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Exam kindergartens?

New York's public-school system now has exam kindergartens. Boston's doesn't. Further proof, mayoral candidate Kevin McCrea says, of how "Boston is so set in its ways, and afraid to try new things to make excellence for our kids a priority."

Or further proof that New York is home to some of the most neurotic, self-absorbed over-achievers on the planet, who somehow convinced the school department to provide special public schools for their special snowflakes. Or have I missed something and there really is a way to tell which 4-year-olds are destined to become masters of the universe?

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Hi Adam,

If you read the NY Times article I link to you will see that they have already had exam schools for some time. Also that the Mayor is trying to equalize access to them.

As you know I'm for eventually eliminating the busing program in the City and the first step in that is providing good schools in every neighborhood.

I agree with your inference that 4 years old is a bit early to start separating kids, and you can see from the numbers in the article that (surprise, surprise) the kids from the rich neighborhoods get into the "gifted" programs. I am against this sort of class dividing.

The point of my post, which I should have been clearer about, is that NYC seems to be more consistently trying to do things to promote excellence in schools. It could be a 'grass is greener' type of situation except when I see apples to apples comparisons of our science and math exam school and the one in NYC. As one who has hired and talks to kids from the O'Bryant, I feel that we are not in the same league as the NYC school. With all the great universities here, we should have something equally as good, if not better.

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Sure, innovation is good - and even the BTU is getting into the act now, with that pilot school for Roslindale kids.

As a product of the NYC school system myself, one big difference I see is that you don't have to go to an exam school there to get a good education. Boston schools are better than they used to be, but there's still too much pressure on kids (and their parents) to get into an exam school (ask me about it - next year is exam test year for us, and we have to be concerned with spring grades this year). So I'll applaud any move to improve the "regular" schools.

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A two seat Porsche is excellent, no question - except when you need to carry a lot of furniture or people or both.

That is a big issue - is an "excellent" school one that churns out people who get into college, whether or not that meets their goals in life? Regardless of the need for tradespeople, if being a trades person would make said students happier?

How do we define excellence? Ability of the student to eventually pursue and meet their own goals? Graduates with satisfactory abilities to find their own careers that society needs? Or is "excellence" just the fulfillment of some absurd quota for 4 year college admissions regardless of what society or the student want or need, because this is vitally necessary for administrators to pat themselves on the back?

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I'm going to chime in and say that what I would consider to be an "excellent" school is one that has teachers and staff who have the ability to motivate the students, not teach to the lowest common denominator, but also not expect each student to be on the AP track by sophomore year of high school. An excellent school nurtures its students in whatever subject or field in which they happen to excel or be passionate about - whether physics, carpentry, art, etc. The biggest problem in education is the ridiculous focus on numbers, statistics, advanced/honors scores, etc. It completely detracts from learning, whether for trade or college.

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exactly how are you qualifying those apples, kevin? macintoshes aren't cortlands.

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Regarding that apples to apples comparison. When I went to Boston Tech - which became O'Bryant - it was the second-tier exam school to Boston Latin, and not a math and science school. The curriculum may have changed somewhat over the years, but I suspect that things haven't changed that much. And since Boston is a teenie-tiny city compared to NYC, there are only so many math-philic students in the system, and many of the cream of the crop probably goes to Latin or Latin Academy. Point being, I suspect you can only compare O'Bryant to the Bronx school regarding intentions, not results.

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You want to improve schools? Cut out the parents. I say this as somebody who attended high school in a very politically active community: 90% of "concerned parents" are usually just blowhards who want to waste the time of the school board and/or ram their political agenda down everyone's throat. It's kind of amazing how many otherwise intelligent people think they're smarter and more knowledgeable about how children should be taught than a teacher with a M.Ed and decades of experience.

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Schools run a bit differently here than in the suburban towns that your description fits to a T. Here, the problem is sometimes not enough parental involvement.

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OMG so if your kid does not somehow excel in exam taking by the age of 4 they are off the gifted program charts for the rest of their lives. How could they ever get back on track if other kids are already on this accelerated track? Also is it a good thing we are seperating the "gifted" kids before they can touch ground with the common children? Has the latest financial meltdown and the massive cluster#$%^ leading up to it taught us nothing? I think certain people already spend way too much segregated from the rest of the population, and honestly have no clue how the rest of the world lives. There is a line due to class, but their is also an "IQ" line where the very smart are all shuttled off to Harvard and Yale, and before that Andover and Exeter. Ever notice how it is these children that become the "masters of the universe" who have no concept how the world really works. Who do not understand how someone making 20,000 a year can not afford 400,000 house. So we want to make this worse, by marking the line at around the age of 4. Does that seem like a smart thing to do? These kids will grow up their whole lives not understanding that their are people who are not as smart as they are in this world, is that a good thing?

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Just not kindergarten. That's about the transition from little-kidhood to school learnin'. Leave them be! But what do I know? I come from a long line of regular public-school kids.

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A good teacher can provide enrichment for the kids who move through the curriculum faster than other kids, while still working closely with those who lag and keeping the mid range busy. My kids had kindergarten teachers who were great at this in their own style ... my older boy's teacher even stopped by when the younger one had his pre-K evaluation just to watch the fun (he knew that my younger guy was already reading when my older guy finished kindergarten ...). While the district made noises about putting younger guy up a grade (he missed the age deadline by three weeks)in order to deal with an unexpectedly large number of kindergarten students, he has done just fine in classrooms of kids of mixed ability because the teachers have been able to accommodate the range.

If they spent more time with the teachers and supported them in learning to handle a range of abilities, they wouldn't need special schools for young kids. Ditto for flexible curricula. Separating them out is plain lazy - worse yet, it doesn't serve the kids who catch on later because of ESL issues and the like. Keeping class sizes down helps, but a combination of teacher support and accountability is more appropriate than early tracking.

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In Kindergarten, my principal didn't feel that I was able to move to the first grade early based on some sort of preliminary screening observation/testing. My parents had him test me for the grade advancement anyways. I passed. He then put me in the lowest level of education for the first grade. My teacher told my parents I was wasting my time. They had the principal on the phone again and I was moved into the grade 1-2 split class (honors first grade, lower second grade).

For the remainder of my education (in public schools), I excelled in each grade (ok, my handwriting grades perpetually sucked). I graduated with the highest certificate the school system offered on top of my diploma and #9 in a class of 444 (my 4th year of Band didn't allow me to take as many AP classes as the top 8 and the level of class weighted the GPA).

So, I was very lucky that at such an early point in my education, my teachers and parents recognized something that the principal and the earliest testing did not. Any testing at ages 4-6 has to be taken with a grain of salt. I believe it would be one more example of "teaching to the test" that would occur, further reducing our educational system to a series of codified answer sheets and lacking the problem solving and logical thinking aptitudes that these tests often ignore.

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I completely agree. Testing is completely arbitrary and used solely for statistical purposes, which really give no indication of learning beyond rote memorization. When I was a sophomore in high school, my entire year had to take a "10th grade competency exam," featuring no math more advanced than elementary school math and reading comprehension on about a sixth grade level. Really, it was a completely contrived test in order to make stats look good for more government funding.

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