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Boston to propose bike lanes on Comm. Ave. from Kenmore to Public Garden
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Comments
Bike lanes won't change much
Bike lanes won't change much on Comm. Ave. Cyclists often ride through the Comm. Ave. mall or on the wide sidewalks or on the street itself. Since there are a couple of options for cyclists, I'm not sure how bike lanes would improve safety. The money might be better spent on bike lanes in other parts of the city.
Why not have one way bike
Why not have one way bike lanes on Boylston and Beacon from Kenmore and one circling the common/public garden?
I know it might not be as convenient, but I do think it would be safer and easier to implement.
Not a bad idea, but...
Good to think out of the box on this. Why is Commonwealth any better than Beacon, etc? My unscientific opinion is that Marlborough (eastbound) and Commonwealth (westbound) are the safest streets between Mass Ave. and the Public Garden. Beacon is a litle bit of a speedway (replete with timed lights, no?), and Boylston is generally a trafficky mess.
Marlborough is a one-way
Marlborough is a one-way street and is too narrow for a bike lane. Having cyclists speeding down Marlborough wouldn't be terribly safe for pedestrians, many of whom are elderly on that street.
But who are young
when on every other street.
(Thank you, I'll be here all week).
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http://1smootshort.blogspot.com
Umm..
Cars speeding down Marlborough are better? Looking at Marlborough street in Google street view, it looks wide enough for a bike lane to me. The narrowed lane would still be plenty for a car, and would encourage cars to slow down a bit too. Compare it with Willow Ave in Somerville, which is a little bit narrower, and also one way, but now has a bike lane.
Personally I use Marlborough when biking East in the Back Bay.
Marlborough is a two lane
Marlborough is a two lane street which is often narrowed to a single lane thanks to vehicles double-parking on either side. Cars don't speed down Marlborough because on most blocks there is a stop sign. If they don't stop, they at least slow to a crawl. Cyclists, as I have daily observed, do not stop at the stop signs and generally zip down the street. If you believe Marlborough Street is unsafe to bike down since it doesn't have bike lanes, then why do you use it?
Valid point, I didn't think
Valid point, I didn't think about the double parked cars. I guess I wouldn't generally consider bikes to be more of a threat than cars.. I don't feel Marlborough is unsafe, it feels perfectly fine to me with our without bike lanes. I'm just saying I prefer it to Comm ave.
Not needed
I was happy to see the bike lane on comm ave from kenmore to bu bridge. I used to have people try to run me off the road there. It isn't needed in back bay. I ride this stretch all the time and just take the right lane. I usually don't have any problems. Sometimes you have to go around double parked trucks and cars. If there was a bike lane there, I would still have to take a lane to go around double parking and doors. It would be much better to extend it the other way toward Alston.
Keep up
Half of the discussion here is about how the bike lane is going to be on the left side of the lanes. Nobody double parks or opens car doors on the left side of the road.
I do agree that the bike lane should also be extended at least as far Packard's Corner. Extending it onto Brighton Ave will be harder as there's a lot less road width to steal.
You might be surprised
As a BB doyen - I support the concept as do most of the neighbors I've spoken to - but as with all things the devil is in the details. Here's one example based on a presentation I saw last week:
Comm ave is to be a central bike artery from A/B, Fenway/Kenmore to downtown. Bikers coming from Kenmore will ride on the right side of the road and enter a "bike box" at the traffic light at Charlesgate East. Pretty good so far.
This is where it gets interesting -
There is going to be a "crossover lane" in the middle of the block prior to Mass Ave - so bikes essentially exit the bike box and weave across two to four lanes of traffic to begin riding in a left bike lane that goes in the tunnel under mass ave (where there is often several inches of water or ice and at least one giant pothole at all times - the tunnel is roughly at the water table). Might work if the bikes always stop at a red - a little more challenging if you are trying to get left through active traffic.
Then the bikes remain on the left side all the way up Comm Ave to avoid the car door death zone - at the very least there will be a "learning curve" for cars making a left hand turn onto one ways and remembering to check for bikes on their left - how many of us do this making a right turn even now when bikes are on the right where we might expect them?
