Fighting the scourge of man-sitting on the T
By adamg - 7/11/09 - 8:31 am
The AboutWomen Project in Cambridge is tired of male pigs taking up three seats on the subway with their gaping-wide legs and wants Dan Grabausakas to do something about it: Start adding to those handcapped/elderly seat stickers with new stickers telling men to shut their damn legs:
... Of course, there are many other discourteous behaviors, like occupying additional seats with your belongings, but the particular posture depicted on our button is the most commonly complained about offense found in our survey of T- passengers. ...
Comments
Massholes of the T?!
Right on. Talk about Massholes of the T!
These guys are also Most Likely Candidates to take the elderly/disabled seat (plus the one next to it) and not give it up even when someone on crutches, or obviously pregnant/holding an infant, or obviously quite up in years enters the car.
Well..
It's easy to complain about "man-sitting" if you don't have balls. Maybe you ought to quit bumping people with your boobs?
i know right
or your giant purse
Other options
If you feel like your balls get itchy without a breeze, you might try a little tinactin instead.
are you kidding me?
I thought this was a joke. I can't believe they actually want signs on the subway for that. Stop your whining and learn how to live in the city like the rest of us.
Are you serious? What about
Are you serious? What about the fat woman who sit down, take up two seats, and rolls spill over onto the person next to them. That is so vile. If your ass can't fit in one seat then stand the f up. I am so sick of these vile pigs sitting next to me in the morning.
I think people who are that
I think people who are that fat qualify as "disabled," if you think about it. I mean I'm pretty fat (250 pounds, 5'10) and I can easily fit into one seat, so someone who spills over into two seats is clearly rather morbidly obese, and such a person could likely have trouble standing on a train for tens of minutes with many starts and stops. Just because it's a disability which is sorta their fault doesn't make it any less of a disability.
Fat is not a Disability.
Sorry, but a disability is something that afflicts you that you can't change.
Being fat / obese is a lifestyle choice with the responsibilities that come with it, not an affliction. You can choose to slim down, and become more healthy.
Exercise and calorie counting is hard, and not everyone wants to or enjoys to do it. But because changing from sedentary lifestyle "is hard" is not an excuse.
And for the very few medial excuses there are, there's other options. We can treat thyroid problems, and genetics just means you have to work harder.
It;s a battle of will power, so don't give be any damn excuses and don;t you dare say it's a condition that can't be death with or changed through simple, but mentally tough means.
Whats next, calling drug addiction a disability?
Well there is a difference
Well there is a difference between a big person who takes up more then one seat and a smaller person who lounges out and takes up three seats. While being big is something that can be fixed in the long term the fact of the matter is they are big right now and there is nothing they can do RIGHT NOW to fix it. In comparison someone who spreads and lounges out on a seat can just bring their legs in or take their arms off the seat next to them that is an immediate result.
Well, I'm sick of vile filth like you.
Honestly, you're not one to be talking about "vile pigs". I've seen your type. You're the one who throws a fit when someone who isn't skinny sits down on the T. Well, I'm fat. I also fit into a seat. I've checked. I keep checking, because I often run into morons like yourself who huff and snort at having to sit next to me because it means YOU actually have to keep your worthless butt in your own seat instead of spreading yourself out due to some evident inability to contain your obnoxiousness. Again, I fit into a seat. I fit, because I try to fit. Maybe if every thin moron like yourself spent more time doing the same instead of spitting vapid venom at some fat woman taking up space, there would be more room on the trains.
Right On!
I can't begin to count the times that I have pointed out that I am the one who is COMPLETELY in my seat and the name-caller is the one who cannot seem to fit his privilege into his.
I want the old benches back, damnit. This would solve any number of problems with winter coats and broad shoulders and pregnant hips and the like.
ever heard of "consciousness raising"???
I'm kinda stunned by the hostility to a suggestion that has a clever tongue-in-cheek message to it. Gotta love it when people foam at the mouth at the mere suggestion of exercising simple courtesy.
