I have seen it first hand, and I have also been stopped by the police before, during, and after I was a cop. When I was a kid and I was stopped by the police, I was nervous, because I was drinking illegally, or I was someplace where I wasn't supposed to be, or I had done something illegall that I wasn't supposed to do. I am not and have not been an angel. When I haven't done anything, I don't get nervous. You can assume that I hide behind my badge, but that is untrue. I can say as a fact that you have never been in a situation like these cops have, and don't know what you are talking about.

And if you have had to responed to situations involving guns and knives, then maybe I should make an assumption about the type of person you are? Maybe thats why you feel safe from this judgement.

My main point that I want to make here with this sockpuppet, is that you picked the wrong case to argue against police brutality, corruption, or illegal activity. There are many instances where police abuse their power and act like the words you first mentioned,

"bad people, thuggery, Neanderthal cop thinking, thug

This is not a case where police acted in this way.

Someone acting nervous or suspucious is simply the difference of how a cop worded something in a report. If you think these cops are so dumb, maybe they made a bad choice of words in their report? Can you tell me when someone with a illegal gun acts "suspicous" or "nervous"? Whats the difference? And although I made a mistake in using the "gun call" where the 911 call came from, it was still a felony call where police will take extra precautions. And you and I weren't there anyway so you can't say what the guy acted like.

-"You said the police made something up." Read again, Pete. I said you made something up, and it's true. And you did it for just the reasons I stipulated: a cop will lie to back up another cop.

No, you said this:

"He went on a fishing expedition because he didn’t like the way someone looked"

By saying this you are implying that they are making something up because of the way someone looked.

The fellow must have been guilty of robbery. Why? Not because he matches a suspect description in the slightest; as the judge pointed out, he didn’t. He’s guilty of something simply because some other cop found him suspicious

I never said he must have been guilty of robbery. I am saying that in the middle of the night when responding to a felony call, officers have various different factors to weigh when stopping someone for a threshold inquiry. And as the judge in this case said they did not have enough resonable suspicion to believe that he committed the crime.

But in cases with less evidence than in this case to cause a threshold inquiry, MA vs. Patti, Matthews, Clark compared to this case (Martinez) and other cases where police were found to not have enough RS to stop someone (McCoy, O'Laughlin, or Guttirrez). So judges rule both ways on this issue.

And Cowin does not make you safer in this instance, just like any judge that upholds the 2nd ammendment (legally) would make you safer. It might give you more rights than it does in 45 other states, but it does not make you safer.

And Martinez was not a civilian. He was a criminal that was committing a crime. The police did not have enough to stop him and I never really disagreed with the judge either. You just can't pick some random superior court decision out of hundreds that go both ways and pick on the cops because of it.

up
Voting closed 0

If you scroll up a bit, you can find the words I first mentioned:

"Open the door or I'll fucking kick it in."

This is thuggery, pure and simple.

You seem like a smart, educated fellow, and I'm hoping that you can learn your way out of Neanderthal cop mentality. Here's another place you're slipping: "Martinez was not a civilian. He was a criminal that was committing a crime."

See, Pete, the definition of "civilian" is "a person who isn't in the military or the police." You cops like to imagine the world is divided into three groups: the police, the criminals, and the civilians. But that’s not the way it divides up. The criminal category overlaps both police and civilians. Should I draw you a Venn diagram?

Now, Martinez' conviction was thrown out. Yeah, he was breaking a law, but so was Flaven. To the extent that Martinez was a criminal committing a crime, Flaven was also a criminal committing a crime. They're both sort of theoretical criminals... and only one of them was acting like a thug.

I'll concede one point to you: "There are many instances where police abuse their power..." Yeah, other cases would be a better basis for a jeremiad. However, that's not how this started. It started with me remarking on some very thuggish words spoken by a police officer behaving poorly, and you responding by implying the defendant was a burglar who changed his clothes to avoid the police. Which asinine comment got a rise out of me. And on it went.

