So, you would prefer to deal with an observant Jew for ethics reasons. I guess I'll pick the low-hanging fruit.......

What's one of the thinnest books ever published?
"Jewish Business Ethics"

Ba-da-bump

I keed, I keed!

The legal structure is set up with protections, contracts, etc.

I realize that those with little contact with "kithkin" might not understand what that "Christian" question means. It isn't about comfort with a transaction that is bounded by legal stipulations. It is about exclusion and inclusion, and I think the real estate guy was spot-on in his reaction.

I don't know everything about you Suldog, but based on things you've said yourself, I think that you don't belong to any largely oppressed groups. In other words, I don't think there's anything about you where during a good percentage of interactions, you'd come away from them wondering whether you were judged based on what actually happened, or whether someone's prejudices came into play.

If you DID belong to a group where you were discriminated against on a daily basis, I'm thinking you'd have a different perspective in terms of wanting to just shrug and walk away from times when people say they don't want you just because, well, they don't want you. In terms of when I've encountered people who just don't like me and who've gone far enough to explain that it's because I'm annoying or stupid or whatever, then yeah, I don't want to work for that person or be friends with that person either.

But in terms of things like when I applied for a job and then later heard through the grapevine that the director was really impressed and would have hired me except that she couldn't get past how it was really unprofessional for me to come to an interview "all dressed down like that" (in other words, I didn't have makeup or a purse or sparkly jewelry like she thinks all female-chromosomed people should wear, because I'm a butchish dyke and that just isn't who I am, but I was wearing neat well-kempt professional attire). Yes, I did actually want that job, and I know that most of the people there don't perpetuate homophobia in the same way this person does. In this instance, I at least ended up hearing from someone that I didn't get the job because of homophobia; it's even worse to just know that you don't have as easy of a time being accepted in a largely straight world, and to be surrounded by language and behavior all the time that exclude your type. You know, like, when I've worked for GLBT-focused organizations and had very few clients ask to work with someone else, and then going to work for organizations that aren't specifically GLBT programs and have plenty of people suddenly stop showing up for appointments right after the day when they asked who the picture of my family on my desk was. Or the parent who asked if I was married and had kids, then we talked a little about my family, then she's suddenly calling our director and saying she needs a new therapist for her kids because I have no idea how to treat children. And when the person hasn't come right out and said they're firing me because they're homophobic, it doesn't occur to most bosses either; they just notice that someone complained.

This job I applied for wasn't at some backwards organization whose mission was to discriminate against queers -- I obviously wouldn't want to work at such a place. But put yourself in my shoes a bit; every time I apply for a job, I'm gonna look at their mission statements and personnel policies and ask about extracurricular things and keep my eyes peeled during the tour to see how queer-friendly the place seems. Suldog, if my assumptions are right, you don't have to take the time every time you meet someone new to see what their attitudes are toward your kind of people. This is something I have to do with everyone. I listen to see if they're using inclusive or exclusive language, then once I mention who's in my family, I wait and see whether their attitudes toward me suddenly change.

Do you see why you and I might have different concepts in terms of sorting out whether people like us and how we're going to respond? I really like you and think you're a good person, and I'm hoping that my explanation helps you to see why our ideas on this subject might differ so much. When you say that your view on such things is "screw them; I wouldn't want to be a part of that anyway," there's a lot of privilege behind that attitude. Some of us can't just take that easy road out, because then where are we supposed to live or work or worship or socialize? We run into people who don't like our kind pretty much everywhere.

http://1smootshort.blogspot.com

Yeah, I didn't mean outright holy-shit-illegal homophobia. I'm not talking about stuff like those organizations that have an official policy of not hiring GLBT folk.

I'm talking about institutionalized homophobia, like providers doing an intake and using language with a client where they assume that the person has an opposite-sex partner rather than using inclusive language. Or the agency CEO who unilaterally took away domestic partner benefits as soon as SSM was passed, not realizing that many people with DP benefits can't marry because they or a spouse is in the military, or works for a religious organization that has the legal right to fire anyone who they find out enters into a SSM, or is an international couple where the foreign citizen could be forbidden from visiting home. This CEO would have known these things had said CEO asked someone familiar with GLBT issues, or even done a quick google search and read things like GLAD's position paper explaining that many SS couples can't marry. Knowing CEO as I do, CEO surely didn't do this out of hatred, but it was an action that led to discrimination against GLBT employees. Oh, I've also had well-meaning self-professed-liberal supervisors tell me when I had clients complain about me (for being queer) that the easy way to avoid that is to be closeted (this has been while working in environments where it was considered appropriate to have pictures of your family on your desk and to chat with clients about what you did this weekend and such), and then really not GET IT when I pointed out to them that I've heard them mention their spouses and their organizational memberships and whatnot to clients, so why wouldn't I do the same?

The only places I've worked where these mistakes rarely get made are GLBT-specific organizations, where staff are all either queer or else very strongly committed to being an ally and trying really hard not to add to homophobia. I know many many straight people who are actively anti-homophobic, but I've not yet encountered a workplace aside from GLBT-specific agencies where I've not experienced any homophobia. People don't need to be GLBT themselves to be really on top of being an ally, but I've found that unless the culture at a plece is specifically targeted at being GLBT-friendly, homophobia happens.

...consider Catholics Christian -- and the Catholic Church (as documented by its current Catechism) considers Protestants Christians (despite continuing to assert that the Catholic Church is the one "true" religion). Protestants duly baptized in their own religion (with documentation to show this) are not re-baptized as Catholics.