I wouldn't say the behavior is rampant, but often enough you walk into a subway car at a crowded time and see one of these assholes marking his territory, with legs wide apart and arms stretching over to the adjacent seats, and not bothering to recognize that it's filling up with people.
Absolutely, "stop your whining and learn how to live in the city like the rest of us."
The way to solve this is not
The way to solve this is not with a sticker but with verbal and physical communication.
If someone is taking up too much room, I just say "excuse me" while using body language to prompt that I will be sitting down in the should be vacant seat. I even suggest starting to sit down as if you are going to land on his leg, accompanied by the request.
This almost always works, and if it doesn't, then it's time to get mad.
Exactly, Seth. It is nice
Exactly, Seth.
It is nice to see the ladies who lunch have moved beyond targeting "urban youth" in the middle of the city though ... well. Sort of.
This is right on. I HATE
This is right on. I HATE the guys who sit like that and pretend their balls are so big they can't close their legs. Let me tell you, they can.
Whit
Thank you for clarifying this!
I really began to believe that these guys couldn't actually close their legs even if they really, really wanted to. And by the way, I HAVE asked guys to sit 'smaller' and they have GLARED at me. I'm not doing THAT again.
They want you to think they're...
...rugged and virile cowboys, bow-legged from all that horse-riding.
Nope, not second-class citizens who ride the T rather than drive. Cowboys, you see. Did we mention virile?
(Equal opportunity: don't get me started on the cowgirls. Ain't they done never heard'a no side-saddle?)
Solution That Will Probably Work
As seen in the photo below, some cars on The Underground in London have clearly-delineated individual seats. Putting aside the pleasant interior, which would last about three hours in Boston, why not partition the seats as clearly as these? Problem solved, without resorting to gender-bashing of any sort.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
Most slouchers have thin
Most slouchers have thin legs, they would slide right under the arms. Plus I can imagine people using the arm as support as they lean back sideways drapping their legs over onto the second seat.
These seats would only solve the "problem" of your larger neighbor crossing onto your seat.
Then Modify The Design
Put the dividers up higher to discourage leg draping. Or put them lower to discourage sliding under them. Or put a solid panel between seats. The basic idea, of marking what is obviously a one-person area (with the implicit understanding that you are expected not to take up more space than that within the area) should work in most instances and doesn't have to rely on basic goodwill towards your fellow passenger.
Suldog
http://jimsuldog.blogspot.com
Note also ...
That the seats appear to be wide enough that a typical sized person in a heavy winter coat does not have to sit too tightly between the armrests.
That's my biggest issue with the T: typical male shoulders and size 12 women's hips + winter coat = tight fit. Not large people - typical people. Same thing with the overhead bars before they added the straps - who the hell decides these things and why the hell don't they look at some percentiles of size in the population?
Shut-ya-legs
I agree, but when I use to catch the train, males on 2 seaters STILL had their legs spread 6 feet wide even AFTER I sat down.
No attempt to share the space. If men didn't have an issue/personal love story with their scrotums, we wouldn't have to go through this drivel.
I went looking for posts about this - and wasn't even sure if the balls sit at the front or hang between the legs? I think they sit at the front?
Need to do more research, but the legs can be moved closer together, easily.
Male teenagers? THAT
Male teenagers? THAT SLOUCH?! Clearly this is a deep threat to us all!
To those outraged by the sticker:
Fox 25 News must be your favorite news program... if you're this bent out of shape over a sticker reminding people on the T to close their legs so others can sit!
Mandatory Gender Equity Check
Is their complaint with people who, in various ways, voluntarily (not by virtue of sheer size) take up more than one seat? If so, perhaps this "AboutWomen" group should make sure that their perception of the problem is not skewed by any kind of sexist bias. I've certainly seen men spread out, but I see women do it too. And women overall do seem much more prone to take up extra seats with their belongings, rather than holding things on their lap or putting on the floor.
Why is an AboutWomen group going around complaining (and petitioning the MBTA?!) about stereotypical male behaviors while ignoring real female ones in the same context supposed to be cute? (Nice graphic design with the slash through his crotch, as if saying no to male-ness altogether, which is something of which a designer would be very conscious. Presumably the symbolism is not lost on many others.)