If you want to know why I've had to respond to problems involving knives and guns, the basic reason is that I've been very poor and have lived in some very poor neighborhoods, where problems of this sort happen a lot. You know, the kinds of places that a cop like you would never visit without backup.

I defend myself and my place. And I've been jacked up by both civilians and police, and I have defended myself by whatever means most appropriate. With police, the most appropriate way is with an iron legal fist in a velvet glove of politeness. And a locked door works great too. I'm grateful for Judge Cowin upholding my locked door. It makes me safer.

up
Voting closed 0

I didn't mean to imply that this guy changed his clothes to avoid being caught. I wanted to say that if you were going to face this judge, it would be smart to change your clothes either way to get off in court. Felons know enough to do that anyway.

And to me, there are three groups when you go to a scene of a possible crime There are the police, there are civliians, and there are criminals, or possible criminals. Call them innocent people, witnesses, callers, bystanders, citizens, call them whatever you want. But on the night in question, there were the cops, one criminal (not committing the crime that the cops were called there for) and a citizen (so Ill use your word.) Now when I leave my house today, there are just citizens or civliians. There are no cops, or criminals because in my past experience, 99.99999999999999999% of the people and situations that I will run into will not involve cops or criminals. But when cops are working, and are responding to felonies where someone might be getting raped, murdered, or whatever, the cops have to think that way. Thats why people call 911 in the first place.

Chances are, police are going to respond to situations where there are criminals and innocent people. And good police work should help them figure out who is innocent and who is guilty.

And Flaven was not committing a crime. Thats where I think you are wrong (and you are wrong since he wasn't charged, and the judge even commented on his truthfullness). He responed to a potentially dangerous call, thought Martinez was acting nervous (probably was dont you think?) and thought there were exigent circumstances that he might have been involved here.

And where do you draw the line with a description? Should the cops never have talked to those two because they were two streets away? What if they a few houses away? What if he was darker skinned? What if he had red stripes? To call the officer criminal is off base im my opinion.

If these cops wanted to harrass this guy because he was hispanic, or wise, or whatever else, then you are 100% right sockpuppet. But maybe the cops had a bad feeling about this guy hiding behind his girlfriend as he ran backup the stairs, and in generall had a gut feeling that something was wrong here?

In the end, the guy did have a gun and the officers instincts probably told them that something was not right about the guy or the situation. This guy was probably in the wrong place at the wrong time for having an illegal gun. Saying something like "open the door or ill fucking kick it in" might be the words of someone that thinks a crime is going on or that something isnt right.

You say this started by an officer behaving poorly. I disagree. The cop sensed something wrong (what do ya know! the guy had a gun) and he acted on it. The only thing the cop wasn't able to do was to articulate their suspicion that a person is armed and dangerous That is what is needed to pat frisk someone for weapons. Judges don't say the things this judge said if they thought the cops were acting innapropriatly. There is a fuzzy line in this situation where judges rule on either way. I have seen cases with less respoable suspucision by the cops where convictions had been handed down.

This also could have been poor report writing, you or I don't know that either.

And do you really think you are safer after this decision (unless you are a criminal)? Cops will not act any different the next time a similar call comes about. It does teach them to become more aware of someone grabbing their wasteband possibly, being more articulte with their report writing, but in the end, a criminal is free not because the cops harrassed the guy, but they couldn't articulate in a report why they thought this guy may have been armed or dangerous.

up
Voting closed 0

I'm breaking out the Venn diagram.

IMAGE(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e79/noybnoyb/vblok.png)

Yes, there are three groups, but all criminals are also either police or civilian. Criminal and police are not mutually exclusive. Nor are criminal and civilian. Criminals are a minority of both police and civilians.

Two of the principal definitions of what a "criminal" is are: 1) a person who has committed a crime; and 2) a person who has been convicted of a crime.