Then they get to Arlington Street and the system ends - well if you were a biker and got to Arlington Street and wanted to go to the financial district - where would you go? I'm guessing most would go through the Public Garden (bikes aren't allowed - but many don't care). if you do go right - now we need another crossover to get the bikes wanting to go toward the south end the right side of Arlington (this is actually probably the easiest problem) - and then you have to have a bike lane for the Beacon Hill crowd and another four lane crossover for the South Station crowd to get you to the other side of Boylston.
I hope it happens - it should - but this is not an easy task and we could literally get a couple of people killed trying to get it right and it needs to be considered that possibly we are trying to put the old square peg in a round hole.
What presentation did you
What presentation did you see?
Stevil must attend many
Stevil must attend many presentations!
Stevil does
One of the joys of being active in the community - I average at least 1-2 a week - plus I give some - if you ever want to know why the city's budget is up 50% and our property taxes are up 100% in the last 10 years and can't understand why the city is still broke, I'll be happy to come speak in your community (it has little to do with healthcare which is the pat excuse of our politicians).
squish
Geez - that underpass is narrow enough as it is. How are you going to get a bike lane in there without turning it into a death trap?
choices
They'd have to merge two lanes of traffic into one lane before the ramp down under the bridge
OR
make the right lane a joint bicycle/car lane and illuminate it effectively.
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One lane
The tunnel will now be one lane - as a frequent user it's never crowded so that's not a problem - the other advantage is that when you exit right now the "upper traffic" merges with the right tunnel lane. Going forward the Upper traffic will be the right lane and the tunnel traffic will be the left lane - this is a definite positive - and should be done with or without bike lanes.
Oh - and if anyone drives outbound - they are proposing cutting a lane out somewhere on Comm Ave westbound around Charlesgate or Kenmore to accommodate the outbound bike lane. That gets pretty crowded even without sox games and can have you sitting there for several light cycles on game nights. Again - not a bad idea and maybe more people will ride the T or take bikes which is a good thing - but with Storrow now down to one lane at the Bowker - not sure we can pinch this much capacity out of the system. this needs a little more study.
changing lanes
Steve,
Have you ever made a left turn? In case you haven't, it involves moving from the right lane to the left lane. Nothing about what you just described as a proposed lane shift is any different.
Also, riding next to the center median is inherently safer than riding in the door-zone a la the Columbus Ave bike lane.
cheers.
anon
I try to stay a touch to the right
Politically that is!
when I change lanes on the road I try to surround myself with 3000 pounds of metal and an engine that can do 0-60 in under 8 seconds. I'm not concerned about the cars - it's the bikers I worry about (search on this site under "masshole"). Maybe it will work - but like I said, somebody might also get killed with this little experiment.
As for the median - it's a frequency v. severity issue. A lot of bikers will probably get hurt if someone opens a door in front of them. Probably won't happen very often, but if a car makes a left turn at the right time a biker may end up flattened.
Again - I like the principle - but I've reached a point in life where I've learned that if you have to twist things upside down in a knot to make them work, it's usually not a very good idea. I remain skeptical
The way you describe it
Sounds good. I had a bunch of stuff about how I thought it could really work well for bikes and cars, including lining up the cars for the Mass Ave fork better...but I figured it was already pretty well hashed.
EDIT: Hmm, I meant to trash this post, not submit it. Wierd.
Most bike lanes in NYC are
Most bike lanes in NYC are actually on the left, so I dont see why it wouldnt work here as well. Its safer. Less doors, and the driver is right next to the bike, instead of the bike being hidden by the passenger.
I'm not worried about cars
In some ways I see the sense of the bike on the left - if you pass the person on your left you might see them and be aware that they could be approaching. I'm just thinking - for example I get to Berkeley Street - I'm at the corner and see a traffic jam at Arlington and decide to spin around and go back to Clarendon to cut over to Boylston (a move I've made many times) - I'm so focused on the traffic ahead I forget about the bike and I haven't put my directional on - (my bad) - bam! left turn into approaching bike. Granted I'm not hearing about bikers getting slammed in NY on a regular basis though I'm sure it happens (and as a former NYC biker it wasn't that bad) - so maybe I'm just getting old :-) - let's say cautious and call it even.