Would we still think it's cute if a ManStuff group started printing up buttons and petitioning quasi-governmental agencies about stereotypical boorish or offensive female behaviors? We could think of a few such behaviors, and verbalizing and graphically depicting some of them in a way that we thought was cute would be as offensive as the behavior itself.
Assertiveness Training
Just say "excuse me - I'm taking this seat" and sit down.
If the jerk you bump out of the way calls you a fat bitch, laugh in his face and say "gee, I'm fat ... but you can't manage to fit in one seat. right." If they act up more, point to the line down the middle of the seat, show them which side they are supposed to be on, and go about your business.
Nothing schools a jerk who can't stand a woman taking up any space or thinks he is entitled to twice the space that he is like insisting on your right to occupy it.
This works much better when there are a bunch of teen boys around who consider the exchange to be entertainment, and proceed to heckle and mock the brositter mercilessly.
As for petitioning the MBTA, well, how about demanding seats that fit people wearing heavy coats and accomodate the typical male shoulders and female hip size ranges? How about going back to a bench system like the old red-line cars had - no seats means you get the room you need.
no amazonian women
While wer'e at it why dont we get stickers that say "NO Amazonian Women" Al Bundy would like that
Correct term is bro-sitting?
That's what Collin writes.
tell them to shove it
I hope the mbta guy who gets this letter laughs and tells these man hating feminazis to go shove it
..and I'm a man. It's
..and I'm a man. It's simple courtesy. It takes no effort to pull your legs together. I'm 6'4", so I'm pretty conscious about trying to take up as little space as possible with my legs...but it never fails that some 5'6" leprechaun feels the need to spread his pasty stubby shanks out and rub knees with me. At least buy me a drink first, a-hole.
And while we're on the subject of T etiquette...take off the frigging backpack.
it perplexes me why kids
it perplexes me why kids keep their backpacks on while riding. they look heavy and they get in everyones way. they also fucking love to block the exit with them and my clumsy ass has been known to trip into them and introduce their face to the pole. ooops.
Sure...
...and it can go right next to the sticker that says "Why Does Your Purse Deserve Its Own Fucking Seat?"
Joke
I'm pretty sure this whole thing is a joke. If someone has a problem on the T, there's already a remedy for that - the whole "See Something, Say Something" campaign. I can't imagine there's too many problems on the T that a simple, "excuse me..." wouldn't fix.
Of course, if it's not a joke...some people evidently have too much time on their hands.
Stickers for the T?
Signs for 128.
(Goose/Gander, etc.)
What about male driving?
Lessee, shaving, tweezing while texting - been there, seen that.
You've seen men tweezing
You've seen men tweezing while driving?
Yep
Nose hair, using the rear view mirror. Ugh.
Separating mascara'd lashes
Separating mascara'd lashes with a safety pin.
This is a fight you can't win. Better to just let it go.
See Something, Say Something
"Hello? Transit Police? ... Yeah, there is a suspicious person with a suspicious oversized Louis Vuitton handbag suspiciously taking up an extra seat in car 1234. ... A large beard? Uh, no, maybe a slight moustache, I guess. ... Forcibly removed for questioning at the next stop? Thank you very much, officer! We can't be too careful, I always say! ... OK, bye, now!"
They would love NYC
"Subway Rider Offers To Help Man Put Penis Back Into Pants"
http://gawker.com/5307956/subway-rider-offers-to-help-man-put-penis-back-into-pants
(for some reason the original craigslist post is flagged)
They need to come up with
They need to come up with another name for this, I thought it meant men can not site on the train. Without any additional wording people are going to think it literally is aimed at all men even those who close their legs.
Maybe it's like babysitting?
Or perhaps they mean no sitting upon men's laps?