Now, since Martinez' conviction was voided, he no longer fits the second definition. By that definition, it is incorrect to call him a criminal.

As for the first definition, we know that Martinez did something illegal. But we also know that Flaven did something illegal. Neither of them has a conviction for it. By definition one, if you want to call Martinez a criminal, shouldn't you also call Flaven a criminal? Personally, I would prefer to call neither a criminal. Mistakes were made, and life goes on. I hope both parties will be careful in the future not to repeat their errors.

To clarify one point, I did not say that this (in the sense of the series of events that morning) started by an officer behaving poorly. I said this conversation started with my quotation of an officer behaving poorly. I believe the series of events started with an unrelated 911 call.

As for the officer's intuition, maybe Officer Floyven's inarticulate sense of something being amiss is very acute and accurate. With a sample of one, we can't determine his batting average. But intuition is not sufficient legal justification to kick someone's fucking door down, or threaten to. If one day a cop refrains from threatening to kick my fucking door down because he remembers "Ah! I've got to have an actual articulable reason!" then I will be safer for this decision, because any cop who is condsidering kicking my door down can't possibly be a good cop. Yes, that specific event is vanishingly improbable. But someone may benefit, and I always feel safer when the law is upheld and rights are protected.

See, looking at police from the outside, we civilians see that some of them are criminals or dishonest, just as some civilians are. And we also know that the criminal policemen are much more dangerous to us than criminal civilians. A criminal civilian might beat me up and leave me in the street; a criminal cop might beat me up and leave me in jail.

If I don't know a policeman, why should he be able to compel entry into my house in the absence of evidence of a crime? It's much, much harder to get police out of your house than civilians. Who do you call? It's better not to let them in in the first place, and for that you use a locked door. Kudos to Judge Colwin for protecting my right to lock my door.

up
Voting closed 0

First about the three groups, we aren't talking about police corruption here, we are talking about the context of a 911 call, where there are only three possible groups, with excpetions. Like if police show up and find out that Martinez is a cop committing a felony break-in, or if Rosario (his gf) was an off duty cop, making her both a "civilian" and "cop" at the same time. And you were the first one who used that word I believe, so you don't have to lump me into your thug/military category of coppery.

"But intuition is not sufficient legal justification to kick someone's fucking door down, or threaten to."

That is true, but it is what lead up to that I was talking about. What made Flaven want to stop Martinez from running up those stairs? Thats why Im saying he didn't articulate the facts in justifying the stop, and failed to keep him from running up those stairs.

Now, since Martinez' conviction was voided, he no longer fits the second definition. By that definition, it is incorrect to call him a criminal.

Seriously?? So isn't it still correct to call him a criminal by the first definition? And if the cop isn't even charged with a crime, how can you put them both in the same category? Did the judge mention anything about borderline policework here? Did the DA's office start an investigation here? Did IA? No, they didn't. So its a little more clear that Martinez committed a crime than Flaven. Of course during these motions, several other cases regarding Terry stops were made by the da's office, so nothing criminal really happened here.

And lets really say what happened here. A guy with a gun gets stopped by the cops on an unrealated incident. The guy is nervous because he is illegally carrying a firearm. The cops suspect something is wrong and stop the guy. The guy hides behind his GF and then takes off up the stairs and into the apartment when he gets the chance and shuts the door. Cops threaten to knock it down without a warrant, the guy comes back out and is frisked and arrested. Exigent circumstances? No, but the cops knew something was wrong but couldn't articulate what it was. That's right over the line, and nowhere near a criminal act by the police.

I would have liked to know what you would have done sockpuppet in the same situation? Ever see how people act when the are committing a homeinvasion or armed robbery in a dwelling? What if someone was in that house being held hostage? There was a call for a break wasn't there? Next time maybe the cops should just ignore people on the street unless they have a perfect description from callers. Criminals would love that.