Or perhaps they mean no sitting in a wide-stance manner, which they have termed "man-sitting," as some kind of sexist generalization, and which has somehow fallen within the scope of a group declaring itself the "AboutWomen Project," whose charter no doubt includes a phrase such as "...promoting the efficient utilization of mass-transit seating..." and not anything like "...as Nth-generation 'feminists' who don't know what the hell we're doing, we shall find innocuous excuses to complain about men while hoping that everyone will think in a condescending, sexist way that such behavior of ours is cute. We *go*, girls!"
Easy
Picture of Larry Craig with a slash through it.
The name
AboutWomen?
I keep thinking it's a spin off of the Human Fund.
I really really think...
...they're trying to raise a valid concern about courtesy with a bit of humor. Nothing more than that.
And yes, posters who mention the handbags and packages on seats of crowded trains also make a good point.
The courtesies can be quite simple:
In a relatively empty train, we can sprawl & spread to our hearts' content.
If it's crowded, try not to take up more than a seat.
If it's all legit...
...then they shouldn't have called themselves the "AboutWomen Project" for the purpose. Surely they have some awareness of the history and state of feminism.
Yes, it is a very sexist
Yes, it is a very sexist statement for a group with a name that makes me think that they would freak out if some Nomam group tried to post the same type of poster aimed at the whole female gender.
Except for the reason men
Except for the reason men sit like that is sexist- male privilege- men feel entitled to take up space. It's also realllly gross to have to sit next to some dude who is rubbing legs with me. That happened this morning on the train. Little guy, no reason he couldn't fit into his seat, but I guess he has SUCH HUGE BALLS that he had to keep his legs completely spread apart for the whole ride. Nice. I notice that men don't do that to other men, only to women.
And sure, women do stuff too- but it is not out of power and privilege, like it is for men. Totally different story. Just as annoying I'm sure. But really, women should not have to deal with men groping them on the subway- which is what they are doing when they choose to spread their legs so far apart that they are rubbing and rubbing and rubbing my leg.
And since I'm "fat" I worry about saying anything, because most of these loser dudes will probably say something about my fat ass, which I am extremely careful about. If I can't fit, I don't sit- all there is too it. Why can't everyone be that courteous?
sit on those man legs
Most of the time, I would ignore it, but when I was in a bad mood and really wanted to sit, I would just move in front of the seat with a 'leg' in it, and start to sit my 6'4 240 pound frame down on the leg... the offender would usually move it pretty quick, and give me a hard time, but I would just ignore them with my headphones on, and they would usually get up and move elsewhere on the train. funny shit.. such posuers, most of them..
-- Chex
How do I join the fight?
I fully support this cause! How can I help? Seriously!!!!!!!!
who woulda thunk...
...that this post would provoke so many comments!!! :)
T behavior
This posture is more prevalent on some lines than others, and I don't imagine it will ever disappear. I don't worry about it when there are seats available; but when I'm struggling with bags and recuperating from knee surgery, instead of suffering silently or aggressively, I have learned to pick some young guy (if almost always some young girl hasn't already offered) to ask politely for his seat with a mumbled explanation of why I need it. It took me some time to learn and be comfortable with this behavior, but I recommend it over getting stressed out or "sort of" gently bumping with bags and otherwise annoying the person whose seat I want and feel "entitled" to, given "my" (choose one) baby bump, cane, crutch, gray hair, whatever.
Yes speaking as a young man
Yes speaking as a young man this makes sense. While the man sitting is an issue there is also the issue of people needing a seat and not getting it. If you want the seat and the person looks reasonable please ask us. While some people are obviously in need of a seat others may not look so obvious. Sometimes just asking nicely will get you what you want. Most people are nicer then we all get credit for.
ESPECIALLY if your pregnant. While your baby bump may seem huge to you and your friends many guys will not notice unless it is very obvious. Girls are much better at picking out expanded stomachs and other body parts of other girls then guys are.
baby bumps not always easy...
Okay ladies, or more enlightened guys, are there magic signs for detecting baby bumps that elude clueless folks like me?
I can tell the obvious ones (i.e., Twiggy with a beer belly), and certainly late termers, but otherwise....