And if you are really afraid of cops breaking down your door, then you have to start changing your attitude or lifestyle, because that rarely happens to innocent people. Id still be more afraid of the people who have committed the 10,000 or so property, robbery, or assault crimes that have been committed so far this year.

up
Voting closed 0

If you want to have fun with the categories, how about a criminal cop (a guy like Pulido) who is off-duty, so he’s a civilian, and then he’s jacking some guy up, so he’s a criminal cop and a criminal civilian? Woo-hoo!

I don’t know if that would get us anywhere, though. The point is that there are police who commit crimes, just like there are civilians who commit crimes. Both types of criminals usually get away with it, and do it again. Both types of criminals should be of concern to any law-abiding citizen.

Now on to the moral equivalences.

I said: “Now, since Martinez' conviction was voided, he no longer fits the second definition. By that definition, it is incorrect to call him a criminal.”

You said: “Seriously?? So isn't it still correct to call him a criminal by the first definition? And if the cop isn't even charged with a crime, how can you put them both in the same category? Did the judge mention anything about borderline policework here? Did the DA's office start an investigation here? Did IA? No, they didn't. So its a little more clear that Martinez committed a crime than Flaven. “

Nothing criminal? It depends, once again, on your definition of criminal. Flaven did something illegal. That is the ruling, and you have agreed with that. Does that make him a criminal? I don’t think it does. Neither does the judge. He gets to take a mulligan and go on his way. It was a mistake. As for calling someone a criminal because he was charged with a crime, you and I both know that cops can make up any old bullshit they want to and charge someone with it. Charge is another word for accuse. What counts is conviction.

You obviously think that Martinez’ error in possessing a firearm illegally, along with some Viagra and pot, was worse than Flaven’s error in illegally threatening to break someone’s door down, and forcing his way into someone’s home. I’m not sure it is. And the judge gave Martinez a mulligan on that too, and he went on his way.

If you want to call Martinez a criminal but not Flaven, then you’ll have to come up with some definition he fits into but Flaven doesn’t. It seems like the definition you’re using is “A civilian I don’t like,” or “One of those bad guys.” It goes back to that dumb cop mentality about dividing everybody but cops into two groups: the bad guys and the good guys. In fact, most people are bad sometimes. Both Martinez and Flaven were.

But what’s so bad about Martinez that makes him a bad guy, as in a guy whose identity is criminal? I don’t see any evidence that Martinez committed or intended to commit a violent crime. It’s pretty clear that his intentions at the time began and ended with getting laid. On the other hand, Flaven’s illegal action was violent in nature. It was an explicit threat of violence against property and person.

Cops get to make mistakes, perhaps more than civilians do. If a civilian made the mistake of illegally threatening to break down someone’s door, and forcing their way into someone’s house, the legal result would be far worse for him.

And what was the actual harm done? I think you’ll agree it’s unlikely that Martinez got his property back, so there’s no chance he actually went on to commit an act of violence with that firearm. On the other hand, there was actual harm done to Martinez by Flaven: his time and property were taken from him (along with any chance of getting a second date). If he had to pay a lawyer, that’s money as well taken from him.

So in the game of moral equivalence, I think one could argue that Flaven’s action was worse: it was explicitly violent, and it caused actual harm. If you want to call Martinez a criminal, then you should call Flaven a criminal as well. You might argue that you feel (intuition?) that Martinez is likely to repeat his crime. Well, so is Flaven. He got buttered up by the judge last time he fucked up, so what’s to lose? Do the police really keep track of how many bogus cases a cop brings to court? Does that have repercussions on this career? I didn’t think so.

I said: "But intuition is not sufficient legal justification to kick someone's fucking door down, or threaten to."

You said: “That is true, but it is what lead up to that I was talking about. What made Flaven want to stop Martinez from running up those stairs? Thats why Im saying he didn't articulate the facts in justifying the stop, and failed to keep him from running up those stairs.”

What made Flaven want to stop Martinez from running up the stairs? Maybe he was a control freak who can’t stand it when people don’t do what he demands all the time. And so he loses his self-control and starts swearing and threatening people. Maybe. I don’t know. In any case, his actions were judged to be unjustified. If what you’re arguing is that he’s just too dumb to be able to explain his inchoate sense of wrongness about Martinez in plain English, then maybe you should argue he’s too dumb to do his job.

On to hypotheticals:

What if someone was in that house being held hostage? There was a call for a break wasn't there? Next time maybe the cops should just ignore people on the street unless they have a perfect description from callers. Criminals would love that.

What if someone in that house was actually harmed by Flaven? What if he went through with his illegal threat to kick in the fucking door and it hit a child playing in the atrium and killed him? Next time Flaven should not act like a thug. Civilians would love that.

And more moral equivalencies. One wonders how threatened my argument must make you feel for you to go ad hominem in this fashion:

And if you are really afraid of cops breaking down your door, then you have to start changing your attitude or lifestyle, because that rarely happens to innocent people. Id still be more afraid of the people who have committed the 10,000 or so property, robbery, or assault crimes that have been committed so far this year.

Rarely isn’t good enough for me. Maybe you should tell Kathryn Johnston not to be afraid. Oh, wait, you can’t, because that 92-year old woman was murdered by criminal cops in her own home.

Or maybe you should tell that to Dymond Milburn. You still can, because the criminal cops didn’t kill her. They just beat the living shit out of that 12-year old girl in her front yard… and then they arrested her for it.

If you’d like a little moral equivalence for your insinuations, how about if I tell you maybe you should leave your gun at the station next time you go out, because if you are not a child-molester or a murderer you shouldn’t have to worry about people not complying with your requests? Pete Nice, maybe you should change your lifestyle. Because if you get a bullet in the neck while you’re on duty, it’s probably because you deserve it.

Ah, no, but I wouldn’t say that. Why not? Because I’m not a Neanderthal. I don’t think that all cops are bad people, just some of them. You’re probably a nice person who doesn’t deserve to have your morality questioned in that fashion… that is, nice when you’re not doing it to someone else.

If you end up taking a bullet in the neck, I won’t think it’s because you’re a bad guy. I’ll think it’s because the fellow who shot you is a bad guy. Likewise, if a cop breaks down my door, it’ll be because he’s a bad guy.

And no, rarely isn’t good enough for me. Even a good locked front door isn’t enough for me. I need good judges, too, and a security camera doesn’t hurt.

I don’t know if a higher proportion of cops are criminals as compared to civilians, but I’ll give you-all the benefit of the doubt and say it’s even, despite how much easier it is to get away with crime when you’re a cop. But if a cop is on my front porch, it’s a more worrisome event than if another stranger is. A random stranger is less likely to be armed, and less likely to be belligerent. I can use physical force to keep a random stranger out of my house, but a cop can just bust in and say he though my ficus was a pot plant, or any old shit. He won’t even get in trouble if he beats me up, because he can make up a reason for that too. A cop is more likely to kill me for no reason than a civilian is, because he’s more likely to get away with it. He can just plant some pot in my house and say I was a drug dealer. Or he can say I had an underlying heart condition and was resisting arrest. He can say whatever he wants, and unless the evidence to the contrary is overwhelming, he’ll get away with it (nb: the punks who killed Ms. Johnston aren't getting away with it, but they also aren't getting nearly the time they would for a similar murder if they weren't cops).

Yeah, I know the cops in my neighborhood, and they seem to be good cops. I make sure to meet them and talk nice to them so that they’ll put me in the “good citizen” category rather than the “bad guy” category in their minds, in case they find themselves on my porch by mistake. And if they needed help with something, I'd help them, just like I'd help any neighbor. But even if they seem nice, I wouldn’t let them into my house. If a cop really wants to talk to me without a locked door between us, then the locked door can be behind us, along with the security camera.

up
Voting closed 0

First off, my whole post was erased when I clicked on that link to Kaythryn Johnson, so Ill just do a short one. But it's clear that you want to get some sort of rise out of me, which you won't get, as just by you thinking Flaven and Martinez both committed crimes when you don't know about good faith excpetions to many criminal procedural issues, and Id like you to at least name the chapetr and section of one crime that Flaven committed.

I don’t know if a higher proportion of cops are criminals as compared to civilians, but I’ll give you-all the benefit of the doubt and say it’s even

You gotta be fucking kidding me with that one right? You don't sound that dumb. EDIT: sorry, I take that back. I see what your saying. The only problem with your logic there is that cops respond to criminal acts all the time while "civilians" encounter cops or criminals on a less frequent basis. So its not about percentages in regards to that one.

If you are really worried about anyone on your porch by mistake, you should see a doctor. I am not that worried about getting shot in the neck, as reality will show you that there really aren't a lot of cop shootings compared to regular shootings. So I really can't fall in your trap there either. I know I won't deserve it, becuase I know what I do is right, and anyone can make a mistake, but I like to pride myself and train my self so those mistakes are kept to a miminum.

And if I do get shot in the neck, chances are it could be a bad guy, or it could be another cop that mistook me for someone else in a building, or it could be because someone made a mistake on the warrant and the address was home of someone that legally had a gun. Of course Im more worried about getting shot by the bad guy, becuase I have less control over that one, and its a situation that will be more likely to happen.

As for the two examples of people killed by police, I could show you a hundred better examples of police brutality. And of course I could show you a million examples of human brutality that doesn't involve the police.

All I can say is that you or anyone else shouldn't be worried about the police on your front porch unless you have something to hide, or if the police make a mistake. But you can't control the police making a mistake. Just because you saw the Rodney King video, or the video of the BART police shooting an unarmed handcuffed individual, it doesnt mean you will be safer by running from the police at every chance you get, and this motion by the judge certainly doesn't make you safer, because it doesn't change the way these cops thought or will thought in the future.

And don't forget that Flaven was right in thinking something was "nervous" about Martinez.

up
Voting closed 0

"If a brother in blue found him suspicious, he is ipso facto a bad guy… and a cop can do whatever the fuck he wants to him. And if a cop wants to lie or break the law in his pursuit of the “bad guy,” then another cop, if he is also suffering from Neanderthal cop thinking, will immediately lie to back him up. Because they’re the good guys, right?

You aren't fogetting the fact that this man did have an illegal gun are you? If the cop wanted to make something up, he simply could have lied and said that Martinez did grab his waistband as if he was trying to hold something. The cops didn't lie here, they told the truth about something that they found suspucious.

I think it was good police work that they were able to find someone suspucious that actually had a gun.

up
Voting closed 0

please just call each other.

up
Voting closed 0

Im not sure if hes being serious, sarcastic, or an asshole.

I was trying to be sarcastic and an asshole in my first post, and I think it kind of got out of hand as the posts have gone on.

up
Voting closed 0

we both achieved our goals here, so I'm willing to call this a draw.

up
Voting closed 0

I understand that cops necessarily have to use their intuition and judgment constantly. I don't think it's always cut&dried where they need to draw lines, as they balance their special powers and restrictions.

It's great that we have the courts as a check on mistakes and abuses. Though, even when a question goes to a judge, there's still a subjective component to interpretation, and different judges might call it differently.

I'm not commenting on this case in particular; I haven't read it.

up
Voting closed 0

Fantastic point. I couldn't have said it better.

up
Voting closed 0

I'm all broke up about that man's rights.

up
Voting closed 0

"Her discussion contained no reference to the authority or reasoning of Dora."

Giving authority to someone with a talking backpack? That's exactly what's wrong with this country.

http://1smootshort.blogspot.com

up
Voting closed 0